Talk:List of unsuccessful terrorist plots in the United States post-9/11

The List

I created this list because I thought it would be helpful in organizing the list of foiled plots. All the items on the list do in fact have their own articles. When I created this list I knew it was in need of expansion but that is not a criteria for deletion. If that was the case all stub articles would be deleted. The IP who placed the prod even suggested that he would like to see the article be kept. I will try to expand the list in a few days.--STX 18:48, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd encourage you to take the tag down when you have time to work on it then. --69.218.57.86 (talk) 22:17, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

This is all a list copied from one source. If it stays up it should need citations from other sources for each of the plots foiled; it would also be good to look at plots before 2001 such as the LAX bomb plot for NYE 2000, and the 1993 WTC plot (though I guess the definition of "foiled" would be contested there). What about the flight that was crashed into pennsylvania dirt on 9/11; wasn't that technically "foiled" also? I worry about a list like this because it is entirely speculative. Some of it - like Padilla's alleged "dirty bomb" plot - turns out to be nonsense, yet it's still listed here. And why only terrorist plots by Islamists? How about Irv Rubin's conspiracy to bomb a mosque and a senator's office? How about the white supremacist terrorists who were caught with chemical weapons in Texas in 2002? I worry that a list like this is cited elsewhere on Wikipedia for POV purposes and that if it is going to be about terrorist plots it should not just be about post-9/11 Islamist plots. csloat (talk) 19:37, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Why don't you just expand the list instead of complaining? Anybody can edit wikipedia. --STX 04:02, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Because I don't see the point of this article at all and I was hoping whoever wrote it would help explain. See what Wikipedia is not. We don't have List of foiled terrorist plots on Israel or List of foiled terrorist plots in Kashmir or List of foiled terrorist plots in Sri Lanka even though all three of those lists would be far longer than this one. We don't have a working definition of "foiled" or "plot" and thus we include non-plots like the Padilla allegations. The way this is presented looks completely POV as explained above. And there is only one source cited here, so the article is basically a summary of that one source. Sure, I could add sources, but then this becomes essentially original research. I don't mean to be an armchair critic, and I appreciate the work that was put into this, but I am just wondering if there is a way to make this article comport with Wikipedia policies at all. csloat (talk) 19:56, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

The article is lacking in its current form, but thats why there are a number of tags up. I'd edit the article myself but don't find myself knowledgable on the topic.. --68.23.10.26 (talk) 04:17, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

A few weeks/days ago I said I would expand the article and I will do so eventually but if somebody else wants to expand the article, I strongly encourage it.--STX 04:22, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Embassies

Would this include US diplomatic facilities abroad that are considered US territory? See Terrorist attacks on U.S. diplomatic facilities - some attacks against US facilities are foiled. Mikebar (talk) 07:58, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Great idea

"List of foiled terrorist attempts"

I think this is a great idea. Many of us keep track of what we've DONE during the year, not what our New Year's Resolutions were. It's a great way to feel good about the day, too. I'm listening to John Brennan on CNN and wondering how well our post-9/11 system is working. Without revealing HOW plots were discovered or foiled, the 3 letter agencies should publish their successes in a cumulative list. No, it's not McNamara's "body count" mis-guided metrics, but a chance to SEE what benefits are coming from the huge investment in post-9/11 systems. Too often, it seems like we throw money at the barn AFTER the cows are out. I LIKE the idea of running lists of accomplishments for Congress, TSA, CIA, FBI, etc. Let's find out what we can celebrate. And of course scrutinze the list and make sure it's not padded. I don't know STX and I agree with having this list on the web. If not wikiPedia, where? If WP is moving from encyclopedia to current events, great--let's edit and modify this list. 75.75.1.38 (talk) 14:21, 3 January 2010 (UTC)JGSC, Charlottesville, VA, January 3, 2010.

Title problem

Either this article should be retitled List of foiled Islamic terrorist plots in the United States since September 11, 2001 or, as indicated above, it should be expanded to cover prior plots and plots from others.

Also note that the article is a near orphan. Wasted Time R (talk) 04:04, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm expanding it. Currently it covers post-9/11, eventually there will be a pre-9/11 section. Unless there are others I have missed, these are all the plots from this time period. It just so happens they are all related to Islamic terrorism with the exception of the plot concerning Michael Curtis Reynolds. --William S. Saturn (talk) 06:01, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

There's still the Irv Rubin/Earl Krugel plot in late 2001, the Clayton Waagner spree of late 2001 (I'm not sure if this one counts as "foiled" though), the Robert J. Goldstein plot of 2002, the Krar et al Tyler poison gas plot of 2003, the Demetrius Crocker plot of 2004 ... and there's still more from late 2001 on, if you go through the pages of this SLPC report from 2005. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:38, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Okay then, this article should be renamed and a new article created. That's too many incidents to fit into one list. --William S. Saturn (talk) 18:37, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

<copied from my talk page>
How do you feel about the rename of List of foiled terrorist plots in the United States to List of foiled Islamic terrorist plots in the post 9/11 United States? --William S. Saturn (talk) 00:26, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I think my wording was more formal ("9/11" isn't, and the "post" would have to be hyphenated), but either way, at least it accurately describes the article. You need to change the boldface wording in the first paragraph to match the name, though. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:34, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I will insert the hyphen. I now see that Post-9/11 exists as an article; so I believe it is an appropriate term and prevents the title from being even longer than it already is.--William S. Saturn (talk) 00:40, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I think that's because "post-9/11" is a common phrase ... most of the articles in Category:Aftermath of the September 11 attacks use "September 11" in their names ... but it's not a big deal. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:05, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Very Incomplete

Missing attempted attacks by Michael Finton, Antonio Martinez, Mohammed Muhamad, and a Saudi guy out of Texas (at least four). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.200.55 (talk) 16:18, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

I removed the Cleveland plot because to my knowledge it is not related to Islam in any way. The Michael Curtis Reynolds case was only loosely tied to Islamic terrorism, but I left it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jedehoojah (talk • contribs) 20:09, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

The Cleveland plot should be added back in, or the title of the article changed. The article claims to be a list of all terrorist plots, not just Islamic ones. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.81.30.60 (talk) 17:02, 23 March 2016 (UTC) http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/nov/28/cleveland-anarchist-bomb-plot-fbi Djlivi (talk) 18:50, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

And now we coincidentally have another to add. Ibrahim Hassan al Asiri who was stopped around May 7, 2012.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2016/principals-race-war-plot-said-practice-neo-pagan-asatru-religion https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2011/mlk-day-bomb-suspect-has-extensive-white-supremacist-background http://www.northwestgeorgianews.com/rome/news/local/fbi-men-planned-guerilla-war-against-federal-agencies/article_bbaa4e6a-99c1-11e3-86c1-0017a43b2370.html The above were all found with relatively little effort, and are from just the past few years. It is very clear that there are many unsuccessful terrorist plots that are missing on this page. Djlivi (talk) 18:50, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Title change

List of foiled Islamic terrorist plots in the post-9/11 United States should be changed to List of foiled terrorist plots in the post-9/11 United States

I'm sure people would like to know everyone of the not islamist ones. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.14.180.80 (talk) 02:47, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Boston bombers planned to bomb times square

Do you guys think we should add an entry for the fact that the Boston bombers were planning on bombing Times Square? This was their plan, but luckily they were apprehended before this happened. See the following link:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/25/us/boston-attack — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wolfrach (talk • contribs) 15:51, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Incredibly biased title and premise

Most of these plots were unsuccessfully attempted, not foiled. The title is extremely awkward and its only purpose is to provide a Republican, Islamophobic talking point - in fact, this very talk page notes that 'global terrorism' is an euphemism for 'Islamic terrorism', going so far as to remove an example for not being Islamic. This either needs to be rewritten or deleted; I've moved and rewritten the introduction section, but its fundamental conceit is incredibly biased. Amitabho Chattopadhyay (talk) 03:57, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

The same could be said for the template: "Alleged militants in the War on Terror who have lived in the United States".Crtew (talk) 03:48, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Supporting terrorism is not plotting terrorism.

Many of these are about people convicted of providing materiel support and recruiting for terrorist groups. That's not the same as a plot. Change the title or fix the list, please. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:55, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Neutrality

This list makes no mention of the fact that most of these plots were cooked up by the FBI for propaganda purposes. Here are some sources:

• Harris, Paul (16 November 2011). "Fake terror plots, paid informants: the tactics of FBI 'entrapment' questioned". The Guardian.
• Shipler, David K. (28 April 2012). "Terrorist Plots, Hatched by the F.B.I." The New York Times.
• Szoldra, Paul (11 March 2013). "The FBI Goes To Disturbing Lengths To Set Up Potential Terrorists". Business Insider.
• "US: Terrorism Prosecutions Often An Illusion". Human Rights Watch. 21 July 2014.
• Ackerman, Spencer (21 July 2014). "Government agents 'directly involved' in most high-profile US terror plots". The Guardian.
• Cushing, Tim (23 July 2014). "Report: All But Four Of The High-Profile Domestic Terrorism Plots In The Last Decade Were Crafted From The Ground Up By The FBI". Techdirt.
• Greenwald, Glenn (26 February 2015). "Why Does the FBI Have to Manufacture its Own Plots if Terrorism and ISIS Are Such Grave Threats?". The Intercept.

Augurar (talk) 05:27, September 28, 2015‎ (UTC)

It would be great if you could find a way to introduce this into the article somehow. In the meantime, I don't think the POV tag is appropriate since this is more of a lack of information issue than a neutrality issue.--William S. Saturn (talk) 06:10, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

The neutrality issue comes up when the lead states that these are "Islamic Extremist terrorist plots aimed at civilian and military targets", when in reality these are mostly FBI-instigated incidents intended to create the perception of a continuing terrorist threat. By presenting these bogus "plots" as fact, Wikipedia is perpetuating this propaganda. At the very least the lead and article should use more cautious language - "alleged terrorist plots", etc. Augurar (talk) 16:10, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, since you keep deleting the POV template I added a sentence to the intro with these refs. However this is just a "band-aid" fix, a real fix would probably involve expanding the intro to two paragraphs and going over the list contents to more clearly present the objective facts (e.g. person A was accused of X, charged with Y, or convicted of Z) and omitting the speculation (or at least attributing it to sources). Augurar (talk) 04:02, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Sending agents in to infiltrate terrorist groups is not faking them. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 16:12, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

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Terror or hate crimes

If the reliable sources call it a "hate crime" and not a "terrorist plot" then it should not be on the list. I am removing things. Dream Focus 11:51, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

@DreamFocus: this is a terrible list. Not only does it lack links to the attacks, it has sources that don't back the claims and our articles on the events don't call them all terrorist. Doug Weller talk 09:15, 1 June 2020 (UTC) Thought I was previewing, damn. @Dream Focus: Doug Weller talk 09:16, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Trying to ping anyone around recently who has been active in the area, only found User:Captainllama right now. Doug Weller talk 09:19, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Regarding the invasion of the US Capitol on 1/6/21

Hey everyone. Was going to post here and say that, while the 2021 storming of the United States Capitol seem to be terroristic in nature, the general consensus is that we're going to wait for charges to come up against the rioters to post. I gathered such from that article's talk page. Probably going to be an entry on here, if I had to bet on it. Kobentori (talk) 00:02, 12 January 2021 (UTC)