Talk:List of Saini people

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Reference verification

Could somebody verify the following reference?

• Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, Nusrat confirms on the Lok Virsa Vol.1 (Audio CD) (Track 1 - Interview, between 9:10 to 9:50) released by Moviebox, that his family is of Dagar/Saini heritage
• Rahat Fateh Ali Khan, Nephew of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan

thanks --History Sleuth (talk) 02:15, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Investigated this. Khan is talking about his musical influence not his family line. He is referring to Saini Gaharana of music which is probably named after Tan Sen. Khan's family, although originally from an area in Doaba where Sainis have considerable influence, is of Afghan descent.--History Sleuth (talk) 17:02, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

References

This is not a directory

HistorySleuth saw fit to restore a number of non-notables and BLP violations to the list, in this edit, in which they claimed, erroneously, that anything with a reference is notable. They also restored such gems of neutrality as "Famous Punjabi Poet," "world renowned computer engineer & scientist," and "world renowned architect".

Here is the thing: having a reference does not mean a person is notable. Moreover, this text, "All of the following scientists and scholars hold doctoral degrees and/or are otherwise widely published and quoted in peer-reviewed international research publications and newspapers" is entirely meaningless--who says they hold degrees etc.? Moreover, I cannot fathom why you would extend such generosity to scholars but not to other categories.

The convention for such lists is that people with articles are included, if only to prevent a. vanity listings and b. BLP violations. Given those two concerns, I am reverting to a condition that minimizes the chance of BLP violations, and if you have a problem with that, you can take it up on the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard. Drmies (talk) 03:13, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

• • BTW, in regards to this edit, if the person is so notable, why not write up a stub? That's much more in keeping with our guidelines than just dumping them in this list. Drmies (talk) 03:24, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
  • It's done now: Indu Banga. Took five minutes. Drmies (talk) 03:34, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

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Soni Pabla

Dear Wikipedia users,

As we all know that Soni Pabla belongs to Saini community. But according to Wikipedia policies we cant add any person in this article unless he/she have self identified himself/herself to be the member of Saini community. But Soni Pabla is not in this world. He died while performing stage performance in Canada. So, how he will self identify himself to be member of Saini community. Therefore i request to all Wikipedia users not to remove Soni Pabla from this article. I want to add him. Whats your view?

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.97.21.120 (talk) 19:56, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

You need reliable sources. - Sitush (talk) 19:46, 18 March 2012 (UTC)Mr Sitush i am seeing your arrogance here. i added the names of Mr Dilbagh Singh nawanshahr who was ex MLA and ex Cabinet Ministr of Punjab. he belongs to Saini family his son is Mr Charanjit Channi so he is oviously a Saini, Mr Parkash Singh Saini was ex MLA from Nawanshahr and then current MLS is his Wife. I even gave you th links of newspapers but you have given such an absurd reasoning that it is beypnd belief. Moreover Late Mr Girdhahra Singh was also a saini and currently his son Mr Sukhpal Singh nannu also a saini, was MLA from Ferozpur, this I know it becuae i am myself a Saini and they are my relatives. i also provided you the links but you just did not want to add. Before deleting the nams of these persons, please go to Punjab and meet their families or just give them a call and find yourself. So do not try to be the expert in this matter.

Sumedh Singh Saini

Senior IPS officer Sumedh Singh Saini is appointed as new DGP (Director General of Police) of Punjab. Now, whole police force of Punjab is under the hand of the member of Saini community. :-)

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सैनी को डीजीपी बनाने पर मुख्यमंत्री का आभार जताया

संवाद सहयोगी, सुजानपुर (पठानकोट) : सैनी सभा की बैठक गांव फूल प्यारा में जिला प्रधान महिन्द्र सैनी की अध्यक्षता में हुई। बैठक में पंजाब सरकार द्वारा सीनियर आईपीएस अधिकारी सुमेध सिंह सैनी को डीजीपी बनाने पर मुख्यमंत्री प्रकाश सिंह बादल व उपमुख्यमंत्री सुखबीर सिंह बादल का आभार व्यक्त किया गया। इस मौके पर सरपंच राममूर्ति सैनी, सरपंच चरणजीत सैनी, राम स्वरूप सैनी, विशन दास सैनी, रणजीत सैनी, जनक सैनी, अशोक, सुरेन्द्र, जगदीश राज सैनी सहित अन्य भी उपस्थित थे।

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English Translation Of This News:

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Thanked Chief Minister, to appoint Saini as DGP

Sujanpur (Pathankot) : The meeting of Saini community was organised in village Phool Pyara under the leadership of Mahender Saini. In this meeting, Saini community thanked Punjab Government i.e., Chief Minister Prakash Singh Badal and Vice Chief Minister Sukhbir Singh Badal to appoint Senior IPS officer Sumedh Singh Saini as the DGP. On this occasion Sarpanch Ram Murti Saini, Sarpanch Charanjeet Saini, Ram Swaroop Saini, Vishan Daas Saini, Ranjeet Saini, Janak Saini, Ashok, Surender, Jagdish Raj Saini etc were present.

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Reference(Link): http://origin-www.jagran.com/punjab/gurdaspur-9018715.html

SalariaRajput (talk) 09:59, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Definitely does not meet WP:BLP. You have been told before that they must self-identify. - Sitush (talk) 10:41, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

"personalities belonging to Saini Community were honoured"

Saturday, March 31, 2012 - 20:45

By Bahadurjeet Singh

ROPAR: Kaka Ram Saini Charitable Trust organised 30th Saini Sammelan organised at local Saini Bhawan Ropar today.

During the Sammelan,which was dedicated to founder trustee P.C.Saini, various issues relating to Saini community were discussed. Former Police officer Iqbal Singh Lalpura was the chief guest on the occasion. He lauded the efforts being made by the Kaka Ram Saini Charitable Trust for the upliftment of Saini Community.

On the occasion various personalities belonging to Saini Community were honoured for their outstanding contributions in different fields. The honoured personalities include Former State Institute of Education director Dr. Gurdev Singh Joshi, International Hockey player Dharamvir Singh and Baljinder Singh, noted Punjabi singer Gurkirpal Surapuri and Harpal Lad, Journalist Satnam Singh Satti, Army Lieutenant Gagandeep Kaur, Weight Lifter Ravinder Partap Singh, NSS Volunteer Mandeep Kaur Haveli, mentally athlete Ramanpreet Kaur, Kabbaddi player Rajwant Kaur, B. Tech topper Khushvir Kaur Haveli Khurd, Punjab University Student Parvinder Kaur and Jagdeep Singh Thali.

Trust president Dr. Ajmer Singh informed about the activities undertaken by the Trust. He also informed that a website of the Saini Bhawan has been www.sainibhavan.org has also been started by the Trust.

Trust chairman L.R.Mundra ,secretary Balbir Singh,PRO Rajinder Saini also spoke on the occasion.

On the occasion the fifth issue of Magazine ‘Saini Sansar’ was also released and certificates and prizes were distributed among the students who underwent training at Craft and Computer Training centre running at Saini Bhawan.

Referece (Link): http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/saini-sammelan-organised-ropar/40086

SalariaRajput (talk) 10:24, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

http://www.punjabnewsline.com/About%20us About] that source. I am unlikely to have internet access for a few days now. - Sitush (talk) 10:40, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Sandeep Singh

Saini community to honour Sandeep

Local Saini Bhawan Managing Committee has decided to honour star hockey player Sandeep Singh for his outstanding performance in the recently held Olympic Qualifier at New Delhi. Committee chairman L R Mundra, president Ajmer Singh, secretary Balbir Singh, coordinator Gurmukh Singh Laungia, Muncipal Councillor Gurmukh Singh Saini and PRO Rajinder Saini said that Sandeep, who belonged to Saini family of Shahbad in Haryana, had done the Saini community proud with his outstanding performance in the Olympic qualifier. They expressed the hope that Sandeep would continue his good run in the Olympics as well to ensure good performance of the Indian team. They extended their good wishes to the Indian hockey team for Olympics.

Reference (Link): Saini community to honour Sandeep - News.WebIndia123.ComSalariaRajput (talk) 19:05, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Same problem as previously. What the community thinks is irrelevant in a BLP. - Sitush (talk) 20:40, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Only thing relevant here is but "THE' SHITUSH thinks.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.125.80.61 (talk) 03:44, 2 January 2013 (UTC) 

Sandip Duhre

Gunned down gangster Sandip Duhre dodged murder plot years ago. This guy was sadly a Saini...there is nothing to be proud about this. He was a criminal. I did not know Sainis were running such a powerful criminal gang in B.C. (Canada)

Don't follow his example. There a better ways to become mighty and powerful. Duhre's example just shows that the community has its own good, bad and ugly.106.67.2.253 (talk) 15:21, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 August 2021

Both men in question are martyrs, as well as Sikhs. Due to the religious convictions of the martyrs in question, I propose a rather practical editorial solution, as follows:

[[ ]] - Brackets denote what ought to be reflected in the intended edit

Joginder Singh - Sardar Joginder Singh Sahnan

Gurbachan Singh Salaria - Sardar Gurbachan Singh Salaria

Dearest Regards Lost Atheist (talk) 10:34, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:49, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Moving of protection settings from List of Saini People to Saini(surname)

I have noticed that @Cnilep moved protection settings from List of Yadavs to Yadav(surname), according to them this is the usual naming style for surname pages. I think same thing should be done to this page by adding a hatnote that list bears people belongs to Saini caste or bears Saini surname. I have seen that a lot of people have Saini surname and that should be added to this list. anshsaini (talk) 05:57, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

No, if we have to move this page then the appropriate target will be Saini#Notable_people because the title of this list indicates that this is a list of people of the Saini community, rather than being a general surname list. Also, there are Rajput Malis, etc. who also use the Saini surname. So this redirect will further confuse the people. BTW, we can easily copy/paste the two entries in Saini#Notable_people section after redirecting it there. Alternatively, we can wait for some time and see if someone can expand this list with proper sourcing. - NitinMlk (talk) 07:35, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

We can remove the List of Notable People from Saini article, even now it is of now use because that List of Saini People consists only two people, two persons can't be a "List".

What more favorable option is to add a hatnote in the List of Saini People that this list consists of people bearing surname Saini, moreover we can remove it from the main article of Saini, as I said above. anshsaini (talk) 07:50, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Just a heads up: I did not change any protection settings; only an administrator can do that. See Wikipedia:Protection policy. Beyond that, though, I don't really have anything to add to the discussion. Happy editing, Cnilep (talk) 00:36, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 August 2021

Add Labh Singh Saini under a new section of Freedom Fighter because he belongs to Saini caste. As he was died in the year 1947, Self Identification is no more possible. So I am providing reliable sources to claim his Saini origin. Sandalkhushi (talk) 06:19, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

We need reliable, independent sources that actually say he was of the caste. Indian caste memorial committees etc are neither reliable nor independent, and last names are not verification of caste. - Sitush (talk) 07:49, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 07:57, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

References

Saini Surname

As i could see, it had only two names in earlier version and it was looking like a dictionary. I converted it into a surname article and it may contain list of people carrying surname "Saini". This is better as that two names can be included in Saini article as well. Also, i can see that many people with non Saini surname are also there in current version. Anyone interested is free to remove them. Admantine123 (talk) 10:50, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

@Admantine123 I missed this, sorry. It explains the confusion I referred to in my recent messages under "The rules". I don't care which criteria are used but we do need to get consensus - I appreciate that you were being bold but it has left us with a foot in both camps & was quite a mess. - Sitush (talk) 23:57, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

The rules

1. Every entry needs a reliable source that identifies the person as being of the Saini caste

2. If the person is living, that source must show them self-identifying as a Saini, per WP:BLP

3. Last name is NOT verification of caste, per longstanding consensus here. - Sitush (talk) 23:34, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

I should add to this that, despite the lead section saying that the article is for people bearing the name Saini, the list is very obviously being used to show caste members (even those who are not called Saini!). This is how it always was & is reflected in the introduction puffing up the caste. I think the lead may have been adjusted but the list left as it was.

If we want it to actually be a list of people called Saini then that's OK and we won't need sources at all, not even the edit protection currently in place. But we would have to omit any Saini people who do not bear the name.

It's a community decision which way we go. - Sitush (talk) 23:50, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Hey Sitush, I am following that rule of including living people as member of a particular caste only with sources, where they self identify themselves with that caste and in case they are dead, with source mentioning them of belonging to that caste. But, here i tried to convert it into a surname article like Trivedi, Tripathi, Sharma etc. Bearing a particular surname doesn't mean that a person belong to a particular caste as nowadays surnames do not guarantee caste of a person. As for example Sharma surname is used by Brahmins, Bhumihar and even Badhai caste.-Admantine123 (talk) 00:12, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

But we would have to omit any Saini people who do not bear the name. It's a community decision which way we go. I agree with it. Even i felt that there was need to remove people belonging to Saini community not bearing that surname. Like Joginder Singh can be removed from here and included in Saini article as Notable person.-Admantine123 (talk) 00:18, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

@Admantine123 Yes, I understand what you are/were trying to do and as a simple surname list there would be no need for any sources & probably no need for the protection of the article.

It is easy enough to flip to that - I could do it inside an hour tomorrow but I think people will still treat it as a "list of members of the Saini caste", and include those members who don't bear the Saini name. Worse, they will pull the old trick of adding "Saini" to the person's name on the dodgy grounds that the names of all Saini people end in "Saini" even if the people don't use it.

I'm just speaking from experience here. This and the related article about the caste have been some of the most contentiously edited/sockpuppeted/meatpuppeted articles I have dealt with in the last 15 years or so!

As I say, I am happy for it to be a sourced list of caste members, as it was, or an unsourced list of people called Saini, as you recently attempted. But we do need to decide. - Sitush (talk) 00:27, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

That's the problem. Saini surname is used by people from Mali caste as well. And in Uttar Pradesh, it is a surname of another caste group called Kachhi (caste), they are part of a large community known by various names as Maurya, Murao, Shakya etc. We can change the lede to include this information, so that a reader can get it in his first reading that this list is not composed of members of Saini caste only. As for example Dharam Singh Saini is probably a Kachhi.-Admantine123 (talk) 00:32, 14 July 2023 (UTC)