Talk:List of countries by system of government/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Peru

I've seen that Peru is listed as a semi-presidential republic, complete with academic sources that corroborate this being the case. So I won't make any attempts to dispute this.

However, what confuses me is that the pages Peru, Government of Peru and Politics of Peru all describe the President both as head of state and as head of government – which, by definition, would make Peru a fully presidential republic. I've looked into the Peruvian constitution and no reference is made to the President being HoG in art. 110, which otherwise describes them as HoS.

I was wondering if someone could explain Peru's exact system of governance to me? LVDP01 (talk) 07:54, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

I did some research into the matter. I discovered a a Reddit post (not a reliable source, I know, but bear with me for a second) that points out that Peru functions as a semi-presidential republic in practice, though de jure it is indeed a fully presidential regime.

Since this article indexes countries by de jure system of governance to my knowledge, I figure that Peru should likely be moved back to the presidential republic list. LVDP01 (talk) 18:22, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't think countries specify their system specifically as "presidential system/republic" directly in those terms in the constitution and laws. Usually they describe the system itself not how it's categorized academically. Then this article attempts to classify those countries by using those statements and matching them with classifications.

First we need to have reliable definitions of what our categorization is based on.

A typology of executive-legislative systems

	Does the executive's survival depend on the legislature?
Is the executive (partly or wholly) popularly elected?	Wholly	Partly	No
Yes	Prime-ministerial	Semi-presidential	Presidential
No	Parliamentary	Semi-parliamentary	Assembly-independent

What's executive of Peru? Constitution defines in Article 118.3: It is the duty of the President of the Republic … To manage the general policy of the government. Article 122: The Cabinet has its own President. The President of the Republic presides over the Cabinet when he convenes it or when he attends its meetings.

So let's answer first question. Is the executive (partly or wholly) popularly elected? Clearly Yes. Article 111

Then second question. Does the executive's survival depend on the legislature? Partly (not the president). A censured Cabinet or minister must resign. Article 132

You can clearly see on Semi-presidential republic lead that is well-sourced that it doesn't mention at all head of state and head of government separation unlike lead of semi-presidential section of this article, which is unsourced and wrong. Only thing required for system to be semi-presidential is prime minister and cabinet being responsible to legislature.

Peru is not de facto semi-presidential republic and de jure presidential. It's misunderstanding of what presidential republic is. Otherwise every parliamentary republic with an executive presidency would need to be classified as de jure presidential. But neither of them are. -- Svito3 (talk) 23:07, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Chad

Chad's just had an election, should it be returned to its de jure Semi-Presidential status or should we wait for the upcoming parliamentary election to go through and the National Transitional Council gets replaced by the National Assembly? GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 10:41, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Nation v State v Country

I am going to change the terminology used in this article. Nation/s will be changed to country. CicolasMoon (talk) 21:17, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

U.S. President is both Head of State and Head of Government

. . . so, I am confused by the description given in the section, "Presidential Republics Without a Prime Minister," as merely representing the President as Head of Government.  In the U.S.A., that is simply not the case.  It would seem this section needs to make further specification and distinction.Mwidunn (talk) 02:18, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
(UTC)

From Federal government of the United States § Executive powers and duties:

The president is both the head of state (performing ceremonial functions) and the head of government (the chief executive).¹⁶

Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 03:22, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Is the supreme leader of Iran democratically elected?

If not it probably can't be called a presidential system. 2A02:A44A:5C96:1:40B:2426:37FF:8A5C (talk) 01:27, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

From this article's lead: "This list does not measure degree of democracy, political corruption, or state capacity of governments." Clyde H. Mapping (talk) 04:34, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

That's not really an answer to the question though, it seems to confuse the office of president with the office of leadership. I see the claim that 'de jure, Iran is a presidential system' repeated several times in several discussions about this, but that does not follow from the Iranian constitution, which states (article 113):

"After the office of Leadership, the President is the highest official in the country. His is the responsibility for implementing the Constitution and acting as the head of the executive, except in matters directly concerned with (the office of) the Leadership."

The question that follows is, what does 'matters directly concerned with (the office of) the Leadership' mean? That's defined in article 110, which gives the leader de jure executive power, which the leader also exercises de facto.

So, following the letter of the Iranian constitution, Iran does not have a popularly elected independently acting head of government. 2A02:A44A:5C96:1:959F:27F7:5B53:86E1 (talk) 09:31, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

This article says, "In presidential systems a president is the head of government,". So, getting away from the "popularly elected" distinction there, the question seems to be, "Is the Iranian president the head of governeent?" The Head of government article says, "In the executive branch, the head of government is the highest or the second-highest official of a sovereign state, a federated state, or a self-governing colony, autonomous region, or other government who often presides over a cabinet, a group of ministers or secretaries who lead executive departments." The Head of government article also says, "Not to be confused with Head of state." and the Head of state article says, "[I]n presidential systems, the head of state is also the head of government.", though it then goes on about specifics re Communist governments and the communist parties there. it seems that lack of clarity about this extends outside of this article. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 11:09, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

I have both added that lead and removed it because we clearly classify constitutionally democratic and constitutionally undemocratic systems, even if not explicitly stating so.

While IP user question is relevant, Iran isn't fully governed by presidential system. Guardian Council that is mainly appointed by Supreme Leader (himself indirectly elected but serving life term) can veto legislation. I have moved Iran under "theocratic republic", which was previously suggested. -- Svito3 (talk) 22:54, 14 August 2024 (UTC)