Talk:List of most-played college football series in NCAA Division I

This article was nominated for deletion on 20 December 2012 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

List of most-played college football series in NCAA Division I is a former featured list candidate. Please view the link under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. Once the objections have been addressed you may resubmit the article for featured list status.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
December 11, 2011	Featured list candidate	Not promoted

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featured list nomination

Deletion rationale

SEE Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.90.216.96 (talk) 17:47, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Most played rivalries in NCAA Division I FBS page is an important page for college football enthusiasts around the country and the only page offered, of its kind, on the Internet that I am aware of. I see it regularly referenced on college football talk message boards all over the websphere and, as a matter of fact, I see it being used as a reference point in a conversation on at least two different college football message boards today. The Most played rivalries in NCAA Division I FBS is also an excellent portal page to Wiki, when linked on the various sites, for users that might find other sites of interest relating to the college football program which they support. In other words, it drives traffic to the entire wikipedia organization. I would ask that the page not be deleted, but rather improved. Scrooster (talk) 19:27, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

PS: I was just reminded that the page has been used as a source of reference, just recently, during Rivalries Weekend on ESPN. Scrooster (talk) 19:41, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You have to make your comments on the deletion page or the deletion trolls will erase the whole thing. There is no reason delete this article. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Most played rivalries in NCAA Division I FBS — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.33.85.214 (talk) 11:43, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thanks. :) Scrooster (talk) 18:28, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Adopting this orphan - keeping it current

I am willing to adopt this page and bring it current and accurate with the assurance that my time spent bringing it up-to-date and keeping it current will not be wasted by a Deletion in the near future. Scrooster (talk) 19:40, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Contested deletion

This page should not be speedily deleted because it is presently also in WP:AFD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Most played rivalries in NCAA Division I FBS where one editor has taken a position of Keep. The AFD process should be completed. --Paul McDonald (talk) 23:02, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is why the quality of the article is BS. An edit made to update only ONE rivalry, and the editor moved the rivalry up in the table so that the table is now in the wrong order (he/she assumed that all the other entries were up to date when deciding where to move the entry he/she edited). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.90.216.96 (talk) 04:32, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Rivalry and trophy

I have updated the table to include both the rivalry name and the trophy name where appropriate. I think this could be further improved, but I'm not sure what direction to take it. Here are some ideas (with ** indicating the current status quo):

Data available for the particular rivalry	Column header to be used in the table
Data available for the particular rivalry	Rivalry or trophy name **	Rivalry (Trophy name)	Trophy name (rivalry name)
Generic rivalry	UX-XSU football rivalry Baylor–TCU football rivalry	UX-XSU football rivalry Baylor–TCU football rivalry	(UX-XSU football rivalry) (Baylor–TCU football rivalry)
Trophy only	Thingummy bob trophy Paul Bunyan's Axe	(Thingummy bob trophy) (Paul Bunyan's Axe)	Thingummy bob trophy Paul Bunyan's Axe
Trophy and rivalry	Thingummy (Bob Battle) Platypus Trophy (Civil War)	Bob Battle (Thingummy) Civil War (Platypus Trophy)	Thingummy (Bob Battle) Platypus Trophy (Civil War)
Rivalry only	Bob Battle Border War	Bob Battle Border War	(Bob Battle) (Border War)

Or maybe this is a better way to look at it

Column header to be used in the table	Data available for the particular rivalry
Column header to be used in the table	Generic rivalry	Trophy only	Trophy & rivalry	Rivalry only
Rivalry or trophy name **	UX-XSU football rivalry Baylor–TCU football rivalry	Thingummy bob trophy Paul Bunyan's Axe	Thingummy (Bob Battle) Platypus Trophy (Civil War)	Bob Battle Border War
Rivalry (Trophy name)	UX-XSU football rivalry Baylor–TCU football rivalry	(Thingummy bob trophy) (Paul Bunyan's Axe)	Bob Battle (Thingummy) Civil War (Platypus Trophy)	Bob Battle Border War
Trophy name (rivalry name)	(UX-XSU football rivalry) (Baylor–TCU football rivalry)	Thingummy bob trophy Paul Bunyan's Axe	Thingummy (Bob Battle) Platypus Trophy (Civil War)	(Bob Battle) (Border War)

Any ideas which of the following options is preferable (shown here as the column title)

Rivalry (Trophy name)
Trophy name (rivalry name)

Any other ideas are most welcome YBG (talk) 15:05, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Expansion to include FCS (rivalries missing from list)

A user expanded the scope of this article to cover all of Division I (instead of just FBS) in July 2016. But nobody has ever added all of the FCS rivalries to the list (I have added a few). The complete list according to the NCAA is found here: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/2016/FCS.pdf. Either all of this information should be added to the list, or alternatively, the article should be reverted to cover only FBS – I don't have a preference as to which happens. –Kgwo1972 (talk)

All the games have been added, but someone has tried to delete them because doesn't consider them "rivalry-worthy" because there is no corresponding Wikipedia page. Deanrah (talk) 02:52, 22 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Vacated Games and Reliability of Sources

As I researched this list, I came to understand that there is a paradox with the NCAA's treatment of vacated games. The official policy for Sports Information Officials of NCAA schools ^[1] distinguishes between vacated and forfeited games. Vacated games result from off-field administrative rulings that typically means that a player is ruled ineligible. In these cases, the NCAA sometimes rules that a team must vacate all its wins and ties (and championships, for instance in the case of 2010 Ohio State). The document states that the opposing team's record does not change. Therefore, the record of wins, losses, and ties would not add up to the total number of games played. Obviously, the total games played is the purpose for this list. For some reason, there was an extra column in the table that was not being used. Therefore, I have used the column to record "vacated" games so that the columns add up to the number of games played, while relying on NCAA standards. The paradox comes into play when looking at how the NCAA lists "most played rivalries" in its own record book. In that publication, the vacated games are not reflected in the win totals. The most reliable source for win-loss-tie records using the NCAA rules is Winsipedia.com. I have tested several cases of vacated games and found the data there to be extremely reliable, although not perfect.

Deanrah (talk) 00:18, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Also, see Wikipedia:WikiProject College football/Vacated victories re same. UW Dawgs (talk) 01:33, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Statistics Policies and Guidelines" (PDF). Retrieved November 18, 2019.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)

Ranking in Table

Having a ranking in the table seems unnecessary since it is sortable by number of games. Deanrah (talk) 00:48, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, should be removed. UW Dawgs (talk) 18:40, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The name of this article should be changed to reflect actual content

This list has value independent of listing rivalry games. It lists all college football games played in a given series where 100 or more games have been played. One definition could be that any series played over 100 times would defacto be a rivalry game. However, there is alternative thinking that games listed as rivalries would necessarily have independent Wikipedia articles associated with them. If the word rivalry is used in this list, as well as the associated list called List of NCAA college football rivalry games, then there is a conflict. Deanrah (talk) 19:10, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Both cited 2019 FBS and 2019 FCS record books have a section header of "MOST PLAYED RIVALRIES." WP:PRIMARYSOURCE aside, that is the extent of the NCAA's content and context. While a stand-alone (and cited) wiki "rivalry" article is absolutely not required, it aligns with WG:GNG. As such, I have removed some of these new rows from the table. UW Dawgs (talk) 00:19, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is no reason to have two lists that are filtered by the same requirement: that the game have a separate wikipedia article. We now have 1) an article that lists any rivalry without regard to frequency that is filtered by having a separate wikipedia article and 2) one article that is those same games filtered the requirement that it has been played 100 times. I request that the two lists be allowed to be independent of one another and that the "rivalry" part be removed from the title of the one that requires over 100 games played. I suggest it be called "List of NCAA Division I college football series records." Would you please let me have a go at the series list UW Dawgs? It is very important to my research, and I believe it has unique content when compiled in one place. I have reverted some changes so that they can be restored after determining the correct path ahead.

Deanrah (talk) 01:11, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Deanrah: @UW Dawgs: I've renamed this article to "List of most-played college football series in NCAA Division I, as the list should report the most meetings between any two teams irrespective of whether those two teams have a notable "rivalry". Jweiss11 (talk) 07:40, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

All of the inbound links [1] should be reviewed and modified re the context shift, as many are predicated on or explicitly state "rivalry" context. As the sourcing was functionally scoped to the NCAA Record Book, Template:Expand list tagging may be appropriate. The sourcing, notes, and some article links remain a mess (always was the case). Merge in either direction seems preferable, with the "series" option causing less confusion. UW Dawgs (talk) 03:23, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am proposing to insert this a the end of each article that is a rivalry game played 100 or more times.

== See also ==

I also propose putting this at the end of rivalry games in Wikipedia that have not been played 100 times.

== See also ==

List of NCAA college football rivalry games

Will start December 5 if no objections Deanrah (talk) 16:49, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Results table is out of date

Citation uses a 2013 doc
Selective weekly in season edits further diverge accuracy of teams in table

UW Dawgs (talk) 19:28, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Citation is most recent version of the referenced document, and most importantly is the historical document relevant to all the vacated games. It is not out of date. Deanrah (talk)

Sunflower Showdown

I'm editing this to show the rivalry between Kansas and Kansas State as the Sunflower Showdown. Both schools call this rivalry game the "Sunflower Showdown" and not the "Kansas-Kansas State football rivalry." ^[1] ^[2]

References

New criteria for inclusion

At some point in the early 2010s the inclusion criteria was changed to "any series that has been played at least 100 times". At that time it was an accepted change, but as the years go on and more games meet the 100-game threshold we will eventually have a long list of "most played" games.

When I created this article (as the user "Latish redone") I only used the series listed in the NCAA record book, but that's only about the top 20 or so. So I don't think we need to go back to that.

But then that leaves the question, what should we use? Should we limit it to top 50 most-played series? Top 75? Top 100? WP:AS says that an appropriate maximum length for an article is about 10,000 words, but that's obviously referring to articles that are mostly prose, and I'm not aware of similar guidance for list articles other than the 30-40 minute guideline also cited (it should take no more than 30-40 minutes to read an article).

(u t c m l ) 🔒 ALL IN 🧿 17:35, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Next Game

I have added a next game column so that updating during the season is easier. This public column will also make it easy for the general public to see what games are going to be played the following week. If there is any reason this is against Wiki policies please discuss here before deleting. Deanrah (talk) 01:40, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Stop in-season reordering

It makes way more sense to avoid reordering the table during the season.

Some editors are doing this: Season starts off like

            Number of games Last game
   Series A  105             2023
   Series B  105             2023

Then series B has their game in like Sep/Oct, so they do

            Number of games Last game
   Series B  106             2024
   Series A  105             2023

Only to have to restore the correct order at the end of the season

            Number of games Last game
   Series A  106             2024
   Series B  106             2024

Just keep them in the order they were already in, unless we know that the ranking is going to change.

It doesn't make sense to change it during the season only to have to go back and change it again when the season is completed.

(Precedence for ties is to go back to when they were recently not tied, so e.g. UNC-UVA is before UGA-AU because even though it's tied since 2017, before 2017 UNC UVA was leading. Apply this same idea to all the other ties as well - go back to when it wasn't tied.) (u t c m l ) 🔒 ALL IN 🧿 00:06, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "Statistics Policies and Guidelines" (PDF). Retrieved November 18, 2019.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)

[2] ttps://www.kstatesports.com/news/2020/10/24/football-cats-cruise-in-12th-straight-sunflower-showdown-win.aspx

[3] ttps://kuathletics.com/gameday-live-at-kansas-state-102420/

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