Talk:Luigi Frati

Please discuss this article before making changes

Please do to the fact that this article could be a controversial topic, please discuss changes on this page here before.
Thanks Maurice Carbonaro (talk) 04:36, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't see anything in the article mentioning whatever it is that might be controversial. Also, if there's a current event, there should be news stories that can be linked here. As it is there's nothing indicating why this professor is notable and should have a Wikipedia article. —KCinDC (talk) 04:57, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Surely being elected Rector of the Sapienza University of Rome is enough to establish notability? —Ian Spackman (talk) 08:31, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Rector, in this context, is roughly (or perhaps precisely) equivalent to what in an English university would be a Vice Chancellor. —Ian Spackman (talk) 12:04, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

The controversy

Now that I have looked at the source of the page (including stuff that is commented out, and a hidden link to the article nepotism), and have read the relevant bit of the newspaper article which was used as a source for the material about the current employment of Frati’s family members, I understand what is going on. What we have currently is an article about an Italian academic which accuses him of nepotism and names three further living people as beneficiaries of that ‘corrupt’ activity: his wife, a son and a daughter (all named). That amounts to an attack on four living people: Frati is represented as improperly favouring his family, while his wife and children are implicitly represented as being insufficiently qualified for the jobs in which they are employed. The source is a polemical article on the state of Italian universities which cites Frati’s faculty as an example of the nepotism which it sees as widespread in the system: Zecchi, Stefano (23 October 2008). "E io accuso i rettori: sono i veri colpevoli". Il Giornale. p. 42. Retrieved 26 October, 2008. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)

All or any of these implicit accusations may, or may not, be true. But what you properly include in an encyclopaedia article is not always what you properly include in a polemical one. Also, for all we know Luciana Angeletti may be a highly talented historian of medicine and appointed to her post under perfectly transparent procedures. So, put yourself into her shoes reading this article…. If the issue should turn into a public scandal covered in multiple sources then that scandal should be mentioned here, along with those sources. In the mean time I think that we are giving undue weight to those accusations in the context of a short article on an Italian academic.

So what I intend to do is first clean the article up a bit and then move the (cleaned-up) section implying nepotism to this page.

—Ian Spackman (talk) 12:43, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

OK, here is the cleaned-up and explicated text which I have removed from the article. Personally I doubt whether it should be returned there, but I’ll leave that up to others to decide.

On 23 October, 2008 the newpaper Il Giornale published a polemical article on the state of the Italian university system. It cited the Faculty of Medicine as an example of what it was as pervasive nepotism, stating that Frati’s wife as well as two of their children were also employed in the Faculty. The first, Luciana Angeletti (previously a teacher of literature) was a full professor of History of Medicine; the daughter Paola (whose degree was in law) was a full professor of Medicine; the son Giacomo was an associate professor in the Latina branch of the faculty.

Ian Spackman (talk) 13:27, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Italin current controversy against public education system

Hi Ian Spackman,
thanks for contributing to wikipedia!
Yes, there is a highly volatile atmosphere right now in Italy due to student and teachers demonstratation.
Another article worth to mention is the one appeared the 24 october 2008 on the daily newspaper La Repubblica at page 35, written by Attilio Bolzoni and Emanuele Lauria.
The article is entitled:

L'inchiesta

Palermo, cento famiglie in catteda

Parentopoli nell'ateneo, padri e figli controllano le facoltà

The full article written in italian can be found herehere.
The journalists declare that 54.7% of the professors are from Palermo.
2 out of 3 professors were born in the province (of Palermo) implying like the rest of Sicily is "represented" by one third only.
I was born in Vittoria, in the province of Ragusa, I am 42 years old, and I knew allready 25 years ago of the "Palermo" atmosphere.
I had almost no chance to enter as a university teacher even if I was a paragon of virtue.
Seems like "things" haven't change much in 25 years.
You see university professors that teach mainly because of blu blood rather than international peer reviewed publications.
Right now in Italy there are school and university demonstrations (key word "protest" on google news) about the ministry of public education Mariastella Gelmini decree that wants to cut 8 billion Euro to italian public education.
Thanks for your attention!
Maurice Carbonaro (talk) 06:28, 26 October 2008 (UTC)