Talk:List of people who have gone over Niagara Falls

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First person over the falls?

I have just created a rather substantive article on Carlisle Graham in which historic newspapers suggest he was in fact the first person over the falls in 1899 and survive, in a wooden barrel similar to the claimed first person Annie Edson Taylor in 1901. Do the facts of the current article need to be reassessed? At the very least, Graham surely needs a mention on the article as currently he isn't mentioned at all, though it's quite a significant change to implement given it calls in to question the authenticity of the currently stated facts. Bungle ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:41, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Bungle: I've drafted up an entry for Graham in the table, but in looking for sources I've found the following:

After completing four successful trips through the rapids Carlisle Graham became famous. With his new found fame, Graham announced that he would ride his barrel over the falls, although this plan was never carried out
— https://www.niagarafallsinfo.com/niagara-falls-history/niagara-falls-tourism-history/daredevils-of-niagara-falls/carlisle-d-graham/

What doubt does this cast over the veracity of it all? MIDI (talk) 08:43, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm also confused by the sentence "Although Graham was the first person to go over the falls and survive, he did not venture over the Horseshoe Falls" in the Carlisle Graham article. The sources that backup the claim he went over the falls say he went over the Horseshoe Falls, from what I can see. Can you shed any light? MIDI (talk) 08:52, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@MIDI: Seemingly, he went through the falls, although not "over" them? I am unsure quite what the difference is myself, as I cannot distinguish between the two event types. While I think he deserves a mention on the article, especially as it seems to be that Annie used his barrel (and they are buried next to each other), I don't quite know how best to incorporate that most effectively. Bungle ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:18, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Pinoccappuccino: I observe you uncommented the entry for Carlisle Graham for inclusion into the table, however I wondered if you read or were aware of the above discussion (albeit from 2yrs ago) prior to doing so? The matter itself never seemed to be concluded but unsure if that's cause to include as the first survival, without us being absolutely sure this is the case. Bungle ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:21, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

3Falls Niagara.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:35, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Suicides at the Falls

This article in the American Journal of Public Health (https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.81.12.1677-a) contains hard data on suicide rates for two time periods:

"During the 11-year period from 1978 to 1988, 60 suicides jumped from the American side and 81 jumped from the Canadian side. This total of 141 suicides and average of 12.8 each year..."
An "...average of 7.1 reported by Lester and Brockopp for the period from 1958 to 1967 (Lester D, Brockopp GW. Niagara Falls suicides. JAMA. 1971;215:797-798).

Both of these rates are much lower than reported in this article.

Also, in Niagara: a History of the Falls, by Pierre Burton (1992), on pg. 258, Burton writes, "By 1900, close to one thousand men and women were known to have hurled themselves into the abyss..." This article says that "Since 1850, more than 5,000 people have gone over Niagara Falls..." with a citation to the NYFalls.com website; which is a tourist website and (IMHO) not very authoritative.

I don't want to arbitrarily edit this article; what do others think of the suicide stats on this page?

Christopher Rath (talk) 02:00, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've updated—Burton source taken in good faith as I don't have access. What you've said is reasonable so hopefully what I've added works—I've (for now) left in the NYCFalls source (no judgment on its WP:RS-ness). MIDI (talk) 10:47, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a Google Books search that returns the Burton quote: https://www.google.com/search?q=Niagara+a+history+of+the+falls+%22By+1900%2C+close+to+one+thousand+men%22&sca_esv=588364199&tbm=bks&sxsrf=AM9HkKnQgAXesn1Uug4Q_Cbq5jhV_yRWXg%3A1701870193705&ei=cXpwZb_EKpqt5NoPq-2Q0AM&ved=0ahUKEwj_wOXC-PqCAxWaFlkFHas2BDoQ4dUDCAk&uact=5&oq=Niagara+a+history+of+the+falls+%22By+1900%2C+close+to+one+thousand+men%22&gs_lp=Eg1nd3Mtd2l6LWJvb2tzIkNOaWFnYXJhIGEgaGlzdG9yeSBvZiB0aGUgZmFsbHMgIkJ5IDE5MDAsIGNsb3NlIHRvIG9uZSB0aG91c2FuZCBtZW4iSJ2fAlD29QFY9ZoCcAB4AJABAJgBlQGgAboEqgEDMS40uAEDyAEA-AEB-AECiAYB&sclient=gws-wiz-books

Christopher Rath (talk) 14:08, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]