Talk:List of Omnitrix aliens/Archive 3

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Ghostfreak Re-examination

So Ghostfreak is once again a part of the Omnitrix, but the silhouette suggests that it is the unprotected version of Ghostfreak. Isn't Ghostfreak's eye stationary now without the protective skin? Does that mean that the advantage of moving his eye along a track should be cropped out, as well as his other skin advantages? Magugag 06:04, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I think not. This article contains encyclopedic facts and such facts are not mutable by the whims of some television writer. If we discover that the Omnitrix really does have a different version of Ghostfreak from the original version, than this new version needs to be addressed separately. It cannot replace the original Ghostfreak because that Ghostfreak still exists in the earlier episodes. -- Lilwik 06:56, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

So then what you're saying is that we either make a Ghostfreak and a Ghostfreak 2.0 article, or else we make note of powers that he once had and add in that the form no longer has them? Magugag 07:46, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

That is about what I was saying, but remember that when we talk about fiction we must try to use the present tense whenever we can. If Ghostfreak loses his powers then he has them in early episodes and he does not have them in later episodes. We don't say that he no longer has them because he still has them in early episodes. I hope that makes sense. -- Lilwik 07:51, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

^Meh. Not really, but I get it.^ Once again, it is speculation, therefore it cannot be in the article. Yet. Who knows, maybe Ghostfreak 2.0 has the same powers, just with different presentation (i.e: Instead of a single eye moving along a track, a serperate eye can emerge from the skin temperarily).

Isn't the whole point of the Omnitrix that it takes aliens DNA and upgrades it so it doesn't have any of the weaknesses (e.g. Ripjaws has legs were as the orginal can't be on land, XCLR can run on water etc). So Ghostfreak 2.0 would have all the same powers as the orginal Ghostfreak, but can only work at night since he doesn't have that protected skin. On a second note, are we dissmissing the image of the orginal Ghostfreak on the Omnitrix when it absorbed the DNA of the Mummy in "Under Wraps" as an animation error? Wild ste 12:48, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

In 'Ghostfreaked Out', Ghostfreak says that the Omnitrix gets rid of photosensitivity. Why else would he be so contempt to take over Ben? So if Ghostfreak 2.0 is inside the Omnitrix, then the weakness should be eliminated. And I also think that apart from the first ten, which were the ones with noticable advantages, were taken as samples. So the scientists (which one of them might be Xylene) could manipulate the DNA on spot, while the ones sampled wouldn't have the consiousness to create advantages. But all is just speculation... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.249.99.139 (talk) 16:40, 21 April 2007 (UTC).

Yeah, I thought so too, but in the newest appearances of Ghostfreak, he never mentioned the photosensitivity at all, just the fact that the Omnitrix was a powerful weapon. In fact, he totally dropped the being 'complete' thing he mentioned in Ghostfreaked out. That leads me to believe that Ghostfreak 2.0 is indeed still photosensitive even though he's been re-added to the Omnitrix. Magugag 03:24, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm still wondering where it was ever shown that Ghostfreak had telepathic or telekinetic abilities. --Piemanmoo 07:13, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Right now, those are sourced to Ghostfreaked Out and Last Laugh respectively. In Ghostfreaked Out, Ghostfreak was able to communicate with Ben by invading his dreams, which is something similar to telepathy. In Last Laugh, a board flies out of nowhere and strikes Zombozo in the face; this appears to have been minor telekinesis. You Can't See Me! 08:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Meh, I re-watched both episodes, and both feats seem pretty apparent that no telekinesis or telepathy were involved. First, the board was most likley thrown by Ghostfreak while he was invisible. Second, Ghostfreak could have been invading Ben's dreams due to the fact that his conciousness is still active inside the omnitrix, and thus his DNA is also a part of Ben. So it seems that there's actualy no solid proof, so I'm going to take down that line under advantages. If anyone has any other instances, feel free to share them.--Piemanmoo 06:08, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Try actually clicking the refs. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 07:04, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

i say there is telekinieses because in ghostfreaked out some test tubes birst for no reason and a sprinkler turned on 81.98.152.16 16:06, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

In regard to Ghostfreak's "skin" I don't think the Omnitrix upgrades alien DNA at all. I think the DNA samples for Ripjaws and Ghostfreak that were originally put into the Omnitrix were genetically modified first. Ben 10 09:27, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. Otherewise in Be Afraid of the Dark when Ben regains ghostfreak, it is a natural ectonurite. If it did upgrade it, it would be protected again unless he ripped it off and had the watch time out. But there is also evidence to the contrary. The mummies arm and shin guards are an upgrade. They protect the arms and shins. But the mummy was absorbed. So it was not pre-installed. This means that it can upgrade but does not do it all the time. U follow me? Benvicktor 21:10, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I guess so. Of course, the mummy doesn't really need protection, because he can recover from just about any blow. And no fair stealing my idea with the name thing! (just kidding). -Ben 10 8:14, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

U r right. But 2 settle all of this i will give the new answer about the 'Upgrades'. The Omnitrix does not Upgrade. It modifies. Problem settled!Benvicktor 23:49, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the reason the Omnitrix gets rid of some of the weaknesses isn't because of the Omnitrix itself, it's because the creator of the Omnitrix modified the forms when he originally added them in. Hence, Ghostfreak is no longer protected. XLR8 and Ripjaws, however, did have certain things added in. As for the mummy's shin guards, that's probably just an example of the Omnitrix adapted clothing or something for the mummy. MegaWhatt 15:11, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Subzero

I recently traveled to Cartoon Network Studios (my dad was offered a job), and I overheard some planning of an ice alien of Ben 10, supposed to bein the 4th season. I didn't hear much, but I do know that the name is Subzero. He is an ice alien, with almost the same powers as Heatblast.

Could sommeone confirm this, or at least prove that this is true?24.126.81.143 16:22, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

There is no way any of this can be proven, therefore, no. It cannot be used at all. -Sukecchi 16:31, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Right, right. The "My *relative* works there/went there/recieves messages from..." excuse. Nobody ever buys this, for future reference. In any case, I doubt they would give Ben yet another Ice-based alien, after influenza-induced Heatblast and Articguana. You Can't See Me! 18:38, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, Benvictor doesn't have any new powers except that lightning thing, and we already knew that Ben gets a Megawhatt at some point anyway, so they might. And pardon me, Mister Invisible, but how do you know he didn't go there. I'm not saying people don't make stuff up, but let's try to be a little optimistic, shall we? -Ben 10 8:27, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if he went there or not. We can't use this information because it might and probably for all we know isn't true. You hear these stories all the time "My ___ was offered a job..." "My ___ works at ___ and he heard..." " My ___'s ___ works at ___ and he told me..." You know the drill, uncredible. Can't take it as truth or fiction, we just can't use it. -Sukecchi 12:40, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

But seriously, he was. I really did hear them. I'm not lying. Even though you guys have heard it before , that dosen't mean it's not true. So I'm guessing end of 3rd season or beginning of 4th season. You gotta belive me. I don't play.24.126.81.143 18:22, 16 April 2007

Refer to all of the above. Specifically:

• Nobody falls for it
• It cannot be sourced
• It is unlikely

You Can't See Me! 08:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Well he might be right we just have to wait and see.

Since it hasn't been confirmed, it is technically speculation. Therefore, it cannot be in the article. Problem solved. Not that I believe it ISN'T true. It's just that it cannot be proved true, therefore it can't be in the article. In my personal opinion, I say we keep this news in mind, just so we can (dis)credit it once and for all. Innocent until proven guilty, afterall. 68.249.99.139 17:54, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Plus, even if it was real, do you really think that they would give an ice allien the name Sub Zero, its a bit cliche? Wild ste 18:55, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.226.237.115 (talk) 17:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

I would say to keep an open mind, but I would say it's probably false. I know this may not belong, but here's a new alien with (possibly) the power to duplicate: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/53638217/ , he's at the bottom right corner, and no this is not just some fan drawing. BlueX511 03:14, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, .24.126.81.143, I think you're going to have th just put up with skeptics for now. I once tried to post a section for theories about the aliens, including a theory of mine about Heatblast. I reasoned that, since even ONE species existing on a star was a stretch, it seemed unlikely that Heatblast was part of an ecosystem as we are. I therefore deduced that Heatblast's race probably fed on the energy from the star itself, and that his ability to absorb flame was in essence a means of ingestion. My theories were repeatedly deleted and I finally stopped bothering, but in the end the truth proved my theory correct. I'm guessing it will go the same for you. In the long and short of it, you know the truth and God knows the truth. So who else really matters, right? -Ben 10 12:04, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

If there is an alien with the power of replication would that mean that they'll be more Bens when the watch deactivates? Can you imagine the look on Gwen's face if that is the case? Anubiz 18:07, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Ben, your theories were deleted because they could not be sourced. You cannot go onto Wikipedia, say "Heatblast must eat fire because he lives on a star," and expect that to stay. Wikipedia is not for things made up in school one day. Unless a primary source confirmed the Pyronite's diet being fire (which it did), it could not be added; likewise, unless a primary source confirms that an ice alien named Subzero is added to the watch (which is extremely unlikely) it cannot go on, regardless of what 24.126.81.143 "heard." You Can't See Me! 02:38, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I understand that, although my theories were "sourced" by simple scientific logic. All I was trying to say in this case was that 24.126.81.143 has nothing to worry about as long as he / she is telling the truth, because integrity is what really matters in life. Nothing anybody says will effect the truth. My theories were only an example in this case. -Ben 10 14:17, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Logic requires prediction. Prediction is not allowed in articles. And by the way, you didn't source your 'simple scientific logic'. So the problem still is, that you didn't source.67.38.38.72 20:28, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

What I meant was that it was simply something that science dictated. And this site has had predictions before. For instance, Heatblast's weakness to water was on Wikipedia long before it was actually stated. Come to think of it, I think he survived actually falling into water at one point in that episode with the Kangaroo Commando, so maybe that weakness is not as severe as we thought. -Ben 10 13:55, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't know of any physical law that states that a creature that lives on a star will eat fire. No, science does not dictate it. That is logical prediction, and despite there being predictions before, they are not allowed (hence why they are not there now).

As for falling in water, it is already noted that Pyronites can swim for short periods of time. You Can't See Me! 22:41, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I sayes somthing about there iner core allowes them to swim.Anubiz 00:04, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I didn't realize there was anything saying they could swim. And of course there is no law of science as we know it saying that a creature living on a star must eat fire, because no such creature exists as far as we know. However, biology dictates that for life to exist, there must be a source of energy. WE get our energy from our food. which is derived from our ecosystem. But an ecosystem existing on a star is absurd. Even one species dwelling on a star is crazy. But if it did, it would still have to get energy from somewhere. BESIDES, THE POINT IS NOT MY THEORIES! THE POINT IS THAT, IN THE END, I WAS RIGHT. AND IF 24.126.81.143 KNOWS THAT WHAT HE OR SHE SAID IS TRUE, THERE'S NO NEED TO WORRY BECAUSE THE TRUTH WILL COME OUT EVENTUALLY! -Ben 10 16:49, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Your theories being correct have nothing to do with this. What I'm trying to get across is this: you cannot add speculation to Wikipedia. If at the end of one episode, Ben falls off of a ledge while he cannot activate his Omnitrix, Gwen and Max are tied up and cannot assist him, there are clearly spikes at the bottom of the room, and the next episode is entitled: "Ben Dies and Max and Gwen Try to Revive Him," you still cannot add to Ben's profile, "Ben temporarily died," until the episode airs. You may consider it physical law, logic, or simply obvious, as would I, but Wikipedia still calls it speculation. That's as obvious as I can put it. You Can't See Me! 00:35, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Ben, drop it. That you were "right" matters little. Also, don't type in all capital letters like some raving forum-goer. It's annoying and only destroys your credibility. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 00:59, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

As I said last time, the point is not my theories. The point is that as long as 24.126.81.143 maintains his/her integrity, he/she has nothing to worry about, because the truth will eventually come out. I was simply trying to be nice to him/her because some people have such narrow minds. My theories were an example, and only that. Satisfied? -Ben 10 9:04, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Hehe, Ben Dies and Max and Gwen Try to Revive Him!! LOL! In any case, everybody stop picking on everybody. 24.126.81.143 just wanted to add a rumor/piece of news/possible spoiler to the site, and Ben was just trying to show support to him/her. There are enough arguments on Wikipedia without you (Ben 10/You can't see me/all dis/argeers) continuing on like this!!

Oh, by the way, though science says that all things require oxygen, water, shelter, and food, it is specifically stated that these only imply to EARTH organisms. Connect the dots. 68.251.178.201 22:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Ben, I don't think you get what I'm trying to say. I am not criticizing your theories or his/hers (well, I did criticize them, but for seperate reasons entirely). What I'm getting at here is that you are encouraging people to put their theories on Wikipedia. Theorizing is good. By all means, go for it. Just not on Wikipedia. What you're doing here, even if you don't realize it, is telling 24.126.81.143 that it is okay to assert that his/her tidbit here. While you think that you are being encouraging and supportive, which is all good and necessary in real life, you might be giving off the wrong message. Do you see what I mean? You Can't See Me! 22:39, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough, You Can't See Me!. I guess I was encouraging people to put speculation on Wikipedia, where in all fairness it dopesn't belong. Perhaps when something seems logical but is unconfirmed, it would be better either to leave it alone or, if there is sufficient valid evidence, state that "it seems likely that..." or something along those lines, like, "It seems likely that at some point between the present and the future shown in 'Ben 10,000,' Ben learns to artificially enhance the Omnitrix." (just as an example of something to say). You're right, the talk page is the best spot for such theories. Or better yet, a different website. Oh, and 68.251.178.201? Actually there is no scientific law stating that only Earth organisms need those things to survive. For example ona a planet with no oxygen, obviously life would have to operate differently. However, if conditions on an alien world are similar to those on Earth, it stands to reason that life there would have similar needs. And obviously some things are similar on the planets from which the Omnitrix aliens come. For instance, Ripjaws is able to breathe water the same as any Earth fish, so the water must be similar on its planet. All the aliens that need to breathe air (Gray Matter, Fourarms, Stinkfly, etc) cbreathe Earth's air, thus they must have similar atmospheres on their planets. You see my point? Obviously, though, this tells us nothing about the planets of those aliens which have been shown to be able to survive in vaccum (Upgrade, BenMummy, BenVicktor), Ghostfreak), but it does tell us about those that do breathe. -Ben 10 16:44, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Damn, let it go already. Stop posting volumes of crap. It doesn't make your point valid. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 21:20, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I guess I'm just born to argue. There's no way around it. -Ben 10 13:14, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, those guys did miss your point. Several times, in fact! I got it quite clearly. You agreed speculation could not be posted, and assured the poster that if his information was right, he didn't need to worry cause it would get here when it was proven right. Never once did you say that your observation being true justified speculation in Wikipedia. In fact, you clearly stated that it did not! So actually, your point was completely valid and totally agreed with those two. Hm. Either they like picking people apart with no just cause, or they don't actually read what others post. Magugag 01:03, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Magugag. It's good to know that there are people online who actually pay attention to stuff I say outside my fanfiction gallery on Balto Source. -Ben 10 15:05, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Pardon me, but, straying back to the orignal discussion, was the ice alien Arctisguana named by Ben10k to be AbsoluteZero? Ben 10k said he stopped naming them, but plain ol' Ben 10 may have named him and 10k forget the exact name!

That wasn't how future Ben made it sound. He said he didn't name them anymore, but then tried making up a name on the spot. Furthermore, if present Ben acquires that alien now, he is likely to remember his visit to the future and name it Arctiguana anyway. --DarkfireTaimatsu 19:47, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Good point, Darkfire. You're absolutely correct, that's probably how it would go. Of course then again, Ben 10k should've remembered naming the ice alien "Arcticguana" back when he was Ben 10, so he'd obviously forgotten a few things. Hey, maybe Arcticguana is Subzero, and Ben 10k just remembered it wrong. Of course then Ben 10 would remember seeing that alien before and name it Articguana in the present, unless it changed a LOT over time so he didn't recognize the form he originally got. Ack! Time travel. --Ben 10 11:05, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I was prepared for that. Ben isn't the smartest kid in America. However, calling the ice alien Arcticguana may cause a paradox, as Ben 10 as 10k isn't supposed to know the name of the alien and be told by his past self. And before anyone says "But Ben 10 just said that!", in fact he changed his post as I was typing this. Excellent points though, it's interesting to talk with a community like this. 86.41.207.1 07:45, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Somehow I suspect this is exactly why God didn't give us the brains to invent time travel, outside of science fiction and a few wacky theories. But what I said about how maybe Ben didn't recognize the "Arcticguana" he originally got, and thus originally named it "Subzero," Let me try explaining it this way. Arcticguana resembles a lizard, yes, but who can say it's not some sort of amphibian, and as such undergoes metamorphosis. For example, Ben may have accquired the alien when it was at a previous state that might look more like something else, say an eel or snake of some kind. Not recognizing what would one day become Arcticguana, he dubbed it "Subzero." It's a bit far-fetched, but possible. --Ben 10 16:44, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I see. Also, it could be a different alien, as you pointed out before. Can MegaWhatts create portals? No. Can Vicky travel through electricty? No. Ben would need those different powers at different times, making both aliens worth using. 86.41.207.1 07:45, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that's a good point. I wonder if Subzero (assuming that all this turns out to be true) can travel via ice slides like Iceman, or something like that. If he has powers similar to, but opposite of Heatblast's that would certainly make sense. --Ben 10 8:26, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

You know subzero could be a larve/baby form of artictunna remember how wildmutt dramatically changed, he gained one eye, strips, and a tail which makes it possible for this "subzero" to change into any alien who could just about look the same, pretty much like how a caterpillar which is just a baby/kid like Ben would change into a butterfly which is an adult like Ben 10,000, see a caterpillar looks nothing like a butterfly, but it still changes into it eventually, or we can go with User:86.41.207.1|86.41.207.1's idea 21:02 May 31, 2007: Youknowme(youdon'tknowme)

This is getting forumish. It's about time to end discussion here. You Can't See Me! 07:44, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. 'Bout time this ended.

Well, I have something to say! I honestly e-mailed Man of Action about an alien idea, and it was an ice dragon! Either it's just me, or our stories are connected-Sheenfanficker 17:26, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Cannonbolt

I don't mean to nag, but why was Cannonbolt's advantage of fitting others in his shell with him taken out?? It's proven useful on several occasions, especially when it comes to rescuing one of the less durable characters in a pinch. Basically, what I'm asking is that if I put this advantage back in, would one of you delete it? I can attribute it to an episode and everything. Magugag 06:18, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Speculation, OR, and general vandalism all around

It's hard to keep up here. Not to mention, at several points grammar fixes have been reverted, especially under Megawhatt ("Is possible to be moved very fast"). Does anybody agree that semi-protection is the answer? You Can't See Me! 20:34, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Probably now, especially after the whole Upchuck image fight. Pacific Coast Highway ^{{talk • contribs}} 20:51, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I have semiprotected it for 72 hours. Please try to clean the article up, and reference as much as possible, as well as warn users with a {{verror}} tag if necessary. If more time is needed, you can request protection again after more vandalism hits the article. -- ReyBrujo 21:33, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I think you guys should KEEP this article protected. It's a major improvement if you ask me. People are always trying to start trouble with Ben 10 and the fact the most people regard wiki as "fact" produces major headaches. I honestly dont know how you guys can keep up otherwise. ~~spikedwarrior 00:10, 15 April 2007

Well, it's both a good idea and bad idea. For one, there are a bunch of idiots out their trying to screw with the article. But there are also those non-Wikimembers who are more observant than the members. Myself included. I was first to notice Grey Matter's tongue, Benmummy's easily-breakable bonds (deleted in about a second, though.), Wildvine's aversion to fire (why isn't it on the lock, though? Wildvine's obviously averting the fire fearfully in "Super Alien Hero Buddies"), and Benwolf's heightened senses (well, I put on hearing and smell as two seperate ones. Then someone edited it to one advantage). 68.249.99.139 17:48, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Most creatures hate fire, that doesn't make it a weakness. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 18:26, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

He is a plant so he would, burn baby!Anubiz 21:09, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Fire does not automatically trump plants; only dried plants. You can take a match to a moist leaf and it won't do you any good until you completely vaporize the fluid. At that point, it's not any more weak to fire than, say, a human would be.

As for Benmummy's easily-breakable bonds, that's not a weakness either. That would be like saying XLR8's speed is a weakness because he cannot reach 600 mph. Having the wraps is an advantage on its own. A "weak" advantage is still an advantage, not a disadvantage. You Can't See Me! 22:52, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

His easy to tear body is something of a disadvantage, regardless of the fact that he can repair himself to any extent. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 22:57, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, yeah. The tearable body is a disadvantage, but that's a different question. What I'm trying to say is that the tearable bindings (as in, when strong beings escape his wrap through tearing it) is not a disadvantage. It's kinda' hard to explain what I mean... Think of it this way:

While the bonds are easily breakable, that's still more of an ability than the average being has. Bindings are escapable almost by nature in action shows. Besides, while wrapping up Tetramands or Petrosapiens would clearly be to no avail, it is still extremely effective against beings with only average upper-body strength (humans, terrestrial animals, Kinecelerans, Gourmands, Megawhatts, Lepidopterrans, etc). You Can't See Me! 23:12, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Very true. Then again, one must remember Ben's targets are usually aliens, more often than not ones with strength matching that of his aliens.

Still Wildvine's speases seames too be phirophobick, with carrys over to Ben in that form.Anubiz 23:36, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

If you're going to try to suggest something, I'd suggest spelling properly. Still, even if you had spelled all that correctly, you don't even know what you're talking about. We've never seen Wildvine's species. We've only seen Wildvine, and he does not seem particularly afriad of fire, no more than any normal person at least. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:53, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

My learning impairment has nothing to do with my intelligence or lack there of. Furthermore the fear of fire could not have come from Ben becaus he would've freaked out every time he went Heatblast. Therefore Wildvines speases must have an instinctual fear of fire.Anubiz 00:13, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

"Ahh, I'm on fire, I'm on fire" ring a bell? He did freak out when first becoming Heatblast. He's learned there's nothing to fear and stopped. You still don't know what you're talking about, because Wildvine never goes "OMFG fire!" and freaks out. He avoids fire, as would anything not made of flame and not confident of surviving it. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 00:16, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

No must be from an episode that I messed, very well then I know when I am defeated. Wildvine is not afraid of fire. Who's the wiseguy who keeps turning that picture into a pitcher of the toy? Anubiz 00:22, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

The episode showing Wildvine's pyrophobia is "Super Alien Hero Buddies". As for the picture, who knows? This means that even under semi-protection, the page is still being messed with. We could go into full-protection, but I don't think Administrators are that interested in Ben 10 to update it. And for Benmummy's easily-breakable bonds thing, I'd still consider it a pretty big weakness. He cannot hold down or graple strong enemy's, it takes, even if it is miniscule, TIME to repair the bandages, causing an interuption in battle flow, he cannot hold on for very long to ledges, because the bandages would rip, ect.

That episode doesn't show pyrophobia. It shows an aversion to fire, something any living creature has. As for the bandages, they're not that weak. If they were, pulling switches and most other tasks would be impossible. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 22:15, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Maybe Jewelchest could have a "outher" setion after Disavatoges stating the braking thing.(could some help with my boxes?)Anubiz 22:42, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

That name sounds stupid. Also, that would be pointless. It is a weakness, but not that much of one. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:43, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

It's better than Benmummy.Anubiz 00:04, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Granted, but it's the official name. Ben's not the most creative person when it comes to naming conventions ("Hey, I've got four arms... I'll call myself Fourarms!"; "This fly stinks. How about Stinkfly!"; "I'm made of diamonds, and I have a head. Let's go with Diamondhead!"). In my opinion, Cannonbolt, Heatblast, and Greymatter (and possibly Upgrade, since it's not a portmanteau or a pun) are the cream of the crop among his names, and they're still not all too creative. Yet we go with them, because they're official names. You Can't See Me! 04:12, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Do not frogit the writers are trying to come up with names that a 10 year old would. If the show was about say a 16 year girl they will all have better names.Anubiz 09:43, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

My favorite names are Grey Matter and XLR8. Grey Matter because it shows that Ben knows something other than how to count and read. XLR8 because it's witty (though technically incorrect, as 'accelerating' requires a change in speed, direction, or both. So actually the name would only apply when XLR8 starts or stops, or makes a turn).

Kinda like horror movies the better the kills the worse the movie, The better the name the worse the Alien. Ripjaws has the best name.Anubiz 20:03, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

When did they say wildvine was sensetive to cold and don't say logic !

It is not that easy to name aliens I tried! He is not doing a bad job!

When ben names an alien the trait in the name from the alien has something other aliens don't have.

Four arms is the only alien with four arms and the arms are probably the most noticible and striking thing. And stink fly is more than noticibly stinky. Which other aliens don't have.

Grass loses to Fire, Ice, Bug and Flying. Anubiz 02:11, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

You forgot Poison. In any case, Wildvine's weakness to the cold came from his toy info. There is nothing at all to support that he is weaker to fire than any other non-Pyronite (or otherwise fireproof/resistant) being. You Can't See Me! 02:37, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

There is no evedice to sporit that he is not weak agenst fire eather. Also for all we know Wildvine's weakesses are the same as grass tipe Pokémon.Anubiz 12:37, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Ugh... Think clearly for a second. There is no evidence that he is weak against it, so the article does not say that he is weak against it. There is no evidence that he is not weak to it, so the article does not say that he isn't weak to it. And what could possibly imply that Ben 10 and Pokemon utilize the same internal logic? I suppose Stinkfly's inability to fly when too much water gets on his wings should translate to Pokemon as Bug-types being weak against water. But it doesn't. You Can't See Me! 20:00, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

1. Doble negites are hard
2. Syifter and Beedrill can't fly with wet wings eather
3. I was kidding Anubiz 00:58, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Why does everybody critizize the way Ben names his aliens?He is not bad.

Because he is not good eather, He did not name the 3 freeks at all.Anubiz 17:50, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

True very true I was thinking the same thing and zombolt was a good idea Anubiz.Typo you don't have to bite me.

It's "Anubiz" aneyway The "Vitour" is kinda hard to name so people should not complane.Anubiz 22:43, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Who said I'm complaining.

I ment people in geniral. Anubiz 01:41, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Hard? I can think of alternate names right off the bat for Wildmutt, Fourarms, Diamondhead, Heatblast, Ghostfreak, Benmummy, and Benvicktor. Then again, I'm older than a ten year old. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.251.178.201 (talk) 22:04, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

Alrigth tell me .Anubiz 17:50, May 3 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, hadn't been on for a bit. Anyways... Wildmutt: Feral, Fourarms: Berserker, Diamondhead: Crystalis, Heatblast: Inferno, Ghostfreak: Poltregeist (or however you spell it) Benmummy: Rahotehp (yes, I know that's what the old rumor was, but that's actually very witty. I applaud whoever though it up), Benvictor: Frankenben (if I had to use another 'Ben' name, that would be it). Note: These are just off the top of my head. If I seriously though about it for a while (I'm sure Ben had ample time to think good names up, considering the mass traveling they've done), I could refine these. Nicknames should be catchy, but short. So yes, it is a bit challenging. 68.249.104.17 19:42, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Benwolf's weakness

Will the person who keeps saying Benwolf is colorblind quit it? Unless either it is confirmed by an official source, Ben makes a comment about Benwolf being colorblind, or we actually see through his or the other wolf's eyes, you have no proof. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MegaWhatt (talk • contribs) 23:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

From the wolf's point of view in "The Return"... Care to continue complaining? — Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I love how there was already a source too. How humorous indeed. -Sukecchi 23:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Looks like stigmatism too me.Anubiz 23:37, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, the alien werewolf saw the world as monochromatic. It's accurate. Magugag 23:55, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh. Really sorry about that. After it had already been deleted before I kinda assumed that it was false. Sorry again.MegaWhatt 00:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure it's no big deal. After all, it's fixed now! Magugag 00:51, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it has another weakness. In the same episode, Max put a muzzle on it, disabling its sonic howl.

If I tied you up, you wouldn't be able to use your arms. Would that be a weakness? — Someguy0830 (T | C) 01:57, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Sarcastic retort alert! Only if you couldn't use your legs! *Ba-rum-deesh!* —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.38.40.46 (talk) 00:33, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

Someguy, I believe it would. Besides, it is a weakness that Ghostfreak isn't able to go invisible or intangible if he's sprayed with a certain chemical, that Wildmutt isn't able to use his super hearing and smell if his sensors are clogged, and that Stinkfly can't fly if his wings are wet. It's a way to disable a major advantage, and that makes it a weakness. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gorank4 (talk • contribs) 15:32, 7 May 2007 (UTC).

No. Those are chemical weaknesses. Ghostfreak has a certain reaction to chemicals (much like Heatblast to water), Wildmutt's lack of smell is attributed to a disease, and Stinkfly's inability to fly is basic physics. In the case of Benwolf, something mechanical is being attached, therefore not a true, natural weakness. Same with tying your arms. It is not a natural weakness. 68.251.180.218 22:27, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

What he said. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 22:42, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

In "Under Wraps", for a second or two we see through XLR8s eyes............everything is green and blue! Should we include that he, like Benwolf, is colour blind?

We are seeing through XLR8's face-plate visor. It's green tinted. Angel the Techrat 21:23, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

BenViktor as undead

Could some one please explain to me why this form is on the list of fictional Undead? I don't remember Viktor ever being stated as Undead.

Ghostfreak i thinkAnubiz 00:45, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't see Ghostreak or Benvicktor labeled as undead anywhere. Link to the instance you mean. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 00:48, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Category:Fictional_undead

Someone categorized a redirect. Removed. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 00:54, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

It was properally because Benviktor can survive in outer space, showing that he doesn't need to breathe in this form so that ment that he is classed as Undead Wild ste 19:07, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

That's not what "undead" means. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 19:08, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I know that, thats why I said properally. I'm not the one that added it to the list. Heck I didn't even though there was a list of Fictional UndeadWild ste 19:14, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

benviktor is, like the rest of the return" enemies basicly a movie monster, in this case it's frankenstine's monster. frankenstine's monster was made from a bunch of corpses, therefore he was considered undead, therefor benvicktor was called undead. but benvicktor was only based on the monster, he himself is not undead nor is gostfreak (who is only similar to a ghost) nor benmummy. sorry about italics, messed somthing up and now i can't figure it out.

That's only in the movies. Since it is never stated that Benvicktor is a bunch of corpses put toghether, you cannot put it in, even though Benvictor parodies Frankenstein's monster. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.38.35.215 (talk) 20:31, 1 May 2007 (UTC).

Correct. Nothing in the show implies that Vicktor is composed of the same grotesque material as Frankenstein's monster. Actually, there is more evidence to support that he is a robotic construct - his increased intelligence and reflexes, his needlessness for an atmosphere, his extreme durability to the extent that he can survive in a vacuum, his mastery over electricity and magnetism, and most notably, his ability to wire himself into a machine. Fictional Robots seems more likely than Fictional Undead at this point (though it has not been explicitly stated that he is robotic, so it's best not to categorize him there either). You Can't See Me! 03:33, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

At the very least, he can't be entirely robotic, or else he would not likely have DNA to add to the Omnitrix. He has to be in some part biological (perhaps thus accounting for the differences in Vicktor and Benvicktor, such as the larger eye). Still all speculation, of course... --DarkfireTaimatsu 03:57, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

The show's pretty liberal with that. Benvicktor comes complete with mechanical parts, as does XLR8. Upgrade is pure machine. Heatblast... really, I don't have to type any more than that. Diamondhead is silicon-based. "DNA" is a pretty liberal term here. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 04:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

My thought is that since deoxyribonucleic acid is found in all living things (once again, it may only imply to Earth creatures), that would mean that anything that can preform all living processes (in which case, would mean that even Galanic Mechomorphs, Pyronites, and Petrosapiens all can reproduce, possibly asexually) has DNA. So apparently SOME part of each alien has DNA. 68.251.177.195 18:33, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Why delete the good ?

Why are people deleting good stuff such as advantages and disadvantages and the pictures of the future aliens e.t.c ? P.S why don't they name benmummy underwraps?

Because "Underwraps" is the name of an episode, and a stupid name for a creature. As for the first thing, no one has deleted anything. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 03:09, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Benmummy isn't that much better. But yeah, the credits list the mummy alien to be named 'Benmummy'. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Magugag (talk • contribs) 03:14, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

It is either they are deleting or the computer is restricting. Somebody deleted the future alien pictures. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.204.25.6 (talk)

Oh and somebody deleted a previous topic that was just here somewhere which I found kind of useful. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.204.25.6 (talk)

Your chat thread was deleted because you refused to listen and the future aliens were deleted because image galleries aren't allowed in most cases. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 03:30, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't mine it was some other guy on the net —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.204.25.6 (talk)

Why aren't image galleries allowed in most cases please answer.

Why has all the strengths and weaknesses been removed from every allien here? That doesn't make much sense. Wild ste 12:12, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

They're there, just not in bullet-point format. You actually have to read a complete sentence now. So troublesome... 67.38.36.42 23:12, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Ghostfreak 2.0

I added a Ghostfreak 2.0 article to the Omnitrix page. If you need to contact me about this, Leave it either on this talk page or my User Page. Benmummy 23:59, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Ghostfreek is stil ghostfreek.Anubiz 00:31, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Its different then the orginal Ghostfreak though. It has different weaknesses etc so it should really get a different artical under New Alliens. Plus, its kinda like spoilers for people who haven't seen Ben 10 and don't know what happens. Wild ste 12:10, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

No, it's the same character regardless of what form it takes. -Sukecchi 12:16, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Hes is still Ghostfreek, it's not like an Eevee becoming a Vaporeon or somthing.Anubiz 17:11, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Would you folks find it acceptable if I separated the advantages into two different sections in the same chunk for Ghostfreak and his skinless form? I think it would just overall make it look more organized. Magugag 03:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

That's unnecessary. Only two things are affected. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 03:19, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Agian he is the same thing only difernt, it's like saying that Gwen the grandpa are completely different characters when there were in the hazmat suits.Anubiz 15:04, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Look, just put down if you think Ghosfreak 2.0 should exist. Just say Yes, I think the Ghostfreak 2.0 article should exist. Or No, I do think the Ghostfreak 2.0 article should exist. Just make it simple! PLEASE! Benmummy 20:36, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

No I dn't think there should be a Ghostfreak 2.0 article.Anubiz 20:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Until we see Ghostfreak reappear in season 4, we're not adding another profile for another version of him. --Piemanmoo 20:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

He is dumb so that makes him Anubis, so who am I?Anubiz 20:57, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

We make a profile for the Freaky Phantom after he appeares in the last season. OK? Right down Just say Yes, I think the Ghostfreak 2.0 article should exist after an appearence or No, I do think the Ghostfreak 2.0 article should exist, even after an appearence. Benmummy 21:01, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

We're not making a poll. There is no "Ghostfreak 2.0", because you invented that term. You do not get to coin terms on Wikipedia. There will never be a second Ghostfreak section, because there is only one Ghostfreak. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 21:07, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I coined the term in my Ghostfreak Re-examination post! Heh. Either way, I believe that Someguy0830 is right, one is sufficient. After all, his protected and unprotected advantages are now clearly stated as such, so there should be no problem with confusion. Actually, as long as we're on the subject of skinless Ghostfreak, we know that in skin form he was protected from the rays of the sun. But does this mean that he was also left outside the influence of darkness? Is Ghostfreak's skinless version the only one of the two that gets more powerful in darkness? Magugag 02:31, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

How do we get it thro your head Anubis, Ghostfreak is still the same thing it's like saying that black people are different species than white people.Anubiz 21:28, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

No, there shouldn't be any second profile. There shouldn't be any extra advantages or weakness because of this form, and that is because Ben has yet to use this form, therefore we cannot assume. Assuming in Wikipedia leads to... bad stuff. XD —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.38.38.72 (talk) 20:19, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

We can't say this is a different ghostfreak, we CAN say that he is now bad with light and that he now has claws and tenticles and there needs to be some way to explain the moving eyeball thing now that the track is gone

Still, everything would be speculation, until 'Ghostfreak 2.0' is used. Therefore it can't be put in the article. 67.38.40.46 00:30, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

why dont we note that the abilities he has can only be used with the second skin?? it semms reasonable to me, and is more organized. - Kai hyuuga 17:16, 4 May 2007 (UTC)hyuuga-sama

Because Ben has not used the form yet. Savvy?

Phantom Freak should be light immune because of the omnitrix photosensitivety protection. Even if he is skinless. And should his tentacles and blue skin be greenish now? Someone help answere these questions.

Phantom Freak? Since when has THAT been said? That was the only part readable. Mind using commas and independent clauses? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.249.101.159 (talk) 20:26, 6 May 2007 (UTC).

Upchuck = Yoshi

It seems quite obvious to me that upchuck has at least some influence by Yoshi, from Mario. Both are green and lizard like, both eat things with their tongues, and both gain the ability to spit the object (or sometimes other powers, as shown by Ben's use of a lazer and the fact some shells allow Yoshi to use fireballs). Shouldn't this be mentioned, if not as an influence, then as a very similar character.

• points to other articles with similar mentions...Ben 10 is analagized to Dial H for Hero, and the article for Bouncing Boy points out Canonbolt is based on him. I've seen other non-Ben 10 references to others, but can't find them at the moment.* —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.91.155.164 (talk) 20:39, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

No, it shouldn't be mention because it does not affect a character. Simple as that. 69.212.223.100 21:54, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

No Anubiz 21:59, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

No. It is pure speculation. 'Sides, they're not both reptilian. Upchuck is clearly a green woodchuck, hence the name. I don't know about the Bouncing Boy article, but it really shouldn't say that Canonbolt was based on him. Perhaps it could point out a similarity, but to outright state that Cannonbolt is an immitation is pure speculation. Ben 10 is noted to have a similar concept to Dial H for Hero; it is not stated that Ben 10 is based on Dial H. You Can't See Me! 22:38, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Dhimonhead = The Thing Fourarms = Machamp Heatblast = Humantorch Graymater = Tree Frog I heard it all befoure and it is still uninstrising. Anubiz 21:39, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

It's just a bad half-baked theory Chaoshi 22:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

The point was supposed to be I could do this for the entire Omnitrix it's still doesn't make it true. Anubiz 22:37, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Upchuck's weakness?

Around the end of "Visitor", when Upchuck eats the main droid, his stomach grows so big that he can't walk. Should this be considered a weakness? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gorank4 (talk • contribs) 16:41, 28 April 2007 (UTC).

No, because it was the final piece and he simply chose not to spit it up. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 19:07, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

But that means he has to spit everything he eats up, even when there is no danger. Also, would having to eat in order to spit count as a weakness? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.94.148.104 (talk) 16:23, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

No, because we don't know whether or not that actually happens. He might be able to spit exploding loogies, just in smaller sizes. Besides, it's pointless to have a disadvantages do to NOT being able to do something. Otherwise, all aliens except XLR8 would have the disadvantage of not being able to go 500 mph. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.251.178.201 (talk) 21:58, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

isnt it too soon to state the danger of changing back from upchuck, since the things he eats doesnt seem to change with him. i personally thought the burp with the bolts and metal coming out was purely for comedic effect.... and since its highly unlikely ben 10 will end on "and so upchuck changed back, and ben died from having too many cars in his stomach" so basically, since we wont ever get a hard and fast "changing back from upchuck killed ben episode" shouldn't it just have been taken as a one off, for a laugh occurrence. yes i know this is speculation but there has to be some degree of common sence to wikipedia or we wouldn't be able to assume things......... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.209.42.81 (talk) 15:15, 2 May 2007 (UTC).

Its a cartoon at the end of the day about a kid with an allien device on his arm. You shouldn't really try to force logic into it. The bolt at the end was, as you said, for comic releif and is unlikely to be the weakness for Upchuck. Wild ste 17:37, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

The old rant "It's a cartoon, it doesn't have logic" isn't really true. Everything has a pattern. This pattern serves as logic. Therefore, everything is logical. So, the trick is to go by Ben 10's logic. That logic (as far as we can tell) is that everything is normal on a present-day Earth, but with the added idea that aliens exist, and have made contact multiple times. As well as magic is real. Therefore, all Earth logic can be applied, unless it deals with an alien, then you must abide by Ben 10's logic, which is not fully clear (and never will be). In short, if there's no aliens involved (such as falling down to earth from a space station in outer space) then it's normal (ending in getting killed), human logic. If an alien is involved (such as Cannonbolt protecting the falling person from the atomosphere) then human logic does not apply (end result being the human and Cannonbolt survives). 68.251.177.195 18:16, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Why aren't image galleries allowed in most cases please answer

Why aren't image galleries allowed in most cases please answer. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.236.118.100 (talk) 23:08, 3 May 2007 (UTC).

The images in question are non-free images. As such, they need to meet ten specific criteria. Placing the three images on this article would fail three points -

• Criteria #3 - Minimal Use: There are already 19 nonfree images on Omnitrix's article.
• Criteria #4 - Resolution/Fidelity
• Criteria #5 - Significance - The three images only pertain to a single sentence of text. They do not illustrate a point, and as such are not significant. You Can't See Me! 23:52, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Upchuck flying??

I saw in one scene upchuck was airborne, he spit, then went to a different side and spit, he was airborne the whole time! and wasnt falling! should this count? - Hyuuga-sama 01:19, 7 May 2007 (UTC)hyuuga-sama , also, hould it be noted that ben 10 is similiar to dial H for hero?

I just checked the Youtube link that I posted above. After Upchuck spits the first time, he is obscured by the resulting smoke, and there is a crate right beside him. My guess is that he jumped off of the crate while veiled by the smokescreen, and he did not fall for dramatic effect. You Can't See Me! 01:44, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, thanks, that makes so much more now.(no sarcasm. no really.) Now what about the Dial H for Hero question? - Hyuuga-sama 20:29, 9 May 2007 (UTC)hyuuga-sama

Its already is- RREDD13 23:45, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Image quality

A bunch of the alien images are rather high-res. Any chance we can replace them with lower resolution images, per WP:F? You Can't See Me! 04:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

They can just be halved in Paint and reuploaded. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 04:36, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Cats on redirects

Someguy0830 and I have been discussing this, and I feel it only fair to include all your opinions on it. The debate is: Do we add categories to the alien form redirects?

I say Keep them, because they help organize the fictional characters by powers and abilities. It used to be that all of the applicable categories were listed on the omnitrix page, which was horribly cluttered. Take a look at this and tell me if all of those categories belong there at the bottom? If I'm on the page for Toph and I click the cat of fictional blind characters, I want to see a bunch of other ficitonal blind characters. When I see "omnitrix" listed in that category, it doesnt make sense. The omnitrix is not a blind character, Wildmutt is. The omnitrix is not a fictional fish, Ripjaws is. See what I'm getting at now? I can't put [[Category:Fictional characters who can move at superhuman speeds|XLR8]] at the bottom of the omnitrix page, because that just put "omnitrix" under the letter "X" and accomplish nothing. Too bad XLR8 isn't important enough to have his own article, then there would be no problem. And here comes the solution: make a redirect page and put the catagories on there. Everyone is happy.

Let's just keep this debate open for 5 days to see how everyone feels on it, and then we'll decide, okay?--Piemanmoo 22:22, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Aren't the power and ability categories supposed to be listified now anyway, making this a complete non-issue?

Regardless, the use of those categories is intended to be for cases where the category reflects a primary/trademark ability, with the repeated consensus on CfD being that individual categorization of abilities that are just a sub-part of a larger skill is a Bad Thing. The primary ability here is shapeshifting, which happens to not be a category at all but rather a list, List of shapeshifters. Put a see also link to there and be done with it. --tjstrf talk 08:12, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Added. Also note that this user has been told by an admin not to add categories to redirects. Regardless of what is said here, redirects are not supposed to be categorized except in redirect-specific categories. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 09:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Ah, that's what I thought the policy was, but I wasn't sure if that strictly applied due to the existence of sectional redirects now. (I don't think I've ever actually read WP:REDIRECT before, oddly enough.) I suppose that pretty well settles it then, doubly since this isn't actually a list of characters so the categorization would be somewhat misleading to begin with. --tjstrf talk 21:42, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I think it's a waste of time to put all the "Fiction characters that ___" on there. This article is labeled as Omnitrix. It is about the Omnitrix, and it alone. The forms are a part of the Omnitrix, so they are included. But that does not make them the main focus of the article. All catagories should be about the Omnitrix, as that is what this article is about. 67.38.35.229 19:18, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

That's true, but this article is not just the omnitrix. It's more like a list of aleins ben can transform into with the omnitrix. So yeah its kind of a character page. And to be honest, I knida agree with that one guy that said the omnitrix isnt a fish ripjaws is. I rememebr seeing the omnitrix listed before under fictional lizards or something like that before, so I think I understand what he/she means.--66.237.11.10 00:08, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Hence why the guideline against categorizing things that are just the effect of another ability. For instance, if Ben had his own page, which would make more sense to do? Putting him in fictional insects, fictional sharks, fictional undead, fictional guys with lots of arms, fictional regenerators, fictional amorphous beings, fictional people who control fire and ice and electricity and darkness and earth and acid and metal and magnetism and cotton candy and turn intangible and invisible and into rock and have superhuman strength and speed and hearing and green eyes and nightvision and duplicate themselves and launch giant energy blasts from their nostrils and are superorganisms and and and and and... or just put him in fictional shapeshifters (and maybe who can manipulate superpowers) since that's what all those other abilities are the result of?

Basically there's no point of categorizing him (or the omnitrix) by everything he's ever done, since his powers are hypothetically limited only by the sum total of powers that exist in his universe. As the name says, it's the omnitrix. It does EVERYTHING.

Cases like this are a prime example of exactly why most of the superhuman categories were deleted: people misused them to categorize some of our more flexible superhuman characters by anything and everything. --tjstrf talk 00:31, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Well then let's just save us all time and put Ben Tennyson, Superman, Sherlock Holmes, Scrooge McDuck, Homer Simpson, Uncle Sam, Freddy Kreuger, Buzz Lightyear, Pinocchio, Pickachu, Darth Vader, ect all under just the category of Fictional characters only, since that's what they all are in the end? --72.129.27.249 01:12, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

That is a logical flaw. Yes, they are all fictional characters. So what? The debate with fictional superpower categories is this:

• The Human Torch emits a lot of heat, which is infrared radiation. Does that mean that the Human Torch belongs in Category:Fictional characters with the ability to manipulate radiation?
• Cyborg has the ability to repair himself when damaged. Does that qualify for Category:Fictional characters with the ability to regenerate?
• All of the Naruto ninjas are super-fast and super-strong by human standards, but that is just normality in their world. Should they all be placed under Category:Fictional characters with superhuman strength and Category:Fictional characters with superhuman speed?

The same now applies to the Omnitrix aliens: They do not exist separately from the Omnitrix. Thus Heatblast is not a fictional character who can manipulate fire, because he is not a separate entity from Ben. Fourarms is not a fictional character with superhuman strength because he is not a separate entity from Ben. So forth and so on. Ben is all of the Omnitrix aliens, thus he should have the categories, not the Omnitrix aliens. However, Ben can potentially do anything with the Omnitrix on his wrist. So, what do you categorize him under? Everything? You Can't See Me! 04:38, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

To further confuse matters, we have cases where the writers come up with "clever" explanations for their powers that land their guy in even more useless categories. Poor Iceman, for instance, who manipulates ice by manipulating heat, and thus technically belongs in the category normally reserved for pyrokinetics. Since Ben is a shapeshifter with a side of power assimilation, and everything else he does is just an application of those skills and not a defining trait, he should just be listed on those pages with an appropriate description to mark how vast his abilities are. --tjstrf talk 04:51, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Somebody, just look at this and tell me honestly that this makes wikipedia a bad place. Keep in mind I've never touched this article, either. Also, I highly reccomend we all read WP:SENSE and remember that this is just an online encyclopedia that we're all trying to make more effective. --Piemanmoo 08:39, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Instead of complaining, fix it. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 08:50, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey, dont forget this one, or this one, and let's not forget this this one over here. In fact, take a look at some of the people who don't care. In fact, certain users in this debate dont seem to even want to change them See, you're never going to be able to delete all of them because a huge percent of all categories are on redirects, and hardly anyone has a problem with it except for a small percentage of people like you. This is especialy apparent in Underpopulated Categories which need a lot more entries. --Piemanmoo 22:35, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Don't get all bitchy because two admins shot you down. They don't belong in those categories. Stop wasting your time finding places where people have fucked up in an attempt to prove your point. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 22:43, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Piemanmoo: Congratulations, you've proven that WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. Your point? --tjstrf talk 22:45, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

As for my apparent apathy over Gwen's categories, I wasn't aware of the WP:REDIRECT policies until Someguy posted the link near the begining of the debate. For future reference, my ignorance of the policy should not be mistaken for defiance of it. You Can't See Me! 23:00, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

As long as you pick up on the fact, there's not much harm in it. Oh, and one thing I forgot to cover in Pieman's argument: categorizing redirects to fill underpopulated categories is beyond wrong. Such a suggestion is ridiculous. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:06, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

But what do the rules say, specificaly? Before claiming to be following them, I'd suggest getting a clearer understanding of what they say and why they're there in the first place. "Redirects should not normally contain categories that would fit on the target page because it can result in duplicate listings of the same page within a category. Relevant categories should be moved to the main page where the redirect is pointing." Gwen is a magic user, but not all Ben 10 characters are. When we look through the category of magic users, should we see the link to the list of charcaters there? I don't mind if you disagree with this, I'm just asking if someone understands what I'm trying to explain here. Let's not forget to WP:AGF. I'm trying to better wikipedia, you're trying to better wikipedia, and we've just going about it different ways. So let's take the knives from each other's throats and look at this criticaly. I'm just trying to understand how exactly decategoization helps organize categories that aren't already bloated.--Piemanmoo 01:20, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Then read your archive. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 01:23, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Archive/Article length

Just to give a heads up: I've archived evey converstion before April 28 that does not seem to require a responce. Sorry for any inconvenience or mistake. Even so, the Omnitrix page is still very long. --PostScript (info/talk/contribs) 21:56, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

It is long indeed. But how do we fix this? Let's see... There seems to be a lot of space invested in describing the alien species and their homeworlds. That is of little relevance to the Omnitrix itself. Furthermore, the vast majority of pros and cons repeat information from the general section of each alien's table.

This will be met with huge opposition, but perhaps a total reconstruction of the aliens' sections is the best solution. I'll start a draft tomorrow, and we'll see if it can make standard. You Can't See Me! 02:01, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Hehehe!! Sorry, I meant the Omnitrix's talk page was long, but come to think of it, I also agree the Omnitrix's article page is long too! Well wadda you know? Typos can do you good!! --PostScript (info/talk/contribs) 11:54, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Problem is, the Omnitrix description only makes up the initial sections. The rest is alien description. Even split, it'd still be long. — Someguy0830 (T | C)

Typos rock. Pure and simple. You can cuss without knowing it! XD Anyways, splitting the Alien Descriptions from Omnitrix would make the Omnitrix a stub, and the Alien Descriptions still extremely long. And there is NO WAY we're created seperate articles for the aliens. 68.251.105.187 00:49, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

What we could do is shorten the Alien section to a very short discription, e.g., Diamondhead is an alien made of diamond, and is nearly indistructable. Include its weaknesses and stregnths. Then we create another page with the full alien list on it, mabey even divide it between the first 10 and new aliens/future aliens. What do you think? --PostScript (info/talk/contribs) 17:33, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

May I add that the section title is totally irrevalant. Shame on me. And, while we're at it, will someone explain what the banner asking us to rewrite the article out of in-universe style mean? --PostScript (info/talk/contribs) 17:38, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

No need to get spatty about it. Try clicking the convenient writing about fiction link in said banner. It'll give you as good an answer as anyone's going to try to explain. Angel the Techrat 20:17, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

<sheepisly> Whooops... didn't see the link... sorry.... --PostScript (info/talk/contribs) 01:20, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Erm, I haven't been following this discussion, but I have a draft for the Omnitrix page ready. It turns out that by cutting the tables and integrating pros and cons, article size fell by ~12kb from where it started, even with mass sourcing. All of the images are there (including one for the "Future alien forms" section); they're just hidden. You Can't See Me! 20:53, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Post Edit: Ah, I was confused for a moment there. By "There seems to be a lot of space invested in describing the alien species and their homeworlds. That is of little relevance to the Omnitrix itself," I was referring to "Diamondhead is a Petrosapien from..." and so forth. I didn't mean to split the alien and description sections. Sorry for being unclear. You Can't See Me! 20:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Seems a decent format. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 21:14, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Should I implement it and see how it fares? You Can't See Me! 22:44, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Go ahead. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 22:51, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Pretty simple. Just dropping the backround drops 12kb? Technology these days... 68.251.96.19 23:23, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

In my oppenion the way it looks now may not take up as much space but it looks cluttered and less organized than before. I'd like to reiterrate what Postscript, make a seprate page for the omnitrix aliens. The page split worked well with the secondery characters page into a seprate villains page. Making sepprate pages per aliens might also be a good idea, it might make alot of new pages and be more work but then we could put refrences and other stuff there's not enough room here. Thats just what I think. Superx 00:42, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

As stated above, splitting the article would end with one stub and one page that is still ridiculously long. Besides, it is less cluttered now; it no longer has reiterated, non-integrated Advantage/Disadvantage bullets. The text that is currently there is nearly the exact same thing as was before, except it is reworded so that the focus is on the Omnitrix alien and not the species for the most part. There is still a general structure to each of the individual aliens. You Can't See Me! 02:45, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I forgot to mention why it looked cluttered, there's really no boundry between the aliens like there was before. I still think that their would be something to be gain from another page but this time I'd like to make the suggestion of keeping this page the same and make one like List of Alien Species in Ben 10, so we can put that information about homeworlds and such and it wouldn't just be the Omnitrix aliens it would be non-omnitrix aliens like Vilgax's species and like that. I think that information is still importent as this is an encyclopedia and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't an encyclopedia supposed to give as much information on a subject as possable. What I'm saying is yes this way is better for this page but we're still leaving out information that should be on wikipedia. For exsample on this page it might not be needed to report on the history given for Diamondhead's race on this page but its still part of the Ben 10 timeline and a valid point. Doing this would also fix the reference problem going on above because those could be put on a species page. Thats just a suggestion, if you want to use it please tell what you think. Superx 11:23, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Are alien species information really that crucial to the series, though? Thus far, aliens have only been referred to by scientific names as passing notes. Particular species behavior has only been critical during the Villain-of-the-week episode Permanent Retirement, in regards to why the Limax were abducting old people. Well, I mean, there's also the whole thing about Ectonurites and their DNA, but that's mentioned here already. Remember, even though Wikipedia is not paper, it also is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Some balance has to come about. You Can't See Me! 22:56, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

My two cents: (sorry if I get a bit argumentive here, but arguments are my nature) The point we draw between too much and too litle is, in my opinion, the basic power/function/use/ability of an alien, and his/her pros and cons. Thats it. Basic.
Alien history (scientific name, planet, bio, classification, ad-lib) is not very relevent to the main article, but we could create a new article containing all the side details, as mentioned above. However, as also pointed out above, that article would be a stub. We could technically try to expand that article to the maximum possible, but that will require extensive research. Or we could just remove alien history all together.
I'm open to other two cents. --PostScript (info/talk/contribs) 01:20, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

The more I look at this idea, the more appealing it looks. Perhaps there is a way to do this without making it stubby. In fact, I think Bandai even released alien info of some non-Omnitrix aliens, such as Vilgax and Technorg/Volcanus. Plus, there are other aliens referred to by species in the show (Limax), and I'm sure that aliens that have appeared in swarms would fit on the page regardless of whether or not their species information has been given (Bermuda Triangle Aliens). Then again, sourcing would be a pain, and a little voice in the back of my mind is labeling it as cruft as I type. Let's get other opinions on the matter. You Can't See Me! 05:26, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I think separate articles are a great idea! Go for it! -Ben 10 8:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

But that would make it kind of like the List of characters in Ben 10. --PostScript (info/talk/contribs) 10:08, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

You guys do know that the Omnitrix artical is quite short in comparison to other articals on here. Pretty much all of the information is relvalent and it doesn't take that long to read through it all. I say leave it as it is (and put back all the strengths and weaknesses).Wild ste 12:15, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Sure, it's short by comparison to some articles. That doesn't detract from the fact that it's already twice the recommended length and that increasing it further puts us at risk if somebody with an old laptop attempts to edit the whole page at once. You Can't See Me! 12:27, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I see some people agree and I've seen far shorter articals than one that the alien species would be put in. In addition to the information given in the bios that come with the toys we have the info from the show. Like we have some information on how some of the aliens grow over a 20 year period from Ben 10,000. The artical would likey include stuff like powers, weakness, history, members of the species shown in the series, characteristics and anything that doesn't fit in the others. Could someone make a draft of that of an "List of Alien Species in Ben 10" so we can see what it looks like? I'd do it but I don't no anything other than what was in the show and I'm not the best at making pages. Superx 11:14, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Youtube Movie

Hey I'm want to ask a question about the Ben 10 Movies. A guy on the Youtube site had a Ben 10 movie opening & it actually looked like it was the opening. And he said that the movie was about 10 of ben's worst villians returning for revenge. Plus Ben discovers a new power over the omnitrix. What I'm asking is why didn't anyone put this in the movie article? User:phantasmo_375

Because this isn't the movie article. Try asking on Talk:Ben 10. You Can't See Me! 22:46, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry. But First You should REALLY see the clip type in www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Mb0ftaI-w User:phantasmo_375

One, the person who wrote the intro lacks grammar skills. Two, the intro is the intro to Superman the Movie. Three, that was only 1/4 of the clip and I already proved it to be nonsense. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 01:52, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. It's just clips, some fancy type, and audio from a real movie. Anyone can see it's a fan thing. Go do something productive phantasmo. 83.71.73.36 18:42, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok so I made a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes. You don't have to scream in my face.User:phantasmo_375

OK, come on, people. Let's cut phantasmo a little slack, shall we? He's only human. -Ben 10 17:21, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Call me crazy, or maybe it's just because I'm probably older than him, but I expect people to take a little bit of time to research what they think is official, instead of blindly accepting it as truth. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 22:45, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Ideally, yes. But people do make mistakes. Besides, people believe in the so-called human chain of evolution, and careful study has completely blown that to bits. -Ben 10 18:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok I'm gonna ask you Someguy0830, how old are you, & we'll see if you are. User:phantasmo_375

23. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 00:00, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok, but only by 10 years. User:phantasmo_375

Last time I checked, but 10 years is 1/8 of the average American's lifespan. My math may be a leetle off, but 1/8 is a pretty good chunk o' life. 67.38.36.42 23:19, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

What are you talking about? I just said he's 10 years older than I am. User:phantasmo_375

Alright guys, he made a mistake. Can we leave it at that before we get into an arguement.Wild ste 07:43, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I Agree. Good save Wild ste. User:phantasmo_375

Blue

What hapond to the backgrounds for the heros? Anubiz 14:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Cutting them and integrating pros and cons removed ~12kb from the article. That's significantly more efficient and has minimal penalty. You Can't See Me! 18:46, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay sorry I didn't read the article for a while. Anubiz 18:49, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

An interesting discovery...

I was rewatching Benwolf, when something suddenly hit me. Why is Ben's shirt stretching to fit his different Benwolf 'stages', when the transformation is not complete? My guess is that it is the shirt ITSELF has amazing stretching properties. Could this possibly explain how the clothing style stays consistent for each alien? If so, this means it is NOT the Omnitrix that has the ability to copy clothing styles. Rather, it is just the clothes changing form on their own. Therefore, the sentence telling that the Omnitrix copies clothes should be removed.

Also, I've noticed that Benwolf is extremely flexible and agile. Shouldn't that be added? Comments, anyone? 67.38.37.192 19:17, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

The super-stretching shirt isn't really consistent with anything other than Benwolf stages. It wouldn't explain how it turns into a jumpsuit for Grey Matter and Diamondhead, how it imprints its pattern onto Cannonbolt and XLR8, what happens to the tears from Fourarms' and Diamondhead's transformation sequences, what happens to it in general on clothes-free aliens, the shirts that formed both times he was in swim trunks, Gwen's shirt in Gwen 10 and so forth. In fact, the shirt disappears and reappears when he goes into Benwolf's actual form.

The agility thing used to be there, but it apparently got lost in the reformation of the page; I added that back just now. When was Benwolf shown to be flexible? You Can't See Me! 00:40, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Ah, true. I hadn't thought about the swimsuit and Gwen 10. And the flexibility is shown when Ben scratches his face with his foot, plus a bunch of other poses that portray his animal tendencies. Normally it'd go under the paragraph showing his 'weaknesses' within the 'animal instincts', but physics and health says different. Being more flexible means reduced damage. 67.38.37.192 19:17, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I think the Omnitrix copies clothing, however I did notice, when Ben went hero in "Galactic Enforcer" he was wearing an extremely loose costume and in the Season two finale, he had a raincoat. Since the clothing was not copied, I'd say it only copies tight clothing.

xlr8 pluss future aliens

because the episode pages were removed i have nowhere else to put this. how come in the unnaturals when xlr8 was moving how come time looked like it was standing still? ive never seen him do that any other time, is it a new ability? if it is how come ben 1000 xlr8 cant do it?(i said that because in the unnaturals they dont even see his trail like blur but they do in ben1000)also why do we call the spitting alien spitter because in the episode when young ben suggests that name for him old ben just says he doesnt name them any more so that name is never confirmed.

Perhaps he is able to vary his speed. Like how you can walk and run. It's alluded to on some of the official data for XLR8's species (I forget whether it's the toys or the website, though).

We call him Spitter because that's the name that was given in the credits for that episode. --DarkfireTaimatsu 18:12, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

The whole "time stading still" thing was just the first time we've seen things from XLR8's perspective. That is, he was moving so fast that relative to him, everything else is nearly at a standstill. Think clockstoppers. On a seperate note, how come Spitter was credited when he didn't have any spoken lines? Or perhaps he did, and I just can't remember. --Piemanmoo 00:35, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe grunts or other sound effects. Those get credit too, sometimes. --DarkfireTaimatsu 03:34, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

XLR8 was moving in the mythical 'speed zone', where time stands still because he is going the speed of light. As Einstein put it, the faster you go, the slower things are around you. But in THAT particular episode, they messed it up. Only expirienced Kinecelerans can enter the speed zone, and one,two, or three months with XLR8 isn't exactly 'expirienced'. Also, XLR8 was still caught on tape, which wouldn't have happened if he was going the speed of light. As for Spitter, he DID say a line. It was he who said 'I don't name them anymore.' Thus, he was in the credits under that name. Javo 718 16:27, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I thought it was Cannonbolt that said "I don't name them anymore"? I'm pretty sure all Spitter did was, well spit.Wild ste 15:46, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Watch again. Trust me. Javo 718 14:27, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

personaly i think what DarkfireTaimatsu said made most sense not saying that the rest of you dont have good thieries (please tell me how to spell that!)81.108.233.59 09:49, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

also spitter DIDN'T say anything, it WAS cannonbolt who said i dont name them81.108.233.59 09:49, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I can comfirm that. As for XLR8, A)Ben needed to screw with the Squires B)Gwen needed to find out C)IT'S A CARTOON!!!

To put it all into four words: It's a plot hole Javo 718 16:04, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikia

Hi, i've made a ben 10 wikia @ http://ben10.wikia.com. Please could you link to there as it's going to have much more stuff on! --Stinkfly 16:41, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

When it does, then we link. It's just linkspam otherwise. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 19:22, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

It is open! We've done all sorts to make it ok! It's still work in progress, but it's going to contain fresh data (someone copied stuff from here, for XLR8's page last night, rolled back) --Stinkfly 17:31, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I've got a question for this? I just went on it and saw the "Did You Know" section, and I don't agree with the way that one was worded. Saying that it is weird to have a female actor voicing a male character conisdering it is been done hundreds of times before since girls can voice boys better before they hit puperity. Tara Strong has done loads of work voicing boys in cartoons and she isn't the only one.Wild ste 15:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, just i had to think of something, because otherwise, they would be nothing... just it's planned to be better. --Stinkfly 15:03, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Seperate Pages

They've put a notice to make the page short. I suggest thatwe give each alien its on page. Just put a short summary adn a link to it's page were we would put the total information. Then we could expand the information of the aliens, we could add things like how Ben uses there powers diffrently, like Four Arms can clap his hand to makea sonic boom.--Addude 15:11, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Eh, no. There's really no good way to do this. There's not enough encyclopedic information to give each alien its own article. The best thing to do is to wait out the fourth season for new alien forms and split the page between original and new alien forms. Otherwise, we'll just have to shorten the alien sections, an unfavorable solution. You Can't See Me! 06:11, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Alien Silhouettes

Some one posted the silhouettes on the watch for Fourarms and Diamondhead. Should we keep them? Chaoshi 20:32, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Well even though they've been removed, no. They would take up more space that we can't spare and we don't really need them. We have the photo of the allien, why do we need its Omnitrix symbol?Wild ste 15:24, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. I was just seeing what everyone else thought. Chaoshi 19:22, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

It's a small thing, but I happen to like the silhouettes. You hardly get a chance to look at them by watching the show. One could tape and pause to study them, but it's not that interesting. However, if the silhouettes were all nicely arranged in an article like this one, I'd be happy to see each silhouette associated with each alien. Maybe they could be small so as not to take up much space. -- Lilwik 22:19, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Why show the Silhouette if we have an image of the real thing? It's not necessary. -Sukecchi 22:21, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

But is it being necessary relevant? It is interesting; that's far more important. Plus, this article is supposed to be about the omnitrix, and the silhouette is how the omnitrix identifies each alien. -- Lilwik 23:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

While this is true, you need to think about the articles appearance. If each Alien has it's silhouette; how would that make the article look? Cluttered. -Sukecchi 00:06, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Not wholly. Something like that can be done neatly. *Silhoette* *info* *photo*

The one who keeps adding them is a recurring sockpuppeteer and has been banned. The article is probably overdoing it as is. Pushing it isn't a good idea. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 07:42, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

We're in the middle of debating whether to shorten the article, and you want to make it BIGGER? Javo 718 01:39, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Exacilty, the artical is too big as it is. As I've already said, we just can't add anymore to it at the present moment. Once the new series starts and new alien forms have been released, then we can seperate it into the orginal 10 forms and the new ones. Maybe then we can have the silhouettes, but for the moment, we really can't have them.Wild ste 18:04, 11 July 2007 (UTC)