Talk:Llywelyn (name)

Move to Llywelyn (name)

I don't think WP:COMMONNAME quite justifies calling this article Llewellyn (name). It seems to me that the article is primarily about the given name, which for historical bearers is usually spelt Llywelyn (and, I suspect – this is worth checking – for modern bearers too). Indeed, it seems to me that the name is really associated above all with Welsh historical figures. But what do people think? garik (talk) 20:02, 30 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

To put it another way: This article seems clearly to be more about the name Llywelyn than the name Llewellyn. garik (talk) 20:17, 30 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

OK. I've now moved it. garik (talk) 15:56, 9 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, according to Welsh Surnames the form Llewellyn is the form of the name most widely encountered. When I rewrote the article I wrote to be as inclusive of all forms of the name, both personal and as a surname, as the name is by and large enterchangeable. Either way, Llewellyn/Llywelyn is the same name and both are legitimate for the title of the article.♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 09:46, 16 September 2012 (UTC) Also, the section which lists the various forms of the name appear as both last names and given names in the various records Welsh Surnames cites. ♦Drachenfyre♦·Talk 09:49, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I believe it's true that Llewellyn is the most common spelling for the surname (although not necessarily for the given name), and that they're the same name. However, I think there's a very good case all the same that this article be at "Llywelyn". When I read the article as it was before I moved it it seemed pretty clear to me that it should be at Llywelyn. It starts with the origins of the name, talks about famous historical bearers, and then goes on to talk about spelling variations. It seems to make very good sense, therefore, to have the more original spelling as the title of the article, particularly given that this spelling is still not at all uncommon (particularly for the well known historical bearers), even if one the variant spellings is more common worldwide in surnames. But I do take your point that saying "This article seems clearly to be more about the name Llywelyn than the name Llewellyn" isn't quite right; I should have said something like "This article seems clearly to be more about the name as spelt Llywelyn than the name as spelt Llewellyn". And I can also see that the case in favour of one spelling or another is not overwhelming, but it still seems to me that the case for Llywelyn is a little stronger. garik (talk) 12:31, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I'm sorry, but I'm not sure I understand your second point. garik (talk) 12:48, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

To put this point another way: I think you did an excellent job of rewriting this article in a balanced and informative way. But I also think that the natural title for the article you wrote is Llywelyn, not Llewellyn. garik (talk) 13:33, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]