Talk:List of automotive superlatives/Archive 8

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Unimog U5000

The 2002 Unimog U5000 is now listed ins eral placed, but does it fullfill the requements to be included? // Liftarn

Well... it sort of fulfills the 3 conditions set at the top of the article, though I would consider an Unimog to be an industrial vehicle (failing point 3). I think the scope of the article should be limited to, as the automobile article states: a passenger vehicle constructed principally for the transport of people rather than goods. I honestly don’t think an Unimog is build with that purpose. --Van helsing 12:15, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

That's your opinion, many Unimogs of that type are purchased as expedition vehicles or for transporting crew and equipment to remote sites. I could post a link to the brochures and specs, but we're all web enabled adults here. Maybe you're suggesting we disclude anything with substantial cargo capacity such as any other pickup. Meio 13:28, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Of course it’s just my opinion; I’m suggesting that we include vehicles with the primary purpose of transporting people, not excluding everything capable of doing something else. And even that’s not a good description, as far as I can see we can still include a bus under current article scope conditions. --Van helsing 15:43, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I think the real issue here is the definition of 'commercial', I have interpreted the relevant condition as 'available for purchase by private individuals' and 'Likely to be used by private individuals as a means of transportation'. If you feel that the U5000 is too extreme, remember that this is a superlatives page. I have also noticed that at 14,500lbs the International CXT is the heaviest vehicle on this list by far. Meio 21:10, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I really think that the unimog is not a passanger car. Of couse it can carry people (also a bus can) but it is not car in any way. If we allow the unimog we have allow a lot of trucks.

Remember that if you get rid of the U5000 then there is a very strong argument for also removing the F350, H1 and CXT. Maybe all pickup trucks should indeed be removed.Meio (talk) 17:25, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Suggest removing U5000 altogether. If it qualifies, so would a great number of body-on-frame vehicles available for consumers, like passenger vans and light trucks. U5000 has height of 2740 mm (90 in) and has 4,8 litre I4 engine, which would qualify it in additional categories. Also, condition 1) in article states, that vehicles on this list must be "constructed principally for retail sale to consumers, for their personal use, and to transport people on public roads". U5000 clearly fails this, as it is primarily an off-road vehicle aimed for construction, utility and rescue purposes, thus counting as industrial vehicle. At the very best, it could be given honorary mention, but I motion it be removed altogether. --213.216.255.63 (talk) 00:06, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

OK, then the F350 Superduty has to go too, as does the designed primarily for military applications Hummer H1.Meio (talk) 20:06, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

My own tuppen'orth: It's a truck. It's described as such in the opening paragraph of it's own wikipedia page, it's made by Mercedes' truck division, it looks like a truck, drives like a truck (good at hauling heavy loads, but has a 55mph top speed, 8 speed gearbox, and is useless at both acceleration and hills) and probably quacks like a truck. It's a truck! Just because some barmy people buy them and try to drive them like cars doesn't change what it actually is, just as cutting a flatbed into which you toss heavy bits of hardware and bags of cement, into the back end of a small car, without changing any other parts of the superstructure doesn't really make it a pickup, much as you might try to use it as such until the rear stub axles buckle and the bodywork follows suit. 77.102.101.220 (talk) 23:09, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Your opinion doesn't matter. There are lots of vehicles which are on this list which are described by their manufacturers as trucks. Because some people seem to think that a Ford Superduty is a family runabout makes it a candidate for this list as they are a then a market and make the vehicle conform to the, quite arbitrary, rules. It's a silly list full of silly vehicles, but if it exists and there are rules then they have to be applied evenly. Hence if the Mog goes (and I'm not saying it shouldn't) then the Superduty has to go as does the H1, and then we have to start looking at all other pickups, estates and vans.Meio (talk) 21:00, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

The Unimog should be removed. It is not "constructed principally for retail sale to consumers for personal use transporting people on public roads" It is a commercial vehicle and I'm pretty sure you need a CDL to drive it. A Ford F350 is meant for regular consumers they market it towards that they create luxurious cabins and features for non-commercial use. You can go to a normal ford dealer and get an F350 and you don't need a CDL. You can't just go to your local Mercedes dealer and get a Unimog. Also, F150/250/350 and other similar sized pickups from other manufacturers are considered a light truck. A Ford F450 is considered medium truck and is clearly commercial use and they have a separate webpage for commercial. There is a clear difference between commercial and passenger vehicles and the Unimog is definitely commercial. Even the MTX is marketed towards passenger use and they kept the weight lower so you don't need a CDL because it's not intended for commercial use. The H1 is different than a military H1. They special make a civilian version clearly not for commercial or military use. Your pickup H1 argument makes no sense. Wikiwalker838 (talk) 18:26, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Can we get rid of this? It seems like everyone agrees except Meio. Wikiwalker838 (talk) 18:30, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Excluding Trucks Over X lbs Gross Vehicle Weight Rating

What's the consensus on X for this list? It looks like people want x = 14,000. Besselfunctions (talk) 21:27, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

14,000 lb is 6,350 kg. I would think this list would be restricted to personal vehicles rather than commercial trucks. I would restrict to no more than 2 tons (2000 kg, 2500 lb) and would possibly argue for 1.5 ton or even 1 ton. Begs the question of whether we want include American style pick-up trucks or not. Ditto for some of the bigger SUVs based on a commercial 4WD (eg Lexus LX).  Stepho  talk  23:46, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

@Stepho-wrs: I move that we exclude pickup trucks with GVWRs of more than 10,000 pounds (4,500 kg) unless there's strong evidence that it is used and marketed more as passenger vehicle than truck. Besselfunctions (talk) 22:39, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

I would prefer to just make it weight based, without the target market clause. Otherwise we might be stuck with atrocities like F650 Pickups. I was thinking of 2 ton carrying capacity, so 4.5 ton total weight (vehicle + cargo) will work.  Stepho  talk  00:09, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Acceleration Category

Do these cars listed all meet the minimum production requirement of 25 the was established for this list? Besselfunctions (talk) 00:48, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

The Koenigsegg One:1 has only 6 cars built on its article, so it fails the criteria. The big question is should we keep to that criteria or swap to the production car criteria given at Fastest production car#Production car definition?  Stepho  talk  00:56, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

List of fastest production cars by acceleration has 25 too. For several years this list had a minimum of 20. Besselfunctions (talk) 19:12, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

The number of vehicles in the criteria was always a source of conflict. Too many and some of our favourite cars are removed unfairly. Too few allowed tuners cars and factory specials to creep in. There was no single number that made both camps happy. So at Talk:Production car speed record#Proposed new wording for consideration and Talk:Production car speed record#Request for Verdict re: proposed citeria changes we hammered out new rules not based on production numbers.  Stepho  talk  22:26, 10 March 2019 (UTC)