Talk:MAME/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Kaillera / MAME

Kaillera violates the MAME copyright by linking to a closed source library.

please see http://haze.mameworld.info/2006/08/06/mame-on-wikipedia/

Here it is clearly stated that such builds are Illegal due to incompatible licenses. MAME can not be linked against closed source libaries.

Wikipedia policy is stated here as

“External sites can possibly violate copyright. Linking to copyrighted works is usually not a problem, as long as you have made a reasonable effort to determine that the page in question is not violating someone else’s copyright. If it is, please do not link to the page. ”

therfore the majority of the Kaillera article is Illegal, and against Wiki policy, either because no reasonable effort was made to ensure that the links do not violate somebody else's copyright, or because the author knows and does not care that they do. There is no legal way to use MAME and Kaillera together.

As long as the article exists, it is a reasonable linking. If you do not like it, AFD it. But we have links to illegal things - or haven't you clicked murder lately? Also, this article is not linking to an external site about Mame32k - it is linking to the Kaillera article. Your beef, then, is within that article. Not this one. Stop edit warring here. --Golbez 11:07, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Note: I don't care a whit whether or not there's a link to Kaillera here. Personally, I think I'd prefer there not be. But the way y'all are conducting yourself is not helpful in the least, so now you all have to sit down and chat about it. So, go for it. --Golbez 11:14, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I tend to agree that as it's linking to another article on Wikipedia, there should be no issue with linking to it. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 16:17, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Then the other article really needs removing, there is no legal way to use MAME and Kaillera together. Posting links to builds and sites which offer such features is copyright infringement in the same way that posting a link to 0-day movie downloads would be. The development team might not be the MPAA but they still own the distribution rights and the terms & conditions of distribution for their product. Apparently the foreign language versions of this page are also cluttered with links to illegal sites, offering unauthorized downloads of MAME builds and ROMs. Articles on Wikipedia should be informative, and factual, but actually providing links to illegal content is clearly a step too far. It would be more productive if people dealt with the other inaccuracies in the article rather than constantly trying to add links to unauthorized builds, either directly, or indirectly.

Then you take your fight over there. The fight shall not exist here. --Golbez 23:55, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

As noted above -- the fact that an action is illegal in no way means that Wikipedia shouldn't describe and cover that action. We have articles on murders for goodness sake, and copyright violation is a much lesser offense. --FOo 03:59, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

You and other users are continuosly comparing the wikipedia article murder to MAME. If you and others have a brain you have noticed what the "illegal" information contained in murder is for documentation/study, not really need make bad acts whit this "illegal" information... But.. The article of MAME is really different, if you include links to illegal builds of MAME and roms this only is a benefit for the gamers warez kiddies and for ilegal sellers. This is the real difference of the article MAME in comparison to murder. The Wikipedia is a free way of information and not a way for the warez kiddies to obtain links to illegal material(movies, applications, games. See the word Warez of the wikipedia and look if it have any illegal link to a Warez site, only for compare it...). --Auslur 14:35, 7 August 2006 (GMT+1)

Look at it this way. I don't think anyone would object to wikilinking, say, gun in an aritcle about murder, just because the article says it's a common way of murdering someone (I haven't looked, but I assume it does). Certainly the links on the /Kaillara/ page shouldn't be ilegal, but linking to that page isn't exactly much different. The person who reads Warez could easily go searching just as one who reads Kaillera could. Wikipedia is meant to describe what IS, and at the very least, describing how MAME is popular enough to get people who go around the licence in that way seems at least a bit noteworthy. Just my opinion. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 16:14, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I repeat the same. Wikipedia is an information page and not a source for pirated material. If you look your eyes in the gun article you probably not view a link to illegal seller of guns. This article probably include now or in the future a link explaining how to create a gun, or how to transform a warning/false gun to a real gun. All of this is the liberty of information and concern to ideas of various hackers, and appart is a pure democratic politic, this is the free way of information. If you ovserve well the article Warez not view any link to a warez site for download Warez, you find nice links of external articles and links of the Warez culture(textfiles, nfos, etc) <--- this is information. You have the option to include a description in the MAME article about the illegal terms of Kaillera and other illegal builds, and the opposition of the MAME Team and this story, this is information but you need to include in the description the word "illegal", and no are need for include links to download illegal roms or builds(Kaillera, NeoMAME32, etc..).

You have the option to reference information or include links about of illegal drivers of MAME(yeah the games much newer not are included in mame and the gamers have created illegal drivers for newer games gameforkiddies.c), this is information, related on how to write drivers and about hardware of the arcades... This is information... But a download to illegal builds or roms only is the easy way for the warez kiddies. See the example of Warez only including information and not warez downloads.

Part 2:

The comparison to cracking and hacking. Probably you need include information(ezines, tutorials) or links in how to break a system, how to crack a commercial program or how to enter in a remote system. Bad information or not this is information, and is useful for administrators and students searching knowledge, and is good for analysis, detection and solution of computer problems, this is information. If you not include information and only include, for example, illegal links to builds or roms in the MAME article: you only donate an useless toy for a children...

Auslur 23:40, 7 August 2006 (GMT+1)

For the third and last time, these links do not exist in this article, nor have they for a short while, so I don't understand why you continue to harp about them. Go to Talk:Kaillera. Please. --Golbez 22:39, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The links for Kaillera have existed in this article in the past and for other illegal builds and illegal roms, and the discussion is about including the links now or not and not only for write about Kaillera or illegal builds or roms. And the links discussed here exist now for example in the Wikipedia of france and spain.

Auslur 01:55, 8 August 2006 (GMT+1)

And a perhaps better example, check out Astalavista_Security_Group ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 22:51, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

This is an *information* security group appart of containing links to Warez and is included in *one* definition of the Wikipedia(with a minimal *information* about the history of the group/webpage, only the link... useless...). Try to edit the article about Kaillera in the Wikipedia explaining the network game capabilities(the kaillera are used and accepted by other emulators, but the use with MAME is not accepted by the MAME team and is illegal because the license of MAME, and if you look the definition of Kaillera in the Wikipedia you find a very descriptive comment about MAME and Kaillera, and of course the illegal links to obtain a MAME integrated with Kaillera, but well you know what for this reason the Kaillera project in all is illegal, because the official page of Kaillera is offering a MAME integrated with Kaillera), or try to create other articles for all the other illegal builds and roms of MAME. But include direct links to webpages of this crap in the article of MAME is useless.

Auslur 01:50, 8 August 2006 (GMT+1)

I can't say as I see the point of linking to Kaillera. This article is about MAME. Kaillera is is related by being a hack of a port (sort of) of MAME. As I mentioned when I removed Kaillera before, it's like wikilinking to Xbox because MAMEoX exists. It's really not useful info. Reading an article on Kaillera (especially as that article stands now) won't really give you more insight into MAME, how it works, or what it does. If there were an article on MAME32k or whatever other hacks use Kaillera now, it might be worth linking to that page (and that page should link to Kaillera), but the odds are that any such page would be trivial and be AfDed anyway. --Le Scoopertemp [tk] 02:34, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I should say, Kaillera is related by being part of a hack of a port of MAME (MAME32 is still considered to be a port by the developers, despite MAME itself being a Win32 application these days). --Le Scoopertemp [tk] 02:37, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

That logic makes a lot more sense than what Auslur was spewing, but as I said, I think it should at least be noted, even if no specific examples are given, that MAME's popularity has spawned illegal builds, and the reason why they are. But, I seem to remember reading that Kaillara support actually used to be legit...and if so, it certainly ought to go somewhere, Like, how there used to be a way of legally playing multiplayer online, but there isn't any more, or whatever. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 16:18, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Legit is questionable, the builds they hosted and linked to always seemed to break the license in one way or another, either because the source didn't build the same binaries, they added secret access to extra romsets, and because they link against a closed library, claiming it to be a loophole despite the license stating the full source must be available. Because of this situation the license was simplified, clarified, and split into the license and trademark agreements. Kaillera has been frowned upon by the developers for a long time, not only for the way they break the license agreement, but also their general attitude towards the developers of MAME. Many of the developers also frown on netplay in general because it seems to bring out the worst in people, as seen by users constantly trying to spam links to irrelevant builds here.

If I are compared with you I have explained in this discussion more logic, examples, and information. And I know much more about the history of MAME and all the related to it(Kaillera and others) if I are compared with you. I not *only* have vomited insults and degradations like you.

Auslur 19:45, 8 August 2006 (GMT+1)

I didn't insult or degrade anyone (unless you consider "spewing", but that's about it). I admit I probably know less than you, but see, the whole point of Wikipedia is that anyone /reagurdless of expertise/ can contribute, and offer ways to help. It almost sounds like you're saying what I have to add is irrelevent and should be ignored on account of my knowledge, which goes against the very fabric of this place. We should aim for a correct, as neutral as possible, standard. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 02:29, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

My point is mainly that any build with Kaillera is a fairly marginal build in the "MAME community". It's like noting that Linux is popular that some specific build that a handful of people use is relevant to that. Surely there's a better way to demonstrate notability, like mentioning the far more common derivative builds like ones that add support for CJK characters or AGEMAME and MESS (which is mentioned). This episode gives me a strange feeling of someone trying to legitimize and draw attention to something they want to draw attention to, rather than something of real relevance. Also, Kaillera was never compatible with the MAME license (old or current). The developers have become more aggressive about trying to deal with unauthorized builds in the last year or so, which could cause confusion about what "used to be alright". By the by, XMAME (MAME for XWindows) does include rudimentary, license-compatible, netplay support. --Le Scoopertemp [tk] 16:36, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Exactly, there is no point in adding links to these nuisance builds, or mention of them here, they serve little importance in the big picture of MAME and really just strike me as an attention grab by fanboys of the builds to get them mentioned here. The article can really do without them. I still question having a link to Kaillera at all, it really has no legal ties with MAME, it's insignificant, and doesn't really tie in with what this article is about, which is MAME. I mean, you may as well fill the page with links to Allegro and Seal (because MAME used to use them for the DOS port!), DJGPP compiler (for DOS builds), GCC compiler (for windows builds), dumping tools (for Dumping roms), Arcade PCB shops (for buying the PCBs to dump and use with MAME).. To be fair they all have about as much relevance to the article as some dodgy netplay system which is Illegal to use with MAME.

You should probably add that then. --Golbez 17:23, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I not known this netplay for XMAME(and of course XMAME is a port of MAME...), but the actual client of Kaillera(source closed, only the server is open source) if I remember well are not compatible with linux because of incompatibility of various network protocols.

Auslur 19:49, 8 August 2006 (GMT+1)

Anyone notice that MAME.net points interested parties to Kaillera? http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#h09

Mame.net is not run by the developers, and most of the FAQ was written when there was still hope Kaillera could become license compliant. It never did.

and it's gone anyway.

The supposition that MAME.net is not run by developers does not change the fact that THE officially sanctioned MAME website encourages use of Kaillera builds.

Here's a post, in 2004, of me pointing out the problem to "Haze": You can follow the thread up, if you like to the original post. Suffice to say that there had been 1) Notification 2) Sufficient time.

The officially sanctioned MAME website is now mamedev.org. One of the reasons for this is because the developers had no control over mame.net, things didn't get done, WIP updates, FAQ updates, removal of ROM requests, you name it. It has gone now, the webmaster over there just needs a kick up the backside from time to time. Half the links posted around here were even worse, they included not only an Illegal build of MAME but all the BIOS roms and various other files in the same ZIP.

MAMEdev.org, "The official site of the MAME development team". MAME.net, "Welcome to the MAME website". I think it's clear, both in title and in mood that MAMEdev is a website for developers, not users.

The official MAME website. You might want to sue them for lying - it won't help that they've been claiming that since, according to archive.org, AT LEAST 2000.

A kick up the backside works wonders don'tya think?

A kick up the backside might change the future of MAME but does not change the past. Wikipedia intends to document fact. I think it's fair to say that MAME.net was the official MAME website for over 6 years (archive.org gets fuzzy before that) and that during that time MAME.net encouraged the use of Kaillera - as documented by historical fact. The removal of Kaillera from MAME's history is revisionist.

And I think you`ll find one of the reasons it was dropped and no longer considered the official site is exactly reasons like that. It was never maintained properly, it was never under proper control of the development team, the content of the site never reflected the views and opinions of the actual developers.

Removal of the hiscore.dat links

The file hiscore.dat for MAME is a file for support the save of the hiscores for games what in the real hardware not save the hiscores(see the games Pacman or Frogger).

The support of hiscore.dat is removed of MAME various versions ago, and support totally removed from the source of MAME in the version 0.107u1. The hiscore.dat not work with the official MAME version 0.107u1 and up. Including links to hiscore.dat is useless, this simply doesn't work with the official MAME discussed here, is only the past of MAME and a simple reference of information about it in the article is enough, the links to it are useless. You read an article writed by Haze(a MAME developer) about the hiscore.dat and other things of MAME, when Haze have writed this information are the Senior/Leader of MAME, now is Aaron Giles and the philosophy about the hiscore.dat are the same. Here the link:

http://haze.mameworld.info/2005/08/23/the-mamedev-cut/

Auslur 20:20, 8 August 2006 (GMT+1)

Non-MAME related information

I agree that a lot of the information in the article is unneccessary or at least unrelated to MAME. However, I find the size of a "full" ROM set to be one of the more interesting properties, simply because of the vast size of emulated ROM data. And this is not linked to the number of games emulated, there exist emulators for other systems which emulate more games but have a (reportedly) smaller "full ROM set" (SNES for example). Darkstar 20:36, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

The 'Full ROM set' size depends on many factors, compression, which files you put in which ZIPs, the full *uncompressed* size would be a much more interesting piece of trivia, the full compressed size is somewhat irrelevant and subject to opinion and other external factors. The number of supported sets / parent sets, already mentioned, is also a more worthwhile piece of trivia, how many DVDs a 'complete MAME set' will take up is just a measure of the size of a warez collection.

ROM Images section

Much of the information in the ROM image section was simply duplicating what is already discussed in the main ROM images article.

I've edited this and replaced much of the information with MAME specific details, detailing the MAME philosophy on Romsets, Rom naming etc which differs greatly when compared to say Console emulation where the focus is more on 'playing games'. This is much more relevant to the article then generic information on 'Where to get roms' which is already covered elsewhere.

MAME specific details such as Gridlee and Robby Roto have been left, and Alien Arena, another Legal rom has been mentioned.

There are better places to discuss the details of getting ROMs than in an article about MAME. MAME is an emulator, its connection with ROMs is simply that it requires them to run. Telling people how to get ROMs doesn't tell them anything about MAME as an emulator and is straying off-topic, the new information is more about MAME, and less about 'getting ROMs' Details of Robby Roto etc. do still relate to MAME as the MAME developers were granted special permission to distribute them.

It currently needs a tidy up, I'm not great at formatting, nor familiar with the standards in Wiki layout. The new information is correct, but the presentation of it needs work.

I'll try and work on removing duplication at some point. The ROM article is a complete mess as well, but one step at a time, eh. Chris Cunningham 13:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I've done some formatting and I restructured a line or two (no actual content edits). I feel that the paragraph needs an image, perhaps a CPS board? Then the Mac image can move up a paragraph. Specularr 13:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

"Emulation Philosophy" section

I'm not sure this section should be here. If it should be here, I think the use of the word "pure" makes it read as being non-neutral. Whether the section is "pro-MAME" or "anti-MAME" is not entirely clear, but once the word "pure" gets in there, neutrality goes out the window. Specifically, when reading it, I definitely get the feeling that the author has a negative attitude towards MAME and prefers UltraHLE because it runs faster. PragmaticallyWyrd 11:27, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I completely disagree. Reading over the whole section, it looks pretty acurate to me, though certainly some more references would be a good idea. Regarding the word "purist", I think it works -- I don't think it's at all a negative word, rather, it's saying that they are going for "pure" emulation, that is, trying to do exactly what the original did. If you can find a better word, feel free to be bold. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 12:02, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Ports

Since the cleanup the MAME page is now completely lacking in any information on the 'official' ports such as SDLMame, XMame and MacMAME. These are more relevant to the project than say Raine is (which is just another Arcade emulator, and is unrelated to the MAME codebase). Also HazeMD is based entirely on the MAME code, not the MESS code. MESS has a completely different approach to console emulation and supported sets, so it probably belongs here, not on the MESS page where it has been moved to. I can't see why removing accurate external links which are important and relevant to the article is progress. --S

Why ROMs for arcade games should be legal

My excuse: if the arcades still had these games I would play them there. Because of these new, flashy games, the good ol' classics. But, because those money-grubbing jerks called Namco, I can't play a friggin' game of Pac-Man in peace (and Galaga, Pole Position, Rally-X, and Bosconian) Pacmanfever 23:31, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

1) Many popular old games, especially Pac-Man and Galaga, DO have machines out there in arcades 2) Wikipedia is not a soapbox, so your comment isn't really predent here (and quite possibly will get deleted). ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 00:15, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Sure you can. Find one of them plug-and-play joysticks. Pac-Man and Bosconian work just great on mine, and I got it for probably two, three bucks... Drjayphd 06:10, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion for change of the "OS" label.

I suggest we change the OS label to something that incorporates the newer technology that MAME can be run on. I think it is of some importance that people know MAME can be run from systems like the XBOX & PSP. Alternativley a label below "OS" called "ports" might work. Snowbound 00:57, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

It'd probably be best just to change the infobox OS to cross-platform.

Official website again

Seems there is still an edit war going on here about which page is the official/correct/right/... website for the MAME project. There are two contenders for that title: First, http://www.mame.net, which claims to be The MAME website. Second, http://www.mamedev.org which says it is The official site of the MAME development team (emphasis mine). So none of these two sites claim that they're the official MAME site. Clearly, www.mame.net is not obsolete yet, because it still hosts the forums, screenshots, samples, artwork, etc. However, as I understand it, the sources and binaries on mamedev.org are to be considered the "official" ones. Maybe this should be clarified in the article? --Darkstar 13:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

The problem with this (and I was going to dig up a ref) is that the primary point of contact with MAMEdev is the ZDNet-hosted message board at mame.net - however, posts don't have canonical URLs and they expire after a week, so little point citing them. There may be an official explanation in a blog post somewhere, not that this is a great improvement.

For the sake of explaining it here, mame.net is owned by ZDNet, and the site op isn't in MAMEdev, so the lack of control worried necessitated an eventual move. The only official MAME site at this point is mamedev.org, although "official" has always been a bit of a funny term in MAME what with the not-quite-free licensing and so on. Chris Cunningham 13:57, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

mame.net is owned by ZTNet, not ZDNet. The maintainer of mame.net is a member of the MAME development team. Strictly speaking mamedev.org is the official site, although it would not be entirely incorrect to say that both are. 130.233.243.229 23:43, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

MAME.net now redirects to mamedev.org, so I guess there's only one site left 144.32.128.119 22:34, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Pronounciation of MAME (help from Italian speakers?)

In Nicola Salmoria's thesis was written on MAME, and is a fascinating read. Aside from putting it in the references section, perhaps, I would like some commentary on the pronunciation note given on page 5:

Pronunciato “mame”, non “meim”.

How does this sound in English? --Edwin Herdman 05:07, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Roughly "mah-meh". Regardless, the official FAQ (also maintained by an Italian) has for years made it quite specific that English speakers should pronounce it as in the word "maim". As for putting it in refs, it might be a primary source n'all, but unless it's being directly used to source parts of the article then we should avoid including links to foreign-language works. Chris Cunningham 10:44, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I'll let that one lie. Thanks! --Edwin Herdman 07:49, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

MAME32 link

There is a MAME32 link in this article. However, MAME32 redirects to MAME itself and there is no info about MAME32 on wikipedia. --CrazyTerabyte 18:59, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

In such cases, remove the circular link. Though I already did it in this case. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 20:22, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Play over internet

Are there any plans in the works to make it possible to play 2-player MAME games with other people over the internet? Captain Zyrain 05:56, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I just found out the answer:

Officially, no. Empirical evidence shows that network play tends to attract the wrong kind of people. Network play is also seen as a novelty feature with no development value, so none of the main developers are not interested in implementing it.

Do not ask for such a feature to be implemented, and do not ask us for any support using 3rd party programs. Specifically, do not ask about a well-known but license violating build that starts with a 'K'. That such a build exists and openly flaunts their violation of the MAME license only serves to reinforce the assertion that this feature attracts the wrong crowd.

Captain Zyrain 05:59, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

What is this mysterious build that starts with a K? Captain Zyrain 06:01, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Kaillera. --Golbez 06:31, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Most online games are of the fighting variety. It's difficult to find anyone interested in anything else. 2fort5r (talk) 23:40, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

mame32

mame32 redirects here but the article provides no information about that program - so are we adding it to this article or splitting this article? --Fredrick day 16:13, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

MAME arcade cabinet --> MAME

I'm wondering why the MAME arcade cabinet article now redirects to MAME? The MAME article discusses the emulator. There is a link to "MAME arcade cabinet" in the article, but it is a redirect to the same article. I gather there was at one time a separate article about cabinets. Myself, I feel that given the number of pages out there about various enthusiasts' home-built arcade cabinets running MAME (as well as Jammer and others), there is sufficient grounds for a separate article. I'll pursue this more once I'm home. --   ¥    Jacky Tar  22:37, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

It was deleted after being transcribed to WikiBooks, where it belongs. The content wasn't appropriate for an encyclopedia, though it's fine for WikiBooks. Chris Cunningham 09:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Except that WikiBooks link doesn't have anything there. Hope that didn't get whacked... Drjayphd 06:08, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Apparently, it's at b:Transwiki:MAME_arcade_cabinet. Dunno the best way to add it back into the article... ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 13:23, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I've just pointed the template at it for now. It can get cleaned up later. Chris Cunningham (talk) 13:40, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

"(actually the nth proper release)"

I've been updating the number for "nth proper release" (2nd paragraph) for a while, but I have no source for it. Should this number be removed from the article? --jh51681 (talk) 00:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Analog to digital conversion -- huh?

To play a particular game, MAME requires a set of files called a ROM set. They contain all the data from the original machine; however, MAME itself does not include any of these files. For analog media, such as laserdiscs and magnetic tapes with audio/video data, it is impossible to make a 100% accurate digital copy. The process necessarily involves an analogue-digital conversion and the resultant reduction in quality.

This sounds a little fishy. If the data cannot be read reliably, wouldn't that also be true for the arcade hardware? You would end up with random, non-deterministic code and data, likely resulting in a crash. What is this passage actually trying to say? It's one thing if an analog medium is damaged in a way that makes it impossible to recover a bit-for-bit copy of the data, but what does that have to do with MAME? Ham Pastrami (talk) 09:12, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

It only applies to games with streaming media, so there's no game logic held on the analogue media. There's no a2d conversion going on: various Data East games actually played their soundtracks from audio cassettes, and in laserdisc-based machines the cabinets physically incorporate analogue laserdisc machines. If it makes it any clearer, try imagining that an arcade machine could theoretically play its music track from an analogue record player held inside the cabinet. Any emulation of the medium would involve turning it into a set of digital tracks, but the original source is analogue (and is played without a2d conversion in the actual cabinet). of course the whole ROM section could do with a clarity rewrite. Chris Cunningham (talk) 10:36, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. I think what threw me off was the phrase "analog-to-digital conversion" which usually refers to a hardware circuit. I have edited the passage to hopefully be clearer about the intended meaning. Ham Pastrami (talk) 10:47, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Perfect. Much clearer. Thanks. Chris Cunningham (talk) 10:52, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Official Website, down?

For months now the official website has shown nothing but a default Apache webpage, what's up with this? Are the MAME devs asleep or have they been frozen to be waken up later in the future? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.44.166.245 (talk) 11:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps you're typing it wrong; it just worked fine for me, with www.mamedev.org working, and www.mame.net redirecting to that. --Golbez (talk) 14:45, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for screenshots

What exactly do the screenshots of non-free games add to the article? We've got someone in Templates for deletion who thinks they don't add anything significant that can't be expressed just as well with text. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 17:17, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

New versions

Does anyone know why new versions of MAME do not recognize old romsets? Surely there can be only one version of each romset? What happens when a romset is updated? Is the data changed somehow, or just the "packaging"? 2fort5r (talk) 23:43, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Sometimes they discover that the romset was bad; that it had too many roms (overdumps) or that it somehow was missing roms, or that one of the roms was incorrectly dumped, or what not. They also on occasion rename roms and sets. --Golbez (talk) 23:47, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

it is not true

The MAME team has not diverged from this purist philosophy to take advantage 
of 3D hardware available on PCs today. It is a common but incorrect assumption 
that performance problems are due to some games' use of 3D graphics. However, 
even with graphics disabled, games using RISC processors and other modern hardware 
are not emulated any faster. Thus taking advantage of 3D hardware would not speed these 
games up significantly. In addition, using 3D hardware would make it difficult 
to guarantee identical output between different brands of cards, or even revisions 
of drivers on the same card, which goes against the MAME philosophy. Consistency of 
output across platforms is very important to the MAME team.

It is not true, i tested a mame with 3d hardware acceleration and runs at decent framerate (50-60fps), while the raster version run at most at 5-10fps.

--201.222.151.213 (talk) 23:04, 17 November 2009 (UTC)--201.222.151.213 (talk) 23:04, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

A lot depends on the board being emulated. Some late era arcade games [I'll the the Lost World out as an example] are so graphically heavy that 3d support will be a factor (potentially significantly). In other cases, the RISC processor is a much bigger factor. You could argue the speed argument a bit in some cases, but the second half of the statement (IE Emulation accuracy and MAME philiosophy] still apply. A more correct statement would be something along the lines of "in most cases, 3d hardware would not have a significant impact on speed, but...". --151.190.254.108 (talk) 20:26, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Your case refers to the output being done with 3D hardware acceleration, which has nothing to do with the final output. Using software rendered output is always drastically slower in MAME than using 3D rendered output, and looks exactly the same. You just don't know what you're talking about :) --99.50.202.231 (talk) 08:44, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

List of emulated Arcade Boards?

Would it make sense cnsidering that it isto do with MAME to incorperate an overview of thee emulae boards? ex.

Konami DJ-Main Konami System537 (Imperfect) Konami Viper (Preliminary) System 246 (Very Preliminary) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Silrox9 (talk • contribs) 02:29, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

If I understand what you're saying, you think we should list all of the hardwares emulated by mame... that seems way too large and more easily handled on a third-party site. It's not really Wikipedia's job to inform people which obscure arcade board has been emulated. We don't list games, we shouldn't list boards. --Golbez (talk) 06:20, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

You do list games on consoles. List of Nintendo GameCube games for an example. Silrox9 (talk) 18:05, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh huh. We do. Though I meant we don't list MAME games, nor should we IMO. Either way, most, if not all, of those have articles. There are sadly very few arcade boards with articles. So you'd be making a list of almost entirely redlinks, which doesn't help much. And, furthermore... it would go on another article, not this one. --Golbez (talk) 18:43, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

We have such a list: Arcade system board. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 17:57, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

The difference is, a Gamecube is a platform, and games for it were made for it. MAME is just a program that supports a bunch of various otherwise unrelated boards. It'd kind of be like listing the menu of a restaurant, which we don't do either. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 19:14, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Don't we? See McDonald's products and Burger King products. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 17:57, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Source to buy ROMs legally?

Is there any way to LEGALLY purchase ROMs from late 70's, early 80's arcade machines? If not, could this possibly happen in the near future? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.100.52.87 (talk) 18:37, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

No, apart from a handful of roms released by their copyright holder; and no, not likely, since the market is tiny. --Golbez (talk) 19:10, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Alternatives to MAME?

MAME's license forbids commercial use. Are there any other similar projects that permit it? Are any of them open source? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.243.221.144 (talk) 01:57, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

So far as I know there's no project with nearly the size and scope of MAME. --Golbez (talk) 13:34, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

What good would an emulator-for-profit do you anyway when almost every ROM that is released isn't actually legal to use (much less profit from)? Just like the section above this one mentions, only a very small number of ROMs are actually legal for use no matter what so many downloading websites say about the thousands of ROMs they offer, "must delete the file after 30 days". That is a complete lie; you aren't legally allowed to download and keep any of those thousands of ROMs for any reason for any length of time. And of the few ROMs that remain which are legal, well, I would not be willing to pay to play Pong in this day and age. One of the few exceptions to downloading is that you can purchase classic Nintendo ROMs downloading them directly to your Wii because Nintendo already owned the rights to those games, but you can't legally set up a Wii somewhere and charge people to play the games. — CobraWiki ^{( jabber | stuff )} 03:13, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Actually, Pong isn't a romset, and it's not in MAME. :) It was simulated in MAME a long time ago but was removed. It's estimate that to accurately emulate pong would require a ~20ghz processor. --Golbez (talk) 04:56, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I know, it was just the first old program that came to mind as an example of what might be legal today for use, not necessarily for MAME. I did find a website over a year back with a collection of legal ROMs and documentation to prove it. There were less than a dozen only. — CobraWiki ^{( jabber | stuff )} 18:45, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Commercial use of MAME would allow someone with a dead arcade machine to continue to legally use their ROM's in other hardware. They own the ROM's, so there shouldn't be any real issues here. Eventually the old hardware won't be reparable due to a lack of parts. MAME could extend the life of these old arcade machines indefinitely. Eventually, the ROM copyrights will expire. When this happens, people will be free to do whatever they want with them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.243.221.144 (talk)

... in about a hundred years or so, give or take. I have a feeling that by then, our quaint notions of copyright will be somewhat altered. --Golbez (talk) 16:59, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Also consider that the copyright issue is ever-stretched based on whether or not the companies feel they might be able to make money off of them. Take the music industry for example. Years back people did not give a second thought to copying cassette tapes that they purchased. You never heard about RIAA vendettas to "stop cassette tape piracy". These days, they have claimed that for any public use of a song, a separate license must be bought for each person in public to hear it (the two examples I have read about were at a firehouse and at a school pep rally). I would suspect that ROM copyrights are just as blurry with claims that "You may own the arcade machine and within the machine are the chips with the romsets encoded, but we still own the ROMs themselves. You are still not allowed to modify, copy, or or profit from them." That may be a reason why MAME is not commercial; so that the blurred line is something that they can avoid and keep companies from attempting to sue. — CobraWiki ^{( jabber | stuff )} 18:45, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

MAME uX's released on forums

Shouldn't it be noted, under the uX section that uX updates are normally released in 32/64/C2D builds on MAMEWorld.net? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.154.91.64 (talk) 22:28, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't actually know what is going on here...

some sort of something

...but I thought this image could be used to describe something related to this topic. If anyone is more in the know, please use it. Thanks. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 10:55, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Stuart Campbell

I added a bit about Stuart Campbell's criticism of the MAME developer philosophy, but it keeps getting deleted. Campbell is mentioned on Wikipedia - a cursory Google search shows this. He is a professional writer mentioned in the articles for Your Sinclair, Sega Zone, Space Giraffe, Retro Gamer, Mega (magazine), The Train Game. He's cited in even more. --Jtalledo (talk) 00:31, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

I believe Campbell has at least baseline credentials to be used as a self-published source per WP:SPS. It also adds perspective to the article so in total I would leave it in until there is a consensus to remove. Ham Pastrami (talk) 02:33, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree with the removal. If we're going to start adding old game-journalists to every article they've ever disagreed with, we'll be here for weeks. Campbell is not a special case. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.196.203.251 (talk) 16:39, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm somewhat ambivalent about the removal of source material here (we're crying out for secondary sources), but importantly that article also contains some historical information on development (for instance, who took over from Nicola and when) which we don't currently cover. I'm putting it back in for the time being until I can properly incorporate the good bits into the rest of the article. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward: not at work) - talk 14:15, 11 April 2011 (UTC)