Talk:List of The Next Step characters

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Cast tables

I don't advocate this often, but since when individual cast members appeared in which season has been removed from the main TV series article, this article is in desperate need of a cast table to show exactly that. See List of Degrassi: The Next Generation characters for a larger scale example of what is needed here. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:03, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

OK, so there were cast tables, buried at the bottom of the article – I have moved those to the top of their respective sections which is the best placement for these. However, I think the "Season A/B" distinctions should be removed from the cast tables – they are needlessly adding complexity to these tables, when they should be simplified for readability... If there are no objections on this, I will simplify the tables thusly sometime in the near future. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 02:23, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Some notes are going to need to be added to the table (e.g. that Tiffany and Stephanie were actually main cast credited through episode #2.4), so I am moving closer to removing the "Season A/B" distinctions from the cast tables in order to simplify them. In short, I will be doing this soon, so this is the last chance to comment on this... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 14:39, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Revisting the Cast Table

OK, so I put a lot of work into the current cast table, eliminating the arbitrary "split season" columns (the fact that the show airs each season in two broadcast batches is not reflected in casting changes, and is thus irrelevant to a cast table), and adding copious 'notes' for the unique way this show handles "main cast" crediting.

And that is the current issue, because NeinMillion is objecting to the way the current table is displayed, and I object to his objections. The issue is that The Next Step is possibly the only show I have ever seen that continues crediting the previous season's cast as "main cast" partly into the "next season":

Season #3 is a perfect example of this (as is season #4) – but in season #3, Beaton (Emily), Clost (Daniel), and Vran (Hunter) continue to be credited as "main cast" the first six episodes of season #3. Season #3 also has the weird case where Shantel Angela Vailloo is credited as main cast in only three of the season's episodes.... But let's look at Beaton's Emily specifically – despite being "main cast" credited for these episodes, she doesn't even appear in all 6 episodes – and she is no longer even on A Troupe due to an injury. Then after ep. #3.6, she is no longer front-credited on the show, and only appears three(?) times throughout the rest of the season. IOW, Emily is not meaningfully "main cast" in season #3, despite getting technically credited that way in the season's first six episodes.

To mark her as "main cast", or to use the green "main cast" color in the cast table, (and ditto on this for Vran and Clost) is incredibly misleading to our readership – anyone seeing that is going to expect Emily to be prominent in season #3. And she isn't. At all. And so Emily in season #3 should not be labeled "main cast", when she is only "technically" credited as such, and for only 6 of 30 episodes. She is for all intents and purposes only "recurring" in season #3.

I'm not exactly sure what the answer is here. It's possible that a "cast table" is just a bad idea to present this information in the specific case of a show like The Next Step, and cast appearances/crediting are better presented as prose text.

Maybe someone has a better idea? --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:02, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

How exactly is using the green cell color misleading? Doing something like "CMain|Recurring" on the template gives the readers the impression that at one point in the season(as evidenced by the footnote next to it), the character was credited as main cast, even if they didn't warrant enough appearances or prominence to be meaningfully marked as "main cast".

Additionally, we could add a legend shown before the cast table (an example of this is List of Grey's Anatomy cast members) like this one that shows that with the green color, they were still front-credited at one point, while the text "Recurring" shows that they only appear in a limited capacity. - NeinMillion (talk) 02:59, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

FTR, I was away from the computer last week, and I still object to the recent changes, and object that the changes were made just 24 hours after NeinMillion posted the above and without giving me an adequate time to respond. (And, no – 24 hours is not that...) Now we have a third poster that has a problem with all of this.

AFAIAC, there are only two options here:

Revert NeilMillion's changes to the table, and go back to what we had before (for all the reasons I laid out above – this is clearly a special WP:IAR case). Or
Just acknowledge that The Next Step is too "oddball" a case to use a cast table at all, and we should just get rid of the cast table, and replace it with a prose explanation of cast (changes).

Considering the long-standing problems cast tables have caused at this article, I actually am starting to lean towards Option #2. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:56, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It should be noted that the opening sequence doesn't even credit the actors themselves, but rather the character.

While it is the closest we have to determine who is "main cast" in this series, there are other characters listed on the table that do not even ever appear on there, such as Chris, Kate, Phoebe and Nick. It is getting to the point where even the indicators are getting subjective (i.e. marking Thalia as "Main" in season 6).

Shantel is another case, she is only credited in 3/30 episodes of Season 3 as main cast (she only appears in 2/3 of those episodes), she is marked as "Main", while Emily, who is credited in 6/30 episodes of Season 3 as main cast is listed as "Recurring". Shantel appeared more during Season 3 in total, yes, however, it seems like the indicators on the table are just being based off of number of appearances rather the credit itself.

Removing the cast table is probably the best choice here, as it is causing more harm than good overall (frequent changes and edits, with indicators that are up for debate being also added into the mix). Brushmint (talk) 05:47, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. But it's worth noting that it's likely that some "subjective choices" will still need to be made vis a vis "Main" vs. "Recurring" cast, even if we eliminate the cast tables (which I think I'm now in favor of too). For example, would Chris, Kate, Phoebe and Nick (and Shantel) belong in the 'Main' cast section or the 'Recurring' cast section? Chris, Kate and Nick (at least) are pretty clearly are "main characters" in some seasons, even if not "credited in the show's opening" as such. So, basically, it's still complicated. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:24, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The latest edit (that I've reverted) further convinces me that a cast table, for at least the main cast, is a bad idea – what was done in that edit is bad for a table, but something like that could work in prose. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 14:16, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, I approve of the changes the IP editor just made to the table (colors) – the seasons in question should at least be in a different color than the green used for "main" cast. This is maybe the solution for Chris, Kate and Nick, as well, to use the {{CAlso starring}} template. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:38, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hm, ok, but what about Daniel and Thalia marked as "Main" in seasons 5 and 6 respectively despite not being in the opening credits? Taylorsparlor (talk) 14:00, 16 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As well as West and Phoebe Taylorsparlor (talk) 14:03, 16 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't object to changing colors of those characters with the {{CAlso starring}} template either, along with Chris, Kate and Nick. It seems fair that anyone who isn't front-credited on the show, or who is only front-credited for a minor number of episodes in a season, should not be colored with the {{CMain}} template. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 14:38, 16 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]