Talk:List of current heads of state and government/Archive 5

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Archive 5

Continent column

I just removed the continent column that was added by Thinker78 so that we can discuss this here before either adding it again or doing something else. I hate undoing so much work but I think the addition of the column is unnecessary and clutters things up. Also, the idea of continents are not uniform around the globe as people may think there are 5, 6, or 7 continents depending where you are from. But more importantly, the main point of this article is who the leader is of what country. Those things are currently the main focus of the main chart and I think it should remain this way. Thoughts? Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 07:36, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Agreed, a continent column is not related to the article topic, and the table already slightly exceeds the page width. CMD (talk) 08:27, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

I added the continent column because I personally was trying to compare regional heads of state and government and their differences. I believe this sorting would be useful for certain editors that seek to sort in similar ways the information.

About the number of continents, I added what is mostly followed by English reliable sources, the project being English Wikipedia. I have had discussions precisely about this, where I was arguing for a unified Americas but I found that reliable sources in English back other division.

About the width, there are a wide variety of devices with different widths of screens and the table only has 3 columns with a reasonable amount of characters each. A fourth column of one or two words doesn't seem to me to have an inordinate impact. Any Wikipedia guidance that can be cited?

Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 05:38, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

What differences are you looking for between heads of state though and why would the region matter? Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 06:25, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Systems of government and their division. President, prime minister, head of state or of government. There are regional trends. For example look at my edit where I added Caribbean to highlight its trend of using the same system as opposed to the mainland North America countries. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 06:57, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

The Caribbean isn't a continent according to anyone's definition though. Why add that and not the Middle East or West Africa or Southeast Asia? Also, the systems of government aren't listed here so you are going to have to reference another article to find this anyways. Maybe you could try and implement the continent column over at https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/List_of_countries_by_system_of_government?

Anyways, it's seems like a really niche need that I don't think belongs here. Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 07:18, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

The Caribbean is a regional division of the North American continent by the United Nations geoscheme for the Americas. The divisions of the other continents I am less familiar with but I could add such subdivisions. The systems of government I am referring to is precisely whether the president is a head of state or head of government, which pertains to this page.

"It seems" is in your opinion, which you are entitled to, but I don't necessarily agree with. Every editor use sorting for different reasons, it's not that everyone does it for the same reasons. You are very inflexible in your position considering how new your account is. Sincerely, Thinker78 (talk) 05:09, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

I apologize if I seem inflexible here I'm just not seeing how continents belong on this list. I want you to take a moment and imagine that I really want to know what color eyes each leader has. Brown, blue, green, hazel - I want to know it all. I want to see if having green eyes is more common in prime ministers than in presidents. Should I be able to add a column here with that information? Why or why not?

Now I want you to apply that same logic to the continent column as well. Why or why not? Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 16:26, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

As I indicated before, each editor has their very own uses for sorting. Regarding color of eyes, you are going into tangents.

In this page, there are columns for head of state, country, therefore it follows logically to add continent, for easier sorting of the information of said table. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 21:51, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Just to add my two cents: I also don't really see a continent listing as being particularly useful: it seems like it would easily lead to pointless "what is a continent" bickering, and it also opens up the possibility of adding more columns for other facts about each country that might be defensible individually but would quickly make the table quite cluttered. I'm not sure why continent is the next "logical" addition after country -- obviously each head of state corresponds to an individual country. --Jfruh (talk) 00:46, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Because countries are in continents? Head of state of x country. X, Y, Z countries in X continent. Sounds logical to me. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 03:21, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

The two ideas are not linked, countries have nothing to do with conceptions of continents (hence why different cultures have different numbers of continents). There are likely many more relevant facts as Jfruh notes, but this page isn't the place to have them. CMD (talk) 03:26, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

"countries have nothing to do with conceptions of continents". I don't share your opinion, at least not in a measure. The division between Europe and Asia is a cultural one, at least initially. I guess you also believe that cultures have nothing to do with conceptions of countries. Besides, children around the world are taught in schools in which continent their country is located. Name one more relevant fact. Sincerely, Thinker78 (talk) 03:35, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

The system of government is one example of relevant information we don't include. As for the rest, I'm afraid I don't really understand what you mean in the message above about cultures and countries. Continents however are just a particular way to divide the earth, they don't correlate or define countries. CMD (talk) 08:29, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Continents are a way to define physical geography that in many cases don't map particularly well onto cultural geography. Just to take a couple random examples -- Honduras and Canada are on the same continent, but Honduras has more culturally in common with Ecuador, which is on a different continent. Similarly, Egypt and Tunisia have a lot more culturally in common with Syria than they do with Namibia. --Jfruh (talk) 17:19, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Best to not include a continent column. The page's current status, is sufficient. GoodDay (talk) 16:22, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Notes

Niger coup

Foreign Minister Hassoumi Massoudou is claiming to be acting head of state but I am not sure what to call his disputed government. Need help on how to insert him properly in the article. See https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-66320895. Borgenland (talk) 10:26, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Niger's Military Junta in the Other Governments Section

Isn't it premature to add Niger's National Council for the Safeguard of the Homeland to List of current heads of state and government#Other_governments? My gripe is that it was added to the third table, but no UN member state has outright recognized the military junta as being legitimate (yet). Quite the contrary, actually. All the news articles I've seen show the UN condemning the coup (for example: [1]). You might say Russia, a member of the UN, favors the coup, but the actions of an exiled mercenary or the musings of a political scientist cannot count as Russia's formal endorsement of what's going on.

Can the Niger row be removed? I would remove the row myself, but the page is semi-protected from me. Plus, I don't want to upset Jwkozak91, the venerable user who added it. If my point does not sit well with anyone, then could somebody at least put "Niger" into the State column and "National Council for the Safeguard of the Homeland" into the Government column? The two are mixed up. A military junta is a government, whereas Niger is a state. The Nut Master (King of Squirrels) (talk) 02:20, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

I think in regards to coups, might is right. It doesn't really matter who recognizes them, they're in power of a UN-member country now and nothing is really going to change that unless another coup happens. Same with the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan after the government fell there as well. I don't think Niger should be removed, I think the exiled government should stay in the other section where it belongs, just like Taiwan. Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 03:36, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Haiti's president

Haiti's president marked as vacant, but Ariel Henry has served as acting president (as well as acting prime minister which is marked correctly) CooleraGamer (talk) 16:10, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Add Chechen Republic of Ichkeria to the 3rd "Other governments" list or not?

These alternative governments do not control their territory but are recognized as legitimate by at least one UN member state.

If I read this list correctly, then as Ukrainian Government recognized it, why not list this, too? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 08:18, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

The resolution was non-binding. [2] Mike Rohsopht (talk) 09:03, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Republic of Artsakh

I hesitate to broach this topic because I know it is a heavy one, but it appears that the Republic of Artsakh no longer controls any of its claimed territory: almost its entire population has fled to Armenia and its government has announced that it will dissolve itself. At what point do we remove it from this list? --Jfruh (talk) 22:49, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

There's probably no right answer along the spectrum, I suppose we could look for news about Samvel Shahramanyan and see when he has clearly left. CMD (talk) 01:07, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 October 2023

Remove Prime Minister Achi since he has been removed from his post. S.G. Detrow (talk) 15:18, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Pinchme123 (talk) 03:31, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Edit request for link

Link to Xi Jinping's Wikipedia page is not applied to his name. This will be useful to readers when added. Michaeljmarshall03 (talk) 22:20, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

The Wikilink is under "General Secretary of the Communist Party of China", as it is for the other 4 one-Party nominally Communist states of the world.– Jwkozak91 (talk) 02:01, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Pakistan's Chief of Army Staff

Is there a source for Pakistan's Chief of Army Staff being the leader of the country? Wkpdsrnm2023 (talk) 12:00, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Denmark

Shouldn't the line for "Denmark" link to the Kingdom of Denmark instead of the constituent country of Denmark, as is done for the Kingdom of the Netherlands? 2600:6C44:757F:99ED:DDD2:8AFE:1E05:3BBD (talk) 03:46, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Pakistan

Enlighten me folks. Why is the Army chief being placed above the president & prime minister, let alone included at all? GoodDay (talk) 17:07, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Because some people who support Imran Khan are suspicious of the army's role in the judicial rulings resulting in Khan being effectively banned from running in the parliamentary election?– Jwkozak91 (talk) 23:54, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

The question is, should the sentiments of a politician's supporters be allowed to dictate content in this article? I am thinking of boldly reverting it if there is no objection Borgenland (talk) 01:32, 21 January 2024 (UTC)