Talk:Luke Littler

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This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:

December 31, 2023 to January 6, 2024 (9th)

Other tournament wins

2018 was the last year of the UK Open qualifiers. Having it in the infobox is likely to cause confusion as this is not the same tournament that MVG, Simon Whitlock and Corey Cadby won. I think t Littler won a pub qualifier and they are not usually included in the infobox. (78.19.44.17 (talk) 15:27, 31 December 2023 (UTC))[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2024

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He is now ranked number 9 86.6.106.157 (talk) 04:43, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. SSSB (talk) 11:36, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Eloise Milburn

Are we going to put everyone Luke dates in the article? According to the sources they are in the early stages of their relationship. (Fran Bosh (talk) 16:08, 4 January 2024 (UTC))[reply]

That seems to be par for the course for many celebrity articles, if it's reported by multiple WP:RS sources? But exactly how many are you expecting? I guess there would be far less reporting if Milburn wasn't five years his senior. This seems to be the issue of media focus. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:14, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Age

Controversy over his age should feature. I am in the sceptical group, inclined not to believe it. 77.100.178.145 (talk) 00:09, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure there's any "controversy". As in any sport, competitive darts requires competitors' ages to be rigorously attested. It's not his fault that he looks about 30. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:29, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, there is no reliable source which questions his age - if I'm wrong, please feel free to add it. At the same time, I have twice removed the exact number of days, as I think this level of detail is excessive. We already have the actual day included in the article, anyway... GnocchiFan (talk) 20:57, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Martinevans123:, regarding this - I'm not disputing the calculation, but I don't see why we should include days in the article prose for people above the age of 1 year. My removal is for the same reason we don't routinely include days and months in most biographies on Wikipedia, especially for BLPs. It doesn't seem very standard and I think consensus should be sought here. GnocchiFan (talk) 23:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello GnocchiFan. Thanks for raising this question here. I guess the point of including the days is to show he was nearly 17. It's not that important. Perhaps a footnote might be appropriate. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:45, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 section

I think deciding to split the Premier League Darts into its own sub-heading under 2024 will stop the clashing with other tournament information or stuff that has happened during his darts career in 2024. It helps people who read the article get the information they need straightforwardly. I hope this was a nice edition, especially after this being the only tournament that runs through loads of other tournaments on the PDC calendar.

Kind regards, GalacticalCosmics (talk) 21:37, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Family

Never hear or see anything about his family. Can someone elaborate on it?? 2406:2D40:41AE:4A00:D401:3528:B004:DEA2 (talk) 23:05, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This Sun article mentions them.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/25179172/luke-littler-parents-anthony-lisa-bates/

Ive seen his mum in the crowd at matches. I don’t think it’s that relevant to be honest. 86.23.141.107 (talk) 09:22, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's this, which discusses it a bit and is more reliable than the deprecated Sun. Though also not sure about how relevant this is to the article. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 14:32, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Personal information

In the personal information box, it says he was born in Warrington and his home town is Runcorn but the text says the opposite. His home town is definitely Warrington. He moved there as a small child and the school he attended is in the Warrington area. 86.23.141.107 (talk) 09:16, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Birthplace

Multiple sources and publications state that Littler was born in Runcorn and later moved to Warrington. See This Article for example. wafflerrs ^talk! 22:33, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The one that is cited in early life shows his birth certificate, stating he was born in Warrington, the Borough of Warrington. JamesVilla44 (talk) 22:34, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Metro isn't a reliable source, and should be removed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:35, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

ITV Sport stated that he is from Warrington https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2024-01-04/luke-littler-i-cant-wait-to-get-back-to-my-xbox JamesVilla44 (talk) 22:38, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

From doesn't mean he was born there. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:40, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A number of tabloid sources (so no use to us) have printed an image of his birth certificate, which says he was born here. Black Kite (talk) 22:45, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The two sources I found regarding that image simply source it coming from "someone on Twitter". Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:46, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

'From' references his home town of Warrington, not his birthplace wafflerrs ^talk! 22:40, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Do you know where TalkSPORT are getting that info from and how reliable they are for this? JamesVilla44 (talk) 22:42, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We should probably trust the Independent Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:45, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, WP:THEINDEPENDENT lists them as considered a reliable source for non-specialist information. JamesVilla44 (talk) 22:47, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. Unless there are some RS that actually do say that he was born in Warrington, we should state Runcorn and use at least this one citation. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:50, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Lee Vilenski Well, Marca is also a reliable source - [1]. Are we suggesting that the image of the birth certificate is faked? Black Kite (talk) 22:51, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Marca cites a tweet from TalkTV. Is there an established view on Wikipedia of the reliability of TalkTV? JamesVilla44 (talk) 22:53, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My personal opinion of TalkTV is that they are far-right wing in political orientation and often produce unreliable information to sell their narrative. wafflerrs ^talk! 22:54, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'll just point out that Warrington Hospital is the nearest maternity hospital to Runcorn. If he was born in a hospital to parents who lived in Runcorn he would probably have been born in Warrington. Are we genuinely saying that multiple outlets - even if they aren't the best sources - are going to forge someone's birth certificate? That's ... a bit silly. Black Kite (talk) 22:56, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Didn't say that it was necessarily forged, just commented about the general reliability of TalkTV, however all the images of the birth certificate originate from one tweet from TalkTV here - seeing as this has come from a single source, I don't think this is particularly reliable, especially as these things can be easily faked nowadays. wafflerrs ^talk! 23:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

To make things more confusing, the birth certificate is missing the reference number in the top right hand corner, suggesting that this is not legitimate. wafflerrs ^talk! 23:04, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Upon further inspection, the reference number has been redacted... using an AI regenerative background thing, or similar, like the AI generative fill available in Photoshop. This means that the certificate has been altered digitally in some form. wafflerrs ^talk! 23:07, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think we've ever discussed it. I don't know why someone would make up him being born in Runcorn. However, as there are sources both ways, I suggest a note stating it's unconfirmed in the infobox and use both cites (unless we have a consensus either way).

To make things a bit more confusing, as far as I can tell, hospitals in Warrington and Runcorn are part of the "Warrington & Halton Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust", so that might be where the confusion is. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:59, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but the maternity hospital is in Warrington. I think the Independent and others are confusing the fact that his parents lived in Runcorn when he was born, with where he was actually born. Let's not forget that they got hold of the birth certificate to prove his age, not his place of birth. Black Kite (talk) 23:05, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest a note on the claim (of him being born in Warrington) with something like "some sources state Littler was born in Runcorn". Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 23:08, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Seems reasonable. No doubt we'll get a better source at some point now he's won the world title. Black Kite (talk) 23:10, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This seems like a reasonable middle ground due to conflicting sources and. wafflerrs ^talk! 23:14, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We don’t need to remove his birth date. That is covered as 21 January 2007 by reliable perennial sources such as the Guardian and Sky News. JamesVilla44 (talk) 23:37, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A third party editor not involved in this discussion removed the birthdate. wafflerrs ^talk! 23:38, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with this wafflerrs ^talk! 22:49, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The big thing of course is to avoid an edit war, which definitely has the potential to occur if we don’t manage to come to a consensus on it JamesVilla44 (talk) 22:48, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox

I think this is probably the longest Infobox I've ever seen. Can we do some culling? Do we need to list every youth title they've ever won? Do we need a bulleted list as a summary of his career - that's what the lede is for. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:49, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Could probably cut it down to the PDC World Youth Championship, JDC World Championship, 2023 Development Tour, the World Youth Masters and the JDC Super 16, as they are the most notable and significant in terms of coverage. JamesVilla44 (talk) 22:57, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think the article in general suffers from bloat. I get that this subject hasn't had a long career (but, clearly successful), but coverage of basically every match from every tournament is overkill. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 23:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If we clear out a chunk of the clutter, this is a good step towards achieving good article status. wafflerrs ^talk! 23:21, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Fellow darts-player Phil Taylor (darts player) is probably the longest infobox on Wikipedia. This one is also far too long, and should be culled. 217.180.214.53 (talk) 03:54, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]