Talk:Luca Guadagnino's unrealized projects

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What constitutes "unrealized"

Carrying my post from the dispute resolution board here as it wasn't the right location. @ZanderAlbatraz1145: @R.A Huston: @Nils2088:. Will also be posting to the WikiProject Film talk page.

So recently, on not just this page but other pages as well, projects that Guadagnino is still currently attached to and working on have been getting listed on this page. The assertion being that since they haven't yet entered production, it counts as unrealized. I firmly disagree. It's outlined clearly in the lead sentence that the criteria is "unproduced". Steven Spielberg's in more detail explains "never progressed beyond the pre-production stage under his direction. Some of these projects fell in "development hell" or were officially canceled, some were turned over to other production teams, and still others never made it past the speculative stage". This is to explain that those projects would not be produced, or would go ahead without them as the director. The two specific projects in question here are Sgt. Rock and American Psycho. In the case of the former, development news was issued not even a month ago. In the case of the latter, casting news was announced just yesterday. How exactly does this entail an "unrealized project"? An argument was made readers would be "hurt" by them being removed. How? The projects are currently detailed on Luca's page, both have respective draft articles that are being worked on while they wait to meet standards for mainspace inclusion, so no the reader is not being "hurt", the information can still be found in the appropriate locations. It's in essence acting like a crystal ball to include them here. For all intents and purposes Guadagnino currently plans to work on these, they are being regularly updated, they are not unrealized and thus should not be listed here. Rusted AutoParts 06:36, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi

While I do agree it's odd to add these projects in " Unrealized films" because they're in active development the alternative would create a mess in the directors' main pages, since it would mean to add all projects that are not officially cancelled. For instance, in the case of Luca Guadagnino and as of today, he has around 9 films in active development with talent attached and it's hard to catalog what's actually unproduced. For example Luca's The Lord of the Flies is officially in development as of 2023 but there's been no develoments since 2020. So I think that, for now, this is the best we got. Also, I agree this should be arbitrated at WikiProject Film main page, this could be a landmark for style guidelines Nils2088 (talk) 06:45, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we do have an upcoming subsection on Guadagnino’s main page with a few brief lines about it, I don’t feel it makes a big mess. Them being housed here however is misleading. Because “unrealized” is to mean they never came to be. Or if they did, Guadagnino’s version never did. To list two projects that are getting recent updates here as if they’re unrealized is silly. I’ll wait for two more days for a full week to pass but since this discussion has not generated anything, I’ll remove them from the page to restore status quo. Rusted AutoParts 17:21, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's now what unrealized means, it just means that, to the current date, actual production (filming) hasn't begun on the film. And it's hard to label which projects are actually death and which ones are still comming. I'd advice you to keep in the way it is until a general concensus is reached, since this not only affects this page but dozens with a similar style. Nils2088 (talk) 18:56, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is not at all the purpose of these articles, they are a catalogue of all the projects the filmmaker didn't do. As it stands Sgt. Rock and American Psycho are intended to be done. We have had updates on the project have been made in the past month. The onus is on editors to get consensus to expand the meaning of "Unrealized", as that was not was the intention of these articles was. So I will be removing Sgt. Rock and American Psycho in two days. Rusted AutoParts 19:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An intention it's not an action. You might has well remove all the projects announced in the last 5 years, as they are officially in develoment and some of them keep getting updates. And I may have missed the part where it's stated that the page for unrealized projects was for what you say it is. Keep the projects there for now and wait for what the higher ups say, otherwise you're invited to modify all the articles that break this rule Nils2088 (talk) 19:13, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"You might has well remove all the projects announced in the last 5 years" Those ones qualify for listing because nothing has come out about them in that time. It's at best a dormant project. A project with development news within a month is not dormant, not unrealized. It does not qualify for the page. This is explained in the lead sentence, more better built on on article like Spielberg's list as stated above. "never progressed beyond the pre-production stage under his direction. Some of these projects fell in "development hell" or were officially canceled, some were turned over to other production teams, and still others never made it past the speculative stage" that's the qualifier for the page. We are jumping the gun by listing projects still in a recent cycle of development here, and is dishonest. So they won't be retained unless the definition is expanded on to include stuff they're still actively working on. Rusted AutoParts 20:15, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems like we have a lot of these articles, as reflected here: Category:Lists of unrealized projects by artist. It seems like we need more than local consensus on how to handle these. I do see a couple of cases where things changed:

What comes to mind is that Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS, so if a so-called "unrealized project" is not talked about in retrospect, it has little value. If a biography about a filmmaker talks about unrealized projects in retrospect, though, these could be included, though perhaps in the filmmaker's career section is most ideal. WP:IINFO needs to apply: "To provide encyclopedic value, data should be put in context with explanations referenced to independent sources." Just a contemporary news article about a filmmaker being attached to so-and-so, with no later retrospective commentary, does not strike me as discriminate encyclopedic content to have. Perhaps we need an RFC to see if these unrealized-project articles are ever warranted, and if they are ever warranted, what should be included in them. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)}