Jump to content

Talk:Lodger (album)/GA1

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GA Review

[edit]
GA toolbox
Reviewing

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 06:03, 19 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()
3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

I will review this like you so wished for! --K. Peake 06:03, 19 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox and lead

[edit]
  • Remove venue parameter from the infobox, as that is for live recordings
  • It's just excess code but sure
  • Replace hlist with bullet points
  • No need to, creates the same thing
  • "For short horizontal lists of two or three items, comma separators are acceptable, but for longer lists the use of the class=hlist is preferred as it offers a benefit to users of screen readers" --K. Peake 08:18, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "released on 25 May 1979" → "It was released on 25 May 1979"
  • Not necessary
  • "Lodger was recorded mostly" → "the album was recorded mostly"
  • No, since the word 'album' is used eight words prior
  • That is true, but this is an entirely different sentence from that one and there's already been a comma in it, plus you've used "the album" zero times in this para. --K. Peake 19:40, 19 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "joining from the tour." → "joining from a tour." since otherwise it sounds like you are referring to Bowie's tour
  • What do you mean? I am...
  • The examples that follow the cards aren't sourced as being techniques inspired by them; they are mentioned in the prior para within the body
  • I'll be damned you're right it does appear that way. I rewrote two paras in body to match (the cards actually did inspire these methods)
  • "After the tour," → "After the Isolar II world tour,"
  • Not necessary, the reader's not going to forget what tour what it was
  • Done
  • Sure
  • "Lodger is divided into" → "the album is divided into"
  • Done
  • "took the album's cover photo," → "took the accompanying cover photo,"
  • Done
  • "peaking at No. 4" → "peaking at number four" per MOS:NUM
  • "and No. 20 on" → "and number 20 on"
  • I kept it as "No." and not changed it to "number" as that's what it was when I started expanding. Using this method, it makes more sense to keep it as "No. 4" and "No. 20" for consistency.
  • Done
  • "including the top 10 hit" → "including the UK top 10 hit"
  • Done
  • That was worded that way by the copy-editor so it's fine as is
  • "Lodger initially received mixed reviews from music critics, with many calling it the weakest" → "The album received mixed reviews from contemporary music critics, being viewed by many as the weakest" because "contemporary" is the better wording on an encyclopaedia
  • "over the years, and it is" → "over the year and it is" since the article is in British English
  • Done
  • "Many have highlighted its use" → "Some have highlighted the use" since that is more accurate
  • Sure
  • "with the album's original" → "with Lodger's original"
  • No need
  • Remove target on mix
  • Done
  • "remixed the album (with Bowie's approval) for inclusion on the 2017 box set" → "remixed the album to the approval of Bowie for inclusion on the 2017 box set,"
  • That's way worse

Background

[edit]
  • Retitle to Background and development
  • I don't find that necessary
  • "Bowie moved to Switzerland with his wife Angela" → "David moved to Switzerland with his wife Angela Bowie" per MOS:SAMESURNAME
  • "He moved to" → "David Bowie moved to"
  • Restating his name here would be dumb. Added David to the first sentence, as that still works for MOS:SAMESURNAME.
  • "There the pair recorded" → "There, the two recorded" since "pair" makes it sound kind of like they were a couple
  • Agreed, changed
  • Add release year of The Idiot in brackets
  • Done, they did so much that year lol
  • We're still talking about '76 at this point; that's the year they met, as both Low and The Idiot were recorded that year
  • "The first instalment, Low, was recorded" → "The first instalment, Bowie's 11th studio album Low, was recorded"
  • Done
  • "beginning in September 1976 and continued through November," → "from September to November of 1976," to be less wordy
  • Done, much better
  • "following Bowie and Pop's move" → "following Bowie and Iggy Pop's relocation" since that is not his stage name
  • "Bowie toured as Pop's" → "Bowie toured as Iggy Pop's"
  • He is referred to as Pop throughout his main article, so the same can be applied here
  • I beg to differ, as that being his main article is an exception since it would be tedious to constantly write the full name though here he's only mentioned a few times. --K. Peake 19:40, 19 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just because it's his main article doesn't make it an "exception". Artists like Lady Gaga are referenced throughout WP as just Gaga so Pop would be no exception. – zmbro (talk) 21:07, 19 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Bowie and Pop returned to" → "the two of them returned to"
  • Changed to just "the two"
  • "Pop's next solo album" → "Pop's next studio album" and it is acceptable not writing the full stage name when it was mentioned so recently
  • I used solo because before this, he was a member of the Stooges.
  • Add release year of the album in brackets
  • Done
  • "in April and May 1977." → "from April to May of 1977."
  • Done, but using "of" is excessive
  • "Visconti and Eno, "Heroes"," → "Visconti and Eno, his 12th studio album "Heroes","
  • Done
  • Add release year of the composition in brackets
  • The special aired in 1977, but that song went available until it was released as a single in 1982; it's release year is not that relevant to this album. The point of this para is to show how much Bowie actually did from 76–77.
  • "released as an album" → "which he released as an album under the same name" but maybe reword slightly, as this adds quite a few bits before the title of the composition
  • It's fine the way it is

Recording and production

[edit]
  • "in September 1978." → "during September 1978." to avoid overusing "in" and because the break wasn't for the entirety of the month anyway
  • Good idea. Fixed.
  • "of Bowie's Berlin Trilogy," → "of the Berlin Trilogy,"
  • Done
  • "in Switzerland was very different from that in Berlin. The studio" → "in Montreux was very different from that in Berlin; the studio" because you should compare two cities, not a country and a city plus the sentences can be merged since they are small as well as of relevance to each other
  • I see what you mean. Fixed
  • Shouldn't [19] be solely at the end of the sentence?
  • So Buckley talks about Hansa when discussing "Heroes" but doesn't mention Mountain until 20 pages later, hence the split. Would it be smarter to just add the page from ref 19 to ref 20?
  • Wikilink acoustics but if this is an opinion expressed by someone, attribute it to them
  • Done, it's not
  • Img looks good!
  • Does previous records refer to those of the Berlin Trilogy? If so, then mention that.
  • "Belew's future bandmate" → "Belew's eventual bandmate" to avoid overusing "future"
  • Smart, fixed.
  • "work on the album" → "work on Lodger" since "Heroes" was the most recently mentioned album
  • Good point, fixed
  • These are excess links that don't add anything to the page
  • "instruments (Alomar and Davis did so on "Boys Keep Swinging")." → "instruments, as Alomar and Davis did on "Boys Keep Swinging"."
  • Done
  • "and "Red Sails" were" → "and "Red Sails", were"
  • Done
  • "these cards were" → "the cards were"
  • Fine as is
  • Sure, but only because I linked Monopoly
  • "used these cards previously" → "used them previously"
  • Done
  • [29][28] should be put in numerical order
  • Fixed
  • "during the sessions than" → "during the sessions than those for"
  • Done
  • What band are you referring to? Please specify.
  • The backing band
  • "only six of the album's ten tracks." → "only six of the 10 tracks on Lodger." per MOS:NUM
  • Consistency. And MOS:NUM doesn't state numbers after 10 HAVE to be numbered instead of typed
  • "out" by Lodger," → "out" with the album,"
  • We're talking about a trilogy, so specifying which album makes sense than not
  • "The sessions at Mountain" → "The sessions at Mountain Studios"
  • That's unnecessary
  • "At its conclusion," specify whether this means the conclusion of the Mountain sessions or the tour
  • Done (was the tour)
  • "at the Record Plant in New York City in March 1979," → "at the Record Plant in March 1979,"
  • This is the first mention of NYC...
  • "his lyrics, instrumental overdubs and began" → "his lyrics and instrumental overdubs, as well as beginning" since there are only two parts he recorded
  • Changed to "where he recorded his lyrics and instrumental overdubs, and began"
  • Sure
  • Why? No need
  • "decided Davis's original" → "decided Davis' original"
  • I never know which is right. But I think the way it is now is correct
  • "was unsuitable. Work was" → "was unsuitable; work was" since the second sentence gives the conclusion to the other one and it is too short
  • Done

Musical style

[edit]
  • [2] does not mention the predecessors as being those rock genres that are mentioned later on in the sentence; see WP:STICKTOSOURCE
  • Removed.
  • The albums ranking for Bowie by COS having the genres as tags does not source them, as the website generally include tags based on the performer's genre(s)
  • The two CoS ones give the genres in the body. The links were also wrong but these have been updated
  • Added one that uses both ambient and electronic
  • [2] should be solely at the end of the sentence
  • Fixed
  • "considers Lodger to be" → "considered Lodger to be" since the quote is sourced from a website
  • Done
  • "Belew similarly describes" parts like this are confusing to me; for quotes by musicians from books, you should use only one tense for consistency and I only noted them because you have been consistent for biographers
  • Done
  • "considered it a forerunner" → "considered the album a forerunner"
  • Done
  • "writes that Lodger" → "wrote that Lodger"
  • Done
  • "found Lodger to be" → "found the album to be" to avoid writing the title too much
  • I agree, but since the sentence is talking about the entire trilogy, it makes sense to mention the title here
  • "finding elements of" → "observing elements of"
  • Done
  • [46] should be solely at the end of the sentence after [44]
  • Done
  • Bowie wrote "All the Young Dudes" for another band, Mott the Hoople, who released it in 1972. He recorded his own (inferior) version that wasn't released until the 90s so would "earlier hit" apply here? Feels like it doesn't
  • [50] should be solely at the end of the sentence in-between [37] and [51]
  • Done
  • "Wawzenek highlights "DJ"" → "Wawzenek highlighted "DJ""
  • Done
  • "while Ned Raggett calls it" → "while Ned Raggett of AllMusic called it"
  • Done
  • "while John Lennon's rhythm guitar work" what are you trying to say here? Reword or remove since it does not make grammatical sense in the sentence.
  • Reworded
  • "Commentators have found "Boys Keep Swinging"" → "Commentators found "Boys Keep Swinging""
  • Done
  • Remove glam rock elements mention per WP:STICKTOSOURCE; AllMusic does not say the song is part of his glam run
  • AllMusic doesn't but Quietus does
  • "that's described by" → "that is described by"
  • Done

Lyrics and themes

[edit]
  • "travel (primarily side one) and critiques of Western civilisation (primarily side two)." → "travel and critiques of Western civilisation primarily on sides one and two, respectively." to avoid repetitive wording with the lead
  • Done
  • "Because of this, Mastropolo views" → "Because of this, Mastropolo viewed"
  • Done
  • Bringing something like that into this is entirely unnecessary
  • "took with the lyrics." → "took for the lyrics."
  • Done
  • "highlighting the lyric," → "highlighting the line,"
  • Done
  • Remove wikilink on Kenya
  • Sure
  • Done
  • "along with trips to" → "along with ones to"
  • Done
  • "Doggett quipped, "After" → "Doggett quips, "After"
  • Done
  • Done
  • Are you sure long live shouldn't be surrounded by double quotation marks instead?
  • I thought so too but I believe the sources I have just use one one both sides
  • ""Yassassin" is about" → "the song is about"
  • Done
  • "although here the lyrics are" → "although its lyrics are"
  • Done
  • "two critique primarily" → "two primarily critique"
  • Done
  • "Here, the DJ" → "On the song, the DJ"
  • Done
  • "Swiftly compared to" – I don't really think this is the correct wording to start the sentence
  • What is then?
  • Add release year of "Radio Radio" in brackets
  • Sure
  • "described the song as" → "describes the song as"
  • Done

Artwork

[edit]
  • "on the cover design with" → "on the cover design for Lodger with"
  • Done
  • "design the artwork for" → "design the artwork for Bowie's 15th studio album"
  • Sure
  • "in Duffy's London studio," → "at Duffy's London studio,"
  • Done
  • "while Duffy captured" → "while the photographer captured"
  • Done
  • "to incorporate it" → "to incorporate the hand"
  • Done
  • No reason to
  • "enhancing the album's theme" → "enhancing its theme"
  • Done
  • Done
  • Sure

Release and promotion

[edit]
  • Unnecessary
  • Done
  • "although the promo" → "although the former"
  • Done
  • Done
  • Done
  • "released Lodger 25 May 1979," → "released Lodger on 25 May 1979,"
  • Done, wonder how that happened
  • "with the catalogue number" → "with catalogue number"
  • No that doesn't make sense
  • "making it the longest gap" → "marking the longest gap"
  • Done
  • Mention that Space Oddity is his second studio album
  • Done
  • Fixed
  • "on his prior Berlin releases," → "on Bowie's prior releases of the Berlin Trilogy,"
  • Done
  • "peaking at No. 4 on" → "peaking at number four on"
  • Done
  • "peaked at No. 20" → "peaked at number 20"
  • Done
  • "by Numan, who had No. 1 hits" → "by Gray Numan, who had number one hits"
  • Done
  • "lasting for years." → "that lasted for years."
  • Done
  • "taking a more pop direction for his next record," → "taking a more pop orientated direction for his next studio album"
  • Done
  • Add release year of the album in brackets
  • Done
  • "peaking at No. 29" → "peaking at number 29"
  • Done
  • "It was aided by" → "It was promoted with"
  • Used this for variety, as "promoted" is used earlier
  • "as the album's third single" → "as Lodger's third single"
  • Fine as is
  • Remove wikilink on Netherlands
  • Done
  • No source explicitly states the song failed to chart
  • My Bad, Pegg states this; added

Critical reception

[edit]
  • "received mixed reviews on its original release." → "was met with mixed reviews from contemporary music critics."
  • Stated above – means both then and now
  • "found it boring, describing it as" → "found it boring and"
  • Done
  • "Although they felt this was both" → "Although they considered this both"
  • Done
  • It's already linked
  • Don't think "In a more mixed review" should be used to start the first para's last sentence since the preceding reviews are mostly mixed
  • Valid point. Removed.
  • "had "some ideas" → "has "some ideas"
  • Done
  • "but as a whole was" → "but as a whole is"
  • Done
  • Either identify The New York Times author or write the staff, as the magazine itself is not a reviewer
  • Fixed
  • "those qualities were" → "those qualities are"
  • Done
  • "has received positive reviews." → "has received more positive reviews."
  • Done
  • "great end to "his" → "great end to Bowie's" to avoid confusion
  • Done
  • "Stephen Thomas Erlewine of AllMusic also gave" → "Erlewine also gave"
  • Done
  • "describes Lodger as" → "described Lodger as"
  • Done
  • "Brian Wawzenek of Ultimate Classic Rock concludes: "as" → "Wawzenek concluded: "as"
  • Done

Influence and legacy

[edit]
  • [107] offers no mention of the album being considered the trilogy's weakest
  • You have to go to page 2 (which is stated)
  • "it was recorded at." → "the album was recorded at."
  • Unnecessary
  • "Indeed, Lodger has come" → "Indeed, the album has come"
  • Done
  • "Wawzenek describes it" → "Wawzenek described it"
  • Done
  • Add release years of the films in brackets
  • Sure
  • "Christopher Sandford calls it" → "Christopher Sandford calls Lodger"
  • Done
  • "It is one of" → "Lodger is one of"
  • Done
  • "directed by David Mallet" → "directed by Mallet"
  • Done
  • Brackets are not needed in the first sentence of the second para
  • Done; P.S. Parentheses are different than brackets
  • "which had just come out." → "which had just come out at the time."
  • Done
  • "The American indie rock band" → "American indie rock band" to be consistent, as you not used "the" in this context for other introductions
  • Done
  • "the album's songs influenced" → "Lodger's songs influenced"
  • Done
  • Unnecessary
  • Sure
  • ""Boys Keep Swinging" (Bowie" → ""Boys Keep Swinging"; Bowie" since this piece of grammar being used instead of brackets is fine when the sentence is this short
  • "Their lead singer" → "The lead singer"
  • Done
  • Remove wikilink on indie rock
  • Done
  • Target to Death of David Bowie should only be on "Bowie's death" text
  • Fixed
  • "stayed in touch other" → "stayed in touch with each other"
  • I did not write it like that WTH; fixed
  • "for the third symphony adding," → "for the third symphony, adding that"
  • Done
  • "not totally disappeared."" → "not totally disappeared"."
  • Done
  • "it premièred in" → "it premiered in"
  • Done
  • "based on Bowie's "Berlin Trilogy"." → "based on Bowie's work."
  • No, the three Glass symphonies were based on the Berlin trilogy
  • "on all of those tours." → "on all of the tours."
  • No, specifies which ones we're talking about

2017 remix

[edit]
  • Done
  • "for many years calling it" → "for many years, calling it"
  • Done
  • "had that the record" → "had that the album"
  • Record is fine; plus it varies it up
  • "during the sessions for" → "during the sessions for the former's 24th studio album"
  • Done
  • "presented the new mixes to Bowie, who approved of them" → "presented the new mix to Bowie, who approved of it"
  • When Visconti presented what he was doing to Bowie, he had only completed a few of the new mixes (maybe 3-4 of the tracks). Bowie approved of this, but Visconti didn't finish all of them til after Bowie died. So the wording as is is more appropriate
  • "included it in the 2017 box set" → "included it on" plus remove the wikilink
  • Done
  • "writes that the new mix" → "wrote that the new mix"
  • Done
  • "and noted that the" → "and noting that the"
  • Done
  • "praised the remix, believing it has" → "praised the remix, believing it"
  • Done
  • "the record and" → "the record and is"
  • Done
  • "was the highlight of" → "is the highlight of"
  • Done

Track listing

[edit]
  • Good

Reissues

[edit]
  • "(in the USA)" → "(in the US)
  • I realized that the first few reissues had no refs supporting them so that's been fixed. I also rewrote these sentence and felt this was unnecessary
  • Wikilink EMI on the first instance instead
  • Done
  • Done
  • "a remaster of" → "consisting a remaster of"
  • changed to a colon
  • Done

Personnel

[edit]
  • Having it as a redirect is fine

Charts

[edit]
  • Retitle to Charts and certifications
  • Usually I remember to do that. Fixed.

Weekly charts

[edit]
  • 1979 weekly chart performance → 1979 weekly chart performance for Lodger
  • Done
  • 2016 weekly chart performance → 2016 weekly chart performance for Lodger
  • Done

Year-end charts

[edit]
  • 1979 year-end chart performance → 1979 year-end chart performance for Lodger
  • Done
  • Remove target on RPM
  • It's actually a different link than the weekly one

Certifications

[edit]
  • Add a dash in the certification column for France; see "I Love You" for an example
  • Done
  • Remove the Asterix for the sales since it is clear they are not units
  • It's the template so idk how to do that.

Notes

[edit]
  • Good

References

[edit]
  • Copyvio score looks pretty good at 27.5%
  • Make sure all of these that can be are archived by using the tool
  • I've archived every one possible
  • Italicise the album title(s) on refs 2, 22, 38, 58, 61, 79, 95, 100, 118, 122 and 124, plus box set title on ref 88
  • The ones that use put the title in single apostrophes should be left alone as that's what the title is
  • Fix MOS:QWQ issues with ref 81 and italicise the album title
  • Not sure what you're referring to here
  • Replace ref 82 with ref 137 by using a ref name, as they both lead to Bowie's chart history so are essentially duplicates
  • Done
  • Done
  • Target National Public Radio to NPR on ref 113
  • Done
  • Done
  • WP:OVERLINK of The Guardian on ref 121 and italicise the album title
  • Done and done
  • Remove wikilink on David Bowie for ref 126
  • Done
  • Only cite the publisher for ref 130
  • Done
  • Add language parameter for refs 131, 140 and 141, plus why is the latter of the three missing the publisher?
  • Fixed, and I have no idea
  • Done
  • WP:OVERLINK of RPM on ref 138
  • Done

Sources

[edit]
  • Done
[edit]
  • Good

Final comments and verdict

[edit]
Zmbro Good thing we have come to a comprise on this subject, after having a good amount of time disagreeing. ✓ Pass now you've implemented the name references properly! --K. Peake 17:37, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lodger_(album)/GA1&oldid=1001652616"