Talk:List of minor and recurring characters from Hollyoaks

I know I should know this, but...

Under Ste's profile, his relationships section, I wanted to link to Terry Hay's page on minor characters. How do I do that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by JamesB3 (talk • contribs) 23:00, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[[List of minor characters from Hollyoaks#Terry_Hay|Terry Hay]]

Obviously replace "Terry_Hay" with whatever named character (as listed in the minor characters page, with underscores instead of spaces) when linking other characters :) ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 23:13, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Kieron Hobbs (notability discussion)

He is a main Character now.

http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/H/hollyoaks/cast/boys/kieronhobbs/index_2.html

There you go, so he should have a page of his own. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raintheone (talk • contribs) 02:01, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh look, confirmed even more as Kieron has been added to the opening titles, when the show comes on. And he is staying around. Time to make him a page, again! as he is permanent. http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/H/hollyoaks/video/clip-popup.jsp?player_id=1305025406 Raintheone (talk) 20:08, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

The new opening titles have not yet come into effect (I'm watching Friday's episode now) and he hasn't had enough significant storylines to be notable. Read the fiction guidelines, then if you think his character meets the criteria for a page, it can be re-created. ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 20:28, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I have already, when they come into effect then it should be okay to include him shouldn't it. Or even after a few episodes, as spoilers show he will be in the thick of action soon. Raintheone (talk) 20:33, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

There is more to it than that really. Just because he is a "major" character (and has an appearance in the title sequence) does not necessarily mean he is notable enough to have this own page. There are things like real-world analysis of the character, amongst other things. To be honest, most characters in Hollyoaks don't have proper pages and should probably (and could be) cleaned up. ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 20:40, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

A good page to look at is Troy McClure - that is a featured article on fiction, and should give an example of things that Hollyoaks character pages should have. ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 20:41, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I was going to ask if you thought that Aleksander Malota should still have his own page, or if he should be moved to minor characters. I'm not sure. There are some characters like Nana McQueen who aren't big characters, but their actions have had a big impact on the lives of those around them, so I never know where they should go. --JamesB3 (talk) 01:05, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

As I mentioned above, the notability guidelines for fiction should contain all that is required to determine whether or not a character is eligible for a page. I suspect that, since Aleksander has left, he should be merged into the minor characters page (he probably wasn't so minor, but his page does not really suggest notability as per the guidelines). ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 01:10, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Do you think there are any Hollyoaks character pages that meet the guidelines, or come close? Also, I was thinking of putting the "Created By" section in the infoboxes of the characters (Created by Brian Kirkwood; I'm not sure whether some of the other characters who were created before he showed up [the first character he created was Mercedes] would be credited to Phil Redmond or to Jo Hallows), like they have on the Eastenders pages. Do you think we could try that? --JamesB3 (talk) 02:02, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, I re-wrote the John Paul McQueen article recently, and tried to include a bit of "real world" context by mentioning the awards that James Sutton received for the character. We basically need to make sure that the pages don't just turn into plot summaries (which is what effectively most of the pages are!)

Regarding the "Created by", I think unless you can reliably source who created the character, it is probably best to leave it off (another reason to see the John Paul McQueen page - we should really be using the official {{Template:Infobox character}} infoboxes, not the wikitable one. ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 09:16, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I tried to add a little more to Newt's page, as he's one of the few where the producer spoke on the record about the point of the character. I don't know what to do that would take the verification tags off (are we supposed to link to episode synopses that back up the plot summaries?). If you could tell me what you think, thanks.--JamesB3 (talk) 14:49, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm a little bit annoyed at the people who keep removing Kieran Hobbs from the regular cast list. He is on the credits now. Why are you removing him?ThaGazBoi (talk) 17:14, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't think Kieron Hobbs has even been removed from the regular cast list. He is still listed on the "List of characters from Hollyoaks" page, but he is not eligible for a full page (as I've said before, here and on Talk:Hollyoaks - and there are many other character pages that aren't eligible either!), hence his character being listed here as a minor character. ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 22:54, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Photos

I've never known how to put images on a Wikipedia page. I know some of the character pages like Malachy Fisher had photos. Do you think the photos should be moved to the minor character page (the Eastenders and Corrie minor character pages have photos)? --JamesB3 (talk) 17:09, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, since they are such small sections, probably only one picture per person would be appropriate. Images can be added by typing [[Image:FILENAME]] (in their simplest form anyway). WP:IMAGES gives more guidance on how to include images. ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 23:47, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Proposed move to "List of minor and recurring characters from Hollyoaks"

Following on from the notability discussion above and "discussions" on Talk:Hollyoaks, do you think there would be consensus to move this to the above proposed title - "List of minor and recurring characters from Hollyoaks"? Some "fans" feel quite passionately that Kieron is not a minor character any longer (even though I still don't think he fits the WP:FICTION guidelines). Would changing this title perhaps ease their woes? ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 23:51, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I'd been thinking about that myself. It makes a lot of sense.--JamesB3 (talk) 10:37, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Shall I be bold and just do it? ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 10:38, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I just decided to go for it :). ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 10:46, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Nige

Should be left in the current part because he is in spoilers to come, so it means he is still current. Raintheone (talk) 08:04, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

That he may be, but he hasn't returned yet, and Wikipedia is not a place for adding spoilers. Lets him in past until he returns. ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 09:54, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Split past and present characters?

I know it might be confusing with some of the recent minor/recurring characters who still pop up sometimes but aren't listed in present, but do you think we should create a separate page for the past recurring/minor characters, like either all on one page (2004/2005-2008), or on separate pages (one page for 2005, another page for 2006, etc.)? The current page with both past and present recurring/minor characters is getting very large. I guess if it gets too much I could trim some of the more minor characters, like people who only appeared for a day. --JamesB3 (talk) 11:09, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Considering the list is so big, I suspect there could be a case for splitting them up. ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 11:56, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad you felt the way I did. I'm not sure how the whole thing would work (I guess the Eastenders pages could be a template) but I think it's a good idea. Do you think the past characters should all be on one page, or split up on separate pages per year? --JamesB3 (talk) 12:38, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd say just the one page. I don't think Hollyoaks has so many past characters that it will need separate year pages. ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 13:10, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I split the page. If there's any corrections or changes you think need to be made, feel free. --JamesB3 (talk) 19:32, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Nice one. ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 21:02, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I wasn't entirely sure if I put down the right stuff, so I'm glad if it worked. I may add Aleksander Malota to the list, I keep forgetting about him. Do you think Leah Barnes should be added to the recurring section? --JamesB3 (talk) 21:54, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeh, I think Aleksander and Leah should be added to their respective pages. There are probably other characters that could have that done to them too at some point. ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 03:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I added Leah and Aleksander, as well as Simon Crosby. I'm not sure if there are any others to move. I also added a few references to some of the entries, do you think the references help or do they just get in the way? --JamesB3 (talk) 15:10, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

No, references help us prove that the articles are notable enough and can be kept in the main article space. Without the references (especially 3rd party references) then the article can be subject to deletion. ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 15:15, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

At first I thought someone might say, "If you don't have references for everyone then don't put them for a few," but I thought that was a good way to lead people to more information about some of the characters, especially the minor characters who are playing a big part in current stories, like Niall or Kieron. I guess the Channel 4 site doesn't count as third party though, or maybe it does? --JamesB3 (talk) 15:21, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, I don't think the Channel 4 site is particularly 3rd party, but it is a source nonetheless. Even if you don't have references for everyone, the few references that we have just help to support what is there already. Digital Spy might be a good site to check for 3rd party sources, and I think we still need some "real life" influences to the stories. For example, the awards for the John Paul/Craig storyline would add notability to their articles. ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 15:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Niall

Why is he on this page? I'm going to find notability and move it. Raintheone (talk) 11:08, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Please see WP:FICTION before moving any characters off this page. ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 11:31, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Do you think we should move him to his own page now, since his story is going to start accelerating soon? [1] --JamesB3 (talk) 07:51, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, I don't know. I've not read the article (I've ready enough spoilers already...) but I'd wait a little until the story line actually starts... ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 08:52, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

OK. I'll update his profile when I get a chance. I guess I was worried his profile might start getting too long and people would wonder why he was in the recurring/minor section. --JamesB3 (talk) 20:45, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Based on the past week of episodes, do you think it's time to give Niall his own page yet? --JamesB3 (talk) 03:04, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Eli

This would probably always be original research, but it occurs to me that Eli isn't 'real'. It seems a few other people think the same. Any way of mentioning the possibility in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by LaFoiblesse (talk • contribs) 16:00, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Not really, because it is speculation. Unless it later transpires that he isn't "real", then it can be added to the relevant section. ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 18:34, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Can it not even be mentioned that he has never interacted with any character other than Newt and appears suddenly wherever Newt is... and let the reader put 2 and 2 together? LaFoiblesse (talk 18:10 2008-06-19 (GMT)

No, because it is still original research. Like I said, if it late transpires he isn't real, then it can be commented on. ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 18:15, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

A statement of a fact that is quite plainly visible to anyone watching the programme is not original research. Besides, this has just become academic. Feel free to mention Eli's "shocking" (..I don't think) vaporization in the article.LaFoiblesse (talk 18:29 2008-06-19 (GMT)

Eli once said 'you want to watch yourself' to Niall so Niall must of seen him and also Eli was outside the pub chatting to some teenage boys once so how can you explain that no one sees him and he's part of Newt's imagination? Weatherbed (talk) 20:21, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Eli spoke to people, but they would never speak back.(talk 21:25 2008-06-22 (GMT)

The people he talked to saw Newt say it. I think we should merge this into Newt's section. Thoughts? 82.3.171.171 (talk) 16:59, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

New Character

Laila/Leila not sure how it's spelt has made her onscreen appearence now, she is a regular. Saying that she is a minor at the moment so should be added to the page, she is Ravi's sister.

Kieron has evolved into a real solid regular now too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raintheone (talk • contribs) 01:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Niall (again)

I asked this above but thought it might have gotten lost under the more recent entries. Do you think Niall should be moved to a regular character section yet? I think his entry could be expanded somewhat but then that would take up too much room on the recurring page. --JamesB3 (talk) 21:09, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Since I asked several times and there wasn't a response, I decided to move Niall to his own page. He's been a major character most of this year, and I included the references to try to make sure it wasn't just a plot summary. --JamesB3 (talk) 23:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Val

Since Val has had more to do lately, do you think she should still be on this page? I'm not entirely sure with her, Kieron, or Niall. --JamesB3 (talk) 20:06, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Malachy, Ravi, Laila

They're all fairly prominent characters now, Ravi and Laila even have an entire family coming in. Should they get their own pages?