Talk:Lithuanian calendar

A fact from Lithuanian calendar appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 28 February 2007. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that in the Lithuanian calendar, three months are named for birds and two for trees?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2007/February.

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Earlier names

I wonder what were the names for the months used prior to 1918. Were they based on Latin? //Halibu tt 19:34, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No these and other Lithuanian words were invented after 1918 II 16th, like all the rest of Lithuanian language and toponyms.--Lokyz 22:44, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's an interesting question, but I don't have firm references to hand. Inserted a 19th century pic, but the resolution is too poor to see any month names, if there are any. Novickas 22:58, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, the explanation helped a bit. Prior to your edits the article suggested that the names of the months before 1918 were totally different and it was not until that time that the new names were invented (They were created after Lithuania regained independence in 1918, and celebrate natural phenomena). Anyway, adding the info on earlier calendar would be interesting. //Halibu tt 22:05, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Invented weekdays:

A comparison with Prussian-Lithuanian shows that today's weekdays are ahistorical. These are the entries from Kurschat's German-(Prussian-)Lithuanian dictionary of 1870. All are Slavic loanwords.

Montag: panedelis - pirmadienis

Dienstag: utarninkas - antradienis

Mittwoch: sereda - treciadienis

Donnerstag: ketwergas - ketvirtadienis

Freitag: petnyczia - penktadienis

Samstag: subata - sestadienis

Sonntag: nedelia - sekmadienis

Lutz Szemkus

Forgery

Lokyz do you think that the calender from 1861, might be a forgery? It's a clear reference to Wilnius, prior to the stardardization of Lithuanian spelling. The toponym, Vilnius, was invented in 1918 too, wasn't it? If your not sure, can you think of an expert who might know? Dr. Dan 16:55, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, this was just plain ironic. i do know that all those names have agelong tradition, like the Lithuanian language also. I'm sorry if you did not understand my harsh joke.--213.197.149.74 15:50, 9 March 2007 (UTC) P.S. oops, I was logged out.--Lokyz 15:53, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it's a forgery since it uses the contemporary spelling (Wilniuje) rather than post-1918 one (Vilniuje). //Halibu tt 22:08, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lokyz, it was I that was being ironic. I don't have to tell you, but for the benefit of others, Wilniuje, is the locative grammatical case, for the calendar being published in Wilnius, in 1861, with Lithuanian spellings having since been standardized to Vilnius. For the benefit of English speakers, it it comparable to Jefferson's, non-standardized spellings in the Declaration of Independence, or of Szekspir's spelling all over the place. Just the same, the calendar is a great contribution, and another example of "how Lithuanians were able to establish a nation out of "Folklore", or some such babel that Wikipedeans are constantly bombarded with. Dr. Dan 22:51, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Then why do you bombard wikipedians with such rubbish if you don't like it yourself? As far as I know you're the only person out there spreading such nonsense... //Halibu tt 03:23, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And I suppose a few examples of such "rubbish" would be that Vilnius is the historical capital of Lithuania. Or that Vilnius is located in Lithuania. Or that the famous "two-percent" of Lithuanians living in Vilnius, were a minority of people who were ethnically Lithuanian, but could not, or chose not to speak Polish or Russian, or identify themselves with Poland or Russia. And let's not forget the "rubbish" of my insistence that Jews living in Lithuania were/are Lithuanian Jews just as those living in France were/are French Jews. Naturually it's better that you should focus on denying these facts over and over again. Otherwise one would have to confront the issue of the Lithuanian calendar in this article printed in 1861, in the Lithuanian language, in "Wilnius", two years prior to the January Uprising. And that a lot of Lithuanian related information in articles on Wikipedia was not "invented" in 1918, but a lot of biased and derogatory information about Lithuania and Lithuanians was "invented" in the minds of a few editors in the last few years right here on this venue. Dr. Dan 13:58, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I hope you don't expect me to honour your lies with a reply. //Halibu tt 03:53, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Of course I don't, not that you could, even if you chose to do so. That would require you to confront my "lies" with your own "truths". So I will simply have to let our readers judge for themselves on this one. Dr. Dan 14:24, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Historic names

I added the historic names to the article. The entry for vasaris is a little mysterious since the historic versions don't include anything like it. A possibly crackpot theory comes to mind - could it be connected to independence being declared in that month? Reference was here: [1] Novickas 16:04, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Just a note: perhaps it can be confirmed that "Kova" is not just a struggle, but a struggle to the death. Although it would not be attributable (or even necessarily correct) I heard a native explain that a lot of Lithuanians make it through the winter, only to die in March. The point more would be about how they think about it. 72.66.254.84 (talk) 21:44, 21 April 2011 (UTC)MJR[reply]

Nine Day or Nine Night Week?

I have read in many places that Lithuania had at some point a Nine Day (or Nine Night) Week? Although I'm unable to find a reliable cite.

I noticed in this article The Gediminas Sceptre, a medieval Lithuanian calendar has nine of something;

The Celts had a nine night week (with eight days), maybe some relation? Can anyone throw any light on this?
Hope to link a nine day/night section in Week to here --Pnb73 (talk) 09:14, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it's most interesting. This piece (in Lithuanian) [2] mentions that it was a 9-day week, along with a discussion of the significance of the numbers 3-6-9. Passing mention of the Stone Age. The author, Libertas Klima, seems reputable, a member of the state cultural heritage commission. [3]. But it would take me forever to translate it. :( If you want to try and let Google translate some search results - search for its LT name "Gedimino skeptras". Based on this ref, it could go in the 9-day section. Good luck - Novickas (talk) 14:28, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much! Yes, I seem to find a lot of information that this goes back to the Ancient Balts at least. I'm trying to find more cites on exactly why this is stated, i.e. reference to exact artifacts. Unfortunately most research is in languages I don't know. --Pnb73 (talk) 19:22, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone know when the nine-day week and/or this calendar abandoned? I assume it was when Lithuania was Christianized in 1387? and they converted to a seven-day week and the Julian calendar? --Pnb73 (talk) 13:41, 23 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi - according to this ref ([4], the root ausis.gf.vu.lt is a Vilnius University site) the Julian calendar was adopted in the middle of the 13th century. On the other hand, Gediminas lived 1275 – 1341. Needs a little more research, will see what I can find...Novickas (talk) 14:26, 23 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here's one from the Palanga Amber Museum: Po Žemaitijos krikšto 1413 m. buvo įvestas Julijaus kalendorius. (After Žemaitija was christianized in 1413 the Julian calendar was adopted). [5] The problem is that Žemaitija was about the last area of LT to be christianized. But I think it's safe to say about 1400. The details of its adoption are probably buried in some scholarly monographs, it was probably not a single nationwide decree. Hope this helps, Novickas (talk) 15:03, 23 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No one uses anymore 9-day week. It was not based on lunar month, that currently is mix-based of modern calendar. It seems, that 9-day week came from Solar calendar, that could divide 360 into 40 weeks plus extra 5 days, which were most likely used in solstice celebrations, because without modern technology it is only approximately possible to say where Sun reaches these maximum points on horizon, not to mention, that it is unusualy to have rainy and foggy mornings. Solstices, equinoxes and time between these were pivotal points in this calendar system(5 9-day weeks between equinox and solstice) and they were not only Holy days(which now is name for Sunday in baltic and also estonian languages), but also divided 8 "months" into seasons and middle of season. Lunar movement observation was of no use for livestock breeding and farming, as in northern hemisphere there was only harvesting once per year, not unlike other places, where Sun was shining all year and moon movements were used for harvest timing.

Current names of weekdays in lithuanian are actually of recent creation(19.th century or maybe even 20.th century) and it is based on naming of latvian weekdays - the main reason was an effort to clean language from polonization and slavic influence, so it would be most probably that lithuanians used at some point lithuanianized slavic naming for weekdays.

Probably because 3 is also number to divide not only time, where there are really only 3 seasons of life - winter is also associated with death in humans life, that consists of youth, maturity, old age and dying. Baltic people associate it also by diving earth in 3 parts - lithuanians, just as latvians till this day has this division in names of regions, that seems, existed before arrival of latvians-lithuanians: Aukštaitija/Augšzeme, Žemaitija/Zemgale and it would be logically to put Underworld in west, but there exists only Courland and some prussian lands. 2.96.195.56 (talk) 14:43, 30 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So let's see if I understand this...

The Lithuanian calendar is in fact the Gregorian calendar. OK, they have names for months that are not derived from Norse or Latin names, but that doesn't make it a separate calendar. So does the Polish, btw. That's not a separate calendar, that's just a separate language. --OpenFuture (talk) 14:06, 26 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The point is not the different structure of the calendar but the different source from which the names of the months are derived. In this respect, it is a different calendar. --Rokas00 (talk) 14:54, 30 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't make it a separate calendar. Loads of languages have different month names from the Latin ones. Polish for example. The article should probably be renamed to "Lithuanian month names" or "Lithuanian calendar names". The title now gives the impression that this is a different calendar, which it isn't. --OpenFuture (talk) 22:04, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No problem with me as far as it concerns renaming the article to "Lithuanian month names" or something along those lines. --Rokas00 (talk) 21:21, 30 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have taken the time to review existing articles about calendars from other regions. I see that there is an article called Slavic calendar and one called Germanic calendar. I believe consistency requires that those two be renamed "Slavic month names" and "Germanic month names" respectively as well? --Rokas00 (talk) 21:45, 30 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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