Talk:Locusta

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Crime and Criminal Biography Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Classical Greece and Rome Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women's History Low‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women in Business Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Business, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles about women in business on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in BusinessWikipedia:WikiProject Women in BusinessTemplate:WikiProject Women in BusinessWomen in Business articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Total Rewrite. No giraffes, please! And was she of Gallic origin?

So far as I know, all the authentic, original ancient sources about Locusta are now cited in the article. (If you know of any other citation, please add.) These references contain all we know about Locusta. Previous material included in this article from dubious secondary sources (various books about serial murderers, mostly) included some egregiously false information that seems to have been fabricated by modern authors.

Regarding the "urban myth" that Locusta was sentenced to rape by giraffe, the earliest such claim I find is in The Encyclopedia of Serial Killers by Michael Newton, first edition ONLY, which states:

"As described by Apuleius a century later, Locusta's execution was timed to coincide with one of the frequent Roman festivals - probably the Agonalia (for Janus), held on January 9. On orders from Galba, Locusta was publicly raped by a specially trained giraffe, after which she was torn apart by wild animals."

While this highly detailed statement may "sound" factual, it is not. (And, interestingly, it does not appear in the second edition of Newton's book.) Apuleius cannot be the source, because nowhere does Apuleius refer to Locusta; in The Golden Ass, Apuelius does tell the tale of a woman poisoner condemned to be mounted by an ass (not a giraffe), but the woman is a fictional character, not Locusta. Nor do we have any clue about the precise date of Locusta's death. ALL we know about her fate is contained in the brief mention in Cassius Dio, 63.3: "In the case, however, of Helius, Narcissus, Patrobius, Lucusta [aka Locusta], the sorceress, and others of the scum that had come to the surface in Nero's day, he [Galba] ordered them to be led in chains throughout the whole city and then to be executed." And that's it; no giraffe, no wild animals, and no precise location or date.

I wrote to Newton to inquire about this statement, and he only vaguely recalls that his source might have been the notoriously fanciful quasi-fictional book about gladiator games, Those About to Die by Daniel P. Mannix. Indeed, in chapter 5 of that book, Mannix spins a wholly fictional and very lurid tale about a beast trainer whose work includes inducing various animal, including giraffes, to have sex with women prisoners, and Mannix also alludes to the episode from Apuleius. Still, there is no connection to Locusta. Stevensaylor (talk) 21:29, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You removed all secondary sources, including the historiographic ones. Wikipedia primarily uses secondary sources, as primary sources are considered unreliable. Dimadick (talk) 08:22, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled

Um, judging by the information on the page Locusta would appear to have been a contract-hitwoman, working for the government, not a serial killer.

I probably should have made it clear that she also poisoned others in her spare time. --Auric 17:12, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This article is in slight conflict with the article concerning Claudius. In said article, cause of death and those responsible are not certain, while this states solidly.

"The general consensus of ancient historians is that Claudius was murdered by poison — possibly contained in mushrooms — and died in the early hours of October 13, 54. Accounts vary greatly. Some claim Claudius was in Rome[29] while others claim he was in Sinuessa.[30] Some implicate either Halotus, his taster, Xenophon, his doctor, or the infamous poisoner Locusta as the administrator of the fatal substance.[31]"

from Wikipedia article "Claudius"

Please mend what needs to be mended.

Any sources about murders she would have committed "for kicks" (or that she did)? Her being other than a for hire poisoner is definitely not in Suetonius, and I don't remember it in Tacitus either. IIRC, the only source I'd not have read would be Dio Cassius. Seriously, the "serial killer" bit about her seems to be from Ramsland, whose works I am familar enough with to be about sure she's a shameless sensational writer who's got no qualms about stretching the truth to get better copy, or a couple more paid pages. --Svartalf (talk) 21:33, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sources for this article

I don't have the time to improve this article at the moment; however, I did find more sources about Locusta on Google books.

Also, the external link uses Outrageous Women of Ancient Times by Vicki León as a source.

--momoricks ^talk 10:06, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Better take a look at these sources. --85.16.76.66 (talk) 16:58, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Death

I'm skeptical about her death. While I wouldn't put it past human because of its cruelty (as I have learned, there is nothing that man finds "too cruel" to inflict upon another human being), it just seems a bit ridiculous. So I did a bit of fact-checking (thanks momoricks!), and Uppity Women of the Ancient Times claims she was executed "efficiently" without stating the exact method (Link), while Blood and Splendor: The Lives of Five Tyrants, from Nero to Saddam Hussein states that she was beheaded (Link). That seems a bit less absurd, if you ask me.65.182.82.248 (talk) 12:52, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, I just checked the given source in the article on google books (Link), and it has no mention at all of rape or a giraffe. It states that she was publicly executed in the Coliseum on January 9th, but gives no more details. Furthermore, upon checking the edit history, this seems to be a case of vandalism. Should have thought to check that first. /facepalm65.182.82.248 (talk) 12:59, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Schechter book does have the claim mentioned but it directly quotes Newton's Encyclopedia on the subject. I've not been able to find any other mention of this wild claim anywhere else. The sentence has been reworded a bit to make it clear that this is Newton's claim only. If better sources cant be found, the claim should be removed.--RadioFan (talk) 14:40, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Schlechter cites Newton and Newton removed it from the second revision of his book. And even if it was still in there, I wouldn't count that as a valid source. Where does this information suddenly come from - 2000 years later? These authors should learn to cite (or stop making things up). --85.16.76.64 (talk) 16:49, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I recall the same thing being mentioned on the Nero page (the emperor). Might be worth checking out edit history there, too. --Falkvinge 16:51, 22 August 2012 (CET)

Newtons book cites the claim to Apuleius, written a century later, plenty of time for errors to creep in.--Auric 02:32, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A Partial Varronian Source for the Giraffe?

There may be one ancient source, which if creatively misconstrued might somehow fit into the giraffe story. In De Lingua Latina, book 7, Varro quotes a line of Naevius: "Atque prius pariet lucusta Lucam bovem" (And indeed sooner will a locust [lucusta] give birth to an elephant). Now, if you ignore that (1) this is supposed to be by a poet who lived a century before the poisoner Lucusta, (2) that lucusta in this poem is probably just a plain old locust, not a personal name, and (3) that Varro goes on to explain that a luca bos is an elephant not a giraffe, you could have the kernel of this ridiculous story.

The only reason I bring this up is that if this is the source, it's far too clever to be your average internet prank. But it sounds like the sort of thing that might have been used as a risqué joke in early modern literature. Tristram Shandy has a number of jokes that depend on the reader being able to figure out how tendentious a character's interpretation of Latin is. Is there anyone who is more up on how to search through early modern literature? I just wonder whether there's something lurking in the post-classical reception of the Lucusta story. Zloop (talk) 19:26, 1 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Serial Killer

I noticed somewhere down the line the mention as a serial killer got thrown out the window. Any backing to this or just collateral damage ? Else I'm putting back the categories. zubrowka74 16:25, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Refimprove and Expansion

This article is way too short and disorganized, and needs to be expanded in more detail than what it currently is. The article should be split into sections detailing the person's history (what is known and what is fabricated), death, number of victims, and references in popular culture.--Paleface Jack (talk) 15:48, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References to popular culture are going to be difficult. Locusta's name has become synonymous to "poisoner", and other poisoners (real and fictional) are either called by her name or compared to her in multiple works. As a character in historical fiction, she mainly turns up in works focusing on Claudius, Agrippina the Younger, and Nero. I am not certain whether she is ever a major character, rather than one character in a rather large cast. Dimadick (talk) 08:30, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]