Talk:List of flags of Ireland

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Political flags

If no one has any reasonable objection then I propose to add the Red flag to the section on Political flags.

I will place the flag (countless samples to pick from Commons) and insert some text under the provided subheadings (Flag, Date, Use, Description)

I believe it is a worthy addition here

the Red Flag has an Irish connection (Irishman Jim Connell)
it has widespread political usage; both in its original plain version and variations of it stamped with party initials / crest (I’m proposing to add only the plain red flag)
it is important in marking a notable change in Irish politics and wider society; a growth in an internationalist dimension to Irish socialist thinking
the use of the red flag on parades by the increasingly left-wing Irish Republican movement in the 1960’s led to disagreements that were a foreshadow of the 1970 split

I would encourage any discussion of my proposal. Otherwise I will make the edit by (aptly) Friday the 1st of May 2020.

Cograng (talk) 18:02, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled

Regarding recent reverts, I am inclined to agree with Zoney on this one. In general, only three flags (national/presidential/naval) could be exclusively identified with the Republic of Ireland, remembering it is not a science. With the provincial flags (five) as the provinces have no legal standing in the Republic of Ireland then it would be misleading to claim they are exclusively Republic of Ireland, the provinces are historical only. The historical flags (five) are exclusively of Ireland. Perhaps the best way forward is to lable appropriately? Djegan 19:33, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ignoring your "no legal standing" argument, six of the flags are exclusive to the RoI and all the others are or have been used in the RoI in some way. There are NO flags exclusive to NI on the list, therefore RoI makes much more sense, especially with NI's flag contained in the "historical" section!! Jonto 20:34, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Its important to remember that the provinces, and their flags, are pre-partition inventions and should be accepted on this basis. Djegan 21:09, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Zoney, etc. - now that the article has been modified to talk about the whole island, you will now need to add several flags from List_of_British_flags. That is why I thought it was simpler for the article to refer to the Republic. Jonto 16:18, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Any particular ones you suggest? some of them are already "British flags"? Djegan 18:05, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jonto, the article already was in parts talking about the whole island (understandably so for the history section). Thus rather than pretend the article was about the Republic only (and have the awkward situation of the introduction referring to the Republic, but historical all-Ireland flags) it made more sense to add the missing contemporary flags used in Ireland. zoney ♣ talk 12:27, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Split

I propose this be...... well not exactly "split" per se, but that it be.... well I suppose partially copied into another article List of flags of the Republic of Ireland, or something similar. Or, the converse, i.e. this become the page for the Republic and the page for the island moves elsewhere. The reason is, numerous places in the list template are double-listed due to the fact that they are listed again under another entity (e.g Scotland and the UK are both listed). - ^Red _Hot 17:59, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am not convinced as yet; what should we do with common flags such as provincial(which have no official status in either political entity, apart from the ad-hoc cultural element) or historic that cannot be assigned exclusively to the Republic of Ireland or Northern Ireland. Split the article just because we cannot decide if the opening should refer to "Ireland" or "Republic of Ireland"? Going forward clear and sound proposals are needed. Djegan 18:34, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

oppose, as stated above their is the issue with the common flags, also this article cover the various flags that have been used on the island since it's historym though their are still some that could yet to be put on. A split would just creat several small artcils from a small article. Tjeir are also aready seperate artciles for the tricolour that mention several of the other flags as well as an article on the NI flag, that mentions the same as well as proposals for the new flag. An addation of new articles under either republic of NI names would just add confusion. Anyway as situated this article works well in diplaying flags that are common to both the republic and NI as well as acting as a disam page for the other flags. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 05:00, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Too many obscure flags?

User:Damnbutter has expressed concern through his edits and on my talk page, that there are too many obscure flags, and too many associated with the Protestant Ascendancy, Unionism, the British state, or Loyalism. While I think they are all interesting, he has a point to a degree. How many flags do we want here, and are there any we should drop? --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 20:11, 20 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's an encyclopaedia. More is better. Readers can ignore what they don't care for. I oppose deletion of "too many obscure flags". -- Evertype·✆ 00:15, 21 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see how anyone could want to curtail this list. Are you perhaps thinking of Template:IrishFlags? That one I agree is too big. But this article should be as comprehensive as possible; only remove things if they are refactored into a subordinate list like GAA county colours. jnestorius^(talk) 02:53, 21 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Evertype, but at the same time, I don't think the county colours add much. Pauric 07:23, 21 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They've been moved to a sub-page anyway. -- Evertype·✆ 09:36, 21 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My point is that there is miscategorisation - colonial/foreign/british flags are being passed off as "Irish" on this page. This kind of slant turns Wikipedia into a joke - where else would the flag of english royalty be passed off as an Irish flag? Where in Ireland did the Union Jack and Royal Standard originate from exactly? I have attempted correctly categorise these flags as colonial but all my edits keep getting reverted -no reason given bar insinuations of personal bias. --Damnbutter 11:00, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Read the first sentence: This is a list of flags which [sic.] have been, or are still today, used on the island of Ireland. It is for flags USED, not originated, on Ireland. This has been well explained, and your personal bias is merely overwhelming the rationale. Since Northern Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom, the official flags of the United Kingdom and the Monarchy (in Northern Ireland) are just as important to the list as the flags of the Republic of Ireland and the Presidency. If you want to get rid of the British flags, there's an easy way, and that's for the article to be dedicated to flags of the Republic of Ireland (which is only sensible anyway). Bastin 12:09, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

"the official flags of the United Kingdom and the Monarchy (in Northern Ireland) are just as important to the list as the flags of the Republic of Ireland and the Presidency. ". For a start they are not as important as Irish flags only to perhaps 15-20% of the population of Ireland, so perhaps they should be labelled "Minority secessionist flags" or something - makes as much sense as "Irish Flags".

Your own personal bias is blinding you to the obvious - these british flags lay claim to the whole of Ireland and constant deletion of my attempts to inject some rationale have either been merely deleted, labelled as vandalism, personal bias etc -where in the world would you find the english royal standard descibed as an "Irish flag" except on Wikipedia? If the six counties are "british" how can you descibe your imperial flags as Irish anyway? As I said before it is POV nonsense like this that is turning Wikipedia into a joke. --Damnbutter 15:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Where in Ireland did the Union Jack and Royal Standard originate from exactly?

Just like a person, a flag does not have to originate in Ireland to be Irish. Yes, they were naturalized by imperialist force against the wishes of the majority. They symbolise such things as union of the parliaments, British ascendancy, and the Dukes of Leinster, which have restricted modern relevance. They are both Irish and British simultaneously, though understandably anathema to nationalism and republicanism. However, I don't think this encyclopedia will serve anyone well if it omits things that were more important in the past than they are now, or because they represent minority political views. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 19:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In use in the Republic of Ireland?

Are these flags really in use in the Republic of Ireland?

Flag carried in different variations by the Irish Brigade of the French Army Flag of the Regiment of Hibernia aka the "O'Neill's Regiment" of the Spanish Army Green Silk flag of the Saint Patrick's Battalion of the Mexican Army Color of the 28th Massachusetts Infantry regiment of the Irish Brigade (U.S.) of the Union Army 2d Irish Color of the 69th Infantry Regiment (United States) of the Irish Brigade (U.S.) of the Union Army

....if there is a section for flags used by members of the Irish diaspora, then OK.

And we also have historical flags there were in use in the land that is the republic today, but are just historical;

Flag of the Royal Irish Regiment (1684–1922) of the British Army. Also known as the 18th (Royal Irish) Regiment of Foot and the 18th (The Royal Irish) Regiment of Foot Flag of the 86th (Royal County Down) Regiment of Foot of the British Army Flag carried by the United Irishmen at the Battle of Arklow Flag of the Blueshirts, Ireland's quasi-fascist movement founded in 1932 and banned in 1933. Based on the Saint Patrick's Saltire flag.

...shouldn't these be in a historical section?194.78.35.195 (talk) 14:27, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 14:11, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

List of flags of the Republic of Ireland → List of flags of Ireland — The article appears to be concerns with flags that relate to the entire island of Ireland rather than the Republic of Ireland. Of the falgs listed here, the only one that is pertinent to the Republic of Ireland, as distinct from the island of Ireland, is the tricolour and the presidential standard. An article on List of flags of Ireland is notable and encyclopaediac, particularly since the island of Ireland does not actually have an official/consensus flag though many flags have historically been used and continue to be used unofficially often reflecting one's political persuasion. --RA (talk) 08:33, 5 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support Providing the article about flags in the North is adequately summarised in this one after the move. O Fenian (talk) 09:01, 5 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there's quite a large overlap anyway. I think a separate List of flags used in Northern Ireland is worthwhile though. I don't think they should be merged. --RA (talk) 09:11, 5 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I did not mean to merge them. Just if you are going to make this a "proper" Ireland flags article then the contents of that article will need including in summary form. O Fenian (talk) 09:13, 5 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cool. That's what I understood. --RA (talk) 10:26, 5 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I thought you would, I was just ensuring everyone else does as well so this discussion does not go off the rails quickly. O Fenian (talk) 15:29, 5 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Question

What should the lead sentence say? From what I understood of the request above, the article was being reframed as flags used across the island, but the lead saying "This is a list of flags which have been, or are still today, to represent the island of Ireland" seems to contradict this. Also with the first flag in the list being the tricolour, I can imagine the usual suspects kicking up a fuss very soon. O Fenian (talk) 21:11, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

RE: the tricolour, that crossed my mind alright. I think the article will need a greater jig up meet NPOV. About the first sentence, I had meant a list of flags for the island of Ireland but I don't mind another slant being put on that. What did you have in mind/what did you understand? --RA (talk) 21:17, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have tried something similar to List of flags used in Northern Ireland. I realised the "used in Ireland" might not be best, but "used on the island of Ireland" was a bit longwinded, and the hatnote immediately above does qualify it already so it seemed a bit needless. I definitely think the "Island of Ireland" section needs reworking. Possibly include in that the Tricolour (as the Tricolour respresenting the Irish Republic) and the St. Patrick's saltire, and move the Flag of Ireland and Presidential standard into a Republic of Ireland section? O Fenian (talk) 21:23, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good. All things that were in the back of my mind but not sure how best to do it. Go ahead and do it. --RA (talk) 21:32, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It may need some more fiddling about with, but I have changed it. The duplication in the descriptions probably could be removed, at a minimum. I am possibly unhappy about the slight discrepancy between having no finish date for the Saltire and including a finish date for the Tricolour, but it is difficult to deal with that flag since it is in two sections. O Fenian (talk) 21:41, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Military flags - some are clearly not flags of Ireland

I don't see why foreign military regiment flags have been included in this article. They are flags of foreign armies not flags of Ireland and they didn't represent the island of Ireland but just the origin of the soldiers IMO. There isn't an issue with the British army ones as those regiments where based in Ireland and aren't foreign - if it was a Canadian based Irish regiment of the British army i would say why include it?

Maybe have them in a different military sub-section, say: In Foreign Military. Or maybe i'm just being silly lol :-P Mabuska ^(talk) 10:35, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So no disagreement with deleting this flags that don't represent the actual island of Ireland then? Mabuska ^(talk) 21:23, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think all the historical military flags should be removed. ~Asarlaí 13:24, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion is now part of BW's below seeing as it is a major part of it. Mabuska ^(talk) 14:34, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ulster banner

The Ulster banner appears to be missing from this list. It should be included somewhere. BritishWatcher (talk) 19:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It has never been used to represent the island. O Fenian (talk) 19:37, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Every single flag on this list has been used to represent the whole island? BritishWatcher (talk) 19:40, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If the Ulster banner does not belong here i will be removing the National flag of the Republic of Ireland. BritishWatcher (talk) 23:27, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The whole article is a joke. It states at the top that its to do with flags that represent the island of Ireland however goes into flags that represent a state that doesn't cover the whole island and even provincial flags which don't cover the island! And then political movement flags that were never stated as covering Ireland. Joke joke joke this article needs serious fixing.

Thus i propose we delete all flags shown other than the first three that were used to represent the whole island as the rest never have. Mabuska ^(talk) 21:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think this article should have more flags, so it is a complete list and it should get the prime spot of Flag of Ireland / Flags of Ireland. The flag of the state could then be moved to Irish Tri Colour. That would be the fair and reasonable way of doing it, with a note at the top for the state article. But oh no. The bias way of structuring everything stands, like in so many other cases relating to these matters. BritishWatcher (talk) 21:29, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'll strongly oppose any attempt to move Flag of Ireland. --HighKing (talk) 15:31, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes i am sure you would. BritishWatcher (talk) 15:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well seeing what this article is supposed to be about, O Fenian or anybody else can't argue against the fact other than the first three flags shown in this article - none of the rest have been used to represent the island of Ireland. We may as well include paramilitary flags and the loyal order and AOH flags as well just to be complete. Mabuska ^(talk) 21:35, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Its already been added, but yes, it seems to be acceptable in the context of the article; "This article is about flags used to represent the island of Ireland". I take from that countries or political entities on the island and not the entire island, which would make the Ulster Banner and National Flag of Ireland equally appropriate for the article. WikiuserNI (talk) 13:11, 19 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Other flags?

This article seems to be missing other flags used to represent the island of Ireland, such as the Union flag (1801-1922) (), the flag of the Commonwealth (c.1649) (), the Green Ensign ) etc. Should these not be included in the article seeing as how we are already using unofficial flags (the 4 provinces flag) and flags of dubious status, though indeed common, such as the St. Patrick's Saltire, and historical flags such as the Standard of the Kingdom of Ireland? ^Mac Tíre _Cowag 09:52, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

These flags absolutely should be added. The

union jack is an uncomfortable truth for some in Ireland, but it is important to recognise that it was used across Ireland for a long time, and it remains one of the official flags flown by the Northern Ireland executive to this day. I also suggest the

EU flag, as it is used on official buildings on both sides of the border. There seems to be no rhyme or reason as to which flags are included (they certainly aren't flags which exclusively represent Ireland as a whole), and so the list should be made complete and of course without bias. BananaBork (talk) 16:17, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

what about the county flags with and without the gaa symbols Finnfrog99 (talk) 22:14, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Defense Forces of Ireland Flag

[[ping|Setanta Saki}} the image you've added as a "Defense Forces of Ireland Flag" is a contemporary logo design used by the defense forces, but it is not a flag. The sort of things you've linked to — like DF twitter avatar, pin badges, etc. — show it is a design in use, but don't provide any evidence that it is a flag.

Are there any sources that support the claim that this is a "Defense Forces of Ireland Flag"? --Tóraí (talk) 16:32, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I dont wish to get into a major debate on the issue to be honest. I have shown multiple sources that it was not in any way fiction which was the initial reason for my reverts. I can not see any reason how it is particularly different to for example the British army flag [1] they have a emblem and its on a red background, the Irish army its emblem and its on a black background with the tricolour stripe underneath. Of course "technically" you are correct it is not "the flag of the British army" which im sure you know quite well, that is the union flag but it is still a used wording, but this can be altered to satisfy if you are in any way open to compromise on the issue. You can argue to kingdom come as to the flag versus logo on a background or what constitutes a flag. In my opinion it quite clearly parallels the "british army flag" example. You may disagree of course. Setanta Saki (talk) 18:46, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about flags only. And only flags that (verifiable) exist in the real world. It's not a place for designs of would-be flags. And it is not a competition with the British.

The only two relevant questions are: 1) is that design flown as a a flag (i.e. made of cloth and hoisted from a flag pole); 2) if it is flown as a flag, what does it represent?

The design you added for the naval service, for example, is verifiable used by the navy as a ceremonial flag. You can see an image of it being carried here. And the Air Corp one can be seen here alongside it.

What about the design you added? Is it verifiably the flag of the Irish Defence Force? --Tóraí (talk) 00:21, 7 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

At the time of inclusion I had considered it a verifiable flag in the sense of its depiction in another medium on official sites that together with its existence in badge format. It is difficult to find real world images examples of flags being flown other than those used quite frequently. Its existence in the previous formats similar to that of other nations led me to further believe that is was indeed a flag. I may have been incorrect on that. If I am I would like to find out what unique flag the "Army corps" as a whole uses if any and would appreciate any information you might have on the matter. Setanta Saki (talk) 17:20, 7 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

On the IDF flicr site, I see a two see two interesting banners here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmagazine/12116695256/

There are images of these two banners being displayed as flags elsewhere. In particular, this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmagazine/12116428203/

Here is a close up of the second: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmagazine/12116441153/

I also see what appears to be a variant of the Presidential standard (the President is commander-in-chief). The clearest image I have found of this is here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmagazine/9696865310/sizes/o/

None of these are reliable source though. This kind of investigation is original research. To include these images, a reliable source would need to be found that explains what these flags are (if they are anything notable at all!). However, it these images may be a starting point in your search.

I'm sorry if you feel I'm but standing in your way. That's not my intention. But it is tempting to add material to the encyclopedia on a feeling that it is correct. Feeling alone isn't sufficient, there needs to be proof Good luck, --Tóraí (talk) 19:42, 7 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No worries Tóraí, dont feel like that at all, thanks for pointing me towards the flickr site, it has helped me sort out mostly what flags are used.Setanta Saki (talk) 22:41, 8 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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FOTW (and its mirrors) as unreliable source

To further explain this change, and per WP:RSP#Flags of the World, the Flags of the World website/mailing list (FOTW) is not a reliable source. And has been accepted as unreliable since 2011. This also applies to FOTW's mirrors (like crwflags.com, the website of a retail flag shop in Maryland, which hosts archived sections of the FOTW Yahoo Group mailing list).

As discussed at Talk:Flags of the World (website)#Listed as generally unreliable, just because an editor might "find" a flag on Commons, claiming to be an official or accepted "present" flag of Bray or Castlebar or whatever, it doesn't mean that it is. Or should automatically be added to articles in Wikipedia. As if FOTW (or a related description on Commons) are automatically reliable.

In the case of Bray, even if we ignore WP:RS, WP:UGC and WP:RSP, and blindly accept the WP:OR findings of an FOTW mailing-list member (who undertook their own WP:OR research in 2005 and made a UGC post of the output to a Yahoo Group mailing list), and accept that a flag was adopted by Bray Town Council in 1956, that blind faith couldn't extend to acceptance of it being the "present" flag of Bray Town Council. As, after ignoring umpteen project policies and consensus that FOTW is an unreliable source, we'd also have to ignore the verifiable fact that Bray Town Council was abolished years ago.... Guliolopez (talk) 02:01, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]