Talk:Luiz Henrique

Mistaken move and deletion

1. In the absence of a primary topic (clearly not contemplated by the editor who requested moving Luiz Henrique), a Dab page should not be renamed by adding "(disambiguation)" as a suffix to its name.
2. A Dab page with that suffix can't only do its job, if the unsuffixed title is a red link! (No one but editors type the title "Luiz Henrique (disambiguation)" in the Go/search box, and almost no one, editor or not, adds it to a main-namespace page.)
3. Our firm guideline is that the suffixed title be the Rdr and the unsuffixed the Dab, rather than the reverse, and the deleting admin should not have executed the requested speedy deletion of the Rdr (even if they didn't realize the move needed reversal).

I've moved it back, and restored the previously deleted revisions.
--Jerzy•t 07:27, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Is it a Dab?

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Bottom line the case was not made that any Luiz Henrique or other names that include Luiz is the primary use of Luiz. So that should still redirect to the dab that meets the guidelines. Vegaswikian (talk) 18:00, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Luiz Henrique → Luiz — Here's why:
Portuguese name (which explicitly covers Brazil) says that, as in Spanish-speaking countries, two-part surnames are prevalent, but contrary to Spanish practice, it is normal for the first portion of the surname to be the one that gets dropped when confusion is unlikely. Thus we would expect, e.g., Luiz Henrique Koprowski to be widely referred to as Luiz Koprowski, Senhor Henrique Koprowski, and Senhor Koprowski, and similarly Luiz Henrique Rosa as Luiz Rosa, Senhor Henrique Rosa, and Senhor Rosa. We would not expect them to be referred to in the way ("Luiz Henrique") that invites confusion among them and the others listed on the accompanying Dab page.
So one or the other of these two could appear appropriately, outside of articles, only

1. on new Dab pages or Rdrs Luiz Koprowski and Luiz Rosa, respectively,
2. on surname pages or Rdrs, Henrique Koprowski and Koprowski in the first case, and surname pages or Rdrs Henrique Rosa (surname) and Rosa (surname) in the second, and
3. on new {{hndis}} or Rdr pages Luiz Koprowski and Luiz Rosa, respectively --

but normally not on the accompanying Dab -- no more than we expect Henry David Thoreau, Henry David Erskine, 10th Earl of Buchan, and Henry David Leslie to appear on a page entitled Henry David. And the others on the accompanying Dab page likewise would not normally belong there.
(Just above, i implicitly proposed creation of Henrique Rosa (surname) by mentioning it in a red link. If it's created, Henrique Rosa should get a HatNote Dab pointing to it.)
For Rosa, however, other reasoning applies, at least for the moment: Google finds

116 for "Luiz Henrique" "Finding a New Friend"

(substantially different hits) vs.

28 for "Luiz Henrique Rosa" "Finding a New Friend"

indicating that 3/4 of refs for him in that context omit "Rosa", and suggesting that he was known (however idiosyncratically) by that music-professional name. Assuming that our bio of him is correct in regarding that recording as a notable aspect of him, IMO it justifies our connecting to his bio from the accompanying main-namespace page, whether it becomes a Rdr or a Dab. (However, the small number of hits raises a question about that notability assumption -- a matter which i don't intend to be further involved with).
As to the others, all 5 are Brazilian footballers born in about the same 6- to 8-year span, and it is highly unlikely (despite the statements in several of their bios about being called called just "Luiz Henrique") that they all meet the criterion of WP:MoSDab#Given names or surnames, "they are very frequently referred to by that name alone", since the contexts where the nickname could be applied without first having clarified which one is intended are are few. Thus i am proposing (pending evidence for at least one of the non-musicians being so widely known without mention of the second unit of his apparently double surname, that users are likely to come looking for his bio without typing that) the whole following set of complementary measures:

1. renaming the accompanying Dab page to Luiz (without moving this talk page, but keeping the Rdr that results by default), reworking it into a {{surname}} and {{surname-stub}} page, and creating some kind of lk on it to Luis (Luiz currently being a Rdr to the Luis Dab),
2. deleting the Rdr (to Luiz Henrique) at Luiz Henrique (disambiguation) (since there will no longer be a Dabn pg),
3. moving the entries other than Luiz Henrique Rosa onto this talk page, for use in the event of the presentation of evidence that one or more of them is sufficiently well known as "Luiz Henrique" without mention of the rest of his (apparently double) surname, and
4. leaving in place the move-created redirect at Luiz Henrique to Luiz Henrique Rosa.

If that proposal is carried out, and someone later offers evidence that a Dab'n page helps users (beyond stroking the vanity of Luiz Henrique Alvaro, Luiz Henrique Zuniga, and those in between), it can then be decided whether one of them or LHR constitutes a primary topic, and Luiz Henrique can be converted to a Dab among the two or more, or a hat note paced on that page and Luiz Henrique (disambiguation) recreated as a Dab page; until then, this talk page will document the candidates for potential Dab'n that we know of.
--Jerzy•t 07:27, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

---

• I'm not sure i can promptly draw attention to this proposal at the proper WikiProject(s). If someone more knowledgeable can do so first, please go ahead.
  --Jerzy•t 07:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
  
• OK, i just linked from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Brazil#Brazil-specific Disambiguation page: proposed move to here. If someone thinks a soccer-related WikiProj should get a notice, that's your call.
  --Jerzy•t 08:21, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
  
• "Luís" or "Luiz" and "Henrique" are all given names; they are quite uncommon as family names. Soccer players in Brazil are rarely known for their surnames; the usual way to refer to them is either given names or nicknames. This can be seen by the external links in those people's pages, which refer to them as "Luís Henrique", and not as "Rosa" or "Koprowski". Referring to Luiz Henrique Rosa as Luiz Rosa would be uncommon (and in principle only done at the request of the named person); referring to him as Sr. Henrique Rosa would be just plainly mistaken. Referring to him as Sr. Rosa is correct but only in formal circumstances, such as him signing a contract, for instance. Please leave things as they are; they are correct and there is no need to change them. Ninguém (talk) 12:28, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose all entries on this page are "Luiz Henrique" 70.29.208.247 (talk) 05:46, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

{{subst:pollbottom Vegaswikian (talk) 18:00, 24 April 2010 (UTC)}}