Talk:List of Nintendo 64 games/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

New and Improved hopefully

Ok the new page is up. I'm not sure if I did it correct, but I made a back up copy of this page a few weeks back and tried to include all updates, but seems like are a lot more <include only> things that weren't there before, well hopefully we'll figure it all out soon. Sorry it took so long, I've been trying to check everything, and it'll probably get changed again soon any way, like the name Japan Pro Wrestling: Tohkon Road Brave Spirits, it took correcting after checking and still it'll probably be renamed again some time, but now it shows what the box says, as well as Tigger's Honey Hunt, It's been a long few weeks, hopefully the new page is simple and easy enough for everyone to understand and find the information they are looking for. I need a good dozen hours sleep or so, hopefully there won't be too much disagreement about what is to be on this list and what might need to be removed. (Floppydog66 21:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC))

Looks pretty good, I'll go through and remove the exact translations later this week. Hopefully some more editors more familiar with the list will help out too; I've asked SeizureDog to help out with the list as well. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 22:06, 3 November 2007 (UTC))

I think I got the spelling of everything as good as we'll get it for a while, but sometimes like The Star Wars Shadows of the Empire, the Romaji is slightly different then the USA meaning, and cases like
New Japan Pro Wrestling: Tōhkon Road Brave Spirits
Shin Nihon Pro Wrestling: Tōkon Honō Michi

I was checking the spelling and I think I pasted the Japanese text into Wikipedia and it brought up the main article about New Japan Pro Wrestling and then I noticed that the lion head logo with New Japan Pro Wrestling was also on the Box art and Cartridge, so that'd technically be the name of it using alphabet characters, and the Kanji where the same words that where above and below it so we should probably not use the Romaji for them, but just the English that appears on it. I'm not sure if the English words appear on part two or not and if they don't it might be better to list that one with the Romaji, but it's all sort of the same and either one will work. I noticed on a few of the games like this one instead of the Japanese using the "ō" as we've been doing, with the "o" having a line above it for the Romaji "Ou" they seem to change it to "oh". I was also thinking that we could add a mini cover art icon to the list but that would probably push us over the 100kb and isn't really needed, but it'd be another use of all the box art images that are on the separate pages. Wikipedia likes when things have more then one use. The box art also helps when checking spellings and deciding which words may or may not come first in the title. I tried to list all the new changes even the one about a week ago when SeizureDog changed Jikkyō Powerful Pro Yakyū Basic-han 2001 to the correct spelling "ban" they'll probably change a bit still but hopefully most of the checking and rechecking has helped work out most of the kinks and if someone is interested they can find the information they want, and complete the stub article about the game. Even sometimes just going to IGN and looking at screen shots enough information can be found to make it into a general article, and list a few good references. As I promised I'll try not to worry to much about what is used and what isn't, if someone thinks there is too much information here, or not enough there they'll probably change it again any way and sooner or later there'll be a majority consensus about which way is best, I'd still like to see some French N64 titles but with all my research even if there are a few it seems the English name would appear over it, and the French somewhere small off to the side or below it. I only have one other question regarding the <include only, > things that seemed to be all over the page they seemed to appear in the middle of a table one instance at the start of a paragraph and all sorts of other places that seemed more random then as a purposefully used Wikipedia tool, I wasn't able to find them on other "List Of" or other pages I went to so none of them appear on this new version of the page. Well that's about it, I hope at least a few people out there will like our new creation, "It's Alive..." (Floppydog66 15:29, 4 November 2007 (UTC))

As far as the box covers go, I believe that would be a violation of fair use. Wikipedia is a bit stricter on images used in lists. I remember when doing the List of Kingdom Hearts media, we couldn't use almost all of the images we had in there. Admittedly, I think it would be a cool idea and make the list more visually appealing and useful, but it wouldn't be allowed on Wikipedia.

Also, it looks like you've gotten all the needed information from the List of Japanese Nintendo 64 games. If you have, I'll go ahead and switch the page to a redirect. I'll wait a day or two before I do in case you don't check back here right away. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 18:56, 7 November 2007 (UTC))

I think both lists still need things such as release dates and what they are compatible with such as Memory Pak, Expansion Pak, and the such, because we'll be eventually making one for the USA games sooner or later, but having it on the other pages seems like a waste of repeating a lot of the game names when it could be easily glanced at here, or on the Japanese page, but for right now we only have the Japanese complete list of release dates, which I still need to add to the other list, and the other information about the Paks they used, and stuff. When adding other things to this page it still might need to be split into two separate pieces, since it already displays a message about its size when saving changes. I've also started a discussion about the Famicom games and been checking them for both Famicom and Disk, the total of officially released games seems to be 1236 not counting demos and stuff, but only the retail store ones. Most of those lists seem to be rather large and not very accurate yet either, but its surprising how few mistakes I've found. Maybe some day we'll get a chance to put all the Japanese Nintendo systems and there games onto one large list sort of like list of Cancelled games, with different page sections for each system, and the regions it was released in, The Europe games seem to be a bit harder then the USA ones to find a release date for, most of the USA games are mentioned in some magazine with their release date. As for this page there are things like Star Wars: Shadows and such that might need to be changed or seen as repeat information, but that's one of the difficulties if we use some, all, or not much of the Japanese titles. It looks pretty good, but there will probably be spelling changes and names being tossed about for along time to come as official spellings and such are found, or someone gets one of the items and finds that it says, or is spelled out in English a different way. I'm used to correcting them every few months, but to others it'll probably be a big pain to try sort through, and if we get a few more people involved they'll probably want the Japanese games removed to their own page anyway, with a little checkmark on the JLN64g page to show the ones that were released outside Japan. (Floppydog66 21:21, 8 November 2007 (UTC))

The List of Japanese Nintendo 64 games has been redirected to List of Nintendo 64 games. I'll archive this and the related above discussion some time this weekend. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 18:41, 9 November 2007 (UTC))

For the record, the 'includeonly' tags that were removed per the text above were used to define a portion of this list to display on the featured content page. With them removed it attempts to transclude the entire list onto that page and gets a bit messy. --CBD 14:32, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Game Articles eventually may be lost if not expanded

It's been nearly 2 years since the effort began to include all listings and info about Nintendo 64 games onto Wikipedia but some of the articles have not been expanded since first being started as Stubs, and there is the growing possibility that those articles may eventually be deleted I've already tried to save the article Mike Piazza's Strike Zone twice from being reverted to the article about the player, with only the following info being listed there;

In 1998, Mike Piazza's Strike Zone was released for the Nintendo 64, system.

Which doesn't even tell which company released it or the date it was released, however the only info on the game's page is only slightly more and only the infobox information was missing from the Mike Piazza player article. The game's page probably will be moved there with a proper link to the Legacy section of the player, but the way it was redirected was nearly the same as when the Japanese list of N64 was requested for deletion, and no effort made to try and preserve the information already available, and its importance scale was changed to 'importance=no' which might happen to other games on this list, game links both here and on other pages continue to be redirected to articles about a anime series and other things that don't even mention the date that the game was released. Sadly I know of very few books and reference points for these games outside or magazines and web pages like IGN.com, but if more reliable references could be found about these games, even just the date and issue these games where released and reviewed in, would help to inform people about them and make them a more permanent part of Wikipedia, this should include both games that are really popular as well as games such as Super Mario 64, if one is of no importance then that only lessons the importance of another item in the same category. (Floppydog66 (talk) 16:01, 5 January 2008 (UTC))

Box Art and Screen Shots for game articles

Finished adding references to Mike Piazza's Strike Zone article and expanding it quite a bit, I feel that the Instruction Booklet of the game should also be considered a Reference, since many times in game articles the story and other info is listed there, none of the instructions text should be used here, or at at maximum a sentence or two that might be hard to explain in any other way. There also is a lot of images from these articles being removed mostly because they seem to have been clipped from some other page and placed on Wikipedia with "Cover Art of game" and that being the only info they leave on the image page. I think this, and the screen shots are two of the things that would help make these game articles better and make them more useful and helpful for Wikipedia, but there are also users using illegal roms and posting the images here, which is not good. For Screen Shots and box art I suggest anyone who has the item take a picture of the cartridge or box and submit it as Cover art, but keep it under 100kb and in JPEG format. For a screen shot I suggest if you wish to add one go to Video Game Museum and, or contribute the game screen shot there before posting it on Wikipedia, and then fill in the game info as below, remembering to put the double { before and after this on the Licensing section of image upload, and to fill in the Article name, and lastly deleting the asterisk;

Non-free use rationale

• |Article=
• |Description=Screen Shot
• |Source=http://www.vgmuseum.com
• |Portion=Full image
• |Low_resolution=low quality image not suitable for pirating or copying of their work.
• |Purpose=show game in progress
• |Replaceability=none other available
• |other_information=Image is used according to their policy;
  

Can I use your images on my website?

Yes, you can use the images, as long as you give credit to the website where you found them.



This will keep Wikipedia free from user uploaded Emulation pics that many people would seem to feel that Wikipedia was supporting Emulation. I feel that if we have screen shots here we should get them from another source and add them here with a reference to where they came from outside of Wikipedia, rather then making your own screen shots using emulation or whatever and them being posted by the Wikipedia users. I think this will help us out as well as Video Game Museum as long as we only use one or two of the images and try to make sure its not reproducing all of their images, so people can still go there to find more images of the game or box art, ect. It will hopefully keep Wikipedia lawyers from getting a headache, and still enable people to see and share information without illegal emulation ROMS being considered something that was used here for and encouraged by Wikipedia. (Floppydog66 (talk) 20:12, 6 January 2008 (UTC))

"L" Category Removed at some point

Just passing through, and noticed the current article lacks a listing for "L". Previous versions possess it too. Just bringing this up.

SpellingGuru (talk) 09:01, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I had commented that one out, not only because there don't seem to be any N64 games with their main title starting with "L", but also because the table for "L" was incomplete and incorrectly set out, and was disrupting the structure of "M" table. As a trade-off, I just re-introduced the section, but not its table (who'd want to see an empty table here?) - Politically Corrupt (talk) 13:09, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Make tables sortable?

As per title: does anyone agree with me that this list would benefit from making its tables sortable, at least by release year, publisher and developer? One drawback I'm considering is that, the way the list is constructed, sorting would only affect one table at a time, i.e. one starting letter. - Politically Corrupt (talk) 10:48, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Does that mean when people view this page they could sort it by the view they are looking at similar to Ebay, Ending soon, lowest price that type of thing? I'm not sure what it looks like, could you post a link to a wikipedia article that has this on it? It sounds pretty good as long as it doesn't have to be changed by every one that edits and that thinks it should be alphabetized or "released by" company list. As I mentioned in the archived or other talks it's nearly impossible to list them by release date since they where released in so many different times and regions, and some USA and Europe dates still aren't known.(Floppydog66 (talk) 14:14, 22 February 2008 (UTC))

As an example, I invite you to take a look at the List of video games by Cryo Interactive I've been putting together lately. Every field in the table header includes a gadget for sorting it by that field value. The difference is that the List of N64 games would need such a header for each starting letter, which would not allow "global" sorting by other fields. Politically Corrupt (talk) 09:40, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I think I arranged the sortable tables the proper way, its pretty neat it refreshes that section of the page without reloading the entire thing, pretty handy for wanting to view all the Nintendo developed games in that section, a little sad that it's not for the entire page, but it dose make finding some info a bit easier, but I think it's much easier having the short sections rather then one long list with no breaks in it. (Floppydog66 (talk) 18:36, 27 February 2008 (UTC))

Sorting is nice, but it really needs to be worked into a single table for it to be actually useful. It would be very helpful for people trying to see the order in which games were released or to find all the games by a specific developer, etc... In my opinion its a must for the continued growth of the article. Divegato (talk) 21:25, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Also IGN.com has the exact release dates for all of the n64 games (at least all the games I checked). That would be very useful for sorting and increasing the quality of the list in general. Divegato (talk) 21:34, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Alright, then if no-one objects, I'm going to combine the tables. Divegato (talk) 10:46, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about not getting back to you sooner, our dog has been sick, and there was a friend's birthday. There are only two minor problems with having the list as a single table. First it's really big for people to edit and if they accidentally mess up one entry on the table, it'll show up on the entire page. The second is that the contents link at the top to the various A b and such doesn't work. I'm not sure if there's a way around that, while keeping something to make it quicker to jump to the various points in the table, sort of like the reference links. Standard e-book type html links might work but I haven't seen anything like that used on Wikipedia before and they might have some other way it might be done. But yes I think it's a better list with it as one sortible table, I wish there was a way to separate the sections a bit more though. As for release date the hard part would be finding and deciding which ones to use, most of the ones that we have on the various N64 games have different USA and Europe release dates, if we only use USA dates that could be considered biased to USA/North America releases, but if we do it like the list is set up the 1st English speaking release, or Japanese if exclusive. If a Europe date is not known we could use a USA one, but they would probably need references to them if it was listed as specific dates, even on the articles themselves the various release dates sometimes have one or two references just for the dates, Europe, USA, and Japan, which helps verify what the article says about it, and that someone didn't just come up with a date to fill in the blank. I think it's best with just the year release date because that seems nearly the same for each release, but if you wish to try adding the full dates to each here I have no objection. We could even go as far as a Chronology of N64 release dates, all dates for each release would be great to see, but like the "List of Japanese Nintendo 64 games" it would need a lot of separate references, and might seem to others to be repeating some of the information here and it might get marked up for deletion. I'd still like to see one :) but it'd probably be best to do a complete list of release dates outside of Wikipedia and have it posted somewhere else, it might even be used as a reference here and on the various articles pages. (Floppydog66 (talk) 20:18, 7 March 2008 (UTC))

Technically I think we should list all of the release dates for each area, possibly a separate column for each. I'm not sure how well this would work with the width of the table, information available or sheer amount of work though. I think its a good idea to remove the abc link box at the top. Since the list is now sortable it isn't as useful anyway.

Also, why does sorting not work correctly for the flags column? It's close to correct but not quite. Is it a brackets problem like the number of players column? Divegato (talk) 08:13, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I find that if we use

((CompactTOC8|center=no|num=yes|refs=yes|short1)) replacing the () with curly brackets and adding
|< span id="B" >< /span > we can keep the complete list sortable and use the Contents links at the top, this will mean having to edit the entire list from the top, but so far it seems those two things have been requested most, if you don't want it that way, feel free to revert it, but please mention it in this talk section. (Floppydog66 (talk) 00:56, 19 December 2008 (UTC))

Better Tables needed possibly, or different format

How to best include a name like "Lylat Wars" seems to cause confusion and headache for some. I think we need to try find a way to include such things into the table as sortable, but not take up additional table space, but like the sortable tables and the "Table of Contents" they seemed to just cancel each other out, until the 'Span' link helped work them both into the list. We should find something like the example below and keep going on with the table, and "Lylat Wars" somehow be sortable without all the additional tables behind it, or without having to make a table "Lylat Wars, --see Star Fox" and then having it again as Star Fox, aka "Lylat Wars"). There may be a way to do this and keep it all in the Title(s) column and keep it bound to Star Fox, (so the searcher knows the proper link) but this type thing should also work for the game if it had two alternate titles to really be useful, listing them both and the main title all in alphabetical order, without the information having to be in more tables. (Floppydog66 (talk) 22:05, 12 January 2009 (UTC))

Title(s)	Year	Developer	Publisher	Regions released	Number of Players
StarFox 64	1997	Nintendo	Nintendo	JP, NA, PAL	1-4

(Lylat Wars)^EUR
(Alternate Lylat Wars)^Everywhere

Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth

1998

Hudson Soft

Hudson Soft

JP, NA

1

Here is another example of a table that is close to how it could better sort the various titles, in this way all titles would be sortable, but as you can see there are a bit of glitches when clicking on "First Year" and Titles, the next Developer info and such are moved into new columns outside the main table after clicking on the sort 'Title(s)' link twice. Then the sorting won't go back to the original position without refreshing the page. Also when clicking on the sort by title it won't keep the Star Fox link close at hand which is another draw back, unless something like "Lylat Wars, --see Star Fox", but without using the sorting that message wouldn't be of much use to someone who already sees "Star Fox" above Lylat Wars. The good things are that it does allow all titles to be arranged Alphabetically including Alternate Titles, without adding a separate table for each alternate title, also the code for doing this is quite a bit shorter then having the EM-dashes and "Alternate Titles" column.

< center >& mdash;< /center > about 309 times =6798 characters
rowspan="3"| about 79 times = 948 characters

Title(s)	First Year	Developer	Publisher	Regions released	Number of Players
StarFox 64	1997	Nintendo	Nintendo	JP, NA, PAL	1-4
Lylat Wars EUR
Alternate Star Fox title 2Anywhere
Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth	1998	Hudson Soft	Hudson Soft	JP, NA	1

Hopefully there is someone out there with a lot of Table/HTML experience that might know a better way to do this and make the tables work with all the Alternate Titles, and other sortable columns. (Floppydog66 (talk) 21:54, 24 January 2009 (UTC))

Game Magazine, and articles needed

I've been trying to dig up all the Strategy guides and magazines I can find to help give the games more references and make them more substantial, any magazine that tells about it can help every time it is mentioned helps to improve it's note worthiness. Some where even reviewed by Newspapers such as Washington Post and such if Educational or extremely popular, any reference to these games would help. I have all the Nintendo Power issues that dealt with the original N64 years, but that's about all the ones I have, to help improve the references, I hope more people will take the time to look through their collection of old magazines and help improve the articles about these games.(Floppydog66 (talk) 14:14, 22 February 2008 (UTC))

Improved Math

Of its 387 releases, 297 were released in North America, 42 of which were exclusive to North America. 197 were released in Japan, 83 of which were exclusive. 243 were released in Europe, 4 of which were exclusive. Snowboard Kids 2 was released in Australia, but not in Europe for a total of 244 games in Australia.

Here are the total number of games from each release zone based on the current list. Does this look good for including? (Divegato (talk) 11:29, 4 March 2008 (UTC))

I think our region listings still needs work and that the "Exclusive" only numbers are better to show how many of the different games weren't released outside of their regions. They became a almost unreleased game, Taz Express can still be considered a Unreleased game in Japan and USA, even though it was reviewed in Nintendo Power as a game that would be released in the USA, we also only have the three lists below as reference, and they don't say for sure which games where released in which regions, the games being listed by region still could be considered "original research" and was possibly made by looking at these lists checking release dates and online searching. For regions released we probably still need a listing for the rest of Asia, that had N64 games released there, and South America, that would be a total world view of the system and its games, but it'd probably still be difficult to tell which games where released where, and how many each had, without official lists, like the one Nintendo of America made. (Floppydog66 (talk) 21:18, 7 March 2008 (UTC))

Contents box

It does nothing, because of the way the list's table is built. If each letter of the alphabet was its own table then it would work. So my question is should we just remove it? --AeronPrometheus (talk) 10:42, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I think the sorting does what this once did. I think it should be deletedDivegato (talk) 17:27, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Japanese Titles in Japanese

I saw that this was a big discussion in the archived talk pages. Seeing as this is the English Wikipedia, shouldn't the Japanese titles be in translated form. Most people (on English wikipedia) cannot read in Japanese whereas the translated titles would get all necessary information across. I'm not gonna go ahead and delete anything unless there is some agreement though. Divegato (talk) 17:37, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Which are you concerned about? 1. The Japanese titles themselves such as wanting English names for the games such as Yakochu II, being re-titled as "Glowing Seaweed II", or 2. Is it the Japanese text, and you think it and the Romaji shouldn't both be in displayed such as this;
(スーパーロボット大戦６４)
Super Robot Taisen 64

In WikiProject Japan, (a part of English Wikipedia) it asks that all articles when referring to Japanese books and such, to give a conversion, or most popular name of any given title and then give it's name in it's original form. It shows besides their usual English title, they where also given a Japanese title of their own as well, in many cases having both printed on there cover. The Japanese and English spelling of those words also gives anyone with the Japanese script the chance to check the Romaji spelling. For instance:
(ゼルダの伝説。　時のオカリナ)
Zelda no Densetsu: Toki no Ocarina

If Japan titled their version
(レジェンドオブゼルダ。　オカリナオブタイム)
using Katakana (as is usually done when translating English words directly to Japanese speech) then it would be a direct translation of the English name , but it's not. It is given it's own unique Japanese title, and instead of titles like "Star Wars: Teikoku no Kage" being translated straight into Katakana, they where given unique names of their own, in this case the alternate title is also displayed on it's cover, in the same way "XG2" and "Ten Eighty Snowboarding" have alternate titles along with the main title on their covers. In a list of Japanese games which we've already had at one point the title would be listed as Zelda no Densetsu: Toki no Ocarina, and there for is a alternate title, compared to a simple translation of a title. If we put here "Super Robot Wars 64" instead of "Super Robot Taisen 64" then it might be understood that the two games where the same, but in both cases the official names should be listed here, and even though "Super Robot Wars 64" is not a official title of a game, it could be seen as a alternate title, since other games in this series have "Robot Wars" in English, but either way we should still keep the Japanese name, whether we keep "Super Robot Taisen 64" and (スーパーロボット大戦６４) or simply Super Robot Taisen 64, at least one should be listed here. Then in that case, it should still be used in titles like "FIFA: World Cup he no Michi '98, Star Wars: Shutsugeki! Rogue Chuutai, and Star Wars: Teikoku no Kage, Tsumi to Bachi: Chikyū no Keishousha, and Zelda no Densetsu: Majora no Kamen.

When we updated this page with Japanese titles I listed it so all available info was available at once, including Japanese text, and left it up to anyone else to keep either or both the Japanese text and or Romaji, Guyinblack25 removed some of the Japanese text, that he felt where translations of English words, and yet left "WWF WrestleMania 2000" in Japanese, and in cases like "Star Wars: Shutsugeki! Rogue Chuutai" even I missed the chance to list the Romaji for Rogue Squadron for some reason even though they are different. I still feel Zelda no Densetsu: Toki no Ocarina, should be listed as alternate title as well as the others, like New Japan Pro Wrestling: Tōhkon Road Brave Spirits, just as long as either the Romaji and, or Japanese text is kept in the alternate titles section, either one or both. l feel if people come and see "Akumajo Dracula" they'll add the Japanese titles of Zelda also. Altogether there are only about 10 games that are like this but some editors still don't want the Japanese "Zelda" title mentioned, when the English one is here. These two are sort of Special Editions like ClayFighter 63 1/3 Sculptor's Cut, and Blitz Special Edition, they should be listed under alternate title, since they are officially released games.

• Super Mario 64: Shindō Pak Taiō Version
• Wave Race 64: Shindō Pak Taiō Version
  

I found while looking through our original reference by Thiago Simoes, that these games have been missing from our list, the only other game was Pokemon Attack, besides being the name of a SNES game it seems to have been a pre-production name for Pokemon Puzzle League and not actually released, by that name.
Yannick Noah's All Star Tennis '99 (French only)
and two additional names for "Michael Owen's WLS 2000"
Telefoot Soccer 2000 (French only)
RTL World League Soccer 2000 (German) (Floppydog66 (talk) 23:35, 15 May 2008 (UTC))

Removal of Alternate Titles and Number of Players

Please add your (User_talk:) link short form, to the list below indicating keep/remove, and place any discussion below the existing discussion, or in a talk page section of it's own. Thank You.

Alternate titles, keep

• User_talk:Goldom
• User_talk:RobJ1981
• User_talk:floppydog66
• User_talk:Guyinblack25
• User_talk:Thibbs
• User_talk:Taric25
• User_talk:Sean Curtin
• User_talk:Divegato
• User_talk:MuZemike
• User talk:Carlosguitar
• User_talk:Blast Vortex

Alternate titles, remove

• User_talk:Philip Laurence
• User_talk:Timkovski
• User_talk:SeizureDog
• User_talk:Rhonin the wizard
• User_talk:New Age Retro Hippie
  

Number of Players, keep

• User_talk:JoshuaMD
• User_talk:Paper Luigi
• User_talk:floppydog66
• User_talk:Thibbs
• User_talk:Blast Vortex
  
  

Number of players, remove

• User_talk:SeizureDog
• User_talk:New Age Retro Hippie
• User_talk:RobJ1981
• User_talk:Guyinblack25
• User_talk:Rhonin the wizard
  

These two columns aren't needed and this way the size of the article can be reduced. So I'm going to start removing them. Any objections? Rhonin the wizard (talk) 04:40, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm almost done, just fixing some things, three games have an extra flag, one with Australia, two with Brazil, I'm removing these. Rhonin the wizard (talk) 06:42, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

It's done. I've found that the letter search thingy isn't working, don't know how to fix it, and that some games are listed twice. Rhonin the wizard (talk) 07:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

I Reverted the page back to where we had it. The consensus so far has been keep the alternate titles column. As mentioned above and in the various chats above. Usually if you wish to make a large change like that, and if it hasn't been discussed before the minimum you should wait before changing it is about a week, once a month is sometimes all the major contributors get online when they work on only one subject at a time. However when the number of players section was added it wasn't discussed and that user seemed to only do that and others helped to correct it, and felt it was worth keeping or at least correcting. I just finished posting a note at the two other main contributors pages to see if they'd like to keep the # players section and if so to come here and tell why they felt it was useful. I know it probably took a lot of time to make those changes but we try to keep the option open to everyone to make changes, but not when it goes against what has already be decided. If you wish to find another way to incorporate all the titles into a smaller more simple list this is the place to discuss it. Other lists are good, but the reason this list is a Featured Article is because it lists all the games from all regions, and tries to present the most useful information available at a glance.(Floppydog66 (talk) 20:45, 10 August 2008 (UTC))

Keep it — The list is an easy resource for looking up multiplayer or single-player games without actually having to go to every article (some don't even have articles). As one of the top contributors to that column, I think we should leave it as it is. Paper Luigi ^{Talk • Contributions} 17:19, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

OK, if that's what everybody thinks, I'll submit, but do the Australian and Brazilian flags have to stay?Rhonin the wizard (talk) 18:08, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

The Australian and Brazil flags show that the game had a special version release for that region, in the case of Snowboard Kids 2, it wasn't released in Europe as all the other Australia games where and when a game is listed here it's info should also mention that on the articles page. As for the tables being having a broken contents link, it had broken links because the entire article was made sortable. But with smaller sections this sortable version is broken up and is of no real use. The longer without breaks keep vandalism down a bit it seems, but I would like a way to skip to B or C letters, the only way I could think is to link to the first title in that letter, but that doesn't seem to work because of the table format. There doesn't seem to be a way to link from outside a table to inside a table, or from inside a table to inside the same table at another location. (Floppydog66 (talk) 19:30, 11 August 2008 (UTC))

Japanese dates are, by necessity on an English Wikipedia, an additional feature, not necessary. The only example provided is so insufficient that if it were allowed, then any argument of similar quality would be. What about French names? Or German names? - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 21:36, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Glad to see you made it over to the List's talk page. I think you meant 'titles' not "Japanese dates". French and German names can be listed also if you find any, but Wave Race 64, is Wave Race 64 in German too, "RTL World League Soccer 2000", is the only known different name in German, Tigger's Honey Hunt in France, and "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker", in Brazil are translated into French and Portuguese, but they are direct translations. There is a entire discussion about them in the talk archive here, [1]] and [2] so far the only consensus reached about alternate titles is they shouldn't be a direct translation. (Floppydog66 (talk) 02:13, 18 December 2008 (UTC))

If they are English names, they be included. You're basically saying the right thing to do is have 20kb worth of merely "useful" content for an uncommon situation. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 04:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I personally think the number of players should go. It might be "useful" to some, but frankly: people will visit articles to find out that information anyway. Knowing how many players a game isn't crucial information for a video game list such as this one. RobJ1981 (talk) 05:34, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I invited other 'List of' contributes to this discussion also, since it mostly applies to any "List of...games" that features more then one region, some have suggested that they take up too much space and that other columns could seem to be "useful only to fans", and other things that have been mentioned at other 'List of' talk pages. I think the alternate titles may be better as

Wikipedia Main Title	Year	Developer/Publisher	Regions released	Number of Players
1080° Snowboarding	1998	Nintendo/Nintendo	JP, NA, PAL	1-4
64: Tenshi no Yakusoku	1999	Altron/Altron	JP	1
AeroFighters Assault Sonic Wings AssaultJP	1997	Paradigm Entertainment/Video System	JP, NA, PAL	1-4
Michael Owen's WLS 2000 Mia Hamm 64 SoccerUSA RTL World League Soccer 2000GER Telefoot Soccer 2000FRA	2000	Silicon Dreams/THQ and SouthPeak Games	NA, PAL	1-4

Please give your opinion, and hopefully keep these type of concerns from arising again and again at each "List of" pages. I think this is better as it also doesn't have the link to "Nintendo" twice for the same entry and such things, as for number of Players and other columns I believe that should be left up to each systems "List" the Famicom List, PS1 and others are so large that just the titles and one other column are enough to make it over 100kb and if a person is going to have to go to the Infobox on each games page to look up the "number of players" then I feel it should be listed here. If someone has to go from article page to article page to find out something all the games have in common they it should also be listed here. However a date column would have to have a date for each regions release with two or more dates for each game and unless there is a better, Region one date, Region 2 date, sortable date, that they wouldn't be very helpful except systems that where only released in one region. (Floppydog66 (talk) 00:59, 19 December 2008 (UTC))

It strikes me that if one were to remove the "Alternate Titles" and "Number of Players" then certain alternative arrangements should be made to preserve the material. As far as the alternate titles is concerned, I think it would be a good idea to make sure the full title and all variations was present in the article on the game. Redirects should be set up for all versions of the title for the benefit of anybody searching. The problem that arises is what to do when there is not main article on one of the games. One solution would be to create a stub for all games considering it's quite unlikely that any more will be produced. Another solutions would be to simply enclose the alternate (non-English) titles in ref tags and leave them in the Notes section. If I were pressed for a decision on the issue I would leave the alternate titles column alone. (This is what I had written before it edit-conflicted with Floppydog's suggestion regarding merging the alt. titles into the title column. I quite like this idea and will change my vote to that.)

As for the "Number of Players" column, I believe this could easily be removed and few would even notice. Any number of other columns would be more useful to the average researcher than the number of players (e.g. a "Producer" or "Developer" column, not that I'm suggesting we add these). That said, I'm generally not in favor of removal of content without an actual reason and because of that I would have to vote a weak keep for that column as well. -Thibbs (talk) 01:04, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

The only time an alternate title should be listed, IMO, is when the title was originally released in a non-English version before being ported to English (if it was released in English at all). If the title is originally from an English-speaking country, and then later ported to a non-English speaking country, then there is no reason to have an alternate title listed here. There is no size limitation on inclusion of material, and if the page gets too large, it can always be broken into more than one page to accommodate those with slower connections. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 01:41, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

We don't need Japanese alternate titles. They are completely extraneous to the list, and of no use to any significant number of people that it is necessary. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 02:08, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

They may not be useful for marjority of English Wikipedia users, but I do not see an improvement removing them, they also do not do any harm. The use of class="wikitable sortable" makes this page much more heavy than adding Japaneses titles. Carlosguitar ^{(Yes Executor?)} 11:17, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

My two cents. I've been a large contributor over on the Super NES pages for the better share of a year now. I personally would be against having the Japanese versions of the titles on the main list page. That's partly because I don't keep fonts on my computer that I cannot read -- which means that Japanese fonts just show alternate graphics that really make the reading experience less than nice. Romanization of the Japanese titles I would support, but the Japanese fonts themselves? no. Keep the Japanese names on the individual pages, but leave the Romanization on the list page, no matter what column you choose to put it in.

I had originally fought for "Wikipedia Main Title" as the main name of the first column on the SNES pages. What we found in certain cases there was that the game itself was originally introduced to the world under one name, then ported to the SNES under a different name. In those cases, the "alternate" title was the only title the game was ever published under for the SNES. This was later rabidly changed, without much warning, to have the main US title as the first listed title, if there was a US publication, or the European title, if there was no US release, which still leaves us foundering for a proper title on our first column. (Note: Super Famicom is separated from Super Nintendo on our lists, so "Japanese-Only" releases do not fight for title space)

I personally see no need for telling which games are single player and which are multiplayer on the SNES pages, but evidently here, there is a big desire for such a thing. Maybe there's a way to shorten the column? "S" for single player, "M" for multiplayer (but do you want an S&M column?), or maybe just a single digit indicator of the max number of players ("4" instead of "1-4").

I would highly consider a complete rewrite for the intro section. Quite honestly -- paragraph 2 deals with how the games are put together -- something that would belong more in the main Wikipedia article for Nintendo 64, not in the game list. Paragraph three starts with a sentence indciating a beginner's basic lesson on what a link is, then proceeds to more information about the lifespan of the N64 -- again more intended for the main N64 article, not for the game list. Paragraph one deals with instructions on how to keep the list organized -- more something to keep on the discussion page than something to have out front on the main page.

My suggestion for the intro:

This is a complete list of all 387 games for the Nintendo 64 video game system, organized alphabetically by their English titles or their alphabet conversions. Of the 387 releases, 83 were exclusive to Japan, 42 to North America, and 4 to Europe.

This list does not include games for the Nintendo 64DD.

Further information: [[:Nintendo 64]]

But that's just me. I was asked to provide my thoughts. Honestly, SNES keeps me about as busy as I want to be with Wikipedia. Good luck to you. Dawynn (talk) 13:59, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Here's a couple of things. I support having alternate titles only if 1) that is the only title available, like a Japan-only release, or 2) It is an official (i.e. verifiable) alternate version of the main English title and not some title translation from English by Joe Anybody. I agree that the number of players aren't really necessary and only serves to clutter the size and layout of the list. MuZemike (talk) 15:31, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Wow- I never thought I'd be discussing this again. :-p A few points:

• I think some editors have a misconception about alternate titles. While a good chunk of alternates are Japanese, it also includes different English titles in Europe and Australia; like StarFox 64 (Lylat Wars) and Batman Beyond (Batman of the Future). The column was added and originally titled "Alternate titles" to avoid regional biases towards American titles and Japanese alternates.
• I agree that the use of Japanese titles should be limited to official translations that differ from the English titles; i.e. transliterations like 1080° Snowboarding (テン・エイティ　スノーボーディング, Ten Eiti Sunōbōdingu) should be excluded.
• I see no reason to keep the number of players. I've always viewed such facts like that as trivial details that should be confined to the game's article page. I'm sure some readers have found it useful, but I'm willing to bet those users are N64 fans. And while we should cater to their needs, we should not overlook other more general readers. I believe this extra column adds unneeded information that few readers outside of fans need to know, and it clutters the list rather than improve it.

My two cents. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 16:09, 19 December 2008 (UTC))

The only argument to include Japanese titles is usefulness, which isn't an adequate argument to do such a thing. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 19:16, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Do you think all alternate titles should be excluded or just the Japanese ones? (Guyinblack25 ^talk 20:11, 19 December 2008 (UTC))

Just Japanese ones. Alternate English titles are necessary, alternate Japanese titles are not. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 20:36, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Most of the Japanese released games and its alternate titles are in English, and as Nihonjoe mentions games often have their names changed before, coming to the USA or other regions, most of the these games where released there first. Titles like "Let's Smash" are more 'world' English, then 'Centre Court Tennis', with "Centre" being used almost entirely exclusively in British, (according to Webster's Dictionary, and various other dictionaries and sites). And if we only go by names as they where first released and not 'Ports' to other regions and languages, then "Lylat Wars" would be a ported title, it was released in Japan, it was translated into English and other languages, after 3 (USA) and 6 (Europe) months. At it's very basic the only thing this list claims to be is of "Games" and that would include all games that where officially released for the system, regardless of how many names the company wished to sell the games by, it is still a game. Clay Fighter: Sculptor's Cut, and NFL Blitz Special Edition, (Nintendo of America, listed these on there list of also) are basically slightly different versions of the same program, as are the most Sports games and others, with only minimal changes or additions, in fact N64 Magazine issue 32, in Europe gave the game "F-1 World Grand Prix II", 76% a worse score then part one 93%, even though they claim it has better graphics and such, stating that it had very little new and wasn't worth the extra money if a player had the 1st game. Which shows how some people can feel that the second or alternate version is not as important as the one that they know of. (Floppydog66 (talk) 03:05, 20 December 2008 (UTC))

It seems odd to me to keep the English alternate titles, but not the Japanese ones. Given that the system was sold globally, shouldn't the all regions be represented? Maybe to keep the content to a minimum, the Japanese characters should be removed, and only the romaji kept? Thoughts? (Guyinblack25 ^talk 05:30, 20 December 2008 (UTC))

It's been explained several times - English names are of use to people on the English Wikipedia because they are in English. With almost no exception, Japanese names are merely for informational usage, NOT to make the article more accessible to readers. English alternate titles are used because any game may use several different titles in other English-speaking countries, and if we do not list these alternate titles, many readers will not have full access to this list. I'm not concerned with the minuscule minority of people who would only know the Japanese title for an English release, because there exists a Japanese Wikipedia. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 08:37, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm well aware of the explanations; I made similar arguments a year ago when the Japanese list was merged into this one. I guess my main concern is FL criteria 3: comprehensiveness. "It comprehensively covers the defined scope, providing a complete set of items where practical." That's why I think it's improper to exclude Japanese alternates as it provides an incomplete list of alternate titles. I agree the Japanese names do little to aid in searching, but, as you stated, they serve an informational purpose, which is one of the points of lists. I also believe they prevent a Western bias. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 13:49, 20 December 2008 (UTC))

There's no such thing as a "comprehensive list" because no list should have every relevant piece of information. And are you suggesting that the number of players is not informational? It's never been argued that Japanese titles are necessary information, essentially because they aren't. Japanese titles are, at best, "interesting information". Other English titles are, at least, "necessary". Logically, if we include Japanese titles to be complete, we have to include every single title a game has ever had in the entire world. And what does Japanese titles have to do with preventing any Western bias? The only good reason ever presented to include alternate titles has been for readers' convenience, which has never been argued for the Japanese titles. Including them is complete eastern bias, as it is of no convenience or necessity, and is barely of any use. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 18:08, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Granted, its ludicrous to claim to be comprehensive, if you mean listing every possible bit of information about a game. It is *NOT* silly to talk about being comprehensive in the sense of listing every official release of an N64 game. Since its unlikely that any new releases will be created for the N64, we are talking about a finite entity here. (Side note: with the work being done for the Genesis, I guess we can never say that any system is truly *dead*. See Beggar Prince. Note, this is a fine line here. I would tend to consider the recent release of Beggar Prince as official, but unlicensed. Unlicensed, not pirated -- something like Wisdom Tree used to do.)

So, yes, we're talking about including every name the game was ever released under in the entire world -- as long as the releases were official releases for the N64. Pirate versions do not need to be listed. Versions for, say, Sony Dreamcast, or Arcade machines, or Windows, or Macintosh would not need to be included on this list, as this list has defined itself as being specific to N64. That being said, if a game was released under one name in the US, another in European regions, and a third name in Japan, these should all be listed. If Sweden had a different name, and France had another name, those should also be listed. I would suggest listing specifically under the name(s) listed on the Box Art, in cases where certain games may have language selection screens that lead to different title screens.

For the sake of comprehensiveness, I *would* include the Romanized versions of the Japanese titles (except, of course, where the box art already uses normal English and European character sets for the names). I don't see a point in listing the Japanese-based names on this page. Leave that for the individual game pages. Why list the names of the games as they were sold in Japan (or China, or Russia, or any other non-English speaking country)? Because if you don't, someone somewhere will run across one of these names and assume that the list is incomplete. They will then try to add the game, not realizing that it may already be present, but only under its English name. By including the Japanese name, if someone runs across one of these names, they can come here and may find out that the game had an official English release, but under a different name. *That's* how you are benefitting English speakers by including all of these foreign alternate names. Dawynn (talk) 04:32, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

For the sake of comprehensiveness? The problem is that being "comprehensive" is by far NOT the most important thing for a list to do. The fact of the matter is that no one has ever said anything besides "Japanese names exist and thus should be listed!". Not one person has ever suggested not listing anything less than "every game released". We list alternate English names for only one reason - so that readers aren't confused. Who is going to be confused? The likelihood of someone knowing only the Japanese name for a game is so little that it is not even remotely a factor at all. Content has to be necessary before we can say "oh, throw that in!", and being "interesting" or giving "more information" has nothing to do with necessity. There's so much info we can throw on the list that can be called both of those, so why shouldn't we include genre, series, designer, etc.? - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 05:20, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Alternate titles, Comprehensiveness, Consistency, Necessity, and usefulness, in alphabetized order if not most importance. No matter how we arrange the list we have "Alternate titles", as well as Romaji game titles, such as games like DaiKatana, Rakuga Kids, the list needs to be constant through out, that is what has been called 'usefulness' and deleting some alternate titles and not others leaves a inconstancy at one end or the other, for that reason all are given so readers "aren't confused", and wondering why others "aren't listed". Titles like Daikatana, Rakuga Kids are not any harder for the general reader to understand then the alternate Japanese names, or for that matter Japanese Exclusive names which are also listed, whether it is one level being changed, text being altered, sporting averages updated the new game is different then the one it comes before and after. I think it is important for a Encyclopedia article to be "Comprehensive, consistent, necessary, useful", however some people may disagree. (Floppydog66 (talk) 09:13, 21 December 2008 (UTC))

• facepalm* Why do people think that every single article needs to have every single thing that could ever be said about it? Well, so what you're saying is it's important for lists to have every single name given to a game, but not one single article? Just curious, how many featured articles that originate from English regions or from Japan have French, German, etc. names? None. You're confusing comprehensive with trivial, which is what Japanese alternate titles are. We are not being consistent by including Japanese titles, because we include English alternate titles for the sole purpose of making it more convenient for readers. Where is the convenience in including alternate Japanese titles? Yeah, I'm sure we have a lot of people who go here who know the Japanese name for a game and not the English one. Because the reason alternate titles are included does not factor in as a reason to include Japanese titles, there is NO consistency. The argument that "if you include one thing, you have to include any similar things or the article is inconsistent!" This is absurd, how is one single person inconvenienced who will ever need to use this Wikipedia by not including Japanese titles? This isn't "unfair" or any other silliness, it's common sense - what reason is there to include alternate titles in the first place? - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 09:33, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

←Wow, I missed some stuff yesterday. :-p A few things:

• In regard to comprehensiveness, if there are no comprehensive lists on Wikipedia, then Wikipedia:Featured list removal candidates is about to get overloaded by over a thousands lists. Lists are suppose to have all relevant information. It's the trivial information that should be excluded. What we have here is difference in opinion of what is relevant and what is trivial.
• "facepalm"? Come on, there's no need for that. I think you're misinterpreting what is being said. No one is saying, "Japanese names exist and thus should be listed!"
• While some Japanese titles are trivial (WWF WrestleMania 2000 as WWF Ressurumania 2000), others are not. In fact, many are the games' original titles: Super Smash Bros. (Dairantō Smash Brothers), Resident Evil 2 (Biohazard 2), and Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness (Akumajo Dracula Mokushiroku Gaiden: Legend of Cornell)
• We are not trying cater to the needs every possible reader. We're trying to make sure a featured lists complies with Wikipedia:Featured list criteria, which includes comprehensively covering the defined scope while providing a complete set of items. The list is for games developed for the Nintendo 64, a globally distributed gaming system. To omit some of the alternate titles, would leave that column inconsistent.

Link- reasons have been provided, if you don't agree with them that's your prerogative. But please don't say none have been given or they are absurd and silly. Anyway, I think we can all agree the number of players should be removed. How about we remove that column for now? (Guyinblack25 ^talk 20:31, 21 December 2008 (UTC))

The problem with listing all relevant information is that if you argue that, people are going to come here week after week and say "but you said we should include all relevant information, so we should include ____!". There's such a thing as having too much information. Alternate titles only need be included to assist readers, not because they're informational. We don't have articles listing every alternate title, only the necessary ones. There's no inconsistency in excluding Japanese alternate titles if the reason other alternate titles ARE included doesn't work for Japanese titles. People say that we don't have to include every alternate title (like retitlings), but that creates inconsistency - after all, the retitling is an alternate title. The problem with the argument is that this proposal is fighting for consistency, yet in the process, isn't making it fully consistent. There's nothing inconsistent about excluding Japanese names, because the column's only purpose is to help people navigate the list. Adding Japanese names merely increases the kb size and the number of alternate titles - it does not improve navigation of the list. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 22:09, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Those that want to add in extra content will have to make an argument to add them in, and show it is relevant information, not trivial. I agree most lists one Wikipedia provide too much information, but I do not think this falls under that. Several editors have expressed reasons for including them.

• Navigation is not the only reason to include alternate titles. In fact, when the column was first added, the list was not sortable. It was added to prevent a regional bias towards the US and provide more relevant information about the list's contents. Navigation was at the bottom of the list.
• I don't see how excluding some redundant titles like WWF Ressurumania 2000 is inconsistent. It's the exact same title, just a transliteration from one language to another. It doesn't change the title, and is not an alternative title.

Anyway, can we at least agree on the number of players column to get it taken care of? (Guyinblack25 ^talk 22:59, 21 December 2008 (UTC))

I think the discussion is still open and about half and half as to Number of Players, I made a list, keep/remove, for the two questions being discussed here, (Guyinblack25 feel free to format the list into a better talk form if you like), I put it at the top of this discussion so people could add their opinion without giving a long explanation if they don't feel the need. Some seem to not care about something, but would not remove a column so I didn't add them to this list, only those that actually said, Yes, this, No that, type thing. The problem with asking people if Alternate Titles should be kept is that some people have different views as to which should be kept, (if any), some people don't say if they'd rather "Remove All" alternate titles, rather then be "required to" list Japanese, German, French names, as long as not direct translations. My feeling is "All" and not
Exclusive USA, UK, Japanese, then listing Alternate USA, and Alternate UK only titles as has been done before. As for other columns, such as type of Game, RolePlaying and such, I think is more a matter of personal feeling, some people consider Zelda RPG, others that it is a adventure game, and others a action game. While "Tetris" can be a puzzle game, most versions don't have a different solution and therefore it'd be a more reactionary, arcade type game. So far under the Gene/Style/Type of game there doesn't seem to be a consensus as to which belong under which heading. While things like the "Number of Players" is a researchable, reference, that doesn't change, and can easily be verified as well as the Developer, Publisher, even the Release Date/Year is more questionable on some games then Number of Players. Last but not least, at least for today, it's also been suggested that we could list Alternate titles like this also, (if we list them at all that is) with () around the titles to better seperate them from the longer majority titles that may be too long for the tables;

Title(s)	Year	Developer	Publisher	Regions released	Number of Players
StarFox 64 (Lylat Wars)EUR	2000	Nintendo	Nintendo	JP, NA, PAL	1-4

This is a bit shorter then the centered names, but I personally like the centered alternate names (other table I made in this section) because the majority name is on the left side, and if the title is longer then the table, it is continued below aligned to the left while the Alternate Title is centered and easier to identify. I think we should give this discussion one more month, from today, to let everybody have their say, and then make the changes to whatever has been decided, it's the holiday season for most people, and some people might be absent or on vacation, that may wish to give their feelings on the discussion. (Floppydog66 (talk) 02:10, 23 December 2008 (UTC))

Though I the last column should go, I think combining the title and alternate columns together works well. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 04:49, 24 December 2008 (UTC))

1. The number of players should go. We should not link to the publisher's name if we link to them in the same game's developer column.
2. The Japanese alternate titles have no use other than "more information". It's never been asserted as necessary because it isn't. If we remove the Japanese alternate titles, there is no bias because there's no expectation to include such information, and no one ever said that if we include any alternate titles, we must include all of them. We have articles for a reason - if they want to find ADDITIONAL information, they can visit those articles. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 18:47, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

I like the design above, as long as alternate titles are not direct translations of their English titles. Paper Luigi ^{Talk • Contributions} 21:31, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

1. The "Number of Players" column provides information as to which games where 'social games' and those that are played 'solitarily' which when it comes to Video Game Violence and other such studies, is just as important of a research criteria, it is also a better and more accurate column, then the "Year" released column.
2. So far we've heard reasons for removing 'Some' Alternate Titles, when the same argument for removing them could be made for removing 'All' the other Alternate titles as well. While the other regions titles are in 'English', those have been suggested to be removed also, even though the main disagreement seems to be that English titles can be easier to read.
3. If there is a reason to keep one column then that reason should be compared with the other columns, and not that "This should go", but "This should stay", when there is equal discussion about each. Last but possible worth a discussion of its own would be to link Nintendo's Published games to the article about List of video games published by Nintendo, rather then to the standard Nintendo page, and link those sections to the Games "developed by", "published by" articles, or sub-sections under those heading. I feel if a person uses "sort by" Publisher and they find Nintendo they shouldn't have to click on the "Developer" link unless they are both in the same column, but then sort by wouldn't be very useful for a Developer/Publisher section. But if we keep them separate then each Developer, Publisher should be linked independently and not require the person to go to one of the other columns to follow a 'Nintendo' link. (Floppydog66 (talk) 14:43, 27 December 2008 (UTC))

1. And that is nothing more than "oh hey, let's throw more information on!" It's not a necessity, it's a luxury.
2. Uh? There's no logic to say, ever, that English alt. titles are unnecessary.
3. That is a terrible argument. There's no logic to say that the reasoning to include one column, if it can apply to another, we must include that as well. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 07:16, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Every column's value is based on each person's individual values, and then the majority of these feelings are shared by the people working on and reading it. A Nintendo 64 game can be considered a great, and important game, but to someone only interested in Xbox, or Atari 2600, it will have less importance, or no importance at all, that's why references are used to determine which information is most widely known, and then a consensus can be reached as to which of the information is used. Each of those points has been brought up, and each has it's reasoning for being included. If someone "dislikes, doesn't find something useful, necessary", or the many other names that have been used here, then that is their opinion and should be judged against the rest of the opinions and against the other properties of this list. That is how community activities work. Anyone is free to contribute and each contribution only has the value people place on it. Logic and Reasoning are used to cross check each item then compare it with the others, if some of a group are needed then there is a reasoning that all would be needed, and expected. If something is said to be "not important" then its importance should be placed against others and compared. The result would be point by point comparison, with reasoning, and logic, rather then personal preference of what "is" and "is not". (Floppydog66 (talk) 18:35, 28 December 2008 (UTC))

I reiterate: If being useful is a good reason, then there's a lot more useful things being left out. Few people who would not recognize the English names available would be visiting this Wiki, the only examples you've given are limited to a scenario so unlikely that it's not even worth accounting for. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 23:00, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

So far there have been no other examples given of how this list could be improved, or changed, other then removing all alternate titles except for US, and UK alternate titles, and there needs to be examples of how it'd keep the list consistent, and comprehensive throughout and in compliance with Wikipedia standards according to the "Wikipedia:Lists", and "Wikipedia:Featured list", articles listed above. (Floppydog66 (talk) 23:09, 3 January 2009 (UTC))

The proposed removal of unnecessary Japanese names is an amazing idea. Keeping them there is a terrible one. Your argument of consistency is not a valid one at all. The only reason to have alternate titles is to cater to the English readers, not "to list them because it's interesting". - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 00:40, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

The proposed removals have not only been just the Japanese games. So far the only example is, to remove all Non-UK, Non-USA games alternate titles. Keeping or removing some, a few, or most of the Alternate titles, and how they could be listed is what this discussion is about. The reasoning for removing some of them seems to be that English is required to read the titles. However some of the ones being removed also had English names. While games like Fushigi no Dungeon: Fūrai no Siren 2: Oni Shūrai! Siren-jō!, Rakuga Kids, and Daikatana aren't English titles but Romaji titles and yet where left in place. There is reasons to argue for Jikkyō World Soccer: World Cup France '98, World Cup, FIFA Road to World Cup '98, Bomberman 64, Baku Bomberman 64, and other such cases, and there is just as much reasoning and logic to include Kakuto Densho: F-Cup Maniax, and Akumajo Dracula Mokushiroku Gaiden: Legend of Cornell, because they have just as much or more English in their titles then Rakuga Kids, and is still the easiest way the English speaker can find the game's name which does "cater to the English speaking people" and allow them to find it's article. The same can be said for Shin Nihon Pro Wrestling: Tōkon Honō Michi, Hyper Olympics in Nagano, or Iggy Kun no Bura2Poyon. How they are arranged, the consistency, comprehensiveness and system in which they are arranged is what the examples determine, and with them will be judged the "Necessity" readability, expectation, and purpose" of the List.

Sorry "Rhonin the wizard" when I made the Keep/Remove lists I got to your name when I realized we needed a second Keep/Remove, for each of the discussions, and I didn't get pasted on the other one :s Sorry (Floppydog66 (talk) 01:39, 8 January 2009 (UTC))

Ugh. Listen - the point is not that the titles are not in English. The point is that they are not known in any English regions. If we were talking about the former, the Xenosagas would be inappropriate because they use German. The point is that alternate titles are for the convenience of the readers, not for anything else. Explain to me who needs these alternate titles. Explain to me why the only people who need non-English alt. titles is useful for more than people who wouldn't even navigate the English Wiki. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 06:43, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry it's been so long since my last message, there was a birthday, having to work over the weekend, and then finding some better examples outside and inside of Wikipedia to answer New Age Retro Hippie's questions and try better explain the matters described. At first I was going to mention them alone and then thought maybe two columns like how we have the keep/remove columns above, but finally settled on the table form to show and compare the two views, hopefully it seems fair. The "Against Alternate titles" is listed first since that is usually how the discussions start, and it seems this is a good place for a "summing up". Somehow I doubt this discussion will ever have a end, some feel one way and others another, and there will be more and lengthier descriptions of the two various views, there will always be people that feel "NOBODY in America plays the Japanese games, or cares about them since it's impossible to." and others that think Japanese text, pronunciation keys and other such things are necessary here. But so far the consensus seems to be to include all alternate names except exact translations, and them to be represented in Latin alphabetical conversions.

I also started a new discussion about how the tables and such could better be formatted, above since it deals more with the sortabity. Here's the discussion summery so far, in the three main groups arranged mostly to answer the questions and concerns by 'New Age Retro Hippie'.

Against Alternate titles in other regions besides US, and UK British territories	For Alternate Titles in other Regions besides US, and UK British territories
Japanese and Non-English region games are not needed on this list.	The Nintendo 64 is a Video Game console it plays N64 games. 'Wild Choppers' is a game for the N64. This is a list of Nintendo 64 games Logically using Reasoning it is expected and necessary for a complete "List of Nintendo 64 Games".
The Japanese titles are completely extraneous, and of no use to any readers. People looking for a particular Japanese title can type it in the search box and be sent directly to the particular game's article page through a redirect.	A Wikipedia article is to be self contained with all the available information in one place and not require a person to go to other articles to find the rest of the information given in a general topic. Wikipedia is not solely for Wikipedians and we must assume that a person coming to these articles has not seen any of the others articles and that the list represents all the N64 games covered on Wikipedia. If a person does not find a listing for 'Wild Choppers', then they come to this page, the logical conclusion is that Wikipedia does not have a article about this game and this would be false, and there would be no reason they would next type the name of the game into the Wikipedia search box.
The only good reason ever presented to include alternate titles has been for readers' convenience, which has never been argued for the Japanese titles. Who is helped by listing their alternative Japanese names? The point is that they are not known in any English regions.	This list does not specify (it is for) American (and UK) only games, with the inclusion of any Japanese titles we are left with Romaji and non-English region games, while some are don't have English in-game text the majority of the 'Titles' are in English, and games like 'Wild Choppers' have been reviewed, and previewed by both names in English territories. From sources like Space World, demos sent to magazines, or magazines importing games to write a review about them. Non-English region N64 titles are present in almost every media. Here's a listing of just some of those for Wild Choppers. Nintendo Power # 92 p28, Nintendo Magazine System #47 p20, Total 64 Magazine #11 p16, 64 Magazine #9 p75, Q64 (magazine) Spring 98 p78, IGN [3] as well as possibly various other magazines and sites that cover such news about games being in production such as GamePro, Game Informer, EGM, Edge (magazine), GameFan. All N64 games are now Post-retail. As with all media and multi-region articles there are always imported games. English speaking regions frequently rent buy and sell these items, and the they get mixed into the culture of that region, then sold with little or no explanation as to where they came from. According to these search engines, import games have nearly as, or more page counts, as N64 games. Shortly after the Japanese launch of the N64, IGN recommended 9 sites where people could get the import games before they reached the USA[4]. And with the small amount of N64 games as compared to other systems and the fact that there are more games imported every year it is necessary that English speaking people do know which games are alternate titles for games released in there region. *That's* how (we) you are benefiting English speakers by including all of these foreign alternate names. Which is why this list and the List of Virtual Boy games seem to be the only two featured 'list of' in Videogames. Search Engines used, January 12th 2009 Google, 736,000 import games, 6,880,000 import videogames, 836,000 N64 games Yahoo, 118,000,000 import games, 17,100,000 import videogames, 33,900,000 N64 games MSN, 15,100,000 import games, 6,700,000 import videogames, 83,600,000 N64 games

(Floppydog66 (talk) 22:09, 12 January 2009 (UTC))

Are you asserting that a list must have all available information? Well, my guess is you will adequately enforce that fake quality guideline for this one thing, but fight against it whenever someone proposes anything more. I guess that means we should add genre, designer, all release dates around the world, series, ESRB rating, Game Rankings/Metacritic scores, awards, etc. Unless you now think that "we must include all available information" is actually a silly proposition. And is there some aspect of reality that forces you to completely ignore me whenever I make my points? Being in another language is not a problem. The only problem is that we are saying "these names, which are of importance to such a small minority of people that it's inestimatable how many people actually need them, need to be included because other names that are of importance to a vast majority of Wikipedia's readers are included". Fairness is not a factor in this discussion EVER. There is no need for titles that are of no use to almost all Wikipedians. That you established that a negligible amount of people may be confused is NOT a reason to make this list grossely large. And why do you keep saying "UK and US territories"? Did Canada and Australia suddenly sink into the ocean overnight?

Alternate names will never be used for anything more than navigation. If there was a need for Japanese titles to be included, you would have said this, not "well it's not fair if you exclude them!", disregarding that there's no such thing as "fairness guidelines". - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 20:39, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

If you or anyone else wish to add genre, designer, all release dates, etc, feel free to add them with proper references. If they are important and necessary, a discussion will then made about them, and a consensus about which we should include will be reached, as with anything on Wikipedia. This article only claims to be a 'List of Games', if it had only their names and nothing more we'd fulfill it's stated purpose. Sorry if I offend you for using U.K. (United Kingdom), I use it in the way I would for all U.S. (United States) Territories also, including District of Columbia. I guess the better description would be British Colonies, or British Empire and could also include places like the Cayman Islands, which might also have the same PAL type system. As for Canada, it also has French as the Official Language, and they may also have some of the French games, but you seemed to mention 'English Titles' most in your concerns. If you feel your 'points' (views) are not shared by everyone, then you should try convince the majority of your point of view with examples, references and facts. (Floppydog66 (talk) 15:27, 15 January 2009 (UTC))

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Country Flags, Genres, and Ratings

Why aren't they included? The Flags would make it look more professional and if there is a # of players section, why can't there be a genre and ESRB rating section? --SeQel (talk) 02:20, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

There are three main reasons that the flags where exchanged for NA, JP, PAL and such. 1st since Canada and the USA don't have a combined flag, as Europe has for many of it's countries, and 2nd at other places it's more exact to state PAL release then to list each country. 3rd they took longer for the page to load in different browsers and where more visual then say for the blind when being online that depend mostly on words, a pretty good discussion of it was mentioned here, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/archive31#Flags. As for Genes of game play there should be a series of linked formats at the beginning of the article that takes the reader to a article about that gene, such as Role playing game and arranged to meet the descriptions listed in Video game genres. In that way each might have two or more different genes such as Zelda. The same is true if using the "Official ratings ESRB, ELSPA", those are the only two I know of that regulated the English games, as far as I know none of the Japanese N64 games had a rating on them. But since this is a "table list" the information should be present on all of the games all the way through the list such as;

• AreoFighters Assult, E, 3+, Shooter; AeroGauge, E, 3+, Vehicle simulation/Racing; AI Shogi 3, --, Board game;

and so on all the way through the list, however some of this info hasn't been collected on Wikipedia, and should appear in the game articles as well, if it appeared here. That means alot of work would be needed to make this list complete for those two columns, and it'd need to be completed before it should be added to the list, not leaving the spaces blank hoping others will fill in the information later. There seems to have been a few people that seemed to be against the addition of Gene, or Ratings, but so far no complete example has been given, so there doesn't seem to be a consensus one way or another yet. If it can be done without going over 100kb, and it can be done for each title for the entire list, I think it would be a nice addition to the list. And even if the final consensus was to remove it, it'd still be in the page history. I suggest reading the discussions archived above, and then deciding if it's advisable to do this for the entire list, it shouldn't be done in this halfway style, it'd only ruin the chances of someone who would want to do this for the complete list, and have the consensus judged only then. (Floppydog66 (talk) 05:23, 16 February 2009 (UTC))

Are the Genre and Rating sections really necessary? It only brings the table more crowded. Versus22 _talk 20:11, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

I finished adding the rest of the information, for gene, and rating, I still haven't checked these to all the articles yet, but I got most of this information through images of the actual boxes on 64DD.net, Amazon.co.uk, Ebay, UK version, and a few other sites, I added a few genes, so each game has no more then 3 genes that it fits under, this information can hopefully help make the articles a bit better, and unless they have another source for different information, these should be the listings on the individual pages also. The information should not be removed from this "list of" until it has been incorporated into the other various articles, and there has been a consent reached here on the talk page, there have been requests for it before and also objections to this information being included. But now here is the general complete information at least for the English released regions. I double checked the USA ratings with this link on youtube

[5]
It is a slideshow "Nintendo 64/64DD Collection, Complete Officially Released Programs" which shows the USA ratings on the front of the carts, sadly the Europe carts hardly ever have ratings on the carts, and the info is either on the back of the box or bottom edge. Please don't add Pal, release in that region unless you can find a actual cartridge with the large O Euro "Nintendo Seal of Quality" on it, or the Pal box which is black on the boarders instead of red as the USA ones are. Amazon.uk and other sites sell USA games also and just because they're listed as being sold doesn't mean they are Pal, or Uk versions. Lastly I'd like to tell what necessary information these two columns help provide. The "gene" helps people with titles like Japanese such as "Nushi Tsuri 64", and titles like "CyberTiger", and "Rainbow Six" for people who are unfamiliar with the N64 or what the games are. Could they be an animal game and sequel to Rainbow Islands? The ratings show what type of content the game has, from boxes to magazines, that information is thought necessary by many. I arranged the genes in a loose sort of order that can be discussed as to what types of genes we might better use to describe some games, and then we can also make the Video game genres article better by making these things more clear as to what would be the best, but I feel 3 descriptors or less works better. I try to check my spelling as I go and check over it again but I always seem to miss some of my bigger mistakes :s (Floppydog66 (talk) 22:14, 25 February 2009 (UTC))

Appereantly, Floppydog likes my idea and has already filled the entire genre section, so why delete all the hard work they did?--SeQel (talk) 20:55, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Removal of Alternate Titles and Number of Players

Please add your (User_talk:) link short form, to the list below indicating keep/remove, and place any discussion below the existing discussion, or in a talk page section of it's own. Thank You.

Alternate titles, keep

• User_talk:Goldom
• User_talk:RobJ1981
• User_talk:floppydog66
• User_talk:Guyinblack25
• User_talk:Thibbs
• User_talk:Taric25
• User_talk:Sean Curtin
• User_talk:MuZemike
• User talk:Carlosguitar
• User_talk:Blast Vortex

Alternate titles, remove

• User_talk:Divegato
• User_talk:Philip Laurence
• User_talk:Timkovski
• User_talk:SeizureDog
• User_talk:Rhonin the wizard
• User_talk:New Age Retro Hippie
  

Number of Players, keep

• User_talk:JoshuaMD
• User_talk:Paper Luigi
• User_talk:floppydog66
• User_talk:Divegato
• User_talk:Thibbs
• User_talk:Blast Vortex
  
  

Number of players, remove

• User_talk:SeizureDog
• User_talk:New Age Retro Hippie
• User_talk:RobJ1981
• User_talk:Guyinblack25
• User_talk:Rhonin the wizard
  

Discussion summery so far;

Against Alternate titles in other regions besides US, and UK British territories	For Alternate Titles in other Regions besides US, and UK British territories
Japanese and Non-English region games are not needed on this list.	The Nintendo 64 is a Video Game console it plays N64 games. 'Wild Choppers' is a game for the N64. This is a list of Nintendo 64 games Logically using Reasoning it is expected and necessary for a complete "List of Nintendo 64 Games".
The Japanese titles are completely extraneous, and of no use to any readers. People looking for a particular Japanese title can type it in the search box and be sent directly to the particular game's article page through a redirect.	A Wikipedia article is to be self contained with all the available information in one place and not require a person to go to other articles to find the rest of the information given in a general topic. Wikipedia is not solely for Wikipedians and we must assume that a person coming to these articles has not seen any of the others articles and that the list represents all the N64 games covered on Wikipedia. If a person does not find a listing for 'Wild Choppers', then they come to this page, the logical conclusion is that Wikipedia does not have a article about this game and this would be false, and there would be no reason they would next type the name of the game into the Wikipedia search box.
The only good reason ever presented to include alternate titles has been for readers' convenience, which has never been argued for the Japanese titles. Who is helped by listing their alternative Japanese names? The point is that they are not known in any English regions.	This list does not specify (it is for) American (and UK) only games, with the inclusion of any Japanese titles we are left with Romaji and non-English region games, while some are don't have English in-game text the majority of the 'Titles' are in English, and games like 'Wild Choppers' have been reviewed, and previewed by both names in English territories. From sources like Space World, demos sent to magazines, or magazines importing games to write a review about them. Non-English region N64 titles are present in almost every media. Here's a listing of just some of those for Wild Choppers. Nintendo Power # 92 p28, Nintendo Magazine System #47 p20, Total 64 Magazine #11 p16, 64 Magazine #9 p75, Q64 (magazine) Spring 98 p78, IGN [6] as well as possibly various other magazines and sites that cover such news about games being in production such as GamePro, Game Informer, EGM, Edge (magazine), GameFan. All N64 games are now Post-retail. As with all media and multi-region articles there are always imported games. English speaking regions frequently rent buy and sell these items, and the they get mixed into the culture of that region, then sold with little or no explanation as to where they came from. According to these search engines, import games have nearly as, or more page counts, as N64 games. Shortly after the Japanese launch of the N64, IGN recommended 9 sites where people could get the import games before they reached the USA[7]. And with the small amount of N64 games as compared to other systems and the fact that there are more games imported every year it is necessary that English speaking people do know which games are alternate titles for games released in there region. *That's* how (we) you are benefiting English speakers by including all of these foreign alternate names. Which is why this list and the List of Virtual Boy games seem to be the only two featured 'list of' in Videogames. Search Engines used, January 12th 2009 Google, 736,000 import games, 6,880,000 import videogames, 836,000 N64 games Yahoo, 118,000,000 import games, 17,100,000 import videogames, 33,900,000 N64 games MSN, 15,100,000 import games, 6,700,000 import videogames, 83,600,000 N64 games

(Floppydog66 (talk) 22:09, 12 January 2009 (UTC))

Are you asserting that a list must have all available information? Well, my guess is you will adequately enforce that fake quality guideline for this one thing, but fight against it whenever someone proposes anything more. I guess that means we should add genre, designer, all release dates around the world, series, ESRB rating, Game Rankings/Metacritic scores, awards, etc. Unless you now think that "we must include all available information" is actually a silly proposition. And is there some aspect of reality that forces you to completely ignore me whenever I make my points? Being in another language is not a problem. The only problem is that we are saying "these names, which are of importance to such a small minority of people that it's inestimatable how many people actually need them, need to be included because other names that are of importance to a vast majority of Wikipedia's readers are included". Fairness is not a factor in this discussion EVER. There is no need for titles that are of no use to almost all Wikipedians. That you established that a negligible amount of people may be confused is NOT a reason to make this list grossely large. And why do you keep saying "UK and US territories"? Did Canada and Australia suddenly sink into the ocean overnight?

Alternate names will never be used for anything more than navigation. If there was a need for Japanese titles to be included, you would have said this, not "well it's not fair if you exclude them!", disregarding that there's no such thing as "fairness guidelines". - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 20:39, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

If you or anyone else wish to add genre, designer, all release dates, etc, feel free to add them with proper references. If they are important and necessary, a discussion will then made about them, and a consensus about which we should include will be reached, as with anything on Wikipedia. This article only claims to be a 'List of Games', if it had only their names and nothing more we'd fulfill it's stated purpose. Sorry if I offend you for using U.K. (United Kingdom), I use it in the way I would for all U.S. (United States) Territories also, including District of Columbia. I guess the better description would be British Colonies, or British Empire and could also include places like the Cayman Islands, which might also have the same PAL type system. As for Canada, it also has French as the Official Language, and they may also have some of the French games, but you seemed to mention 'English Titles' most in your concerns. If you feel your 'points' (views) are not shared by everyone, then you should try convince the majority of your point of view with examples, references and facts. (Floppydog66 (talk) 15:27, 15 January 2009 (UTC))

Following the discussion above and it's various talk page links, I finished the updates to the page as per the consensus, with the removal of the Japanese character text, and Alternate Title(s) column being the only major differences, I also removed the ' ' before and after JP and such, since some listings had these and others didn't. All the previous discussions can be reopened, but until more is discussed about them, there seems to be no need of a summery of them for now. (Floppydog66 (talk) 01:56, 31 January 2009 (UTC))

Bulletted sub-lists

Here's the suggestion I made in Talk:Lists of video games#Alternate titles, and columns in Lists of articles: you can use bulletted lists within each column cell to separate discrete data. In effect, the table gains a third dimension. SharkD (talk) 20:54, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

{| class="wikitable sortable" style="font-size:85%;width:100%;"
|-
! style="width:6em;" | Year !! Title !! style="width:8em;" | Developer !! style="width:8em;" | Publisher !! style="width:8em;" | Setting !! style="width:8em;" | Platform !! Notes
|- style="vertical-align: top;" 
| {{vgrtbl-bl|JP|1999|NA|2000}} || {{••}}''[[Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber]]''{{-•}}オウガバトル64 Person of Lordly Caliber{{-•}}Ōga Batoru Rokujūyon Person of Lordly Caliber || {{••}}[[Quest Corporation|Quest]]{{-•}}[[Nintendo]] || {{••}}[[Atlus]] || {{••}}Fantasy || {{••}}N64 || {{••}}Tactical RPG.{{-•}}Sequel to ''[[Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen]]''.
|}

You've got lots of data, though, so you might want to combine columns. SharkD (talk) 21:06, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

{| class="wikitable sortable" style="font-size:85%;width:100%;"
|-
! style="width:6em;" | Year !! Title !! style="width:8em;" | Company !! style="width:8em;" | Data !! Notes
|- style="vertical-align: top;" 
| <b>NA</b>{{-•}}2000{{-}}<b>JP</b>{{-•}}1999 || <b>English</b>{{-•}}''[[Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber]]''{{-}}<b>Japanese</b>{{-•}}オウガバトル64 Person of Lordly Caliber{{-•}}Ōga Batoru Rokujūyon Person of Lordly Caliber || <b>Developer</b>{{-•}}[[Quest Corporation|Quest]]{{-•}}[[Nintendo]]{{-}}<b>Publisher</b>{{-•}}[[Atlus]] || <b>Platform</b>{{-•}}N64{{-}}<b>ESRB/ELSPA</b>{{-•}}Teen{{-}}<b>Players</b>{{-•}}One || <b>Genre</b>{{-•}}Fantasy setting.{{-•}}Tactical RPG.{{-}}<b>Series</b>{{-•}}Sequel to ''[[Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen]]''.
|}

I remember reading in some of the Wikipedia policies that they discouraged Bulleted lists, and preferred tables, but I think that was only on its general subject articles like ROM cartridge and such. I think the bullets would work good in front of the alternate titles since they need to be in the same panel and column as the regular game's title, but I don't think we should bullet every entry in the list. The reason the lists are tabled is so that an person can find the info quickly, and combining Publisher, Developer, Number of Players and such makes the list a bit less useful to the person looking for just that information. Only the info at the head of that panel would be sortable the 'Publisher' info wouldn't be sortable and you'd still have to go from game to game through the list to find the info you need. I've always felt that the "Notes" sections in lists are un-Encyclopediatic much like trivia, where it could also tell of a SNES game and other things like 'Ogre Battle's 3rd game', 'Preceded by', 'Followed by', while others might say 'Uses Goldeneye engine', 'Translated also as', 'Also released for Playstation, Dreamcast' and other such 'Notes'. I'm only in favor of "Notes" if they are used like references, such as in the Rubik's Cube article, where actual reference books are used as references and any links or articles in books mentioning a "List of games" would be put in a second section below references. I try model "List of" to contain the most necessary information much like; "Game Player's Encyclopedia to Nintendo Games", and GamePro's "The Playstation 2 and Playstation Encyclopedia", using that type of table and index charts. For the convenience of any reader that don't have non-alphabetic software, it seems that for now, there has been a consensus not to include text of other countries, but to represent it in standard alphabetic/non-translated form if the alternate name is different then the regular English name. (Floppydog66 (talk) 15:42, 5 April 2009 (UTC))

If there's interest, I could write a script that would enable sorting of such tables. This would involve modifying Wikibits.js, but shouldn't be too hard. Any submissions of this type that don't have broad interest die on Bugzilla, so there's no point if there isn't any interest. I went ahead and started a topic on Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Multi-sortable_tables. If you like the idea, then respond there. SharkD (talk) 02:49, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand how it'd sort things, such as if they wanted it to show all ESRB/ELSPA would this sort the Platform, then click on the sortable button on that column again and it'd re-sort them by ESRB/ELSPA, then click the sortable column again and all the 'Players' in the list would be sorted? I tried clicking on the sort button at the top of each column but nothing seems to happen. It'd also be nice to see what it'd do with the rest of the list, by adding 2 or 3, games to the example so we could see how the arrangement would work. I changed the link you made so it'd point directly to the other discussion I hope you don't mind but it sound like it'd might work, but not sure if there's a Wikipedia policy that the text has to be a certain way, but we might get a better idea with a slightly bigger example. (Floppydog66 (talk) 19:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC))

I haven't written the script yet. That's why it doesn't work. I also don't understand the rest of your post. If you're interested in seeing the script, please reply to the Village pump discussion. SharkD (talk) 01:30, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I added the bulleted portion to the 'alternate titles' but didn't combine the tables seeing how it'd make the list less 'sorter' friendly. It sounds like changing the script would take a bit of work and some editors might not know how to work with it, sadly nobody else seemed to contribute to that discussion, here or the village pump besides me and 'SharkD', and with the -• template, it seems there are two suggestions already that it might need improvement. Without the space after the bullet like; '< br >&bull ;' seems to work just about as well, I didn't want to change the template that someone else worked on, so I left it alone, but if the space after the bullet is needed or wanted I think the template would work nice if its 'br/' was changed. I think it looks a bit better without the space after the bullet, it takes the place of a space so both the alternate title and the main title are at the same distance from the edge of the table. There is now a bullet there to distinguish between the alternate title and simply a continuation of the main title. (Floppydog66 (talk) 14:05, 23 April 2009 (UTC))

Featured list?

I would venture to say that this list definitely no longer meets the standard for featured quality. The genres are unsourced, the ESRB/ELSPA and number of players is unnecessary [and while it stands to possibly poison other lists by people saying "a featured article does this", it thankfully has not spread to many lists], etc. It REALLY needs to figure out what is actually necessary content and what is additional information. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 20:11, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Nice of you to point out those missing sources, I think they helped out alot, but there were already sources for the genres, two of them in fact, before being updated. I still disagree about the other columns and as some of the newer sources show, those are the things that are most needed on these type of lists, in fact the only one that's a pain to reference is the Developer column, since our references for publisher are much better then those of developer the Developer column would probably be the first column to go all together. If anyone else is interested in continuing the discussion please contribute in the new discussion at Wikipedia:Featured list removal candidates/List of Nintendo 64 games/archive1. (Floppydog66 (talk) 05:11, 11 May 2010 (UTC))

Number of North American Exclusives

The text says there are 42 exclusives, whereas searching through the list there are only 34. Can this be changed to 34? Blcklblskt (talk) 16:40, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

• Sorry to take so long, I just cleaned up the 'Regions released' section current totals "84 were exclusive to Japan, 47 to North America, and 4 to Europe." (Floppydog66 (talk) 07:34, 7 November 2010 (UTC))

Waialae Country Club: True Golf Classics

I can't find any online source that says the game has been released in 1997 or in Japan. Does anyone have access to a print source that can confirm its Japanese release? --Mika1h (talk) 15:43, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I think the person who added the game to this list might have confused it with Masters '98: Haruka Naru Augusta, which was released in Japan in 1997 and is a predecessor to Waialae. --Mika1h (talk) 15:47, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

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Double Exclamation Points

TarkusAB Sorry, I didn't realize you made comments in the log history as I was rushing to figure out the solution haha. I noticed the issue and was looking up a fix, but went with the brute force method to solve it. I hope I didn't mess up your fix. Just revert the history if you got it to work out. Thanks! --Bchill53 (talk) 21:27, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Bchill53 No problem, I reverted to the revision with all rows highlighted. Those games now link to redirects and I applied WP:NOWIKI tags around the exclamation points. Nowiki tags are helpful, they display all the text within just as it's written without applying any special Wikipedia formatting. TarkusAB^talk 21:31, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

@TarkusAB: Good fix. :) I was getting *pretty* frustrated using the exact same <nowiki> tags you used with them not working.. I see you put them in piping (I believe that's the term) [ [Wikipedia link|Display name<no wiki in this location means expect no frustration>] ], rather than [ [Game title <no wiki placed with me and you'll have an accidental edit war with TarkusAB] ]. --Bchill53 (talk) 21:34, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Exactly. If you want to experiment, you can remove the piped link and click show preview. You'll see it doesn't work. TarkusAB^talk 22:34, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

2 "Bomberman 64" need to inform their year

2 games with same name using 2 lines, need to put a year in each one in the title — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2804:7F0:E181:7B94:35E9:787D:340E:A53D (talk) 17:02, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

duplicated entry "J. League Live 64"

this can be put together with Fifa Soccer 64 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2804:7F0:E181:7B94:35E9:787D:340E:A53D (talk) 20:32, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

They do not share the same save data (and different numbers of pages in use), they do not share the same game code serial, they have completely different menus and music. Further removal of games need to be done with considerable care. If J. League Live 64 and Jikkyou World Soccer 3 are removed - so should NFL Blitz: Special Edition and Clay Fighter: Sculptor's Cut. The list of 388 games is already highly condensed and simplified: You removed Jikkyou World Soccer 3 based on an inaccurate GameFAQs source that didn't even mention Jikkyō J-League Perfect Striker which was released in 1996 and was the first version that later became International Superstar Soccer 64. Jikkyou World Soccer 3 is an enhanced edition of ISS64, no different than NFL Blitz: Special Edition. 167.88.20.146 (talk) 09:59, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Issues regarding Brazilian releases

There seems to be some contention whether the NTSC version of "F1 Racing Championship" even exists. A fellow Wikipedian removed the mention of its NTSC release in Brazil, claiming that it was a "repro" (reproduction) "romhack", citing a source I cannot find. I tried to correct that issue, but the user appears to defensive.

Gradiente (previously Playtronic) had a legitimate contract with Nintendo to distribute Nintendo products in Brazil. The NES and SNES were distributed by them starting in 1993, and the N64 was distributed after the merger with Gradiente. According to Nintendo64Ever, there were 135 Nintendo 64 games released in Brazil, most of them exact copies of US games. A few Acclaim titles such as South Park and Shadow Man were specifically translated for the Brazilian market.

F1 Racing Championship was first released in PAL regions, and was apparently never released in the US. However, there are existing boxed copies that bear the Gradiente name. The game is in English, as it was never translated. It seems a US version was planned and submitted to Nintendo by Ubi Soft. This was not a ROM hack or "reproduction". Gradiente simply secured the rights to distribute a version of the game that ultimately did not see release in the US market.

I reinstated the original mention of "NTSC BR" in the region column of F1 Racing Championship and would recommend it not be removed for such unsubstantiated reasons as "romhack" or "reproduction". Allow this message to serve as documentation for any senior editors. If the edit is to be removed, there should be an agreement that information pertaining to Brazillian releases should be excluded in this article.

Other entries in the list with a similar situation are the PAL versions of Snowboard Kids 2 and StarCraft 64, which were only released in Australia. These are denoted by PAL^AUS. Perhaps a similar notation can be done for NTSC games only released in Brazil, such as NTSC^BRA.

45.72.208.121 (talk) 11:17, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Exact release dates for U.S. and Japanese N64 titles?

Would this be possible to implement? It was done for both List of PlayStation games articles. MightyArms (talk) 15:00, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

The current list is based on simplifying and grouping games together. Rather than give actual release dates, a single year is provided (which can be inaccurate, such as if the Japanese versions of the game was released in a previous year than the US/PAL versions that are the main focus). Thus in order to add full release dates for all regional versions, the 388 game list would need to be abandoned, and we would need to ungroup variant titles such as Super Mario 64: Shindou Edition and HSV Adventure Racing as separate items on the list. I would support it because more data means people are less likely to make erroneous and subjective edits based on inaccurate information. 167.88.20.146 (talk) 10:09, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

I would recommend using the List of GameCube games and List of Xbox games as a template. They list the initial release date for the game, followed by the specific release dates in Japan, North America, and Europe. Example:

Title	Genre	Developer(s)	Publisher(s)	Release date
				JP	NA	PAL
Super Mario 64	Platform game	Nintendo EAD	Nintendo	June 23, 1996	September 26, 1996	March 1, 1997
Mario Kart 64	Kart racing video game	Nintendo EAD	Nintendo	December 14, 1996	February 10, 1997	June 24, 1997
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time	Action-adventure game	Nintendo EAD	Nintendo	November 21, 1998	November 23, 1998	December 11, 1998
Super Smash Bros.	Fighting video game	HAL Laboratory	Nintendo	January 21, 1999	April 26, 1999	November 19, 1999

How does this look? MightyArms (talk) 17:50, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

388 or 387?

First line says there are 388 games and later it says "387 releases, 83 were exclusive to Japan, 42 to North America, and 4 to Europe". Someone with the time needs to do a recount.--Remurmur (talk) 15:41, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Someone added a 388th title called Logo Maker 64 but I couldn't find any info online about it, might be a freeware or something, but the only link I found was "Logo Maker" as a 64 bit download, and that didn't seem to have anything to do with the N64. If it was released by Infogrames, as it was listed here, and if it was made for the N64, it'd probably be a developer program, and more of a accessory program for creating games rather then a game that was released for the N64. (Floppydog66 (talk) 03:17, 14 May 2009 (UTC))

An IP has recently requested a citation for the number 387. Looks kind of bad having a citation request on a featured article. I'm having trouble finding a reliable source, can anyone fix this? Freikorp (talk) 07:21, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

There are exactly 387 games in the current list (not including the cancelled title at the bottom which I don't think should even be there). I'd probably do it wrong if I try to add this but there's 1 game missing which would make it 388: '64 Trump Collection - Alice no Wakuwaku Trump World'. (Also there's at least 21 games with the wrong year, compared to what it says on the games Wiki page itself).86.160.3.55 (talk) 21:10, 5 September 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.160.3.55 (talk) 20:52, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

"Of the console's 389 official releases, 196 are region-locked to Japan, 296 to North America, and 242 to Europe."

The math makes no sense to me.

389-196=193... 193<296 and 193<242 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.211.192.3 (talk) 16:30, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

If anyone is curious or confused as to why there are 393 games instead of 388, which was long established, it is due to these six entries:

Note: Due to the splitting of Michael Own's WLS 2000 and Mia Hamm Soccer 64, N+P+J list changed from 97 to 96.

Super Mario 64 Shindō Pak Taiō Version	Japan	Special edition of Super Mario 64, with Rumble Pak support
Wave Race 64 Shindō Pak Taiō Version	Japan	Special edition of Wave Race 64, with Rumble Pak support
Super Speed Race 64	Japan	The same game as Automobili Lamborghini but renamed and updated with extra features
Michael Owen's WLS 2000 RTL World League Soccer Telefoot Soccer	Europe	The same game, but reskinned for different regions
Mia Hamm Soccer 64	North America	The same game as WLS 2000, but released under a different publisher a year later
HSV Adventure Racing	Australia	The same game as Beetle Adventure Racing, but rebranded for HSV in Australia

This is a problem because these choices are arbitrary and inconsistent. Why are cherry picking specific games to ungroup? A case could be made that the WLS 2000 games be split up as individual entries. Another case could be made that International Superstar Soccer and the "Perfect Striker" games be split up, citing noticeable differences. This subdividing can go on forever, until each region and even revision, has it's own entry.

This Wikipedia article is not suited to be a verbose resource for all known variants of a Nintendo 64 game, rather, it is intended to be a list of unique games, where variants of the same game are grouped together. I don't see a reason these games should have their own entry, and not others.

The criteria should be: Is each game fundamentally and sufficiently different? Is this more than a re-release, re-skin or slight upgrade?

Of course, that's subjective and there are counter-arguments. NFL Blitz and NFL Blitz: Special Edition have long been considered different, despite one essentially being an upgraded version. However, the Special Edition was released 3 years later. Another example could be ClayFighter 63, and the "Sculptor's Cut" version, which was released only 6 months after, but was expanded on so much that they had to increase the ROM size and changed the entire menu system.

In my opinion, we should stick to convention because otherwise it will cause confusion as to why things don't match up. It's been long established that there are 296 NTSC-U games, 242 PAL games, and 196 NTSC-J games, which combined are 388 games across all regions.

Special editions and variants of a 'base' game, should be grouped under it. There has to be a very good reason to stray, and some re-skinned or re-released games don't count. Many games already have subtle regional differences which don't warrant them being considered separate games. Just because HSV Adventure Racing couldn't use the Beetle license, doesn't mean it is a different game.

45.72.217.197 (talk) 22:40, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Rally '99 and Rally Challenge 2000

Should these really be considered separate games? The stated differences on the Rally Challenge 2000 page are "minor graphical changes, English and title screen with the Year 2000". This sounds like standard localisation to me rather than a separate entity. It feels like they are being treated as separate entities due to the year difference being confused as a Madden-style year-on-year series rather than a reflection of the periods between localisation which were standard at the time. GameFAqs also treats it as the same release. AnOrdinaryBoy (talk) 01:38, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

No, they should be considered the same game. It's just a re-skin with a new name. It was probably intended to be a Japan-exclusive, but Southpeak acquired the rights and published it in the US. The same publisher also brought WLS 2000 to the US under the name "Mia Hamm Soccer". Adding to the confusion, they changed the product code from NUS-NRA*-*** to NUS-NWQ*-***. Rather than just change the region, they changed the entire game identifier code. 45.72.217.197 (talk) 23:49, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

EMAP verifiability

Does anyone have scans of these EMAP sources? It appears to be the source for the PAL dates but without any identifiers is quite inaccessible. czar 02:26, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

I'm removing these. I'm not convinced they're real. They have incomplete citations, were added with a bunch of junk sources in 2014, and have no mention in major search engines apart from Wikipedia mirrors. Feel free to restore if you can produce a fuller ciation. czar 02:55, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Japanese Title Translations

I have translated all of the titles for the Japanese games. Would it be acceptable to replace the romaji titles with English translations, given the fact that the romaji titles mean very little for most readers?14.8.68.2 (talk) 02:43, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

I would say no. 1) Translations can vary/be open to interpretation since it is never an exact science. 2) They are unestablished, and so can be unrecognizable to those who are familiar with the game. Transliterations is a logical and accepted convention accepted across many English articles, and the best option besides using the direct Japanese text (which is even less readable by non-Japanese speakers). Also, most Japanese people can read romaji just fine. So in short, romanji is the most correct way to represent these titles barring an official English title and source thereof (which often times does not exist). 45.72.205.147 (talk) 16:05, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

New layout for "Regions" table?

The table that shows how many games were released in each region could also look like this (sort of like a Venn diagram):

		JP total: 196
		JP only: 85
	JP&US only: 11		JP&PAL only: 3
		JP&US&PAL: 97
	US only: 50		PAL only: 4
US total: 296		US&PAL only: 138		PAL total: 242

Qalle2 (talk) 17:09, 18 September 2022 (UTC)