Talk:Madison Hu

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Actors and Filmmakers

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers (assessed as Low-importance).

United States: Asian Americans Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Asian Americans (assessed as Low-importance).

Women

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles

It is requested that an image or photograph of Madison Hu be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Madison Hu.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:36, 6 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Madison Hu.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:39, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Chinese version of name in article

The Chinese version of her name does not need to be in the article. She is an American national not a Chinese national, was born in the US and named Madison Hu at birth. I looked at the Chinese language source for her Chinese name and they switch between a Chinese version of her name written in Chinese characters, and her American name, seemingly at random. I am dubious of the translations being in any way official. The presumption the translation is accurate is WP:OR. This addition to the infobox doesn't add anything of value to the article - the Chinese translation of her name is not official and is just trivia. Geraldo Perez (talk) 15:07, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support removal of "Chinese" name – I reverted the addition of that on the basis that she is American and this isn't relevant, but was re-reverted. I still think the "Chinese" name template box does not belong at this article. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:17, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support removal especially considering this is a BLP; if it cannot be reliably sourced, then it needs to go. – DarkGlow • 15:22, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Response: Many other articles about lifelong American citizens of Chinese descent do include Chinese names. See: Jeremy Lin, Grace Meng, Gary Locke, and Lucy Liu. Also, the source given for Hu's Chinese name uses her Chinese name (胡紫蕊) multiple times, only mentioning her English name once. Arbor to SJ (talk) 04:43, 25 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There is no indication that her Chinese name stated in that publication is official in any sense, she would have to say she had one and tell us what it was. Articles in other languages translating names is just a translation and may not be what the person would necessarily chose to be named. I disagree with other Americans being tagged with ancestral formed names as well, they are also generally just translations and not a real alternative name. Geraldo Perez (talk) 08:12, 25 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Again regarding the source given - Sina is an authoritative source in the Chinese speaking world. Also, a 2016 interview of Hu with Los Angeles TV station KSCI [1] uses that name, essentially a confirmation from Hu.

I think I'll ask Wikipedia:WikiProject Asian Americans for their view about when to include Chinese names for American born Chinese people. Arbor to SJ (talk) 04:01, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Any foreign language outlet will translate most names into the character set used by that written language. They may speak a translation of that name as well. That is still just a Chinese translation of her American name and still adds no value to an article written in English about an American national. Basically what is the point to this? It is just trivia. Any English language reader will just see strange characters with no meaning. Any bilingual reader will already be able to make the same translations themselves and may or may not agree. What is in the article is is no way an official name in that language - they don't have one, just a translated American name. It is different for immigrants who do have an official name in their native language which makes sense to show in the article along with the name they use in English. American born people with Chinese ancestry seem to be the only ones who get this treatment of getting a ancestral form name asserted for them and listed in the article. Don't even see it for Americans with Japanese or Korean ancestors. Seems to be special for Chinese ancestry, not Asian descent in general. Geraldo Perez (talk) 04:42, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A example where this does make sense is with immigrants such as Liu Yifei. She does have official Chinese names, has Chinese film credits in those names, and including them adds value to the article as that is an official part of her name history. Madison Hu lacks all that. Geraldo Perez (talk) 05:13, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It is not a simple translation of her "American" name into Chinese, i.e. "Madison Hu" in Chinese. The translation of 胡紫蕊 is Hu Zirui. Zirui, loosely meaning "purple flower", is her Chinese given name, though typically stated as her middle name for the purposes of American Media (Chinese people do not have middle names). This is incredibly common for first generation children of Chinese immigrants to have their "American" name and a "Chinese" name. It is certainly not "trivia", it is literally her name, given by her parents, in her parents' native language. This reply seems to reflect a lack of knowledge of the Chinese language, and we should be careful when editing based on lack of knowledge of the topic. Rrjam10 (talk) 02:14, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If her birth name as registered on her birth certificate in Texas where she was born were "Madison Zuri Hu" as you indicated it might be, and there is a reliable source that supports that, there would be a case for including "Zuri" as part of her name. Knowledge of the Chinese written language is not expected of readers and editors of the English language Wikipedia which is a very good reason to avoid using it in articles. Geraldo Perez (talk) 02:56, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Her full birth name is cited by the court case from when she began acting and her child acting contract with the production company for Bizaardvark needed to be approved. This case, It's a Laugh Productions vs Madison Zirui Hu can be found at https://unicourt.com/case/ca-la2-its-a-laugh-productions-inc-vs-madison-zirui-hu-442467?init_S=csup_ltst. It is also given on her IMDB Pro page and cited as "self confirmed", which means it was confirmed by her or her representatives. As Arbor to SJ cited earlier, she is also clearly called Zirui by her mother, and Zirui is not simply the Chinese translation of "Madison" as you have incorrectly stated elsewhere (that would be 麦迪逊, spoken like Mai-dee-shun).

I find the argument that "Knowledge of the Chinese written language is not expected of readers and editors of the English language Wikipedia which is a very good reason to avoid using it in articles" to be, quite frankly, bizarre. Written Chinese appears on tens of thousands of articles on English Wikipedia. Just because you do not know Chinese, that does not mean there are not millions of readers who wouldn't appreciate seeing the given Chinese name of a Chinese-American provided and written in the original Chinese. Rrjam10 (talk) 19:25, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately WP:BLPPRIMARY says we can't use court documents as sources for bio info. It would be great to find a reliable secondary source that met WP:BLPPRIVACY requirements that isn't behind a paywall to use to source her middle name. People who know both Chinese and English would be well able to translate her original American birth name to Chinese on their own. For other English readers it is pointless unintelligible trivia. Chinese writing in other articles might be appropriate if there is a good sufficient justification for it, there isn't one for this article. Geraldo Perez (talk) 21:59, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, well, I am considering just reverting it back, but you will remove it, and it's not worth it. It's her name and her full proper name should be included on her page since it is publicly cited in numerous places. The arguments against doing it are extremely thin and there are thousands of articles for Chinese-Americans in which their Chinese name is cited, but there seems to be an ideological reason why some don't want to include it here. You are *still* not understanding, by the way. If Madison Hu is the only name provided, they won't get her birth name to do the translation. You are literally robbing a person of first-generation Chinese ancestry of her Chinese identity for no reasonable reason. I will actually be escalating this. Rrjam10 (talk) 22:07, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I assume her name is a romanization (Pinyin? or close English to capture the spoken name) of the name her parents gave her, what was placed on her birth certificate and is her legal name. We just need a source for her middle name. Nothing is being robbed of her ancestry, it is just expressed in a form non-Chinese people can read and understand. Geraldo Perez (talk) 22:30, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]