Talk:List of songs in Glee season 1/Archive 1

Archive 1

Suggestions

I love the work you are doing on this article. It is increadible and will make such an esteemed contribution to the Glee project. I just wanted to point out that some of these songs are infact only used as instrumental pieces and one song (single ladies) isnt sung by any of the cast. Other such song that arnt such by the cast are not placed on the list so perhaps this shouldnt be placed there either (even through it plays a bit part to the episode). Also, many original acapella pieces (by The Singsations) which are listed on Imbd as being part of the "soundtrack" of the episode mey need to be inlcuded.

for example:

• [1] - acapella pieces
• [2] - (For He's a Jolly Good Fellow is not inlcuded while an instrumental piece is)

These arnt set in stone. I'm just letting you know incase these things need to be taken into account in your article.

Perhaps you could keep that in mind when making this article. Thanks.--Coin945 (talk) 15:08, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your message! A problem I encountered when compiling the list was that the Fox episode recaps neglect to mention some performances, while including others that I would have been more inclined to leave out ("Single Ladies" and Mark Salling's instrumental piece are the two that come to mind). I meant to include a footnote indicating that these were dance and instrumental performances only, but didn't quite get round to it last night. I'll also add in "For He's a Jolly Good Fellow", plus a few more that I forgot about rather than omitted on purpose, as was the case with Lea Michele's "Cabaret" (thanks for adding that in.)

The score is slightly more difficult, because while the majority of songs performed by the cast can be adequately sourced either through Fox or episode reviews, IMDb is the only place I've seen specific score tracks listed. If you know of any reliable sources that detail the same information, that would be great. Otherwise, it's probably more appropriate just to mention in the Production section that the acapella score is provided by The Singsations/Swingle Sisters. I'll get started on sorting things out now. Frickative 19:32, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Cool. Also perhaps if its not too much trouble, it might be nice to include the year of original release for each song.--Coin945 (talk) 10:34, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Sure. I'm still trying to find reliable sources for the chart positions listed at Music of Glee, but once I do I'll add in year of release and chart position info too. Frickative 12:30, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Maybe we should write who was prominent in the song comma new direction or whatever (for example: True Colors..... ...... Jenna Ushkowitz, New Directions; or with, or and) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.174.180.114 (talk) 05:29, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I think there's some danger of heading into original research territory there, as different people may have differing ideas of who was prominent in each song. However, as the Fox page on Glee specifically lists "True Colors" as being performed by Tina and New Directions, I think it's okay to make the distinction in this case. Frickative 17:34, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Defying Gravity

I love this article! The amount of work is great. However, I was wondering if one should include the fact that Defying Gravity has also been released in two other versions - one with Kurt's solo and one with Rachel's solo? I'm not sure exactly where/how they have been released though. Itunes perhaps?

Very good point! Thanks for bringing it up. I'll do some research and see if I can figure out the release details to include in the article. Frickative 04:28, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Songs

Should it be pointed out in the article that:

• The recording of "You're the one that i want" is in fact a mere replaying of the recording used in the first episode... and that
• For the first time ever, one of the songs released as a single and going on the album is not one that is actually sung in the episode. "Sont make me over" is briefly played as an instrumental piece but it is never actually sung.
• The key between performed songs in episodes and the released version are actually different in many circumstances - for example "Crush" and "Don't stand so close to me/Young girl"

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Coin945 (talk • contribs) 13:14, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion

The page is named "list of songs in Glee" which I think is very well done and I use it a lot, so great job at everybody who helped on it.

The only suggestion that I have is that it feels a bit like an episode recap as well, and I think there might already be a page called "List of Glee Episodes" or something, which that information would be best deplayed at, that way the page "List of songs in Glee" would be a bit more clean only showing song lists (and maybe chart positions or something).

Again, its just a thought, I'm not super great at editing Wiki myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sangroku (talk • contribs) 17:12, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments :) You're right, the prose is definitely overly long at the moment, and it's on my to-do list to cut out all the superfluous stuff, leaving only some production information a few choice comments from the most notable reviewers/publications. I think a paragraph or so of critical reception of the songs in each episode is okay, but 3-5 paragraphs as there is for some of them at the moment is definitely excessive. Frickative 17:41, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

References to new Episodes and songs

There are many sources to the names of the new episode titles and the new songs that were recently reverted:

http://www.spoilersguide.com/glee/ http://gleewiki.fox.com/page/Glee+Spoilers http://www.gleeforum.com/Upcoming-Glee-Episodes-Spoilers-f41.html

If those these actual links, then the links these links link to surely give enpough reliable reference to these happenings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.221.92.168 (talk) 11:45, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

If you believe that reliable sources for the songs do exist, then please reference them directly, rather than expecting readers to trawl through the speculation and theorising of a fan-forum for verification. Thank you :) Frickative 12:30, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

The new songs and singers for the new episodes are not from the fan forums listed above but from the interviews with the cast themselves and the new promos that aired so please stop reverting the changes as they have been confirmed numerous times, again by the cast. (Hsm7 (talk) 03:38, 16 March 2010 (UTC))

As per my edit summary, if they have been confirmed numerous times in interviews, it shouldn't be a problem to include a reliable source as required for verification. Thanks. Frickative 04:06, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure on how to reference them so could you place the references correctly, this one confirms the 10 songs that are in The Power of Madonna:

http://www.madonnatribe.com/news/modules.php?file=article&name=News&sid=5110

Here is the website confirming the performers in Vogue: http://www.fancast.com/blogs/2010/interviews/jane-lynch-vogues-to-madonna-gets-physical-with-olivia-newton-john/

Jessalyn confirms Like A Virgin: http://www.fancast.com/blogs/2010/tv-news/gleeking-out-with-jane-lynch-jessalyn-gilsig/

Interview with Lea Michele confirming she is in SIX Madonna songs: http://theenvelope.latimes.com/awards/globes/la-en-lea-michele2-2009dec02,0,4526672.story

This confirms What It Feels Like For A Girl: http://www.last.fm/music/Cory%2BMonteith%252C%2BKevin%2BMcHale%252C%2B%2526%2BMark%2BSalling/_/What+It+Feels+Like+For+A+Girl (Hsm7 (talk) 16:59, 16 March 2010 (UTC))

Thanks very much for those. The middle three are great, though the first and last probably don't meet WP:RS, because Madonna Tribe seems to be a fansite and the Last FM page comes from user generated content. I'm just about to log out, but I'll add references in when I get back online unless someone beats me to it. If you want to read up on referencing yourself, the template page is here :) Frickative 06:17, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Well here is another one confirming the 10 Madonna songs: http://www.tvguide.ca/TVNews/Articles/100109_madonna_on_glee_DW.htm (Hsm7 (talk) 17:22, 16 March 2010 (UTC))

Thanks. TV Guide cites Madonna Tribe as its source and calls it the "supposed" set list, which isn't very definite, but I've added it for now. I've used the Fancast interview with Jane Lynch to support Sue, Mercedes, Santana and Brittany performing "Vogue", though it doesn't mention Kurt. I'm sure I've read elsewhere that he will be in it, so I'll see if I can hunt that down to add it in. The other performers still need referencing, though. (Don't know if you're interested, but Kevin McHale sent out a Tweet a few months ago poking fun at the Music of Glee article for all the incorrect performers that had been listed for songs on Glee: The Music, Volume 2 - so it's quite embarrassing when unsourced speculation creeps in!) Frickative 18:26, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Well I believe that is because people put in ALL members of New Directions for the group numbers when it really is only certain people (Hsm7 (talk) 05:21, 17 March 2010 (UTC))

I think there were some that were just flat out crazy wrong, like "True Colors" supposedly being a Kurt solo, but eh. I haven't been able to find the source confirming Chris Colfer will be part of the "Vogue" performance, but I've added one for Morrison and Mays on "Like a Virgin". Frickative 05:12, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Okay so I found this article that states Chris Colfer is part of Vogue and that there is 10 musical numbers: http://www.afterellen.com/blog/snoodit/jane-lynch-and-ryan-murphy-offer-glee-spoilers-at-paleyfest

This interview from Jessalyn confirms that Like A Virgin has multiple singers and it was leaked out as to which ones: http://www.fancast.com/blogs/2010/tv-news/gleeking-out-with-jane-lynch-jessalyn-gilsig/

This is what was leaked out that proved there are six people doing Like A Virgin, this person works on the Glee crew and since it matches with what was revealed at Paley Fest ie. Hello & Highway To Hell its pretty clear it is accurate: http://i48.tinypic.com/6een90.jpg

Also in this previous posted interview, Lea confirms that Amber and Chris do something special together and although she could not give it away it has since been revealed to be 4 Minutes. She also mentions that of her six songs there will be mash-ups ie. Borderline/Open Your Heart: http://theenvelope.latimes.com/awards/globes/la-en-lea-michele2-2009dec02,0,4526672.story (Hsm7 (talk) 05:21, 17 March 2010 (UTC))

Sorry to keep going back to this, but WP:RS is a really important guideline. Saying things like 'it was leaked out' and 'it has since been revealed' is fine and I'm not saying I disbelieve you by any means (in fact I've read the same myself from set reports and fansites!), but the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. Ultimately a screenshot of a leaked track list isn't a reliable source, even if it does turn out to be 100% accurate in the end. So wrt your latest edits, the Michele credit for the mash-up is fine, as is the Colfer one for "Vogue", and I'll both in for you momentarily, but the screenshot unfortunately won't cut it as suitably reliable for "Like a Virgin". And where has the Colfer/Riley "4 Minutes" confirmation come from?

Semi-related, but if you want to take a stab at adding sources in yourself in future, all you need to fill out is:

<ref>{{cite web |url= |title= |author= |date= |work= |publisher= |accessdate=17 March 2010}}</ref>

Any problems just let me know and I'll see what I can do to help. Frickative 05:46, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks so much for helping with this and yeah I wasn't entirely sure if the screenshot would work or not so I just gave it a shot. Well the 4 Minutes is the special thing Chris and Amber are doing but Lea doesn't specifically say that so I guess until the Glee The Music: The Power of Madonna comes out or it becomes anounnced officially it cannot be verified as reliable. (Hsm7 (talk) 21:43, 17 March 2010 (UTC))

"One"?

I don't see anywhere in the reference, nor have I heard in the extended episode that the song "One" from A Chorus Line is sung...? Is there another reference? Because I really don't think the song was in the episode. --Yvesnimmo (talk) 00:00, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

There is a brief flashback scene where Sandy has the old glee club sing it, but I don't recall whether it's in the regular episode, the director's cut, or the unaired pilot. I'd hazard a guess that the editor who added it copied the table format from the entry below, seeing as the references are the same. I'll check the episodes later, and if it was in the unaired version, it should probably be taken out. If it was in one of the versions which aired, and there are no better references, I'll use {{cite episode}} with the exact time the song features. Frickative 13:47, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Year of Release

As a section of the Glee songs table, I believe that stating the year of original release of the song has just grounds due to the show claiming to use songs from a variety of genres from a variety of periods and for the casual reader, it would be informative and interesting to allow them to easily see the spread of years the songs originate from, as well as comparing Glee's cover with the original.

In addition, the edit I made included more than just the addition of the years of release, so if it is eventually decided that the years should not be included, the other minor edits should be taken into account instead of reverting the entire edit.--Coin945 (talk) 02:17, 30 March 2010 (UTC).--Coin945 (talk) 02:09, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Hey, I'm not going to revert you again, I just thought I'd explain my own position. I personally don't think the year of original release is relevant enough to readers looking for a, well, 'list of songs in Glee'. I think the same end is probably achieved more succinctly through the line in the lead: 'Murphy is responsible for selecting all of the songs used, and strives to maintain a balance between show tunes and chart hits, as he wants there to be "something for everybody in every episode."' - with maybe a bit more expansion on genres/periods he selects from, if another interview on the same topic can be found. I think original year of release, as with writer/label/original chart position etc is something any reader interested enough can find by clicking through the song title.

That said, if it stays in then there's a little copy editing that needs to be done - per WP:TABLE only the first word in the heading should be capitalized, and I'd suggest that the column would be better placed after the list of original artists, which is more directly relevant. Frickative 10:14, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. Just seemed a bit rash. You do have a good point. It's just that I found that when reading this article, the year of release was one of the things that was lacking that really stood out to me. I will trust your judgement in this matter.--Coin945 (talk) 15:58, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

How Specific The Songs Included in the Graph Should Be

While reviewing some of the episodes of the series, i have come across numberous examples of songes which are included in the show (some originals such as the acapella tunes of the first episode and the instrumental piece "Looking Back", as well as some excerpts from the original pop songs) so i was just wondering where should we draw the line in regards to what should be included. If we should only include song sung by the cast of Glee, then we should remove the songs listed as dance routines or instrumental pieces only. It may also mean remoing songs which are only sung by a guest star such as "Home" by April Rhodes. Please discuss this further.--Coin945 (talk) 17:17, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps moving the article to 'List of songs performed in Glee' would be the best bet? That rules out including the backing tracks, which aren't notable in the same way songs performed in the show are, but gives leeway to include dance performances etc. I don't think removing dance or guest-star performances is the best way to go, given that the "Single Ladies" dance is one of the central elements of the "Preggers" episode, and all of the Chenoweth performances in "Rhodes" were released as singles, so were obviously quite important to that episode (I can't really comment on "Home" while it's yet to air). Maybe even 'List of performances in Glee', though that one's a bit vague. Frickative 18:24, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Glee: The Music, Vol. 3: Showstoppers Deluxe Edition Tracklist

Frickative, this is the link to the tracklist so can you add the new songs to the future songs? http://music.barnesandnoble.com/Glee-The-Music-Vol-3-Showstoppers/Glee-Cast/e/886977209321/?itm=2&USRI=glee+volume+3

Also, now that the episode has aired can we please remove Jonathan Groff from Express Yourself as its Lea, Dianna, Amber, Jenna, and Naya? (Hsm7 (talk) 21:56, 21 April 2010 (UTC))

Thanks a lot for the tracklist source! I took it out of Music of Glee for being unreferenced, but I'll add it back in now and get the new songs added to the table here :) And yeah, I think it's fine to remove JGroff from "Express Yourself" now. We'll need a new ref for it, but when Fox update their music recap page tomorrow it should be on there. Frickative 03:42, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Pilot vs. Pilot - Director's Cut

I've always wondered this: how come these two "different" episodes don't have seperate sections on this page?? Otherwise, should we at least add something in the "notes" section for all the songs that are either only featured, or lengthened in the director's cut??--Coin945 (talk) 08:35, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Only just saw this, so sorry for the late reply! Do you know which songs were only in the director's cut? The only one I'm sure of is Leaving on a Jet Plane, the rest I'm not sure which were in the normal episode, the cut, and the unaired version. Frickative 22:30, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

hmmm... because I havent seen the director's cut in AGES, I'm not so sure. Even if it is the case for more than just Leaving on a Jet Plane, do you think it is worth putting the note in?--Coin945 (talk) 05:18, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Last Christmas

Why isn't Last Christmas here? i always considered this more as a list of glee songs rather than a list of songs in glee. even so, it is a song by the glee cast and i think should (plus all the subsequent non-TV songs) be included.--Coin945 (talk) 15:56, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I disagree, actually. It's a list of songs performed in Glee, episode by episode. Listing non-TV promotional songs doesn't fit, in the same way listing all the albums and EPs wouldn't - the discography is for that. Anyone else have any input? Frickative 16:11, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps a change to the heading of the page?? "List of songs by the glee cast" "list of glee cast songs?" or something like that in the same way how in the page for Fame (TV series), their discography is for The Kids from "Fame" specifically rather that for Fame--Coin945 (talk) 09:04, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

I think that's a pretty big change to the remit of the article, just to include one promo single. Wouldn't it blur the lines with the discography page? Frickative 14:47, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't just think it involves that one promo single. Hello 12, Hello 13, Hello love wasn't actually featured in an episode. Burning up was never intended to be a part of POwer of Madonna. Dont Make me Over was never actually a "part" of that episode so they shouldn't be there either.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Coin945 (talk • contribs) 05:41, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Version Covered

Is there a reason why the songs are now arranged by Version Covered instead of Original Artist? Although I know it seems more accurate to list the version performed, I feel it is necessary to credit the original performers of the songs as well. If a version differs greatly from the original, could we simply put the version performed in parentheses? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.200.94 (talk) 21:50, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Fox are clear on which versions they cover, which quite often differs from the original version. The former information seems more directly relevant, and if anyone wants to look up exact credits, be it original performer, writer, composer etc, they can always click through to the song article. Mostly, though, editors were going into intricate detail about the original performers from musicals and films, whereas Fox simply credit the arrangement used, rather than any specific set of performers. Frickative 22:07, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Ok thanks, that does make sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.200.94 (talk) 22:26, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Defying Gravity And Dream On queries

The "Version covered" of Defying Gravity is actually a track from an album by Idina Menzel called I Stand, not Wicked. This should be changed.--Coin945 (talk) 13:58, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Also what is the name of the dance routine in Dream On - the one with the "tap wheels"??--121.215.152.58 (talk) 14:32, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Defying Gravity And Dream On queries

The "Version covered" of Defying Gravity is actually a track from an album by Idina Menzel called I Stand, not Wicked. This should be changed.--Coin945 (talk) 13:58, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Also what is the name of the dance routine in Dream On - the one with the "tap wheels"??--121.215.152.58 (talk) 14:32, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

thong song and journey query

why the heck does it say jayma mays as one if the artists in the thong song?? She didn't even do anything. It wasn't like she was a part of a dance number... Overall I think people are making this " artists" thing too seriously and listing the artists over- accurately to the point where lots of people who don't even sing are credited for doing just that. yes, sorry to burst everyones bubbles but the backing vocals of practically every glee song is NOT by the rest of the glee cast but actually by like fifteen others who are all listed in the crew section of the various album and ep articles. Although it is" intended" or " implied" that they are singing or dancing or whatever, if the have an insignificant role then just leave them out. In any case even if you do disagree with the above statement, the thong song shows absolutely NO proof that she is involved in the performance of that piece at all.

Also this doesn't really belong in here but in the finale episode journey, why hasn't it come to Anyones attention that the sweet and grateful olivia newton John has transformed suddenly into someone who mocks and ridicules sue? Seems like another unfortunate plot/character flaw... ...--Coin945 (talk) 09:18, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Over the Rainbow

They actually covered the cover of the song by Israel Kamakawiwo'ole, so it's a cover of a cover. Not sure if that's worth noting next to Judy Garland or not. 69.165.146.111 (talk) 06:04, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

To say that the version covered was Garland's is outright false. It was Isreal Kamakawiwo'ole's version that was covered, made plainly obvious by the Hawaiian feel of the song as performed in the episode, as well as the fact that the teacher character is playing a ukulele. Please see the following Wikipedia article for more infomration.

http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Israel_Kamakawiwo%27ole

I would say it needs to be changed, and the writer of the article didn't know about this artist and wrongly placed Judy Garland's name in the table. Above there was a suggestion about crediting the original artists as well, which would solve the debate in this discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.37.222.107 (talk) 07:35, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Touch-a, Touch-a, Touch-a, Touch Me

In this old article Ryan Murphy states that he will get Jayma Mays to sing her prepared audition number Touch-a, Touch-a, Touch-a, Touch Me from the Rocky Horror Show, and they have confirmed to be doing an upcoming Rocky Horror episode, so I included it on the article. "Jayma Mays, who landed the non-singing role of a guidance counselor smitten with Will, was still forced to bring out her prepared number, "Touch-A Touch-A Touch Me" from "The Rocky Horror Picture Show." "I'm so going to have to get her to do that on the show," Murphy said." 58.166.79.203 (talk) 03:36, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi - sorry, I'd already reverted your edit before you posted to the talk page, but as I said in my edit summary, given that Murphy's comments came a year before the episode was even planned for, it's not really adequate confirmation that it will happen. If it is confirmed by a current source and goes ahead, then older source will make a good addition to the eventual Rocky Horror episode article :) Frickative 03:41, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

References

Lady GaGa Song

It says under 'upcoming/future songs' that Rachel will be singing another Lady GaGa song. She said in an interview that it was quite a fast song to sing, and now we know that it's Telephone. However, Telephone has already been added to the 'Audition' section. So shouldn't the unnamed Lady GaGa song in the 'upcoming songs' section be removed? -- 82.33.38.234 (talk) 21:35, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Song List incorrect...In the listing, it is listed that "Leaving on a Jet Plane" sung by Will Schuester, "I Say A Little Prayer" sung by Quinn Fabray, "I Wanna Sex You Up" sung by Acafellas, and "I Could Have Danced All Night" sung by Emma Pillsbury are on the album 'Glee:The Music Volume 1'...that is incorrect. They are not available on that album. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.36.43.40 (talk) 20:52, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

They are actually available as bonus tracks on Glee: The Music, Volume 1. Yvesnimmo (talk) 20:55, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Noted...but maybe it should be designated as Target Bonus Tracks. Additionally, Volume 3 has bonus tracks as well... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.36.43.40 (talk) 21:50, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

I think the way we have it is sufficient. The four songs are tracks from Glee: The Music, Volume 1, and if one would like more information, the album is linked every time. Volume 3 Showstoppers has no bonus tracks, but a deluxe edition that is the only edition in many countries. Glee: The Music, The Power of Madonna does have a select bonus track, as well, but that song is not performed on the show. Yvesnimmo (talk) 22:41, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

"Notes" Queries

• What exactly does it mean when it says in the Notes section under f: "Studio recording produced"??? Surely every single song featured in the show, once upon a time was recorded in a studio.
• Also as the show continues to grow and grow, the notes section is going to become extremely long, confusing and unmanagable. Perhaps there is a more efficient way to organise such information.--Coin945 (talk) 17:09, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Good points both. The 'studio recordings' bit was meant to indicate which songs had been professionally recorded, eg. as a single or album track, but I can see how it would be misleading. I've been thinking myself that the notes section is becoming a bit excessive, but equally including more information in the tables themselves could potentially make them too crowded. Do you have any suggestions? One thing I think will be necessary will be splitting the article when the second season begins, so we have separate lists for each season. This one is already getting very long, and there are still another six episodes worth of songs to list. Frickative 18:24, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

ETA: It just occurred to me that now we list all the chart positions below the lists for each episode, the 'Released as a single?' column probably isn't necessary. Perhaps we could switch that out with an 'Album' column and move all the album details out of the notes and into the tables. Frickative 18:28, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

ETA2: Sorry, last edit, I promise. Despite what I just said above, I'm not entirely convinced this is the best place to note single chart positions at all, so maybe those mini-tables shouldn't be included. It just duplicates content from Music of Glee. A couple of months ago I also started working on a Glee Cast discography in my sandbox, so I don't want to create yet more duplication. Frickative 18:40, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

I've had a go at redesigning the tables for maximum efficiency, while trying not to overcrowd them with information. See what you think. Frickative 04:17, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Would there be anything that wrong with duplicating information on Wikipedia? If there was no duplication allowed across the board, some articles would be very restricted to what they would be able to include. If certain information is reliable and important to more than one article, then perhaps it is logical to include it in both articles.--Coin945 (talk) 05:23, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Also as the article is a "List of Glee songs", I think it is more logical to have the songs ordered in chronological order. I admire the way you have decided to organise the table but I still feel having two tables for each episode is a bit overdoing it. Perhaps the fact that the song is featured as a single could merely be another piece of information in the new "Notes" section. Or manybe in juction with what the So You Think You Can Dance and other similar articles have done, we could colour-code this information.--Coin945 (talk) 05:33, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

• A few more tidbits: if the article is just a "List of Songs of Glee" why is all the other information about critical resposes included? Perhaps it should just be a straight list. Is the article even classified as a list yet?
• Also at the beginning of Showmance, while Will and Emma talk to eachother, one of the school students plays some insteumental music on his guitar - perhaps this should be included (I don't know what song it is). Also in acafellas, although even the FOX website states that Puck plays "La Camisa Negra", I am still convinced that it is Will, while he is teaching Finn and Puck the dance moves for Acafellas.

—Preceding undated comment added 16:46, 18 October 2010 (UTC).

• Which brings me onto my last point: (this should probably be in the next section but as all my other comments are here...) One way to classify this article is to specify that it is according to [3]. That may also dissalow any preminitions into the future in regards to songs - especialy if there are some fans who wish to read about Glee but not be spoiled on upcoming episodes, which are not "officially" reliably sourced. If we intend to include them, perhaps a "spoilers alert" sign should be placed ahead of the unaired episodes.
• Also, I previously asked you if we were able to include the "year of original release", earlier on this page, and you said "sure" so that was the reason I was a bit dumbfounded the other day when you reverted it. Sorry about that.--Coin945 (talk) 05:54, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

• Whew, lots to reply to! Okay, I'll try and take it point by point... Given that this article is a content fork from Music of Glee, it's a bit pointless to duplicate the information that's already there. Having the chart information in both articles means that quite often one will be updated and the other won't, because editors don't realise that the same information is across two different pages. It's hard to keep track of all the different charts and countries, so I think centralising it somewhere, whether that's here, Music of Glee or a discography article would be best for ease of editing.]

If it is important to centralise all the data so it easy to edit and update, is it a wise idea to have duplicates of various excerpts of the singles discography being placed on each and every page about the cast of glee? I know it is fully reliable but as you say, it may in the future (and probably already has) become inconsistent due to the exact problem you stated.--Coin945 (talk) 18:43, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I think you're right about that. I'm not sure of the guidelines on this one, but I think replacing the mini discographies on each page with a link to the Glee Cast discography (which I've been bringing up-to-date today and is about ready to go into the mainspace) is a good idea. Same goes for the character pages - I'm not sure release info should be in the character articles in the first place, so a "See also" link to the discography is probably the best bet. Frickative 19:37, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

• It's not two tables for each episode, it's one table with two sub-headings - but I definitely take your point about chronology. I think as so many songs are released as singles, color-coding might result in an overuse of color, but using the 'Notes' section to indicate the singles is a good idea. I'll give that a go and see how it looks.

I've had a quick look at what you've done and i think you've done a marvelous job. The page is so much more neater and concise. i think this format really works--Coin945 (talk) 18:43, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Great, thank you! I'll move the changes over into the main article once I'm ready to go live with the discography page later today. Frickative 19:37, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

• Honestly, I'm not entirely certain, but I am coming round to the viewpoint that the critical reception should be taken out entirely. When I started the list off, Glee hadn't been on the air all that long, and I was a bit paranoind that someone would take it to AFD on notability grounds, so I sort of shovelled in as many good critical commentary sources as possible. It's been greatly reduced now, but yes, just today I was thinking that it could probably stand to be taken out entirely.

• "Showmance" - given that the random kid is just an extra rather than a main/recurring/guest character, I think the guitar piece is more on the level of backing music. Puck's piece - you may be right, I've never really been convinced that Mark Salling was playing that either, but per WP:V we are supposed to go with what's verifiable, so unless you know of a source that conflicts with the Fox one?

I don't know... ...is the actual show itself more reliable than the official website? I remember you mentioning in response to another post that adding the exact time the song startes and finishes in the show is enough reliability for inclusion. If the song I am referring to does turn out to be "La Camisa Negra", then perhaps it should be changed... weird I know...--Coin945 (talk) 18:43, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Hm, it is an awkward one. I don't have the episode to hand to check, but if the episode does show someone else playing it, then yeah, we can cite the time it happens and change it, I think. I actually have a feeling they might both play it - I'm sure I recall Puck playing it by the pool in a cutaway scene, and then it goes back to Will playing for Puck and Finn (though whether it is "La Camisa Negra" he's playing, I'm not sure!). Frickative 19:37, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

• At one point I did consider limiting the list to just what Fox put on their music recap pages, but they do miss out quite a lot. Mostly the songs we only hear a few bars of, but some others that are more surprising - "Rid wit Me", for instance, which makes most reviewers' top 10 performance lists. For "Sectionals" they mention one Jane Addams song but not the other, so it is a bit hit and miss! I think as long as the performances are reliably sourced, they're okay. WP:SPOILER very specifically states that information shouldn't be removed because it is a spoiler, nor should warnings be given. If readers chose to continue reading under the "Hell-O" or "Future Songs" headers, for example, it's pretty much a given that they should expect spoilers.
• As for year of release, I actually thought you meant year of original release by the Glee cast, which was then added into the chart tables, so that was a misunderstanding on my part, sorry!

I hope I replied to everything there, sorry if I missed any points out. I'll get back to editing the list in my sandbox, try moving the single information into "Notes", and probably also take out the reviews. Nixing them will certainly cut the page loading time, at least! Frickative 06:30, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I am also wondering about the possible overlap between the "List of songs in glee", "Music of Glee" and the new "Glee discography" articles. Is any intended? I feel it is already confusing to distinguish between them. Perhaps a solution is making "List of songs in glee" a straight list (until it becomes too hectic!), the "Music of Glee" becoming "Glee Albums" or something like that (listing the tracklists for each one and critical responses) - information about the music itself has already been stated in the title page so it is probably redundant in the article anyway (any surplus info could possibly be shifted back to Glee (TV series), and the "Glee discography" article stating the chartings for all the different songs.--Coin945 (talk) 18:43, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

You're right, it is a bit confusing, so reducing the overlap should help clarify what each of the articles are actually for. I'm working on all three of them at the moment, and I think I'm pretty much aiming for exactly what you're saying. I have a feeling Music of Glee might be becoming a bit redundant, as each of the albums are probably notable enough for their own articles, but for the time being I am editing it to focus just on the albums, tracklists, critical response, release dates etc. All the singles chart info etc will be moved over to the Glee Cast discography. List of songs in Glee should be almost entirely a straight list, with the exception of the lead. The lead at the moment is pretty much a copy-paste of the "Music" section from Music of Glee, which in turn is nearly a copy of the "Music" section of Glee (TV series). Not all of it is relevant to this page, so I'll cut that back. What's left should be a concise introduction to the list, without replicating too much detail. And Glee Cast discography will obviously, as you say, be for the chart information. Fingers crossed it'll be a bit clearer when I'm done! Frickative 19:37, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I just noticed that at the end of the lead, it states "The score of the show features a cappella covers of instrumental songs, provided in the pilot episode by The Swingle Singers." This is not entirely true as there are instrumental songs and pop songs, as well as Don't Make Me Over, which are also kind of "score" pieces. Perhaps some tweaking??

Also I think this instrumental piece is notable enough for inclusion in the article - it recurs numerous times throught the season (well, half-season) and it has become a sort of "Emma + Will" theme throught the show. It is entitiled "Looking Back": [4].

If you want a copy of Acafellas to have a quick check, I've got all the episodes with me so i can send it over to you. I don't know the song very well so i won't be able to pick it up..--Coin945 (talk) 21:41, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Also, not really relevant but it was my birthday on the 11th :)

You're right about the score, and I'll tweak the wording to reflect that it's just the pilot that's a cappella only (I think!) - it's just a bit of an awkward one to expand on, because I haven't read any sources discussing the background music. I did read an interview somewhere with the artist behind "Looking Back" about Glee, so I'll see if I can find that, then use some details from there.

Thanks for the offer re: Acafellas - I actually loaded a copy up online to check, and it didn't really clarify things! It seems that Puck doesn't play it at all, which is odd. It just plays in the background of his cutaway scene. Then Will plays something on the guitar with Finn and Puck, but he plays it for less than five seconds, so I really can't tell whether it's the same song or not. Do you think we should just take it out of the table entirely? I could maybe move it up to the lead as its one of the few backing pieces we have a source on, maybe re-word something along the lines of:

The score of the pilot episode features a capella covers of instrumental songs performed by The Swingle Sisters. The remainder of the series background music features various instrumental and pop songs, including Juanes' "La Camisa Negra", and an instrumental version of Dionne Warwick's "Don't Make Me Over".

They're the only pieces that I know there are sources for, though obviously I can then add in details of "Looking Back" when I find that interview, and it can always be expanded on in future if other sources are published which cover the backing music.

And a belated happy birthday! Hope you had a good one :D Frickative 00:06, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

I've found this: [5] if its any help but besides that, nothing.--Coin945 (talk) 19:06, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Honestly I don't know what FOX is referring to. My best bet it that Mark Salling in fact did play/record that song but the track is only played in the background in the actual show. I guess we could send a message to FOX and see what they say. otherwise i think that tweaked line works quite well.--Coin945 (talk) 19:06, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Also what do you think in regards to me linking all the episodes on the "List of songs in Glee page? I found that an much easier to access the episodes mentioned in the article. --Coin945 (talk) 19:06, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

One more thing - does it matter that the info about the songs on the "list of songs in glee" and the "music of glee" ages don't match up?? Does the former page need info about song lengths or song writers? Similarly does the latterpage need info on who sung the song?--Coin945 (talk) 19:06, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

I know I'm may just being pedantic and I think this is the relevant place to put this but back to the score/instrumental versions of songs... ummm in the pilot there is "Flight of the Bumblebee" (when Rachel is walking down the hallway and when she is watching Sandy... "sing" the song from Oliver) which sounds like it's being sung by a choir. Also "Don't Worry, Be Happy" is played on the Jamaican drums and Sue's "theme" of "O Fortuna". And the instrumental of "Don't Rain On My Parade" returns in "Hell-O". Just a thought but I guess the list will increase substantially if people started listing all the songs played in the background. Granted the first two only appeared in the Pilot and Sue's thoughout the first half of season 1 but the songs were probably the same length as Respect and I Kissed A Girl which have been mentioned. Sorry I don't know how to sign the end of this note. :) 125.239.237.57 (talk) 08:48, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually I figured out how to sign at the end. Hah! Good old reading does help every so often... But I've had a thought about what I said... if here is not a place for the songs above to be mentioned... maybe the individual episodes that they appeared in respectively? 125.239.237.57 (talk) 08:48, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi! The reason that background music isn't listed is that for the most part it's not really notable. There are some exceptions, though - given that Madonna licensed her entire catalogue of music to the show for the tribute episode, which in itself is notable, we do mention which ones were used in the background in "The Power of Madonna". If there are other notable examples that have been discussed in reliable sources, then feel free to add them to the "Production" sections of the episode articles :) Frickative 10:40, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Wrt linking - you're right that navigation to the episode articles needs to be easier, but WP:HEAD says that section headers shouldn't really be wikilinked. Before, there used to be a 'The following songs were performed in "Whatever Episode":' before each table, which we could put back in to link to them, but it might possibly look a bit redundant and repetitive when the rest of the article is just a straight list? Another alternative is maybe linking the episodes in the tables, something like:

"Vitamin D"
Title	Original version	Performed by	Notes	Ref
"It's My Life" / "Confessions Part II"	Bon Jovi / Usher	New Directions males	Released as singles
"Halo" / "Walking on Sunshine"	Beyoncé / Katrina and the Waves	New Directions females

I don't know, it definitely does need to be easier though. It's a pain scrolling up and down all the time to the links in the bottom navbox.

That's a nice suggestion but i think having the titles in the same coloumns as the rest of the graph might be distracting. What if the "Episodes" became the left-most coloum of the graph? Would that be any better?--Coin945 (talk) 21:21, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Wait a second, this might actually be the optimum layout for the page. I mentioned earlier on that sooner or later, this page will get very packed with informatin and will be hard to navigate through. HAve you seen those graphs where you click a button in the corner and that part of the graph "folds out"? i think attatching one of those to each episode with the style you have just proposed might be the best way to go.--Coin945 (talk) 21:25, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Ooh, I know what you mean. I've just tried to do it and failed, but I'm sure I could figure it out given enough time. The album tracklists on Music of Glee are all collapsible, though they start out opened up. I think that's a good idea! It's perhaps best to do it so that when the page loads all the tables are open, otherwise readers less familiar with Wikipedia might think they've loaded a basically empty page, but if they could be closed up at the click of a button that would certainly make the layout easier to navigate. I'll have another go and reply again if I manage to get it right, haha. Frickative 21:49, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Aha, got it! So they'd look like this collapsed:

"Vitamin D"
Title	Original version	Performed by	Notes	Ref
"It's My Life" / "Confessions Part II"	Bon Jovi / Usher	New Directions males	Released as singles
"Halo" / "Walking on Sunshine"	Beyoncé / Katrina and the Waves	New Directions females

And this opened up:

"Vitamin D"
Title	Original version	Performed by	Notes	Ref
"It's My Life" / "Confessions Part II"	Bon Jovi / Usher	New Directions males	Released as singles
"Halo" / "Walking on Sunshine"	Beyoncé / Katrina and the Waves	New Directions females

Pretty handy, I think! Frickative 21:54, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Re: Matching info - I'm not entirely sure, to be honest. With 'List of songs in Glee', I think the most pertinent information is who sung the song originally, as the recording artist will likely be the most recognisable name to the casual reader. If they want to know who wrote it etc. they can just click through to the article on the song. Song lengths are tricky and probably best to be avoided. Only the ones released as singles or album tracks will have lengths listed on iTunes/album sleeves, and for all the other songs, the only way to know would be to sit and time each one, which is very open to edit conflicts as one editor's 2 minutes 45 seconds is another editor's 2 minutes 47... 'Music of Glee' always did used to have info on who sang the songs, though. I think that's quite important, and I'm not sure when or why it was removed. My laptop crashed yesterday and I lost all the work I'd been doing on the article, so perhaps when I re-do it I'll add that information back in. Frickative 19:44, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh sorry to hear about that.. it must be irritating to have to start all over again.--Coin945 (talk) 21:21, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is the correct terminology or not, but after investigating the "edit this page" article of "List of songs in Glee", I now understand what I am referring to as "wikitable sortable". Anyway, that's not important. The point is that I was wondering if you were going to include this ability in the new graphs? I was wondering if it was necessary of not.--Coin945 (talk) 11:57, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

The new notes column is incompatible with a sortable table. It's a nice feature, but when you click to sort, the new column makes it go haywire. Luckily, sortable tables are only necessary when they're long tables, and even the longest one here is less than one screen view. Frickative 13:48, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Title	Original version	Performed by	Notes	Ref
"Dancing with Myself"	Billy Idol	Artie Abrams (Kevin McHale)	Released as singles Included on Glee: The Music, Volume 1
"Defying Gravity"	Wicked	Kurt Hummel (Chris Colfer), Rachel Berry (Lea Michele)
"Proud Mary"	Creedence Clearwater Revival / Ike & Tina Turner	New Directions	Released as a single Included on Glee: The Music, Volume 2

Duly noted. Just bringing forward any possible suggestions I can to make the page better. I would have spared you time by creating these tables myself but unfortunately I have very little experience with such things.. ..--Coin945 (talk) 14:12, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

No worries! And argh, I didn't realise I'd broken all the tables in my user space! Thanks for the fixes. I was just about to move the changes into the main article as well, oops. Frickative 14:21, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I think it might also help if the titles of the episode were a colour other than white - something that stands out. Also, what do you think about getting rid of the headings altogether? That way when "folding up" the various parts of the table, you arn't left with a very confusing "edit, show, edit, show" pattern on the right-hand side.--Coin945 (talk) 14:26, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I think getting rid of headings altogether would make navigation harder, as people wouldn't be able to use the TOC to navigate, they'd just have to scroll through the whole thing to find the section they were looking for. Changing the title bar colour is a good idea, I'll give that a go. Frickative 14:33, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

...and maybe also altering the font size of the various parts of table may be handy.--Coin945 (talk) 14:44, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Which parts? The tables are currently at 95% font size so that the content doesn't spill over onto multiple lines as far as possible, but to change that, you just need to alter this part in the first line:

class="wikitable collapsible" width=100% style="font-size:95%; text-align:center;"

I've moved the changes across now, and if you want to change the colour of the title bar, then it's this bit:

!colspan="5" style="background:#B4CDCD"|Future songs

There's a list of different hex codes here, I just got fed up of trying to find a colour that worked after a dozen different codes, so went with one that looked okayish. Frickative 14:54, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Well in particular I meant the titles of the episodes. They just seem a bit... small. Thats all.--Coin945 (talk) 15:08, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Graph Colours

"Vitamin D"
Title	Original version	Performed by	Notes	Ref
"It's My Life" / "Confessions Part II"	Bon Jovi / Usher	New Directions males	Released as singles
"Halo" / "Walking on Sunshine"	Beyoncé / Katrina and the Waves	New Directions females

"Vitamin D"
Title	Original version	Performed by	Notes	Ref
"It's My Life" / "Confessions Part II"	Bon Jovi / Usher	New Directions males	Released as singles
"Halo" / "Walking on Sunshine"	Beyoncé / Katrina and the Waves	New Directions females

"Vitamin D"
Title	Original version	Performed by	Notes	Ref
"It's My Life" / "Confessions Part II"	Bon Jovi / Usher	New Directions males	Released as singles
"Halo" / "Walking on Sunshine"	Beyoncé / Katrina and the Waves	New Directions females

"Vitamin D"
Title	Original version	Performed by	Notes	Ref
"It's My Life" / "Confessions Part II"	Bon Jovi / Usher	New Directions males	Released as singles
"Halo" / "Walking on Sunshine"	Beyoncé / Katrina and the Waves	New Directions females

Is there any way to make the font size of the episodes larger than the rest of the table?--Coin945 (talk) 15:19, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I really like the colour in the third example! And it is possible but it might take a fair bit of coding - I'm just trying to figure it out now.Frickative 15:26, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Sorted! It was actually easier than I thought, I think I was overcomplicating things. The code is as below: Frickative 15:35, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

"Vitamin D"
Title	Original version	Performed by	Notes	Ref
"It's My Life" / "Confessions Part II"	Bon Jovi / Usher	New Directions males	Released as singles
"Halo" / "Walking on Sunshine"	Beyoncé / Katrina and the Waves	New Directions females

Awesome!! I did one little tweak with disambiguation though! You're so clever :D--Coin945 (talk) 15:37, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Great, cheers for the disambig! I'll change the tables in the list now. I'm pleased by how much quicker it's loading with the changes done, it took forever before. Frickative 16:04, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

References

Guitar Background Song

Hey guys, after looking at the overall presentation of this, I thought I would throw this at the end. Above it has been mentioned before that at 00:58 S1E02 there is a kid playing a guitar, and it seems it was not chosen to be listed in the music of Glee. Myself and a few other people around the internet have been trying to name this song that he is playing, to no avail. If not to go on the main page, can anyone answer as to the name of the song that its from? I get the feeling its around the days of The Police, or that era. I have found a few songs like it, but I know when you name it, it will sound perfectly like it. Heck I can sing the guitar chords in my head, just can't think of the words that come with it. Jameshillyer 16:53, 19 October 2010 (UTC)