Talk:List of Primitive Baptist churches

Lists List‑class

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lists, an attempt to structure and organize all list pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.ListsWikipedia:WikiProject ListsTemplate:WikiProject ListsList
List	This article has been rated as List-class on the project's quality scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Christianity Low‑importance

	Christianity portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

items needing support

I removed the following items from the mainspace page (List of Primitive Baptist churches). The article has been tagged for a year, about sourcing needed. Could any/all of these items be supported by an explicit inline reference, speaking to existence, Primitive Baptist-ishness, other relevance for this list-article? Please do let's try to avoid being just a directory of possibly non-notable things (see wp:NOTDIR guideline). Items which have separate articles appear to be Wikipedia-notable and I left all of those in the list-article. However items can be included in a list even if they are not individually Wikipedia-notable enough to merit a separate article. Just not sure about these.... --do ncr am 20:44, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Angier Primitive Baptist Church, Angier, North Carolina
Antioch Primitive Baptist Church, Brookhaven, Mississippi
Bethany Primitive Baptist Church, Suwanee, Georgia
Brentwood Hills Primitive Baptist Church, Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas
Camp Creek Primitive Baptist Church, Lilburn, Georgia
Chilhowee Primitive Baptist Church, Happy Valley, Blount County, Tennessee
Cool Springs Primitve Baptist Church, Traveler's Rest, South Carolina
Columbia Primitive Baptist Church, Burtonsville, Maryland
Crossroads Primitive Baptist Church, Atlanta, Georgia
Crossroads Primitive Baptist Church, Woodstock, Georgia
Fellowship Primitive Baptist Church, Warner-Robins, Georgia
~~Flint River Primitive Baptist Church, Huntsville, Alabama~~ added back to main page, with source
Good Hope Baptist Church, Magee, Mississippi
Grant's Mill Primitive Baptist Church, Brimingham, Alabama
Moriah Primitive Baptist Church, Athens, Georgia
Mount Carmel Primitive Baptist Church, Bel Air, Maryland
Mount Gilead Primitive Baptist Church, Milledgeville, Georgia
Mount Olive Primitive Baptist Church, Roanoke, Virginia
Mount Paran Primitive Baptist Church, Monroe, Georgia
New Bethel Baptist Church, Tylertown, Mississippi
Oak Grove Primitive Baptist Church, Caochran, Georgia
Oak Hill Primitive Baptist Church, Austin, Texas
Prattville Primitive Baptist Church, Prattville, Alabama
Primitive Baptist Church, Cades Cove, Tennessee
Pulaski Primitive Baptist Church, Pulaski, Virginia
Shiloh Primitive Baptist Church, Loganville, Georgia
Shoal Creek Primitive Baptist Church, Canton, Georgia
Stephenville Primitive Baptist Church, Stephenville, Texas
Tidewater Primitive Baptist Church, Norfolk, Virginia
Tippacanoe Primitive Baptist Church, Tippacanoe, Indiana
Vestavia Primitive Baptist Church, Birmingham, Alabama
Union Primitive Baptist Church, Ruth, Mississippi
Zion's Rest Primitive Baptist Church, Jasper, Alabama
Littlevine Primitive Baptist Church, Dothan, Alabama
New Fellowship Primitive Baptist Church, Hillsville, VA
Blue Ridge Fellowship, Willis, VA
Indian Creek Primitive Baptist Church, Indian Valley, VA

Here is a source for Flint River Primitive Baptist Church of Alabama: www.flintriverpbc.org. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.73.196.98 (talk) 00:09, 29 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that! Its subpage http://www.flintriverpbc.org/about/our-church-history shows a historical plaque photo and asserts it is the oldest Baptist church in Alabama. Great, good enough for me, adding back to the list in main article. --do ncr am 18:08, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a link for general info on Grants Mill Primitive Baptist Church of Alabama: http://pbdirectory.org/Alabama.htm ElderHap (talk) 18:15, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Selection criteria

I think that this list could only possibly go with the first of the three possible criteria listed in WP:CSC. Obviously the second cannot apply as some Primitive Baptist churches do meet WP:N and have an article. And the third cannot apply because realistically this list can never be complete and even if it could, it would not be short. That leaves the first, "Every entry meets the notability criteria for its own non-redirect article in the English Wikipedia." With this in mind I will remove a listing that, now cited to its website, does not have a Wikipedia article. Novaseminary (talk) 02:40, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Umm, i think the church item you removed is indeed an entry that meets the 1st criteria, i.e. that " meets the notability criteria for its own non-redirect article in the English Wikipedia. Red-linked entries are acceptable if the entry is verifiably a member of the listed group, and it is reasonable to expect an article could be forthcoming in the future." As supported by a source, the church is asserted to be the oldest Baptist church in the state. It seems reasonable to include the redlink and support the creation of an article for it now or in the future. --do ncr am 03:15, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I did a search for sources. I could not find enough to meet ORG or N. The ref is on the church's own website, though I did find mention of the claim in a newspaper, but nothing more of note. The most coverage my quick search found was of a nearby murder. I doubt an article is forthcoming, and if there is one, I think it will have N problems. Of course, I could be wrong. If the church gets an article (Flint River Primitive Baptist Church), and it meets N and is not deleted this would be a fine addition to this list. Otherwise, until there I consensus for this addition, it should stay out. Novaseminary (talk) 03:36, 23 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

With this edit, I again removed a redlink that may not meet WP:ORG and a bare listing without a redlink or even source. We all agree these need to meet CSC #1. So, create the article and add the link rather than repeatedly adding a redlink and arguing about whether an article could be created. It would be great to expand this list, but only with churches that have articles or are likely to soon get them. As soon as Flint River Primitive Baptist Church gets an article I would be happy to personally add it back to this list. Novaseminary (talk) 19:56, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) I restored it again just now, after Novaseminary deleted it, and it may have been restored and deleted one time more previously. There is in fact perhaps a "consensus" of 2 editors commenting here or in the article, that it seems notable, and one editor opposing its inclusion. There is certainly not a "consensus" against including it. As noted above, it is apparently clearly a Primitive Baptist church, and it appears notable for being the oldest Baptist church in its state. I wonder, Novaseminary, could you please come up with a citation saying this is notable or not? It seems prudent to keep it in the list-article. Note, please, by the way, that criteria for inclusion in a list-article is a lower standard than for creating or keeping a separate Wikipedia article. --do ncr am 19:59, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There is obviously no consensus (WP:CONSENSUS). Only two of us have discussed, and this is material that you are seeking to add. As for the substance, CSC 1 is exactly the same criteria as WP:N, and there is no way 2 or 3 apply, of course."Every entry meets the notability criteria for its own non-redirect article in the English Wikipedia. Red-linked entries are acceptable if the entry is verifiably a member of the listed group, and it is reasonable to expect an article could be forthcoming in the future." For the reasons I stated above, I do not believe "it is reasonable to expect an article could be forthcoming in the future" for Flint River Primitive Baptist Church because, among other reasons, despite the argument here, no article has been created after months. And I have not seen enough to make me believe an article should be created. Of course, I cannot find a reference to state that this church is not notable. But prove me wrong, create the article and make sure it passes N. As for Rehobeth Primitive Baptist Church, it does not even pass WP:V as a sentence as it is, let alone satisfy CSC. Novaseminary (talk) 20:06, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

more recent items

Recently added by a new editor, and then removed by editor Novaseminary, were:

Especially because the removal eradicated 100% of the user's cumulative contributions to wikipedia, I hope that we could find our way to restoring some or all of these. Can we do some searching on these and find some support for re-adding them? --do ncr am 15:55, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

1823 is the year that "Elder Green Carawan of Hyde County organizes the Goose Creek Island Primitive Baptist Church", per this blogspot.com timeline, which I have no reason to doubt. This supports it being a historic, likely-wikipedia notable place. There's confusing-to-me additional info at a north carolina digital library page, covering earlier events. --do ncr am 16:04, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

the links at the church's name

The links are mostly to articles about the church building. Actually I thought they would be about the church as such. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 17:56, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on List of Primitive Baptist churches. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100621070147/http://www.ocgi.okstate.edu/shpo/shpopic.asp?id=04000123 to http://www.ocgi.okstate.edu/shpo/shpopic.asp?id=04000123

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:26, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

How do these fit in to what I have seen on Wikipedia?

The Historical Marker Database (hmdb.org) site has an entry which has a plaque I have seen in person today: "Oldest Primitive Baptist Church in America". It is Welsh Tract, near Newark, Delaware.

I have a Revolutionary ancestor Simeon Harris who is listed as being Primitive Baptist minister in the area of Barbour and Randolph counties, an area in Virginia when he died in 1847, but now West Virginia, due west of Washington DC and due south of Pittsburgh. Carlm0404 (talk) 21:28, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Notice there is an article on wikipedia for Welsh Tract Baptist Church. Carlm0404 (talk) 21:42, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]