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Talk:List of comedy television series with LGBT characters/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Friends

April 26, 2001: In the Friends episode titled "The One with Rachel's Big Kiss", Jennifer Aniston's character Rachel kisses an old friend from college, Melissa, played by Winona Ryder. After the kiss, Melissa confesses her love for Rachel. Viewers: 16.3 million — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.148.31.196 (talk) 09:47, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Chronological order based on premiere date

Could we please change the list so it can be in chronological order by the date each show premiered in the respective year. Just like it is in List of animated series with LGBT characters? Radiohist (talk) 08:39, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

This comedy list contains  198  series. The List of animated series with LGBT characters currently contains 7 series (The Simpsons, Patalliro! and The Rose of Versailles are repeated 2x each).
When a series is a comedy-drama, it is also added to the List of dramatic television series with LGBT characters: 1970s–2000s, 2010s, and 2020s. The combined total of the dramatic series lists is  592  series.
Comedy + Dramatic =  790  series.
Editors need to think this through because changing from adding series by the year of premiere to arranging series chronologically by their specific Month/Day/Year date will need to be done across-the-board.
Series are linked to their Wikipedia articles and readers can see in the articles what the premiere and end dates are. Then there are those series that do not have articles but do have RS about them.
I say No – continue to keep these dynamic lists organized by year. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 10:14, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
I have to disagree. Placing them by premiere date will help to better organize things rather than keeping things on a first come-first served basis.Radiohist (talk) 11:09, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
In any case, the current level of organization is a mess. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Historyday01 (talk • contribs) 20:33, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

The necessity of page changes

After my first attempt to change this page was wrongly reverted, in my opinion, I am proposing a few options, apart from sourcing the content on this page, which is sorely needed. The current organization by "year" is completely and utterly untenable, as it removes the possibility of navigability. I would say the page should be divided apart, but that's another discussion.

CHOICE 1: Go back to format I proposed in my edits.

Here is an example:

Gay characters

Character debut date Series title Character(s) Actor Network Description
June 21, 1972 The Corner Bar Peter Panama Vincent Schiavelli ABC The first continuing portrayal of a gay person on American television.[1]

This would involve organizing the characters in a way resembling the List of animated series with LGBT characters which I have extensively edited, making it searchable and useful, unlike this page, which is currently a joke due to the extreme lack of sources.

CHOICE 2: Organize the shows by network, like ABC, NBC, etc.

There is a possible basis for this because there are

  • Five ABC shows and two syndicated shows in the 1970s section
  • Three ABC shows and two NBC shows in the 1980s section
  • Three ABC shows, four BBC shows, four CBS shows, three FOX shows, two HBO shows, and six NBC shows in the 1990s section
  • Three ABC shows, six CBS shows, two Comedy Central shows, four FOX shows, two HBO shows, and four NBC shows in the 2000s section
  • Nine ABC shows (if you count affiliates), six BBC shows (if you count affiliates), five CBS shows, four Channel 4 shows, four Comedy Central shows, eight FOX shows, four MTV shows, 14 NBC shows, nine Netflix shows, three Showtime shows

A possible table style could be, to use the same example as I used above, as follows:

ABC shows

Character debut date Series title Character(s) Actor Description
June 21, 1972 The Corner Bar Peter Panama Vincent Schiavelli The first continuing portrayal of a gay person on American television.[2]

References

  1. ^ Sparta, Christine (March 11, 2002). "Emergence from the closet". USA Today. Retrieved 6 December 2008.
  2. ^ Sparta, Christine (March 11, 2002). "Emergence from the closet". USA Today. Retrieved 6 December 2008.

That's my proposal, at least. I imagine it will be rejected, but at least I tried.Historyday01 (talk) 20:56, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Re above proposal:
The title of the list is Comedy television series with LGBT characters -- not LGBT characters in comedy television series. This needs to be kept in mind.
  1. – The Character debut date is only valid if it's supported with RS that verifies when a character was introduced. Except for those LGBT+ characters that are introduced in the first or pilot episode (for example, Kate Kane/Batwoman), other characters appear in the series as episodes progress. Which means that the first lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, or +, character may be introduced in episode two, or four, etc.; or in the second, third, etc., season. If the emphasis becomes the "character debut date" -- not the premiere of the series -- then the list will need separate character debut dates for each LGBT+ character when it is added to the list (and requiring the name of the tv program to be repeated every time such a character is first added to the list). This will result in the list article becoming twice as long, if not more, than what it is now.
  2. – In the United States alone there are three major English-language television networks, followed by the independent networks; then there are the pay cable/satellite networks. Add to this subscription streaming television with original programming and program distributions. That's a lot of network and digital programs just for the USA. Then there are the original programs from networks in Australia, Britain, Europe, Mexico, South America. To create sections for each network and streaming media service will result in a bloated list.
  3. – This is not a small list. There are currently  198  series and more will be added as editors discover them. Compared to the excessive page layout that will result by having separate sections for L/G/B/T/+ characters with separate sections for each network and streaming service, the current page layout is not visually overwhelming. It may not be perfect in some people's eyes, but it is instantly readable and uncomplicated.
No one has proposed this before, but there is one possible change that would make for a better list: having series listed by alphabetical order (A-Z) within their year of debut -- and it would not result in page bloat. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 07:59, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
(1) I do have that in mind. For the pages I noted above, I personally thought that character debut date worked, but perhaps its is different from live-action series rather than animated ones. It did lead to some duplication, but I thought it was a good organization compared with what had existed before. If we were to go with character debut date, then it would probably necessitate dividing the page into subpages, which could be spun off. I (and some other editors) did that with the LGBTQ animated characters pages, so perhaps the same thing could happen here.Historyday01 (talk) 13:12, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
(2) It could create a bloated list, perhaps, but it was just another idea at organization.Historyday01 (talk) 13:12, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
(3) I can see why you say that, but I just don't think its as navigable as it should be.Historyday01 (talk) 13:12, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
(4) Organizing by alphabetical order within year of debut actually wouldn't be the far off character debut, so I'd be ok with that. You could have a category like "show debut."Historyday01 (talk) 13:12, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
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