Talk:List of sigils of demons

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Inclusion of Baphomet's sigil

In the past, the Sigil of Baphomet was removed from this article because "Baphomet is not a demon" and because it is a modern invention. On the first point, while Baphomet was originally a fictional being, it has become a demon in the modern understanding and in modern religion. It is considered to be a demon by Satanists and other occultists, even if it is a semi-modern invention. On the second point, I don't see why its origins from a modern religion should exclude it from being part of a list containing sigils of demons, if it is in fact a sigil representing a theological demon. By definition it should be included in the article. I will add it back, and if anybody has any objections please reply to this discussion so that we may discuss it. Di (they-them) (talk) 22:11, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Di (they-them): I've seen Baphomet referred to as a deity, god, devil, Satan, and genie, but not a "demon". Can you can provide a source for Baphomet being referred to as a demon? Also I don't care if the origins are from a modern religion, but I don't really understand why The Church of Satan is calling it a sigil, nor do they explain this on their website. Sigils have a specific meaning and purpose in magic. The Church of Satan doesn't really believe in magic or demons, so their use of both the term "sigil" and the figure of Baphomet are basically just appropriations cobbled together to evoke a sinister facade. It's all a bit tongue-in-cheek with those Satanists. I'm reluctant to include something that is only called a sigil facetiously. Nosferattus (talk) 00:25, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Nosferattus: According to the Wikipedia article Baphomet, it is sometimes referred to as a deity or demon, which is cited from Pornographic Archaeology: Medicine, Medievalism, and the Invention of the French Nation by Zrinka Stahuljak. It's also commonly known as a demon in popular consciousness and popular culture. As an example of this, CNBC calls it "a demon god". As far as it being facetious, modern Satanists may not take it seriously, but the symbol originated with Stanislas de Guaita who did take magic seriously. Di (they-them) (talk) 02:17, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Di (they-them): I read the entire cited section of the book and couldn't find anything about Baphomet being a demon. And yes, I know the symbol originated with Stanislas de Guaita, but it's a pentacle, not a sigil. The only people who call it a sigil are the Church of Satan and that's because they don't really care. The only reason they adopted the symbol is because Anton LaVey saw it on the cover of a book about magic and thought it looked cool. We shouldn't consider the Church of Satan as a reliable source on demonology, which used to be a serious topic among theologians and occultists. I can understand your desire to include the symbol for the sake of thoroughness, but to me it degrades the legitimacy of the list since it isn't a sigil and Baphomet was never considered a demon (other than in popular culture). Nosferattus (talk) 04:20, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]