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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA Review

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Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Farang Rak Tham (talk · contribs) 11:54, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]


Reviewing as requested.😁

Introduction and limitations

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Before starting this review, I'd like to state that I have little knowledge on the subject. So I am reviewing this as an outsider.

Overview

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This article has obviously been a huge undertaking by someone fascinated by the subject. The main contributor and nominator has assessed the article himself at level B—this appears warranted (though normally another editor would have to do this assessment).

1. Prose:
  • No copyright violations.
  • Well-written and interesting. Reads a bit rough at times though, though not too often. Below I will do a detailed review.
2. MOS:
  • Though not required for GA, it seems a bit unusual to me that the article has no infobox.
  • What is required for GA is that external links should contain a short description (e.g. "An informative website outlining the basics ...")
3. References layout: There are some dead links, which you might want to replace, or mark as {{dead link}}. References can be identified though, as they are well-formatted. Some references such as Littell's book are not actually used in the article and had best be removed from the reference list.
4. Reliable sources: Sources are reliable.
5. Original research: None found.
6. Broadness: Yes.
7. Focus: Readable prose size is 69 kB, which is larger than usual for a Wikipedia article. Please trim certain less relevant parts of the article. Some guidelines such as WP:SPLITTING suggest a 50 kB maximum for general subject matter.
8. Neutral: Yes.
9. Stable: article is stable.
10-11. Pics: Are relevant.

Reviewee checklist

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  1. w00t
  2. Originally, I used an infobox and was a straight-laced infobox crusader. But after studying FA-quality Historic Houses articles, I decided that no infobox would look more aesthetically pleasing and fitted the context as a country palace...inside a city. Huh.
What suits you.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 20:29, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Added collapsible infobox and axed "Location." Result: Less prose, infobox. –Vami_IV✠ 08:16, 21 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
2.1. Added an External links section as mandated by the Manual of Style. –Vami_IV✠ 15:02, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
3. Dammit, I thought I got all those when I reformatted the Schloss Favorite section and rewrote the garden one. I'll post an update here when I kill or tag the remaining ones.
3.1  Done Fixed all but one of these, axed the one I couldn't. –Vami_IV✠ 07:21, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
4. Glad to hear it
5. w00t
6. Yeah, about that...
7. There will probably be a lot of fluff-shaving in this review.
Indeed.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 20:29, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
8. w00t
9. huh
10–11. But unfortunately not always of the highest quality or of interesting parts, like the Marble Hall.
10.1. I apparently goofed the syntax for that template - the caption exists now! The ending panorama was taken from the German version of the article. I thought it was too good to not use and formed a nice transitional piece of eye candy to separate prose and eye-meltingly long citation and reference section.
10.2. Thanks!
10.3. No. I will do my best to find out. The "source," the tumblr blog I got it from, posted neither.
10.4. Found it.
10.5. Ahhh crap. I'll probably just remove the picture because uploading pictures to Wikipedia/Commons scares and confuses me.

X –Vami_IV✠ 15:02, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Detailed review per section

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I will continue with a detailed review per section. Feel free to insert replies or inquiries. To keep communication to the point, you might want to use templates like  Done,  Doing...,  Not done, minus Removed, plus Added, and  Fixed. Please do not cross out my comments, as I will not yours but only my own. I will do the review of the lead mostly at the end.

Location

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  • Although the Marchbacher Straße forms the northern edge of the primary palace, Schloss Favorite lies to its north. How does this contradict?
  • The latitudinal and longitudinal location of the palace proper is 48°54′0″N 9°11′45″ECoordinates: 48°54′0″N 9°11′45″E, or 48.9, 9.195833. Redundant, already mentioned in the hat.
Right, axed. –Vami_IV✠ 04:36, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Background

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Construction

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  • Duke Eberhard Louis elected to send theologian and mathematician Philipp Joseph Jenisch ... Shouldn't this be "... elected theologian ..."?
  • Nette completed the shell of the Old Hauptbau in 1708, the galleries in 1707, ... Shouldn't this be told chronologically?
    •  Done
  • but also in the populace Split off in a separate sentence, because it is confusing.
    •  Done
  • while the Ordensbau and the Riesenbau were constructed from 1708 to 1713 ... Better stick to active voice to make clear who did what.
(This Nette guy is really a sad story, by the way.)
*  Done Amended. –Vami_IV✠ 05:46, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This does not appear to have been done? Absorbing the work of Weiss and Jenisch, the Ordensbau was constructed from 1709 to 1713 and the Riesenbau from 1712 and into the next year.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 13:03, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Done x2. Added absorbing Weiss and Jenisch's lustschloss –Vami_IV✠ 04:08, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You prefer not to use active voice?--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 14:57, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Jenisch sought to reprise his position as building director following Nette's death, but he faced competition from one of Nette's recruits. Donato Frisoni, an Italian plasterer from Laino with no formal architectural training, submitted an application for the position that was ignored by the building authority, as it was aligned with Jenisch. This is a bit confusing because it seems that Donato Frisoni is the person where one of Nette's recruits refers to. Then when the reader is at the end of this part, it seems as though Donato Frisoni was the indirect way in which Jenisch sought to reprise his position. Is that what you mean? If not, please rewrite a bit.
  • Frisoni based his plans ... Lots of and ... and ... and. Split a bit please.
    •  Done
  • Kavaliersbaut Wikilink or define inline please.
    •  Done
I don't think that would fit. I could provide a link to that subsection for ease of reading, though. –Vami_IV✠ 07:00, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 14:57, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Use as a residence

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  • dismissed the construction staff to modernize the Duchy's army and fortifications You mean replaced them?
  • on fraudulent charges of embezzlement as a retaliation against the years of competition at court. They competed with Karl Alexander?
  • The Duke's unpopular court Jew, ... How is this related to the subject of the article?
  • as he began residing ... You mean the architect?
    •  Done
  • making no more modifications to the palace from 1770 onward You mean the Ludwigsburg Palace?
    •  Done
  • The palace again relinquished its status as the Duke's residence to Stuttgart in 1775 When was the first time?
  • Well, the Duke couldn't live in two cities at the same time. Eberhard Louis spent his summers at Ludwigsburg, but he established the city as the capital of the Duchy in 1718 ("Background," last sentence of paragraph two). It remained the capital until Karl Alexander moved it back to Stuttgart in 1733, then his son Charles returned it to Ludwigsburg for another 20 or so years before ermanently establishing himself in Stuttgart in the 1770s. –Vami_IV✠ 19:09, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Later history

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  • Isn't this a subsection of the history section?
  • In 1918, after the First World War ... Sentence too long, please trim.
  • that continue to the modern day Specify time period per WP:WTW.
  • series of music festivals ... conducted anywhere from six to ten concerts Festivals don't conduct concerts, please rewrite.
  • In 1991, the decision was made as the state archives left Ludwigsburg to turn the palace as a museum complex was made because the 1959 "Höfische Baroque Art" Museum housed at the palace Cryptic, please rewrite.
  • of the group Ulm Klötzlebauer Confusing wikilink of the place, better remove and perhaps redlink the entire name.
  •  Done
  • What's Kinderreich?
  • Editz Sitzmann visited the palace to see the painting and restored piece of King Frederick I's furniture and to attend a press conference, speaking about the cultural important of Ludwigsburg Palace First of all, the grammar of the sentence is odd, especially the underlined parts. Secondly, it reads as though the furniture was restored during her visit.

Porcelain manufactory

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This section is better written than the previous section.

  • to place pressure on the Handelscompagnie You mean he set up a competing group, right?
  • who worked at the Ludwigsburg Porcelain Manufactory for 20 years ... who would work?
  •  Done
  • of Meissen's manufactory Not quite sure where this refers to.
  • Since 1780, designs had begun moving You mean in the porcelain industry, or do you refer to the manufactory?

Architecture

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How did you determine what part is history and what part is architecture? The section reads much like a history section.

I figured it was an architectural history, but it's still history. I've abbreviated that history into the new second paragraph now. –Vami_IV✠ 14:22, 24 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Okay.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 12:05, 29 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • at previous projects.[c] Try to avoid hiding citations in notes. Better show the citations inline as well.
  • An example of this influence ... Three and's in a row. Please simplify or split off.
  • The interiors are a mix of different Late Baroque influences, with illustrations by Paul Decker the Elder, Nicodemus Tessin the Elder, and Daniel Marot, whose work Duke Eberhard Louis was familiar with, that bear some resemblance to Ludwigsburg's ribbonwork (Bandlwerkstil) decor. Confusing, please simplify.
  • Neoclassical of Ludwigsburg Did you omit a word here?
  • The kitchen staff, also responsible for the lighting and heating of the palace,[2] fed the stoves and fireplaces of the palatial suites with wood brought from the Black Forest, which also warmed the servant quarters in the attic via ducts from the stoves below. Beyond thickening the windows with more glass and putting up cotton wallpaper, residents of the palace resorted to wearing thicker clothes and consuming warm drinks, primarily coffee and hot chocolate.[3] How is this relevant?--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 22:45, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Wenger 2004, pp. 9–10.
  2. ^ Ludwigsburg Palace: Alltag in der Hofküche.
  3. ^ Ludwigsburg Palace: Heizen im Schloss.

Old Hauptbau

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This section is generally well-written.

  • Just a note: that hidden staircase to a secret lover is hilarious. There's your DYK, by the way.
  • Today, Eberhard Louis's suite appears as it would have during his reign and though none of the original decor survives seem to contradict. Am I missing something?
  • Most of Donato Frisoni and Tomasso Soldati's stuccoes, depicting biblical and classical historical and mythological motifs alongside an image of Eberhard Louis and his monogram, was lost and the gallery was subdivided into offices until its restoration from 2000 to 2004. The clause in the middle is awkward, please simplify.
  •  Done
  • At the end of the Western Gallery is the Jagdpavillon ... Shorten or split off please, it is too long.
  •  Done
  • Above each of the doors are more stucco reliefs, ... Similar problem.

East wing

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  • The vestibule, designed and executed ... Sentence too long, split please.
  • The chapel is a classical ... Similar.
  •  Done
  • The denomination of the Schlosskapelle ... How does a building change a denomination?
  • (Cavaliers' Building) Please move gloss upwards to first instance of the word.
  •  Done
  • Though not relevant for GA, you should be aware that a term does not need to be wikilinked each time you mention it in the article, but just the first time. Common words like coffee, tea, wine or beer need not be wikilinked, nor do country names, per WP:OVERLINKING.

West wing

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Well-written.

  • Many sentences are quite lengthy, but the sentence Colomba painted the walls ... is a little over the top.
  •  Done
  • Johann Friedrich von Uffenbach ... Redlinked people need to be introduced, because there is no wikilink to help explain.
  •  Done
  • It was in the Order Hall that the constitutions of the Kingdom and then Free People's State of Württemberg in 1819 and 1919 respectively You missed a verb there.
  • The Festinbau, attached ... A bit too long.
  • but also meant that food arrived cold despite the small ovens along the way intended to keep it warm Less relevant.
  • The first Wiki article ever that wikilinks apple.
  • There's a lot of detail in these architecture subsections, you should start here when you begin trimming the article.

New Hauptbau

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  • Frisoni planning began ... Looks like an editing scar.
  • Over a decade later in 1747, Duke Charles Eugene resumed construction in the New Hauptbau, left incomplete after Eberhard Louis's death, and completed its interiors in Rococo The clause in the middle is confusing.
  • A vaulted passageway ... and Pilasters and windows ..., as well as Friedrich von Thouret ... and Past the conference room ... Too long sentences.
  • The Queen's staircase is a mirror ... Minerva is not really a virtue.
  •  Done
  • von Thouret's designed in September 1815 ... ... von Thouret's design?
  • installing a curved ceiling that Jean Pernaux painted the spring of 1815 Grammar is a little off, i think you are missing a preposition here.
  • the top the walls the top of the walls?
  • For the final, modest rooms of the suite, chief among the new writing room featuring Sappho in relief on a fireplace, were also remodeled in 1808–09 according to Frederick's exact instructions, which called for the division of one room into two for more fireplaces. This sentence reads a little confusing.

Grounds and gardens

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  • Main article hat is a redlink, which is highly unusual.
  • Other additions, ... and Frank approved ... Many and's in a row.
  • In the farthest east portion of the gardens is the Fairy Tale Garden German: Märchengarten The German was already given above, no need to repeat.
  • The Fairy Tale Garden faced some opposition ... Why?
  • The caption below the little garden maps is aligned to the right, which make it look isolated and floating on my screen. Shouldn't it be aligned to the left?

Schloss Favorite

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  • whose premiere Eberhard Louis had been a guest to in 1743 in Berlin. Relevance?
  • and can be reimagined even after later modifications because of Frisoni's remaining artworks Two and's in a row, and a little cryptic.

Museums

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It amazes me they actually have museums for children.

  • (German: Modemuseum) and (German: Junge Bühne) Redundant, the German was already given.
  • But now you removed them all.
  • On the ground floor of the New Hauptbau is the lapidarium ... I thought you said there were just two museums.

Lead

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  • The sentences In totality, construction cost the Duchy of Württemberg 3,000,000 florins and In 2016, the palace attracted some 330,000 visitors and brought as many as 311,000 by October 2017 should also be mentioned in the body of the text, because they can be easily integrated. The citations can then be removed.

July 2018

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I will continue my review after you have responded to most of these comments.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 13:27, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I hope you don't mind the slow speed we're going. I am just not familiar with the subject material at all.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 22:47, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Wait, this is a slow review? –Vami_IV✠ 23:33, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Lol. Well, we're over seven days.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 15:41, 24 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Having read the article, i am impressed by the efforts that you have put into this, and the ability to paint a picture of a time and age in which detail and refinement was more common than now. I have finished the detailed review. I will check your corrections and also review the lead later, once you have addressed all the comments and have trimmed the article sufficiently.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 07:58, 26 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Farang Rak Tham: I have shaved some ~2000 words from the article and done a bit of splitting. I have also addressed all your comments. Advise? –Vami_IV✠ 08:10, 28 July 2018 (
I am doing a second reading now.
  • Acting on this, I've gone and swung my ax like it was going out of style. We're sitting at 50 kB (exactly 8300 words as of time of writing). There might be a little bit left to cut, but at this point I don't think it would change much. As for links, I removed The Met and that movie guides thing in my rampage. I've fixed the Ludwigsburg Museum links (turns out they rebuilt their website), but all the other links in blue work. Except for the Finance ministry ones, as their website is currently down for maintenance. –Vami_IV✠ 18:16, 29 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

GA Progress

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Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()
3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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