Talk:Lodi (Pashtun tribe)

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Families and Individuals claiming descent from the Lodi

I recently removed the unnecessary mention of the Prithimpassa family in the top of the page as (alleged) descendants of this tribe. Countless individuals and families claim descent from the Lodi tribe due to many branches of the tribe settling throughout the subcontinent in the past. I don't see the reason why one family has to be specifically singled out and that too in the top of the page. It would occupy more than 90% of the page if we were to mention all of these families and individuals who claim such descent. For such information, I have created the Claimed descend from the Lodi tribe page. It's currently in draft. For those interested in such things, please work on it and submit it for review. Once the page is in the main namespace, link to it from here in the 'see also' section.

Untitled

This statement that Lodhis are probably a sub-group of Ghilji is wrong. The Ghilzai(Ghilji/Ghalji) are the kindred tribe of the Lodhis. The Ghilji are descendants of the eldest son, of Shah Hussein of Ghor and Bibi Mato, called Ghilji. The Lodhis are the descendants of the younger son, Ibrahim Loae. The Ghilji represent the western house of Mati and the Lodhi represent the eastern house of Mati. Together, they are called by their metronymic, the Matizai, which is rare in Afghan tribal culture.

Additionally, the Ghilji are not Khilji Turks,or descended therefrom. This is supposition on the part of the author. It derives from the mystery of the Khilji, a people described as allied to the Afghans during the latter's invasion of India and of residing in the area of Ghazni during the time of Sultan Mahmud of Ghazni. Ironically, today the Ghilji reside in that same area but they spread into the area, as they are famously part-time nomads, especially before modern borders were fixed, and used to travel in the winter as far as Calcutta. Also, most tribes of Turkish or 'Turco-Mongol' descent are proud of the fact and would not deny it if it were true e.g the Turi Turco-Mongol tribe of Pakistan's tribal areas, the Karlugh Turks of Hazara division or the Qizilbash Turks of Lahore.

Both the Ghilji and the Lodhi share the tribal heritage of descent from Shah Hussein, a Ghorid prince who left the petty kingdoms of his Ghorid homeland of Ghor and Bamiyan in search of spiritual growth. Thus, they are both descended from House of Ghor. The Ghorids were the rulers of the central massif of Afghanistan for hundreds of years till their destruction during the Mongol advance of Genghis Khan and were deemed to be descended from a ruler of Iran. Neither tribe of Ghilji or Lodhi has facial markers of Turkic/Mongol descent (wide set narrow eyes, flat facial features, brachycephalic heads). Rather, they have a surprising degree of variation in features, from Aryan to Semitic, similar to many Afghan tribes.

Please do not insist on this fable of Turkish descent. It is unsupported by books and by the tribal heritage of the people themselves. At the very least, let us obtain a neutral POV on the matter. --Ahmadzai

I do not know if this is a comments page or not but I am assuming it is. The information for Lodhi needs correcting:

"Lodhi (also sometimes Lodi) is a Pashtun tribe" - it is an Afghan tribe, of the Mati sub-branch (matrilineal) of the Sheikh Beit division (one of 4 major divisions of Afghans. Patrilineal descent is from Shah Hussein of Ghor, a descendant of the Shansabani kings of Ghor (a mountainous region in central Afghanistan).

"...most likely a sub-group of the larger Ghilzai of Afghanistan" - Lodhis are not a sub-group of Ghilji - they are fraternal tribes.

There were 2 sons - the elder was Ghilji from whom a tribal nation of the same name descends, and there was the younger, Ibrahim, surnamed 'Loë' (i.e. great) on account of obtaining the blessings of his grandfather, Sheikh Beit, an Afghan patriarch and sage. Ibrahim Loë's descendants are called Lodhis (i.e. translated literally, 'the great ones').

Certain tribes have grown so big that they no longer keep the tribal name Lodhi, but rather the sub-tribal name i.e. Lohani, Marwat (basically a sub- sub- tribe of Lohani), Suri (Sher Shah's tribe), Dotani, Niazi

"Members of this tribe established the Lodi dynasty, which ruled over the Delhi Sultanate and included the prominent ruler Ibrahim Lodi." - Additionally, a Lodhi from the small sub-tribe called Suri went on to challenge and wrest the throne of India from the Mughals, so that for 25 years, the throne of India was in the hands of Afghans. This man was King Sher Shah Suri.

"The Lodhi family name is common amongst the Pashtuns." - it is not a common name; it is unique to the descendants of Ibrahim Loë.

Lodhiana (district of Indian Punjab) - named after the Lodhis who settled in large numbers in the Punjab and later shifted to Pakistan.

I have added more to the second section of the topic.

Mayurkirti

Reverted edits

I have reverted edits made by an IP. The IP added information related to the Lodi/Lodhi Rajputs which is totally irrelevant since the article is about the Pashtun Lodi tribe "Lodi (Pashtun tribe)". (Ketabtoon (talk) 20:40, 1 November 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Irrlevant nonsense

"Their origin is unclear. Some Pashtun tribes claim descent from Arabs, including some claiming to be descendants of the Islamic prophet Muhammad (referred to as Sayyids). Some groups believe to be descended from Ancient Greeks that arrived with Alexander the Great. One conflicting issue in the belief that the Pashtuns descend from the Israelites is that the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel were exiled by the ruler of Assyria, while Maghzan-e-Afghani says they were permitted by the ruler to go east to present western Pakistan and eastern Afghanistan. Pashtun Jews largely relocated to Israel."

I removed this part because it is irrelevant to the origins of the Lodi and seems like someones farfetched POV. Akmal94 (talk) 20:17, 16 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Bettani not ghilzai

I corrected this article which stated lodhis are a subtribe of ghilzai when both are actually subtribe of bettani super tribe Ozgharzai (talk) 06:06, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's Tatur, not Tatar.

The Tatur (also known as Tator/Tatoor) tribe among the Lodi was erroneously mentioned as and linked to Tatar, which is a completely separate ethnic group than the Pashtuns. I have corrected it again after my previous correction was reverted back.

To avoid this confusion in the future, I have also created a separate page for the Tatur tribe but it's currently in draft. Historyandshit (talk) 02:52, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]