Talk:List of airlines registered with the Palestinian National Authority

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Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Prostitution in the Palestinian territories which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:29, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This move is related, but this page was still moved without discussion proper.Greyshark09 (talk) 21:40, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Rename

Please vote which title should this article be:

List of airlines in Palestine → ?

(possibilities - "List of airlines in Palestine", "List of airlines in the palestinian territories", "List of airlines in the Palestinian National Authority" or "List of airlines in the State or Palestine" or "List of airlines in the West Bank and Gaza Strip").Greyshark09 (talk) 21:40, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Same as Prostitution in Palestine and there's a discussion about that at Talk:Prostitution_in_Palestine#Prostitution_where.3F. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 21:47, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - according to sources [1], it should be named "List of airlines in the Palestinian National Authority". However, it seems to me "List of airlines in the State of Palestine" is more correct for current situation.Greyshark09 (talk) 16:01, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - as followup to my comments at the prostitution page I propose changing the lead from "This is a list of airlines currently operating in the Palestinian territories." into "This is a list of airlines registered in the Palestinian National Authority." (after all the currently single listed airline doesn't operate in the Palestinian territories) and changing the title to include PNA. Japinderum (talk) 07:59, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agree.Greyshark09 (talk) 20:14, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure about this. On the one hand the Palestinian National Authority only controls parts of the Palestinian Territories (or whatever you call the west bank and gaza) so it's registrations wouldn't seem to be the only one that matters for the Palestinian territories, on the other hand, are there any airlines that currently operate in the Palestinian territories. Does the Israeli Civil Administration, or some other part of the Israeli government handle registrations for Area C? Other the that non-operating one in East Jerusalem, are there even any airports in the Israeli-administered part of the Palestinian Territories for the Israelis to register airlines for. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 21:56, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I looked at List of airports in the Palestinian territories and the articles for all those airports list them as being non-operational. I think we can safely assume that there are no airlines currently operating in the Palestinian territories, though I would be uncombable making the article state this until we found a source that said that. I'll go ahead and implement Japinderum's idea for the lead, except using the word "with" instead of "in".

This airport source and sources such as the Polish goverment one (see it's map), and this dictionary (it's second definition) seem to use the praise "Palestinian National Authority" to refer to the whole West Bank and Gaza Strip, not just Area's A and B. Obviously the Palestinian National Authority (the administrative organization) does not control area C, but it would seem that term "Palestinian National Authority" (when referring to a physical territory) refers to the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and not just Area's A and B, so saying "in the Palestinian National Authority" would seem to mean "in the West Bank and Gaza Strip".

As for Israeli registration for Area C, if there is such a thing we can expand the statement to include "or the Israeli Civil Administration" (or whatever part of the Israeli government would handle Area C registrations). Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 05:48, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The lede is OK now, so now the article should be moved to List of airlines registered with the Palestinian National Authority, agreed? Also, I don't think Area C is a problem here - Israeli airlines are already listed in the List of airlines in Israel and unless they have a bunch of Area-C-exclusive airlines that should be fine. A 'see also' link to Israel list may be added here, just in case. Japinderum (talk) 07:45, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. We should go with your lede and title for now. We might want to eventually add a bit of info about when the airlines in the PT were active, and when they weren't, at which time "List of airlines in the Palestinian territories" (or whatever our new title for WB/GS articles becomes) might be a better title, but I don't see how we can do that without finding a source so for now let's go with your idea. Right now the closest thing there is to "airlines currently operating in the Palestinian territories" is "airlines registered with the Palestinian National Authority.". I'm also going to add that "there are no airlines currently operating in the Palestinian territories" to the lede. I'm uncombable doing this without a source, but without that statement this article is misleading and implies that the Arline listed here operating in the PT, and I'm even less combable with the article being this misleading. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 08:43, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I added the airpores listed at Yasser_Arafat_International_Airport#Airlines. Arter adding thise and thinking this over some more I'm not so sure your lede is the best approach. Without a source we can't know that these airlines are still registered with the Palestinian National Authority. Since there are no airlines in Palestine anymore the PNA might not even brother to maintain airline registrations, and even if they do allot of these airlines might not. I think a better lede might be "This is a list of airlines that operated in the Palestinian territories before the closers of Yasser Arafat International Airport and Atarot Airport in 2001, and the closer of Gaza Airstrip. There are no airlines currently operating in the Palestinian territories." Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 18:38, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Articles listing airlines do not list everybody who flies there, but only locally registered companies (e.g. Air France flies to Israel, but isn't included in the List of airlines of Israel), so I reverted the addition of foreign airlines. I also moved the "none operating" note below the table and expanded it a bit with a wikilink to the airports list. It can be further expanded along the lines of "Previously they were operating there, but now they operate only outside".

I think (but lack a source) "Palestinian airlines" are still registered with the PNA, e.g. they are the same company as before - they just restarted their operations (and they are owned by the PNA - see in its article). I think PNA will "bother" with registering them, because they want to have as many state-like institutions as possible and also because they want to re-open some of the local airports, e.g. "preparing for the future". Japinderum (talk) 06:45, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You sure that's how airline lists work? List of airlines of Israel "This is a list of airlines currently operating in Israel" if it were about airlines registered in Israel I would think it would say something to the effect of "This is a list of airlines currently registered in Israel", Air France could just be an omission. There are some like List of airlines of the United States that talk about registration, but there are plenty of airline lists that say "This is a list of airlines currently operating in [country of territory]" If you're right about airline lists then your title and lead are probably the one we should go with. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 20:06, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's not only Air France that's not listed - all non-Israel airlines that fly to/from Israel are not listed. The same at the other lists. Japinderum (talk) 07:20, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - so it is agreed to retitle to List of airlines registered with the Palestinian National Authority?Greyshark09 (talk) 16:17, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Japinderum (talk) 07:20, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Anybody to disagree or should I move it? Japinderum (talk) 08:50, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The move function doesn't work, maybe a move request should be filed. Japinderum (talk) 07:15, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Moved.Greyshark09 (talk) 16:18, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well now (as of a few hours ago), should we move it List of airlines in the State of Palestine? Whatever we go with, it can't be the current title, since it doesn't look like anything will be registered to the PNA anymore... Nightw 04:02, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"in the State of Palestine" means "in the west bank and Gaza" , that would be like renaming it "List of airlines in the Palestinian Territories". If the PLO is merging PNA and SOP (which is the impression I get) then "in the State of Palestine" might become like ""in the State of Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic", which I would think could mean "in the Western Sahara" or "in the Free Zone (region)".

Let's figure out what we're doing with State of Palestine and Palestinian National Authority first, then use that president to figure out what to do with this article. This would affect all articles with "Palestinian National Authority" titles so unless there's a clear precedent at those two articles we would need a centralized discussion about these articles anyway. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 04:55, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]