Talk:Magnapop/GA1

GA Review

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comment by nominator: I have put a lot of work into this article and it is reasonably complete with citations and media to enhance its presentation. I have asked for feedback on rating and improving the article several times and I feel like it's now up to GA standards or could be easily amended to pass a GA review. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:31, 10 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Generally looks like a decent article (and has inspired me to check out Magnapop who I hadn;t heard of before but sound like they'd be my cup of tea) I have quite a few concerns which I've listed below, in the meantime I'm placing the article on hold.

Reviewer: Cavie78 (talk) 13:19, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): (MoS):
Quite a few concerns with prose are detailed below.
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): (citations to reliable sources): (OR):
Couple of minor concerns with the refs are listed below.
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

General

Some material seems to be unsourced for instance "That project ended in 1984 and Hopper briefly belonged to a band named Holiday, who released their only EP in 1987.", the whole second half of the second paragraph in the 'Formation and self-titled debut (1989–1993)' subsection of history, "These sessions recorded with Brian Paulson would be released as Chase Park on September 4, 2009, through digital distributors by the vanity label The Kraft Records." etc.
Citations should come after punctuation such as a comma or full stop. For example in the sentence "After the group folded the female Stipe and Hopper formed Oh-OK, whose line-up would later include Matthew Sweet[3] and David McNair." the ref should come at the end of the sentence.
Lots of red links for members/past members in the infobox and throughout the article. Are all these people notable enough to have a Wikipedia article? Same goes for some of the record labels in the infobox.
The fair use rationale for the cover of the Homemade Sister demo is incomplete and I'm not sure the use of the cover is justified anyway beyond mere illustration.
There seems to be an awful lot of "They" and "Thems" in the article - some of these should be changed to "the group", "the band" or "Magnapop"
All the print refs need page numbers e.g. Ref 2 ("Linda Hopper on Michael Stipe"), Ref 4 ("Magnapop")

Lead

"The band first achieved recognition in Benelux..." should be the Benelux but I think it would be better if you said "the Benelux countries of Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg..."
"After modest domestic success..." Given that you've just been talking about Europe I think it would be clearer if you said "After modest success in the United States.."
"They returned with a new rhythm section in 2005 on the Daemon Records release Mouthfeel. They have continued to perform..." Would suggest changing the second instance of "They" to "The band" to avoid repetition.

Formation and self-titled debut (1989–1993)

"Hopper—a native of..." You should say "Linda Hopper" here given that you've started a new section and haven't previously mentioned Hopper in the main article.
"In 1989, Morris..." Again use Morris's full name here.
"...a recent transplant to Atlanta..." I think this could be better worded, "recent transplant" doesn't sound very encyclopaedic.
"The two were introduced..." Would better to say "Hopper and Morris were introduced..."
"They ended up recruiting..." "Ended up" is not very encyclopaedic, would suggest changing to something like "They eventually recruited..."
"..after a line from Baby Doll..." Would suggest changing to "after a line from the film Baby Doll" for clarity
It seems odd to link "Rip the Wreck"/"Merry" to an article which only seems to be about "Merry"
"...they were briefly rechristened Swell..." This needs rewording - sounds like someone else gave them the name.
"They finally settled on coining the name Magnapop..." No need for the word "coining" here.
"...of the Dutch Muziekkrant OOR" Would suggest changing to "of the Dutch music magazine Muziekkrant OOR" for clarity
"They proceeded to pass the tape to a promoter in The Netherlands who gave them some club dates as well as a spot at the side stage of the 1991 Rotterdam Festival." It seems as though "they" in this sentence refers to Engelshoven and van Luyn while "them" refers to the band? Needs rewording to clarify.
I don't think Magnapop is a demo album. You call it the band's "self-titled first album" in the next sentence. Although the record contains some original demos it's not a demo itself.
The paragraph that begins "The band's first commercial recording..." seems out of place. You've just talked about the band releasing an EP, demo album and album then go back to talk about the group's first recordings.
"They would establish..." Should be "They established..."
"particularly in Benelux" see comments in 'Lead' section
"...and gotten positive press..." Not very encyclopaedic, would suggest changing to "and received positive press"

Mainstream success (1994–1997)

"The band requested that Sugar bassist..." "Requested" sounds odd - did the band ask Barbe or did they ask their record label if it would be ok to work with Barbe?
"...taking them to Pedernales Recording Studio, in Austin, Texas in August 1993. Hot Boxing was released by Play It Again Sam in Europe..." You should make it more obvious that Hot Boxing was the album the group recorded with Mould.
"Having Priority release the album was a radical departure from the label's earlier emphasis on rap." This sounds odd, would suggest changing to "Releasing an album by Magnapop was a radical departure for Priority who had previously focused on rap records."
"The promotional EP Big Bright Cherry included three tracks from these recording sessions as well as three self-produced songs." Would suggest changing to "The promotional EP Big Bright Cherry was released in 1994 and included three tracks from the Hot Boxing recording sessions as well as three self-produced songs.
"Boston transplant..." Another odd use of the word "transplant".
"Compounding matters further, they were still under contract to not use the name "Magnapop" for seven more years." I'm not sure what you mean here, are you trying to day that they were still under contract so they could not use the name "Magnapop" for seven more years?

Hiatus, reformation, and independent releases (since 1998)

"The band re-formed in 2003..." Would it be better to say "The band officially re-formed in 2003" given that you've stated that they played shows in 2002?
"In The Netherlands, Hopper also performed vocals on R.E.M.'s cover of "Favorite Writer" on June 21 and 22." Needs clarification - did she sing with R.E.M. at two concerts?
I'm not sure that The Kraft Records fits the description of a vanity label - could you just say "the band's own, newly created label, The Kraft Records"?
"Brian Fletcher (2003–2008)" It's not clear what the dates refer to here - his time in Magnapop, the years that Luigi were active?

Musical style

"Critics have compared the guitar-playing..." I'd suggest changing to "Critics have compared Morris's guitar-playing..." and moving the whole sentence so it comes directly after the first sentence given that both talk about guitar playing.

Covers and tributes

""Open the Door" has been covered by Eels for the single "Flyswatter"..." You should make it clearer that it was a B-side to the "Flyswatter" single.
Same with ""Favorite Writer" was covered by R.E.M. on their "Bad Day" single..."
"...as well as the 2003 tour to promote In Time: The Best of R.E.M. 1988–2003." Would suggest changing to "...and was played live during the 2003 tour to promote the In Time: The Best of R.E.M. 1988–2003 album."

Members

I'm a bit confused by the table here - it doesn't seem particularly obvious which line-up recorded which albums. Might be better to just include personnel here given that you already have a 'Discography' section.

Changes

Thanks First of all, let me thank you for this thorough review—it makes the process of amending it much easier for me and difficult for you. I have made all of the changes you requested above with the following exceptions:

Reading WP:REF, it is not strictly mandatory to place citations after punctuation such as a comma or full stop. Nonetheless, I've gone through several of these refs to move to them after punctuation and left a few mid-sentence if they explain particular clauses (e.g. The New York Times reference is after that publication is mentioned in the text.) In part, I do this to avoid having sentences with multiple sources tacked onto the end with no clear indication of what they cite (Such as "...leading to massive death and destruction.^{[7][11][34][56][61][63]}")

Ok, I could have sworn it was mandatory but maybe things have changed since I last checked.

I don't have page numbers for all of the printed references.

This wouldn't get through FAC but think it's just about ok at GA

As to whether or not Magnapop is a demo album, there was a long, drawn-out, and fruitless discussion of what constitutes "demo albums" at Talk:The Roxx Regime Demos and there was never a consensus there or at WP:ALBUM of what makes something a "demo album." For my money, it's an album largely or entirely composed of demos—which seems straight-forward enough, but others are of a different mind.

I disagree that Magnapop is a demo album as it was commercially released as the group's first album but that's just my opinion.

Does this make sense? Please let me know what else you think needs to be done before promotion. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:01, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also The picture of the band just got deleted and I've contact Flickr users to see if they will relicense their photos to use here. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for making the changes Koavf and good luck getting a band photo (for the record I think the picture of Morris is excellent) I only have a couple of issues left before I can promote:

"The band requested that Sugar bassist..." Just to clarify - the band approached Barbe? I'd prefer it if you said ""The band asked Sugar bassist..." here if that's what you mean.
I'm still unsure about the sentence in the 'Hiatus...' section regarding Hopper performing vocals on R.E.M.'s cover of "Favorite Writer". You need to say "...at two of the groups' concerts on June 21 and 22." if this is what you mean.