Talk:Love

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Patriotism

Patriotism can be interpreted in itself as willing to die for one's country. The "title" patriot is given to many men who have died for their country. If a person is willing to give away his life, the most precious thing any creature can posses, he must be giving it away for something he loves (excluding suicides, but not the religous ones committed by terrorists). Be it that he dies for his country than he must certainly have done it out of love. All soldiers are patriots for example, if you just like holding a gun you could have become a policeman or a security guard. A soldier fights for his country with his life. With this I conclude that Yes, patriotism has a lot to do with love.

Battery7 (talk) 00:19, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

POV

"...something one would die for (patriotism..." I find this quite POV. Willingness to die for patriotism isn't objective at all. Unless you can find some good sources that say that a majority of the people in the world would die for patriotism, I think that the mention of patriotism should be removed in that first sentence. To me, dying for patriotism sounds extremely dreamy-USA-oriented.Ran4 17:44, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

love principles

I would like to see more information on self love not meaning narcissism, as this is a big issue particularly in the modern world where we don't all live in traditional family structures such as in the bible and many of us a self reliant and still need love (even if it is love for ourselves. Also Erich Fromm has an interesting book called the art of loving which in the end chapters outlines certain principles such as giving, activity, discipline, care, concentration etc which he believes are the principles of loving. I am really dissapointed with the dictionary definitions of love as just being affection, I'm definitely going to buy a new dictionary with a bit more depth in it. On the whole I think this article could explore the greatest human emotion, principle and drive: love more thoroughly. If god is love (in one deifinion) or perhaps to an atheist love is the greatest thing, then perhaps we can try to express the profundity of love a bit better. I agree with the above about love being a verb - this is also expressed in Fromm. However I think it's fine to use it in both a passive and active sense but a section more thoroughly exploring the active sense would be good. Although there is some information here on the priciples of love. Also when we have relationships - there's some gossip about relationships on this discussion and talk gets to being of love it might be a good idea to really explore one anothers definitions of love, because when someone leaves you because their affection or attraction for you is waning and you've got a lot more religious or committed or philisophical sense of the term and are shocked that you weren't singing the song of solomon in harmony with one another it can be very very confusing and dissapointing.

love is an amzing emotion.When in love you feel like crying yet laughing. Your heart feels funny and, your mind goes crazy. When you love someone you know. It is not a maybe thing. You know if you love someone signed: Purrin

Biology of love

The first and greatest commandment is this: "And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. And the second commandment, like it is this: You shall love your neighbor as your self. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.76.137 (talk) 00:51, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Loving someone is stepping out of your own box, and into theirs.

Love from the center of who you are, don't fake it. Make friends with nobodies; don't be the great somebody.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.76.137 (talk) 00:48, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I definitely think somewhere in there it should mention pheromones, the smell given off that like makes people feel attracted.
I would put it in myself but for some reason I can't because the "edit" button just doesnt show up for me. ??

I think something about pheromones should be mentioned. There has got to be some research on this topic. The question is: Where do we find it? (Patricia Op 21:28, 2 September 2007 (UTC))

If love is such a contraversial issue, how in the world can there be a "...leading expert in the topic of love..." ??? I think that should be changed to something like, "an anylist specializing in love" or something wierd like that68.98.201.19 04:18, 11 September 2007 (UTC)Aaron.

In my opinion, love evolved from our need to proceate, our intelligence molded our need into love. When someone willingly talks to the opposite sex, they, in at least some very small way, even one they may not be aware of, is looking for proceation. The dates, gifts, etc., are to encourage companionship, but ultimately proceation.24.118.227.213 07:29, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, love is not an emotion at all, and did not evolve. Sexual desire did arise through evolution, and impels adults of many species to procreate, but that ain't love. It is not the case that men who talk to women (or vice versa) invariably have some sexual desire, even small and unnoticed, as a motive. It is often there, indeed, and should be watched for. (In the logical sense) is a sufficient but not a necessary condition. IMHO, love is actually a driving force of evolution, and a concept lying deep at the heart of the mechanisms of creation and order. Oliver Low 17:20, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

It is true that love is not really an emotion, but rather the combination of several emotions that conflict as well as concentrate together to form what we call love. It is difficult, (sometimes impossible) to describe an emotion to someone that has not experienced it themselves. I also realize the desire to proceate is a part of love, and in many cases is a starting point to a relationship that ultimately becomes love. The desires of companionship, family etc. also contribute to this effect. I suppose that love can be a driving force for evolution unto itself, but I also believe that evolution had a hand in creating love; this, of course, creates a cycle of sorts.24.118.227.213 07:02, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Lovelessness?

Is there any definition for "loveless" people or unability to "fall in love"? And what to do about people who don't know how is it to "fall in love"?

Loveless people are people who have never experiences God's love. you can't be loveless if you've felt His prescence! :)

^^^That's way too subjective to take into account. And it's just not true - There are obviously some people out there who may be very pious and god-loving, who still feel lonely due to a lack of physical companionship. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.235.121.189 (talk) 04:29, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

First Line

Love is a constellation? How about range or variety, or something else so long as it's not constellation. Unusual Cheese 14:44, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Give us a few more ideas. (Patricia Op 23:15, 31 August 2007 (UTC))

>>>Love is when you feel surrounded by that person all the time, even if they're not anywhere near you. You notice that the smallest things, such as a song or ring, remind you of your 'love' with that person. It's NOT some wordly, one-night stand sort of thing that people now claim is 'love.' Love is pure, Godly, and wonderful. It's not something to be destroyed.<<< **StEf**

"Love is a constellation of emotions and experiences related to a sense of strong affection or profound oneness"? I thought this was vandalism and I was about to revert it. A.Z. 04:51, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I like constellation, it makes sense as a metaphor for the meaning of love, there experiences are like stars that create only together create. I can perfectly understand that someone does not agree with this, what I would not understand is a definition of love without at least some basic use of universal poetry.Elmedio 05:28, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

But... we're not a poem, we're an encyclopedia. What is universal poetry? A.Z. 01:07, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree completely. Unless someone can give a good reason to keep it as it is, which may or may not be appropriate, I'll change it to something that everyone can understand. The problem with using constellation is that we want to keep Wikipedia as accessible to everyone as is possible, and using the words constellation may confuse any non-English readers, who may or may not appreciate the metaphor. Also, I think that using the word constellation falls into WP:POV.----JamesSugrono^U|C 00:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Surrendered Wives

Perhaps this "see also" was deleted too hastily by Icarus3. I looked it up and it looked legitimate to me. Taquito1 01:34, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Opening Paragraph

Hey Guys: I am a relatively new user to Wikipedia, I was going through this article which opens with such a beautiful line. Based upon what I understand of karma, I could not make sense of the use of this term in the following sentence which is in first paragraph: "Though often linked to personal relations, love is often given a broader signification, a love of humanity, of nature, with life itself, or a oneness with the Universe, a universal love or karma." Does anyone has any idea? I think "or karma" should be taken out of this sentence.

After reading up the entire article, I never knew there were so many types of love :). My understanding of this word has been changing or evolving as well. I would like to put those here if its ok, but perhaps at a different time, as its way too late now. Duty2love 05:29, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

"Love" is overworked and needs help

“Love” Is Overworked And Needs Help

English, with more words than any other language, is a treasure beyond measure but the word “love” is used for concepts that are seemingly related but can be very different. This shortcoming leads many to confuse what some consider the loftiest of concepts, with some of our most mundane feeling and actions. “Love” is used to express both pleasurable feelings and conscious, thoughtful rational decision-based acceptance.

It is a truism to say that we are never, as humans, without feeling some emotion and equally true that we seldom function with out the use of our intellect. This “Love” word can express our mood when we are have a passion for a person, cause or thing, or when we are charmed, amused or simply enjoying. However this type of “Love” is far from consciously thinking about, deciding and adopting a personal policy or worldview that we understand, appreciate, laud and honor. “Love” of God, country, a philosophy, a worldview, or of beauty, order, science or art, can, and I think should, be based on rational thought.

Compare the kind of love felt for a potential spouse during courtship and the kind of love one feels after fifty years of marriage. I suspect that in most cases the former is highly emotionally charged and the latter devotion is more likely to be based on appreciation and commitment. Another example might be the found in the recently published personal papers of Mother Teresa where she described her lifetime relationship with God. She tells of her passion when first becoming a bride of Christ and then how she felt abandoned by God during her lifetime of doing charitable works. The point is she kept on doing what she was committed to do despite the loss of emotional joy. Both are based on “love” but one is more emotion and the other more a decision of the will.

Other languages may have different words for our different uses of “Love.” I don’t know. I do know that the ancient Greeks made a distinction between Eros (sexual desires and passion), Philia (friendship) and Agape (general attraction). Early Christian writers used agape to mean self sacrificing, Christ-like love. I suppose if we all used “I like” and “I love” to make the distinction in question, it might solve the problem of the overworked “love” word. However, considering the widespread practice of using “I love” for everything from a new hairstyle to an acceptance of a religious or political creed makes this a hard sell. My suggestion would be to continue using ”love” for positive emotion induced views and adopt a new word such as “crace” (an anagram representing conscious, rational, acceptance, commitment and ethics, that flow from the viewpoint) for one’s religion, philosophy, belief system, or ideology.

What is your opinion on this matter? If you agree that we need a new word, what do you suggest?

Dantagliere 20:54, 24 September 2007 (UTC)Dan Tagliere September 24, 2007 dantagliere@aol.com

Was all of this necessary? I will tackle each of your issues, one by one, if at all possible. Upon closer inspection, I don't beleive I will. But I don't believe that the word love is overworked - the meaning can be inferred from the context in which it is used. When someone says that they love my new hair, I realise that its either sarcastic, or simply a compliment. I don't think that anyone would confuse it with actual passion for my hair. And also, in response to your indication of those Greek terms, do we not have words for "friendship", "attraction", and "sexual desires"? To reiterate - we have words for different types of love, and the verb 'love' must always be taken within the context in which it is said. By the way, Wikipedia, is not a soapbox! This extends to talk pages.----JamesSugrono^U|C 02:05, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

"trimming" see also

I think we have some trimming on autopilot. I may agree with some of the deletions from the list as less relevant. However, only very few of them. I notice reverence makes it, but romanticism doesn't. So I think we need to re-evaluate here! It's only the "see also" section so it's not very important to do trimming there. It is understood that these articles may be relevant enough to be of interest, but not enough to be mentioned in the article. However, some of these "see also" deletions are perfectly suitable for future inclusion in the article if good context can be drafted. Greg Bard 07:02, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Opening Para (contd.)

I saw no response on this question about removing the words "or karma". I assuming no one has any objection taking it out. I will give a day or two and then take it out. Duty2love 00:14, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Talkheader

Please do not remove the {{talkheader}} template from the top of the page. This article talk page has the potential to, and has in the past, veered off-topic, or into non-contributing rants about how people feel about love. I accept that people will have strong feelings about this topic, however, this is not the place to talk about them. This is a talk page for discussing improvements to the article, not general talk about the article's subject. This talkheader template is the first step to improving this high-importance article.----JamesSugrono^U|C 07:37, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

"Lovebot"

Somebody needs to make a bot that scans just this article for revisions that add text of the format "<surname> loves <surname>," and then automatically reverts it. Seriously, I think it might actually work! Now if only I knew anything about writing Wiki bots... --21:03, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

But doing that is so cute (if it is meant as a declaration of love, I mean). a.z. 04:28, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Semi-Protection

I'd recently requested protection - apparently, it had been un-protected on the 2nd, by Royalguard11 (apparently, this protection needs to stay), so it was really re-protection. This was granted, as on the request for protection, because in the few days following, over 50 vandalism-related edits were made, which really is unacceptable. I would very much like it, therefore, that any discussion related to unprotection be started here first. This is not for my personal satisfaction, but rather to centralise any discussion. In addition, it would be best for people actually editing the article to reach a consensus on any unprotection action that would be taken. I probably wouldn't support unprotection, just from the heavy vandalism that occurred in the brief unprotected period of time. But if circumstances change, we can discuss unprotection. It's completely fine if you don't wish to discuss it here first, you can go straight to the requests for page protection if you want to. Thank you in advance.James Sugrono_{Contributions} 11:46, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

societyoflove

I agree that semi-protection should remain indefinitely. This is perhaps one of the most important articles in relation to it's potential effect on people's lives and thought. Precisley because love is such a central matter to pretty much all religions, this article is not the place for soap-box preaching. It's of great importance that the article present the various understandings of 'love' from various religious and philosophical traditions in as clear and scholarly manner as possible. Oliver Low 17:12, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I ask that all requests made by practitioners of these religions have the love and universal principle are rediredionados to enhance the society of love. Largest religions or belief systems by number of adherents This listing[a] includes both organized religions, which have unified belief codes and religious hierarchies, and informal religions, such as Chinese folk religions. For completeness, it also contains a category for the non-religious, although their views would not ordinarily be considered a religion. 1. Christianity: 2.1 billion (Began: ca. 27 AD/CE), with major branches as follows: • See also the List of Christian denominations by number of members and List of Christian denominations pages (Non-denominational statistics are not shown.) 2. Roman Catholic Church: 1.05 billion 3. Eastern Orthodox Church: 240 million 4. African Initiated Church: 110 million 5. Pentecostalism: 105 million 6. Reformed/Presbyterian/Congregational/United: 75 million 7. Anglicanism/Episcopal Church: 73 million 8. Baptist: 70 million 9. Methodism: 70 million 10. Lutheran: 64 million 11. Jehovah's Witnesses: 14.8 million 12. Latter-day Saints: 13.5 million 13. Adventists: 12 million 14. Apostolic/New Apostolic: 10 million 15. Stone-Campbell Restoration Movement: 5.4 million 16. New Thought (Unity, Christian Science, etc.): 1.5 million 17. Brethren (incl. Plymouth): 1.5 million 18. Mennonite: 1.25 million 19. Friends/Quakers: 300,000 20. Islam: 1.5 billion (Began: ca. 610 AD/CE), with major branches as follows:[d] • Sunni: 940 million 21. Shia: 120 million 22. Ahmadi: 10 million 23. Druze: 450,000 24. Secular/irreligious/agnostic/atheist/antitheistic/antireligious: 1.1 billion (Began: Prehistory) • Category includes a wide range of beliefs, without specifically adhering to a religion or sometimes specifically against dogmatic religions. The category includes humanism, deism, pantheism, rationalism, freethought, agnosticism, and atheism. Broadly labeled humanism, this group of non religious people are third largest in the world. For more information, see the Adherents.com discussion of this category and the note below. [c] 25. Hinduism: 900 million (Began: approximately 1500 BC/BCE or 15th century BC/BCE however some aspects of it trace its history to 2600 BC/BCE or 26th century BC/BCE), with major branches as follows: • Vaishnavism: 580 million 26. Shaivism: 220 million 27. Neo-Hindus and Reform Hindus: 22 million 28. Veerashaivas/Lingayats: 10 million 29. Chinese folk religion: 394 million • Not a single organized religion, includes elements of Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism and traditional nonscriptural religious observance (also called "Chinese traditional religion"). 30. Buddhism: 376 million (Began: 6th century BC/BCE), with major branches as follows: • Mahayana: 185 million 31. Theravada: 124 million 32. Vajrayana/Tibetan: 20 million 33. Primal indigenous (tribal religions): 300 million • Not a single organized religion, includes a wide range of traditional or tribal religions, including animism, shamanism and paganism. Since African traditional and diasporic religions are counted separately in this list, most of the remaining people counted in this group are in Asia. 34. African traditional and diasporic: 100 million • Not a single organized religion, this includes several traditional African beliefs and philosophies such as those of the Yoruba, Ewe (vodun) and the Bakongo. These three religious traditions (especially that of the Yoruba) have been very influential to the diasporic beliefs of the Americas such as condomble, santeria and voodoo. The religious capital of the Yoruba religion is at Ile Ife. 35. Sikhism: 23 million (Began: 1500s AD/CE) 36. Spiritism: 15 million (Began: mid-19th century AD/CE) • Not a single organized religion, includes a variety of beliefs including some forms of Umbanda. 37. Judaism: 14 million (Began: 13th century BC/BCE), with major branches as follows: • Conservative: 4.5 million 38. Unaffiliated and Secular: 4.5 million 39. Reform: 3.75 million 40. Orthodox: 2 million 41. Reconstructionist: 150,000 42. Bahá'í Faith: 7 million (Began: 19th century AD/CE) 43. Jainism: 4.2 million (Began: 6th century BC/BCE), with major branches as follows: • Svetambara: 4 million 44. Sthanakvasi: 750,000 45. Digambar: 155,000 46. Shinto: 4 million (Began: 300 BC/BCE) • This number states the number of actual self-identifying practising primary followers of Shinto; if everyone were included who is considered Shinto by some people due to ethnic or historical categorizations, the number would be considerably higher — as high as 100 million (according to the adherents.com source used for the statistics in this section). 47. Cao Dai: 4 million (Began: 1926 AD/CE) 48. Falun Gong: official post-crackdown figure as stated by Chinese Communist Party: 2.1 million; Chinese government pre-crackdown figure as reported by New York Times: 70-100 million; practitioners and founder of Falun Gong, Li Hongzhi, often refer to 100 million[b] (Founded: 1992 AD/CE) • Not necessarily considered a religion by adherents or outside observers. No membership or rosters, thus the actual figure of practitioners is impossible to confirm. 49. Tenrikyo: 2 million (Began: 1838 AD/CE) 50. Neopaganism: 1 million (Began: 20th century AD/CE) • A blanket term for several religions like Wicca, Asatru, Neo-druidism, and polytheistic reconstructionist religions 51. Unitarian Universalism: 800,000 (Began: 1961 AD/CE, however, prior to the merger the separate doctrines of Unitarianism and Universalism trace their roots to the 16th and 1st centuries AD/CE respectively) 52. Rastafari: 600,000 (Began: early 1930s AD/CE) 53. Scientology: 500,000 (Began: 1952 AD/CE) 54. Zoroastrianism: "at most 200,000"[9][10][e] with major communities as follows: • In India (the Parsis): est. 65,000 (2001 India Census: 69,601); Estimate of Zoroastrians of Indian origin: 100,000-110,000. 55. In Iran: est. 20,000 (1974 Iran Census: 21,400) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.25.92.88 (talk) 19:52, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

excision of Religious Love section near the top

I excised this:

Whether religious love can be expressed in similar terms to interpersonal love is a matter for philosophical debate. Religious 'love' may be considered a euphemistic term, more closely describing feelings of deference or acquiescence. Most religions use the term love to express the devotion the follower has to their deity, who may be a living guru or religious teacher. This love can be expressed by prayer, service, good deeds, and personal sacrifice. Reciprocally, the followers may believe that the deity loves the followers and all of creation. Some traditions encourage the development of passionate love in the believer for the deity.

The reason is because I thought it liable to give the wrong impression to the student.

"Whether religious love can be expressed in similar terms to interpersonal love" is not a matter of philosophical debate. IT has been done, and that it can be is not in doubt. How it may been done rightly, is a matter of debate.

"Most religions use the term love to express the devotion the follower has to their deity" is simply false, since it's not true at least of Christianity and Islam.

The paragpraph all in all is vague and non-committal and doesn't say much, so I thought it better to leave the heading as a reminder to the casual student of the imporatance of love to religion, but leave the details to the section dealing with them.

My own belief is that love is love, whether we're talking about my love for my wife, or my country, or my friends, or God, it's the same thing, with various other emotions variously involved, however wikipedia is not a soap box for personal views (except talk pages) :-) Oliver Low 17:03, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

More info?

I think this should be one of the more worked articles! It lacks pictures, possibly a painting or two might help? And is there a section on love for a family? I didn't read all of it, but I only saw "Love for a friend". Maybe someone should put in a few more internal links, too.

Needs a better image

The image at the top is too hard to understand. You have to click on it even to see the couple kissing. Somebody should find a better one. Lou Sander 15:47, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Why, that's a good painting. Maybe it needs resizing. Gantuya eng (talk) 10:53, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Introduction

"According to philosophers, the only goal of life is to be happy. And there is only one happiness in life: to love and be loved. Love is essentially an abstract concept, much easier to experience than to explain."

Which philosophers? What authority are they on life? And finally who says that love is the only happiness in life? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.215.114.140 (talk) 18:01, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Diagnostics of Karma

I removed this sentence that expresses a minority POV from the lede, intending to reinsert it somewhere else in the article:

• Some parapsychologists have claimed that love is the true basis of all existence, originating time, space and matter.<ref>[[Diagnostics of Karma]]</ref>

However, I couldn't find anywhere appropriate to put it, so I'm leaving it here for now.  —SMALLJIM  16:41, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Missing 'Desire' on "EMOTIONS - BASIC" right sidebar

There is a righthand sidebar labeled "EMOTIONS" Under the "BASIC" category is "DISGUST", but lacking the opposite emotion. I suggest using "DESIRE" as basic term. Then under the "OTHER" category, perhaps "LUST"? 60.234.240.242 (talk) 20:20, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I Removed the God and Patriotism

The sentence in the opening paragraph read: "One definition attempting to be universally applicable is Thomas Jay Oord's: to love is to act intentionally, in sympathetic response to others(including God), to promote overall well-being. This definition applies to the positive connotations of love."

I don't think it's necessary for the opening paragraph of this article to say that people are attempting to make loving God universally applicable. It really has no business being in the article, as it seems to be vandalism.

Also, the opening sentence read:

"The word love has many different meanings in English, from something that gives a little pleasure ("I loved that meal") to something one would die for (patriotism, family)."

I changed the word patriotism to ideals, because I feel it's more appropriate/neutral. I suspect it was probably the same vandal who put in the "God" remarks. Jiminezwaldorf (talk) 08:31, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

'''''LOVE IS WHEN YOU DO IT'''''