Talk:List of LGBT-related films directed by women/Archive 2

Bound

Bound is a 1996 film. Larry Wachowski came out as transgender in 2012 and Andrew Wachowski in 2016. That's 16 and 20 years, respectively, after they directed the film — while they were still males. Therefore, including Bound in this list is inaccurate information. Pyxis Solitary talk 22:46, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's a good point, and a key element is your phrase, "came out." It could well be that -- like many LGBT people -- they didn't publicly acknowledge their gender identity for many years after they internally knew what their authentic selves were. In 1996 they were indeed living as males. This is worthy of further study, as this is analogous to calling a closeted gay man "straight" because he hasn't "come out" yet. In the case of the Wachowskis, I don't know when they knew, internally, they were women. I agree with you that they lived as men at the time Bound came out, and in the absence of other information about the they timing of their self-awareness of their gender identity, Bound should be struck from the list for the time being. GetSomeUtah (talk) 08:58, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I hope we never consider the timing of self-awareness as a marker in deciding who is or isn't a woman (or vice versa) for a list such as this one. For all of us in the LGBT community there's the past, the present, and the future. Btw, creating this list was a great idea. Pyxis Solitary talk 11:50, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I want to be clear that I would never dare to decide who's male or female. I'm simply drawing from my experience of happening to know a transgender male who looks back on his past and would not consider himself to have ever been a woman, regardless of what biology said he was born as. I don't know how the Wachowskis feel about their respective pasts. But I could imagine them saying something analogous--that they were born women, but into the wrong bodies, and they knew it early on. This is probably a deeper discussion than is needed for a simple list, but it presents some interesting challenges when we limit ourselves to a binary list. Anyway, I appreciate your help in keeping the list accurate and in keeping it up with the MOS. Regards, GetSomeUtah (talk) 21:14, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

FYI: Link to film poster with billing: Bound. Notice how director is credited at the bottom: Written and Directed by The WACHOWSKI BROTHERS. Pyxis Solitary yak 11:48, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No question about that, and it doesn't change or negate what I said above. Their more recent films credit them as "The Wachowskis." No need to go full bold caps. It's quite simply a grievous offense to misgender them as well as a violation of fundamental human rights. GetSomeUtah (talk) 13:37, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You do realize that I made an addendum to my own comment, right? That it was deliberately not positioned as a response to anything you had to say.

"No need to go full bold caps". Unless it's a violation of Wikipedia policy, I suggest that you stop lecturing other editors on how they choose to express their comments.

What matters in this webopedia is that we abide by its rules. And Wikipedia does have rules. Here's the one for adding names to a film infobox:

Template:Infobox film#Credits: "Credits in the infobox should not be retrospectively altered to accommodate name changes at a later date. A person should be credited by the name they were using professionally at the time the film was made."

For the purpose of a list about women directors: "If it looked like a male, swam like a male, and quacked like a male ... it was male." Regardless of what came after-the-fact. "The Wachowskis" were not working under the professional name of "The Wachowskis" when they billed their own film. Pyxis Solitary yak 13:19, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not gonna read it. It has nothing to do with the facts of the film that was released in 1996. Pyxis Solitary yak 13:19, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't argue with strangers on the internet. You can have the last word. I'm out. Best regards. GetSomeUtah (talk) 21:20, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]