Talk:List of Hollows in Bleach/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

DDR

Any information about the two girls who served Kusaka in the DiamondDust Rebellion? The movie's page lists says their arrancar and I believe it so it should probably be mentioned here 86.45.74.154 (talk) 00:30, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

We're not in the practice of listing movie-only characters until List of Bleach antagonists gets created. 209.244.43.185 (talk) 16:14, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

We're not going to be in the practice of listing them then either, minor non-canonical characters don't get mentioned in the lists. --erachima talk 12:24, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

word Suigetsu 00:06, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Pinsa Guda

The true name of Findor's Zanpakuto is "Pinza Aguda", Pinsaguda doesn't means anything in spanish, I know because i am spanish xD.--83.97.214.37 (talk) 12:21, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Hueco Mundo

I just realized this list doesn't mention Hueco Mundo at all, at least not like the Soul Reaper page mentions Soul Society as their base world. I think it deserves a mention somewhere in the introduction that Hollows and Arrancars are based there when they're not feeding in the human world, or wreacking havoc in the case of the Arrancars, and maybe a few distinctive characteristics like the vast desert, the never-ending night and the extremely massive building called Las Noches. I think Rukia said Hueco Mundo is in between Soul Society and the human world, but I don't remember exactly. Any thoughts? Akke Bandvagn (talk) 19:08, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

We previously had an article on the place, so you could try checking the old revisions of the Hueco Mundo page for mergeable content. However, I'm not sure how much coverage it needs beyond the stuff already given in the main article. --erachima talk 19:23, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

You're right, the main article covers it pretty nicely. How about a mention here with a link? I think it needs to be mentioned just to make things clear. You can never be too clear when describing things^^ Akke Bandvagn (talk) 20:02, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm working on a rewrite of the intro and the arrancar description and I'm wondering if I should include a few general arrancar techniques/abilities in their section such as sonido, bala and gran rey cero(?), perhaps a mention about their hierro as well, since no ordinary hollow have been seen using them. Just a thought since the basic cero is described in the intro, but I won't bother with it if it'll just get deleted for weight reasons. Akke Bandvagn (talk) 13:33, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Just cero is fine. The other miscellaneous abilities don't come up often enough to matter. ~SnapperTo 17:34, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I'll skip them then. Just... the hierro too? It's arrancar-specific and allows even the weaker ones to fight swords bare-handed. Though it might just be me liking trivia facts... Akke Bandvagn (talk) 19:17, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I have no problems with a generic statement about arrancar's increased speed and resistance to damage. Going into detail about why/how that is so and to what extent (not damaged by attack X, but bleeds from attack Y) would be bordering on triviality. ~SnapperTo 19:32, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not that into trivia, at least not here, so you don't have to worry too much^^ There, finally, I spent two evenings hunting down references, facts and kanji, mulling over the phrasing to make it as out-of-universe as I could. I even had a friend of mine that doesn't read/watch Bleach proof-read it and she said it was clear and easy to understand, so I think it's paid off. It kinda makes me proud since this was my first really major wikiedit -pats self on shoulder- Akke Bandvagn (talk) 18:58, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Pictures

not that i'm hating or anything, but do people really need to have so many pictures of the espada, especially when we have the group pictures?--Sanji_1990 (talk) 02:02, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Abilities

Is there a section for Hollow abilities or do we have to guess? I understand that this is a list of all the current hollows, but is there a seperate list of their abilities or, like I said, do we have to assume that they are all revolving aroung cero? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.52.249.25 (talk) 00:33, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

List of hollows in Bleach#Arrancar covers a few others. Other than that there are no other hollow abilities currently detailed on Wikipedia. ~SnapperTo 01:36, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I think most all other abilities not listed are either character specific or not used frequently enough/noteworthy enough to be listed. Shunpo isn't mentioned on the Soul Reaper page so Sonido isn't mentioned here, Bala and Gran Rey Cero aren't used too often and are covered as variants of the cero, though not by name. Any noteworthy character specific ability are listed under that character. Do we need any more than that? Akke Bandvagn (talk) 18:15, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

In addition to that, many of the "recurring" abilities for hollows and Soul Reapers only exist as a matter of necessity. Without high speed movement, resistance to fatal attacks, and the ability to sense another's location, Bleach would have a much slower (and likely undesirable given its target audience) pace. ~SnapperTo 23:36, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

I have one. In the spanish version of this article, all abilities are cited frecuently.

¿Is this necesary to post? I don´t know.--MagnusLordN (talk) 21:03, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Ggio Vega

I have to say one more time that Vega's zanpakuto true name is "Tigre Estoque", this is the correct way to call it in Spain.--83.97.213.159 (talk) 16:01, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! I was trying to figure it out for a while now. They had on here "Tigres Toque" and I knew that wasn't right, but I couldn't figure it out. Kangarugh22 (talk) 16:49, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Why is Ggio's gender being auto-confirmed as female? Until I read that I thought they were male too (The lack of breasts admittedly made me think this). They could just be another effeminate male, take Yumichika for example, they were drawn very female-looking to start with. The comment 'Geg' made after Kangarugh22 changed it to a non-gender-specific version, which was along the lines of 'Looks nothing like a male' can't be taken seriously either, lets not forget, a lot of people auto-confirmed Nel Tu as a boy until it was proven otherwise. It's like another Haku case. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 20:44, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

This isn't as bad as Haku, really. Geg is right, she doesn't look anything like a male. Oh, and Nell was never auto-confirmed as a boy. Suigetsu 02:02, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

I said people, I didn't mean that Wikipedia put her as male straight away. Looking back at the archives you can see people believed Nel to be male. That is all I meant, I'll just say that until Kubo puts otherwise, we shouldn't really put a gender, I mean with Barragan's other fraccion it was kind of easy to work out their genders but Ggio really does just look effeminate and like I said, they lack breasts, even Soi Fon manages to show her own basic outline of them. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 03:41, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Since there's disagreement concerning Ggio's gender, I hope it's a sufficient solution to just write the entry without any gender related pronouns for now. I tried not to overuse the character's given name, since English lacks non-gender specific pronouns, save "it", which is usually for inanimate objects. 24.84.218.226 (talk) 23:13, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

"Japanese for x?"

I just have a question about the terminology for the release names. When an arrancar's release is listed, it is usually in the form of "(zanpakto name), Spanish for x, Japanese for y". Is this really accurate? Is Tite Kubo an authority for how spanish words are translated into Japanese? I always figured it was like Viz renaming "cero" to "Doom Blast". Cero doesn't mean "Doom Blast" in English, its simply labelled as that within the context of the manga. Unless I'm missing something, it seems like it would be more accurate to change the format to "(zanpakto name), Spanish for x, labelled/rendered/referred to as y."

If I'm not making sense, I'm sorry. As an example, if a spanish-speaker were to go to Japan and see a praying mantis, he might say "Santa Teresa." I don't think a japanese-speaking person who overheard him would translate that to "Sacred Crying Mantis." If I'm mistaken then please explain, because I simply thought these translations were used only in Bleach. Thanks!

71.203.182.112 (talk) 16:57, 26 October 2008 (UTC)Turk

There are two components to all hollow-related things: the kanji and the kana. Each individual kanji has its own definition; Cero's kanji are 虚 = "hollow" and 閃 = "flash". This produces the Japanese translation of "hollow flash". The kana are pronunciation guides; Cero's kana are セ = se and セ = ro. When put together sero sounds like cero, Spanish for "zero". So ends what I'm able to learn from Google. That said, I don't think Spanish speakers would have problems with their Japanese hosts finding higher meanings in what they say (unless they run into a Bleach fan that is already familiar with the terms). ~SnapperTo 18:59, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure how a Spanish-speaking person would take to using their language in that way, but if it was being used incorrectly then I say we should take it off of Wikipedia. That said, your explanation of the kanji and its meanings, along with the kana pronunciations clear up the questions I had. Now that you've explained it, it makes a lot more sense. Thanks! 71.203.182.112 (talk) 19:25, 26 October 2008 (UTC)Turk

By "problem", I mean nobody in Japan is going to know what they're saying. They might recognize it as Spanish, but there'd still be a language barrier preventing proper communication. ~SnapperTo 19:36, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

In the least, I feel that the "Japanese for x" should be explained somewhere in the article or, preferably, simply omitted. The actual words are always Japanese approximations of Spanish nouns, so the Spanish translations are sufficient. The actual Kanji usually has roughly the same meaning anyway (although the translation pairs in the article are slightly different in each case, it's a semantics issue). As stated before, the actual pronunciation carries no meaning in Japanese as far as I know, so why confuse readers who are unfamiliar with the Japanese writing system?

Anime Only characters should stay (not just for this subject, but for others as well)

Why is the manga chars the only things worth mentioning? you'll see when there is an anime where certain characters are only available in the manga version only. You want people coming to wikipedia less and other wikias of that subject more? you think anime only charicter aren't worth mentioning? That's like Ulquiorra stating that Ichigo isn't worth killing! Give the bounts back their article (or at least put the names of all of them in the list). As for the arrancar, now that you elimenated the Espada article, Give back the articles of Grimmjow and Ulquiorra. Plus, I don't think Barragan's fraccion shouldn't be mentioned at all other than their names on Barragan's review. Also, Put the names of the Anime only Arrancar (Patros, Menis, and the other guy I don't remember because you removed him, and I won't learn it if I don't go to the BLEACH Wiki, which is something I don't want to go to) back in!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.45.126.186 (talk) 03:50, 3 November 2008

I'm still too new on Wikipedia to know all the rules and policies and what qualifies as what, but I'm pretty sure we're not excluding anime-only characters because they're anime-only, they're just not notable enough, I think. Meaning we should also exclude a lot of the minor manga characters that only appear in one, two or three chapters. For some reason I'm not familiar with, those characters have all gotten a little sub-section of their own. As a fan of the series I can't complain about it, but as a neutral editor I must say minor, non-notable characters don't really deserve so much space, unfortunately. It'd be a pity to remove them, yes, but what can we do? Notability is a rather important Wiki policy after all.

And would it kill you to be a little nicer? Akke Bandvagn (talk) 18:47, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

It's a mix of WP:N and WP:UNDUE. 207.80.142.5 (talk) 19:26, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Problem is, I don't read much manga and only see more anime. So can you really blame a guy? Plus, I'd rather see them on Wikipedia than a dumb BLEACH Wiki.

Oh, and the fact that I was foul is because I like to go to Uncyclopedia website to see the humor, but I don't like it's low usage of Anime (as well as it's disgusting parodies of anime articles).

Also, without the Espada article, Grimmjow and Uquiorra deserve theirs back (yeah, I know there are arrancar who don't need their own articles, but I think that these two do). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.45.97.228 (talk) 02:50, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

No, I can't blame you for wanting to know more, it's just that we can't include anything we like on Wikipedia. And liking satire and parodies is not an excuse to be uncivil and blatantly offensive, and insulting the editors who are working hard to improve this article according to Wikipedia's standards isn't going to get you the results you want. As for the Espada, Grimmjow and Ulquiorra articles I can't say anything since those were merged before I got engaged in this page, but I'm guessing it was for notability and sourcing reasons. Akke Bandvagn (talk) 14:27, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Even so, I despise the fact that I have to go to another Wiki to learn more information about that subject, because they overdo it with articles (such as anything mentionable in that series gets it's own article), so I don't like it. Plus, it's confusing as opposed to a fairer Wikipedia. I just don't like wikias that are dedicated to that one series!

Suggestion for article reorganization and omission of info for fracción

As the issue of notability for minor characters like the fracción came up I've been thinking of trimming their subsections down to the necessary minimum, if we are to keep them at all. It also made me think of reorganizing the article so that the fracción are listed under the one they serve/d instead of being lumped together in the "others" section, like I've done here. It seems more logical to me, but I want to know what everyone else thinks before I start making major changes. Akke Bandvagn (talk) 16:03, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Feel free to edit it here.Tintor2 (talk) 16:36, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

I'd think that would promote adding more information, requiring regular recondensation. Either use prose to describe all the fracción in one paragraph, or don't mention them at all beyond "Barragan has six fracción". ~SnapperTo 21:57, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

So I should stick all six fracción into the same paragraph with some minor description like is already done on the subpage(build and mask fragment)? That means I should do the same with Grimmjow's fracción since they're about as notable as Barragan's. Can Grand Fisher, Rudobone, Wonderweiss, Dondochakka and Pesche be left as they are or should I minimize any of their subsections too? Akke Bandvagn (talk) 15:10, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Just characteristics central to the character should suffice: Cuuhlhourne is fugly, thinks otherwise, and is defeated by Yumichika; Abirama can turn into a bird and is killed by Kira; Findor has a crab arm, gains power by removing his mask, and is killed by Shūhei. And so on in that fashion. Grimmjow's crew would see the same treatment, though I'm reluctant to call them fracción. All the other arrancar should be fine as they are. ~SnapperTo 22:59, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I can't seem to condense the fracción character info without making the paragraph bulky, so I skipped it entirely and just listed their names. And it'd actually border on OR to call Shawlong & co fracción since they're never referred to as such, they might as well have followed Grimmjow just because they respect him or something like that. So what should we call them instead? Fighters, followers, companions, minions, subordinates?

Also, I can't find a snug space to fit in Tesla's mention into Nnoitra's subsection, might someone feel inclined to help me? Akke Bandvagn (talk) 17:54, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

What you've got now for Grimmjow's band of miscreants is fine. As for Tesla, just add "His sole fracción, Tesla, idolizes Nnoitra and models himself in Nnoitra's image" to the first paragraph. And you should drop all the boldface before replacing the article with your version. ~SnapperTo 20:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

The boldface for the fracción names I assume? Why? As far as I know all names are bolded the first time they're mentioned, or is something else coming into play here? And should I keep the kana in that case? Akke Bandvagn (talk) 21:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

All the boldface. It needlessly draws the eye's attention and isn't used in other lists (see List of Bleach characters for one example). ~SnapperTo 04:28, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Hah, hadn't noticed that. Okay, I'll do away with all the boldface, anything else I should think of before I do the replacement? Akke Bandvagn (talk) 14:37, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Feel encouraged to trim what is there. Nnoitra, for example, has a monstrously long entry. ~SnapperTo 05:02, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay, did the replacement. I hope I didn't trim Nnoitra's article too much... Akke Bandvagn (talk) 11:42, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Good work ^_^.Tintor2 (talk) 12:31, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I worked hard to make it as good as possible! Akke Bandvagn (talk) 13:49, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

It does indeed look good. Just a quick two questions, was the fact that Kenpachi killed Nnoitra deliberately or mistakingly left out? All the other deaths of the arrancar have been left in so I just wondered why Nnoitra was a special case. Secondly, with the top three being put in order of introduction, is that them first talking or them first being seen? Because a glimpse of Halibel can be seen at the start of Vol 23 chapter 198. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 06:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Nnoitra's death was one of the many things I deleted to shorten his subsection, but I must admit I didn't think very hard on it. I'll reinsert it since you pointed out the oddity of it. As for the top-three Espada I really don't know anything about the order since people have been moving them up and down every now and then, and I haven't bothered to double-check the exact order of introduction. I could go through the manga and fix it if it bothers you though. Akke Bandvagn (talk) 16:24, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh no, you misunderstand. I was just trying to help with the section, it's not that it bothers me I was just adding a little more facts to it. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 19:34, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't bother me either, in my opinion the top-three can be in any order until we know their numbers, I don't think anyone here really cares whether Barragan, Halibel or Stark is listed first. It'd be nice if we could confirm the exact order of introduction but a lot of people seem to think Barragan is #1 and as such lists him first and I have a feeling they're going to be obstinate about it if we decide to change the order, so whatever. I think the current order is fine as it is. Akke Bandvagn (talk) 20:05, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Why was the Numeros removed?

As title- why were the numeros- like those that came with grimmjaw to the real world- removed? I looked over all the archived and didn't see this discussed. Icel21m (talk) 08:50, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

They're most all minor characters and as such barely deserves a mention here, though Shawlong & co got stuffed into Grimmjow's section at the reorganization I did a month ago but then someone deleted them entirely for being too minor or something. I don't see why they can't be mentioned by name as Grimmjow's followers but I haven't had the energy to do anything about it yet. Akke Bandvagn 14:27, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

because wikipedia sucks shit and anything that is deemed "not notable" like the numeros is deleted while it's perfectly ok to have mile long articles on obscure characters that appeared in a simpsons episode for 3 minutes. instead of being an encyclopedia it's more like an index of fail. notability is the cancer killing wikipedia Darfjono (talk) 03:51, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

List of Arrancar?

It is kinda stupid to have this article called list of hollows now that there is only 1 hollow against, like, 30 Arrancar.

Not to mention the hollow in question is Bawabawa! Man, how can all the Fracción don't get their own part on the article but Bawabawa get? So just delete the Bawabawa section (add two words about him in Dondochaka's paragraph) and rename it as "List of Arrancar in Bleach". It makes much more sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.209.170.99 (talk) 13:52, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Now that Bawabawa is gone, this does seem like a more likely name for them, but since a description of hollows is required due to a previous AFD whose archive is lingering around somewhere in the bowels of Wikipedia, the change is not really necessary... yet. Sasuke9031 (talk) 05:46, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Nnoitra

Is it notable that he believes himself to have the toughest hierro out of the current Espada? I noticed that Zommari's section contains his belief he has the fasted sonído, so should Nnoitra's section contain his own view of his hierro? DaisukeVulgar (talk) 03:11, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I suppose it makes sense to re-include it since it's stated at least once, maybe twice, I don't rememeber, and it plays a certain role as Chad's attack was useless. I admit I didn't think that far when I trimmed his section, but I don't see why you can't put it back in. Akke Bandvagn 15:09, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Ok then, just checking before I re-added just to see it deleted once more. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 17:10, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Release Commands

Why have they all been taken out...? Kangarugh22 (talk) 15:57, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Wasn't seen as important information for both Shinigami and Arrancar, now that Kubo has repeated one or two. I believe. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 04:22, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Wrong Reference

Chapter 284 has nothing to do with Hitsugaya's comment on vasto lordes and the like; I can't change the reference section to delete that reference either... Someone else do it for me? Expo377 (talk) 11:43, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

The reference to chapter 284 is there to verify the whole section about hollow evolution, not Hitsugaya's statement which is in chapter 197. If you think it's in an inappropriate place then move it, but please don't delete it. Akke Bandvagn 12:01, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Spoiler for 339

I went ahead and ordered the Espada by their rank according to the chapter that's not yet translated, however I did not explicitly state their ranks, since it's generally taboo to spoil chapters on wiki before they're even out. By the way, how do I leave a signature/timestamp after a comment (when I'm logged in)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.62.154.71 (talk) 11:58, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Raw is out. It's official; Stark is number one, Barragan is two, and Hallibel is three. 68.90.163.180 (talk) 16:05, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

It's nice to finally know their numbers, and you sign by typing four tildes(~) regardless of whether you're logged in or not. Akke Bandvagn 19:56, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

with regards to the espadas ranking, is it fine for you guys to number them with female substantives even if they're male? or is it because it says so in the manga? Rcmtiongson (talk) 13:37, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Well with Grimmjow it's already known by Viz's official translation that he's known as the 'Sexta' Espada, not the 'Sexto'. Every translation I've seen for Stark has him saying 'Primera' too. It may be unknown until more volumes are translated officially, but they've used a female substantive already so we're going by that for now. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 18:09, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

'Espada' is a feminine word, thus it'd be correct to use the feminine version of the number preceeding it. It's the same principle that decides whether to use 'las' or 'los' before pluralized words, and as such it doesn't matter whether the person it's about is male or female. Akke Bandvagn 14:38, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

The only masculine one we've had is Ulquiorra's "Cuatro Espada." the rest are all feminine: primera, sexta, octava, novena. 70.138.167.143 (talk) 05:57, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

It's 'Cuatro' depending on the translator, just like some translators have put 'Primero' and others have put the correct 'Primera'. But I'm sure Viz will make it 'Cuatra' because as Akke said, 'Espada' is a feminine word. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 06:10, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Nel's amnesia

...Seriously, what gave you the idea that she lost her memory again?

"As she is about to defeat Nnoitra, Nel reverts back to her child form, with no apparent memory of what had just occurred."

Could you point me to the page where it is shown that she loses her memory, or remove this memory loss if erroneous? --198.109.39.34 (talk) 01:37, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

After she changes back, Nel states roughly "Huh.. What is going on?" - Bleach chapter 296 - Page 19

This can be interpreted both ways, of course. The way she turns her head implies she is confused that she is in that spot, not that she's confused she turned back. That is why "apparent" is a keyword in that sentence. It appears that she's lost the memory of what has happened once more. Until she's shown again, IF she is shown again, the above quote will be taken as she's retained no memories of reverting back into her 'Neliel' older form. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 02:18, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

When she reverts back the first thing she says is "n-noitra", and whenshe woke up, she said that.

its not that she lost memories of what she did, she just had no idea of whats going on in that situation, so how can it be possible she lost memories? she fought noitra and lost, when she wakes up noitra is gone and ichigo is locked in hueco mundo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.249.176.77 (talk) 15:43, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

She knew Nnoitra's name beforehand, so I'm not sure that proves anything. Still, saying she's confused about the situation might be appropriate until there's more definitive evidence one way or the other. ~SnapperTo 20:40, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Ability section

I'm not really against it but I want to question the necessity of an abilities section which mostly consists of minor abilities. Akke Bandvagn 18:00, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. This is starting to become a miniature copy of Hollow (Bleach), which was deleted for, among other reasons, being a list of abilities that are of negligible significance. I've reverted the Abilities and Resurrección sections back to when they were just part of the Arrancar section. ~SnapperTo 19:14, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Cirucci's outfit unusual?

how is cirucci's outfit unusual? it looks like Lolita to me. I suggest someone edit's that because it sounds like someone doesn't like her outfit and used his/her bias opinion on wiki.

i mean, have you seen other arrancars like halibel? her outfit is outrageously revealing yet no one says its unusual.

fix it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.249.176.77 (talk) 15:53, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Ulquiorra Schiffer

In the section on Ulquiorra it said that he believed in 'absolute materialism' and then supported this by pointing out that in the manga he 'has stated that what his eye cannot see does not exist'. However, this would make him at immaterialist/subjective idealist. I don't recall anywhere in the manga him actually being referred to as a 'materialist' so I went ahead and changed it to subjective idealist. --Diehl1am 01:26, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

his release has already been printed. bind... murcielago. murcielago meaning "bat" in spanish. were he turns into a bat like creature... there goes my image of a mighty vasto lorde...Rcmtiongson (talk) 10:25, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Maybe they have winged Vasto Lordes? I expect this information will not be added into the article until proper screens of the issue Ulquiorra releases his release are put online. Evilgidgit (talk) 12:52, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Ulquiorra's release...

His zanpakutō, Murciélago (黒翼大魔 (ムルシエラゴ), Murushierago?, Japanese for "giant black winged demon," Spanish for "bat") when released creates two giant wings on Ulquiorra's back, his hair becoming longer and more feral as his hollow helmet centers atop his head, sporting two large horns, giving him the appearance of a vampire. His arrancar outfit also appears more form fitting at the top, becoming robe-like towards the bottom. He is also shown to have the ability to create elongated spikes to use as weapons in combat.

If his release is truly shown in the manga or at least confirmed by Tite Kubo himself, please add a reference point. Excuse the skepticism, but I've never come across anything having to do with the appearance or description of Ulquiorra's release form in the manga. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xade76 (talk • contribs)

Then you've obviously not read the latest chapter, Bleach 345. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 06:46, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

There, added a reference to the exact chapter and page it shows, just like all the other arrancars who has released so far. Akke Bandvagn 13:03, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Aw jeez. Well, thanks for posting a reference. I really should have noticed something major like that... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xade76 (talk • contribs) 05:06, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Ulqiorra Cero

Should there be a reference to Ulquiorra new cero since he said is the true cero or something among those lines. an what is the correct name for it? 209.183.55.47 (talk) 00:47, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Firstly, it's called "Cero Oscuras" or at least that is what the first translations have dubbed it, and secondly, it's not exclusively Ulq's. He even states it's "An Espada's fully powered cero." This is basically saying anyone of Espada level can do it. It should and is covered in the cero part where it explicitly states "They also have several variants of the basic ability cero, differing in speed and power". DaisukeVulgar (talk) 02:21, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Rudobone

The correct name of Rudobone's zanpakuto is "Árbol", not Arbola, like always, the first translations says words like "Arbola" that doesn't exist in Spain.--83.97.213.48 (talk) 11:22, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone have the Kanji for his zanpakuto and is literall japanese meaning? 205.110.156.226 (talk) 01:22, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Done. 8D Kangarugh22 (talk) 15:24, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I noticed that his entry says that he was defeated by Rukia, Chad, and Ishida, but as of the most recent one I'm aware of, he had just released and was about to face Rukia. Should this be edited to say something like "his followers were defeated by Rukia, Chad, and Ishida?" 76.123.108.57 (talk) 18:39, 17 January 2009 (UTC)Turk

It can't be Árbol, it doesn't fit the kana. However, the basque word Arbola fits - another language spoken in Spain) - 201.8.165.112 (talk) 16:15, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Also, spain isn't the only country to speak spanish. Mexico, Puerto Rico. they speak spanish as well so they can be spelled differently, maybe its just spain that spells it like that.Haseo445 (talk) 17:34, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Help with finding a kanji, please?

I've been trying to hunt down the kanji and correct translation of Ulquiorra's second release but no matter how I try there's one kanji I just can't find. I have an image of the RAW where I've circled the one I can't find here: [1] As soon as I have it and its meaning then I'll add it all to the article. Akke Bandvagn 16:12, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

What portion of "Resurrección Segundo Etapa" does it represent? I can look it up on wiktionary if I know what letters to look for. ~SnapperTo 18:27, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

The kanji are 刀剣静放(swords quiet release) ?(unknown kanji) 二階層(second level) though my translation might be a bit inaccurate as don't actually know much about Japanese grammar and such things, I'm just doing this through an online dictionary. It seems more likely to belong with the first portion of kanji though. Akke Bandvagn 18:58, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, plans A through C didn't work. Since plan D means going through wiktionary:Category:Japanese kanji, I can't help. In the extremely unlikely event that nobody who knows Japanese provides the information, you should check ja:破面 の変更履歴 once it's unprotected and updated. ~SnapperTo 20:08, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for trying anyway, it seems to be a pretty elusive kanji. Eh... I suppose that's the Japanese version of this article, or something to that effect, right? Not that I can actually read it but as long as I can copy and paste the kanji I can find out its meaning. Akke Bandvagn 20:22, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Correct. Just ctrl + F 刀剣静放 and 二階層 to see what goes between them. ~SnapperTo 04:26, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Ulquiorra's Second release description

the description sounds a bit fan edited, don't you think? simply using the word "resurrection" in there just because the name of his second release is "Ressureccion Segunda Etapa" even though the word resurrection seems to fall out of context (in the description at least). i don't really understood it. I feel it should be edited to a more professional view.Haseo445 (talk) 19:24, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't quite understand what the problem is, it seems pretty fine to me considering the small amount of information we have to base it on. And just how is 'resurrection' out of context? Is it because there is no translation? That can be easily fixed, but I'm still missing one kanji in its Japanese name so that part will have to wait a little longer.Akke Bandvagn 19:24, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

So considering this we'll hopefully be able to put it how we have normal ressureccions? With the English, 'Engrish' and kanji? DaisukeVulgar (talk) 19:32, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Yup, as soon as I have that last, elusive kanji and its meaning(and hopefully a translated sentence that makes sense) I'll post it.Akke Bandvagn 19:51, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good, here's hoping you track that tricky kanji down. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 21:20, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

i still feel the word had no meaning in the description. still i just thought it was fan written. seeing as how they added that word to describe his form yet put it out of context. like you guys said, if you describe the form as if it was "resurrected" or "resurrection" than yes, i suggest you do that. ALSO is "segunda etapa" really the name of his second release???for all we kn ow that could mean he just stated the next level of release. for example "bankai" is the name of the second release but not the name of the zanbaktou in particular.Haseo445 (talk) 17:21, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I still don't quite see what you mean with "out of context" and yes, that's its official name as referenced from this image of the RAW manga: [2] which was taken from page 10 of chapter 348. Akke Bandvagn 21:57, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

i tihnk he means the name wasnt properly placed. i myself dont know what he means by "ressurected" form. i think its jsut bad wording24.255.17.79 (talk) 04:06, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I think you guys should read through the entire beginning of the article then because the Arrancar section explains what "resurrección/resurrection" is, among other things. While it's quite commonly referred to and described as "release" its official name is still "resurrection," just like the Soul Reapers' "releases" official names are "shikai" and "bankai." Same basic thing just different words, and an encyclopedia should use the official names, right? Akke Bandvagn 17:54, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

still isnt that a bit in-universe???? ressurected forms is not the same as using the actual word they use.24.249.176.77 (talk) 15:24, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Ulquiorra

is ulquiorra dead?24.249.176.77 (talk) 18:56, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

We don't know yet, wait until the next chapter comes out. Akke Bandvagn 00:12, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

No, Ulquiorra is still alive. After Hollow Ichigo impales Ishida with Zangetsu and is about to finish him off with a cero Ulquiorra slices off one of Hollow Ichigo's horns with a lightning blade, causing the cero to misfire. 142.26.133.248 (talk) 15:06, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Last Names

Volume 38 has new stat sheets for both Grimmjow and Ulquiorra. Of interest are the last names of Grimmjow's fraccion and Ulquiorra. Please forgive me if this is a noob question, but is it alright to edit the page with this new information or do we have to wait for the VIZ versions? Miashin (talk) 22:14, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

-Already did, and since it's source material(coming from Kubo himself), I believe it's fine to edit.--Asbartle (talk) 00:24, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Unless they are listed in English, waiting for the Viz versions is best, however really, as they aren't actually used in the series, including the last names so wholly seems a bit odd. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 00:59, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Ulquiorra's first release

the translation of murcielago for Japanese is "big black winged demon". but don't you think that's a bit over the top? the translation i got was just "winged demon" QueenofHearts (talk) 19:33, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I wonder how you got that result because I just checked in my online dictionary and the kanji means 黒(black) 翼(wing) 大(big) 魔(demon/devil) which would become "big black-winged demon" in coherent English, or would you rather prefer "black-winged big demon"? So it's not over-the-top, it's fact. Akke Bandvagn 17:41, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

i tried an online translator, i got winged demon aswell. i don't know, maybe if you translated it separately, you get something else, so i don't think none of you were wrong.Haseo445 (talk) 16:58, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Online translators are notoriously spotty, and incorrect. 74.60.54.217 (talk) 07:33, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

wheres the kanji for "demon"? you got, big black wing but wheres demon? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Haseo445 (talk • contribs) 16:54, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

It's the last of the four kanji (魔) Akke Bandvagn 18:03, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Jeagerjaques Vs Jaegerjaquez

Regarding which one we should use, I know that Vol 38 prints it as Jaegerjaquez but with the official Viz translation using Jeagerjaques ala volume 24 and this being the English wiki, wouldn't it make more sense to use the English version? DaisukeVulgar (talk) 20:50, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

• Jeagerjaques then per WP:UE. If the official Viz manga uses it, so should we. I just hope they decide on (S)C(h)if(f)er soon though. Sasuke9031 (talk) 20:59, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

That's what I thought too, but I wanted to check with others before making the decision seems as there has been a lot of editing involving both Grimmjow and Ulquiorra with their names. I feel that we'll have to wait a bit to see Ulquiorra's name translated officially as annoyingly they feel the need to just be on a first name basis with him. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Ditto, if Viz says Jeagerjaques then Jeagerjaques it is. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 22:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I've changed it on the List of hollows in Bleach page, I'll go through other articles to see if there are any others that escaped the change. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 23:02, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Couple more volumes and we'll see Ulquiorra's last name, I think. "Schiffer" didn't come about until his second fight with Ichigo. 207.80.142.5 (talk) 19:14, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

LIST OF HOLLOWS

This is not a list of Hollows, instead, it is a list of Arrancar with a short description of Hollows at the top. Suggest renaming and removing the description. Also, if needed, due to lack in number of named/significant Hollows, create another page which truly is a List of HOLLOWS. One may argue that Arrancar ARE Hollow. However, this is not so. They WERE Hollow but are no longer. It would be equivalent to saying that Vaizards are Shinigami. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.255.7.185 (talk • contribs) 10:20, April 18, 2009

That's your interpretation of it, arguably Arrancar are just Hollows that have acquired Shinigami powers, whereas Vaizado are Shinigami that have acquired Hollow powers, they still belong to their original class, they just have a few more powers to throw around. Also, the argument about changing it to "List of Arrancar in Bleach" has already been made, check the Archive. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 16:32, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

they still have remnants of there masks and the still have hollow holes, the release of there zanpaktou gives of a hollow form. arrancar are just a mix of holllows and shinigami powers. if you think about it, nothing much has changed, only that they look more humanoid and have a zanpaktou.

the release of there zanpaktou shows there true hollow powers (sealed in a zanpaktou). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.249.176.77 (talk) 15:33, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Ulquiorra's not Dead (yet)

Ulquiorra's article says he dies, but that chapter hasn't been released (yet) and therefore the article may contain false information. We should revert the article back to how it was before and wait for the next chapter to be released before anything should be added. 142.26.133.248 (talk) 21:08, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. While the chapter has been released now it doesn't confirm his death. While he does disappear into a cloud of ash he clearly said that "if you don't kill me now it'll never be over," heavily implying he'll come back eventually. Akke Bandvagn 13:21, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

When he says that "it'll never be over", it refers to the fact that the fight would technically never be settled because neither killed the other, and Ichigo refuses to kill Ulquiorra because his Hollow fought him. KazuChikari (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

I suppose it could be interpreted either way, but I for one would like a confirmation of his death before we add it to his section. Akke Bandvagn 19:04, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

To me, it seems like that whole thing in Naruto with Hidan's living head being buried alive. He's neutralized. 207.80.142.5 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:15, 17 April 2009 (UTC).

You've got a point, and Yammy has kind of confirmed his death now so I suppose we've seen the last of Ulquiorra, which I'm personally rather disappointed of. I suppose we should include it in his section somewhere since everyone that's been killed is stated as such. Akke Bandvagn 19:27, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

I think it'll be pretty safe to say he's dead, yammy himself confirmed it. It's true that kubo can( and probably will, since ulquiorra its highly popular) bring him back somehow. But that's just an assumption, based on the facts he's dead, the rest are just hypothesis 201.220.215.13 (talk) 18:42, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

0 to 9/1 to 10

In the most recent chapter (354) Yammy states that the numbers go from 0 to 9 rather than 1 to 10, which would also mean he is the most powerful Espada. I'm not sure if Yammy would lie, and obviously it's possible he's telling the truth, but I think for the time being we should keep the list with Stark at the top. I know it hasn't and probably won't happen, but if it does, it shouldn't be. We should wait for another character who can confirm it to do so before making a move on this. Frequen-Z (talk) 09:13, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

I think you're right, we need some more confirmation to really state Yammy as the most powerful Espada, though we can add the whole changing of number thing to his section in the meantime since it's obviously pretty important. Akke Bandvagn 12:36, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

and his title would be cera espada... oops cera means wax?--Rcmtiongson (talk) 13:13, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, there is no ordinal form for Cero (Zero), and it doesn't change for femminine. It would be Espada Cero in Spanish. --Wafry (talk) 17:00, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't think we should say Yammy's the strongest yet. There's probably a catch to him being number 0; it wouldn't make since for Aizen to leave his strongest Espada in Hueco Mundo. We can't, however, assume that Yammy's lying about the rankings; it's obviously an important plot point that Kubo wanted to establish this chapter. 207.80.142.5 (talk) 19:13, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't see the problem here. When he says that the numbers go from 0 to 9, it logically follows that 0 goes at the top of the list. It's not original research, it's two plus two. The Splendiferous Gegiford (talk) 19:34, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. Mussav (talk) 19:52, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Wouldn't be the first time that an Espada has lied to them though would it? Remember Aaroniero saying he was only Kaien? Confirmation is the key. If by next chapter it's confirmed, we'll move him up above Stark. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 20:30, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

The problem is that it probably won't be confirmed next chapter. Kubo's most likely gonna spend the next 30 chapters or so on more random Espada fighting before going back to Yammy. The Splendiferous Gegiford (talk) 05:52, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

(i don't think yammy is lying. after all Number 4 (can spell his name to save my life) said that Yammy couldn't defeat Urahara and Yaruichi at his "current level". by the way i have no idead how do actually do this so if someone could help me i would be very grateful. jaxomprice17) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaxomprice17 (talk • contribs) 02:49, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Because that was Aaroniero's personality; if you haven't noticed each Arrancar has his own personality… Aaroniero = Deceiving … Barrgan = Pride, Stark = Laziness, Yammy = Anger, Szayel = Arrogant... etc so I don’t think Yammy lied on them. Just my opinion. Mussav (talk) 21:24, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't think Yammy lied either but I agree with Daisuke anyway, we'd better have some more confirmation before making such a major move 'cuz I'm sure a lot of fans'll have their opinion too which might very well lead to yet another round of mass (good faith)vandalism. I say we wait with the move until another character have confirmed the Espada rankings, just to be safe. Akke Bandvagn 21:36, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

If the espadas go from 0 to 9 rather than 1 to 10 then does that means that when he's number 10 he's not an espada ?? And about him being the strongest that sounds really hard to believe, i mean, if he is he'll freaking butcher rukia and cia, i also think there's a catch there( maybe he cant be in that state for very long).. but the problem is that waiting for a confirmation will probably take many chapters.. so for now all we have are his statements, i think we should add it like that, that he change his appearance, erasing the one and thus becoming zero and declaring he's the top among espadas.. that should be fine with everyone 201.220.215.13 (talk) 18:58, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Yammy never explicitly states that he's the strongest Espada. Maybe the Espada rankings go in order of the numbers on a keyboard, and 0 is still the lowest. All we know is that Yammy's the only one whose rank changes when he releases. 207.80.142.5 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:09, 22 April 2009 (UTC).

Regarding Menos

Menos is the full name given to the hollows that are gillians and higher, they are not just a nick name that soul reapers gave them, its the actual name, the word MENOS, is just the nick name (shorter). that all. so i suggest we fix it —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bread Ninja (talk • contribs) 03:44, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

You realize you just contradicted yourself don't you? DaisukeVulgar (talk) 10:33, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

What?

Where did the pictures of the vasto lorde and adjucha go? They used to be in this article but not anymore; why? Expo377 (talk) 00:08, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

It violates the WP:NONFREE policy. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 00:23, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

In what way(s)? Expo377 (talk) 07:22, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Individual or even excessive numbers of group character images are not allowed in character lists, and non-free images should be used sparingly. This list already has three non-free images, which is as many as it can justify. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 14:23, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Then do you mind if you delete one of the pictures in http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/World_of_Naruto as well? It has 4. Expo377 (talk) 16:18, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Yammy's released form

Alright. I recently took another look at his page on the Bleach Wiki [3], and then a closer look at the picture of his released form. And although he does appear to be a humanoid ankylosaurus at first glance... that's not quite correct.

Turns out he has an additional six pairs of legs in between his normal ones and his tail, thus making him a Centauroid creature.

So... how exactly do we describe him now? (Until next time... Anon e Mouse Jr.) Anon e Mouse Jr. (talk) 04:06, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Looking at it properly, I can see the legs. He does indeed come under the 'Centauroid creature' category. Like the love child of a ankylosaurus and a caterpillar. I suppose it can be added if there are no other objections. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 14:26, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

New section

should there be a section for those two girl ancarrars(sorry if spelling's wrong/i forgot their names too) who tried to beat the living snot out of orihime because they were jealous of her or something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.189.243.36 (talk) 23:21, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

They had sections before, both Loly and Menoly but they're considered too minor storyline wise to retain sections. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 14:21, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Add in to the section about the Espada

Could someone please add in to the section of the Espada about the fact that they all govern the 10 major aspects of Death as cited in the Manga. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ridrix (talk • contribs) 13:50, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Barragan did indeed talk about his aspect showing in his power, and the aging process happened to Soi Fon's arm. Unless AnmaFinotera still has a problem with it, I say it's notable at least in Barragan's case. For the others I still believe there's too much OR when discussing their aspects and how it reflects on them But something should be put in the Espada overhead. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 14:30, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok i added. (Jaxomprice17 (talk) 01:04, 19 May 2009 (UTC))

I've reverted your edits Jaxomprice17 purely because just listing out all the aspects of death is rather trivial and reading format is rather bad. We should discuss the best way to include this information, but bear in mind there is already a sentence saying something like "each Espada governs a specific aspect of death" somewhere in the introductory paragraph. Is it necessary to put more? --Hanaichi 01:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes. It's like say that each captain has a different personality and then not explain. Everyone likes elaboration. As for format we could just add it to the end or beginning or maybe even middle of the section on each separate espada. These traits aren't trivial, they give some more dept to the espada, even if that dept is not as apparent with some as it is with others. (Jaxomprice17 (talk) 03:05, 19 May 2009 (UTC))

Halibel

Halibel's name has been revealed to be spelled Harribel someone should change it. 121.119.215.88 (talk) 12:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Revealed where? -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 13:23, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Spoilers from the newest chapter XD But seeing as nothing solid has surfaced yet...(we need images) I say we wait.--Hanaichi 13:32, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

hereis a link to the image which shows the writting of her name [4] 121.119.215.88 (talk) 13:34, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Okay, so not from the English release? (*cough*Remember WP:COPYRIGHT please*cough*) -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 13:41, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

But we did something like this (or so I vaguely remember) for the initial arrancar that invaded Karakura Town (Shawlong Qufang group). There were official goods released long after the chapter, and we decided to use the name on their coverpage. And English release is FAR FAR away. --Hanaichi 14:25, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I was just curious as to what it was the official spelling for...so guessing its intended to be the "official" romanization? -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 14:34, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Ulquiorra's release

The correct way to say it is "Resurrección Segunda Etapa", besides, it would be great if you add something about his Cero Oscuras.--83.97.212.50 (talk) 21:56, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

If you look at the above discussion you'll see that I'm one kanji away from posting the full translation of his second release, and the black cero is too minor to be mentioned; it fits into the general statement of different varieties of cero in the overview. Akke Bandvagn 22:09, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Does the kanji sais "Segunda Espada"? I think it's "Segunda Etapa". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.97.212.240 (talk • contribs) 18:34, 7 March 2009

I heard three different translations saying "espada". if it was the "ressurecion segunda etapa" that would be "the second rising today" or something like that. which really doesn't make sense. I'll look into it.Haseo445 (talk) 17:02, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't know why but those translations you speak of must have either misread the kana or be the same one, as the kana say "resurrección segunda etapa" （レスレクシオン・セグンダ・エターパ）(resurekushion segunda etāpa) as seen here:[5] And the only definition I get on "etapa" in my online Spanish dictionary is "stage" so it'd actually mean "resurrection second stage." Akke Bandvagn 17:18, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Yep, I'm spanish, that's why I said that the correct way to describe Ulquiorra's state is "etapa" because means "stage", although, with the "Cero Oscuras" Kubo made a mistake (the correct way to say it in spanish is "Cero Oscuro", so i was no sure about it.--83.97.213.151 (talk) 21:58, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, I doubt Kubo knows much actual Spanish, he's not all that knowing about its grammar system at any rate as he's made a number of grammatical mistakes like the one you pointed out. I suppose he does the best he can with the knowledge he does have about the language as foreign languages can be pretty difficult to grasp. Akke Bandvagn 18:05, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't have much knowledge of what the original Japanese wrote for the "Cero Oscuras", or usage of Spanish words, but could the "oscuras" be a verb here? It would make it correct I suppose. I still don't know if it could be a verb, or that much Spanish. Spindori (talk) 21:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Oscuras means dark. It's not a verb. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaxomprice17 (talk • contribs) 00:46, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

very well, we wil just leave it then.Haseo445 (talk) 17:31, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Why hasn't anything about Cero Oscuro been mentioned in Ulquiorra's article? 142.26.133.248 (talk) 15:10, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

I've being wondering this.. how powerful ulquiorra really is ? he's number four.. but he's also( according to him) the only espada that has a second release.. and for what we've seeing so far each release puts the individual at a complete different level than before.. so his second realese can give him the same difference in level with the rest of the espadas that the one that shinigami's captains have in relation with their lieutenants —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.220.215.14 (talk) 19:12, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I just want to point out that ulquiorra mentioned that he never told anyone about his second realease. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.189.243.36 (talk) 23:04, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

"TRIVIAL information"

How is listing exactly where every Espada's mask and hole are (information completely inconsequential to the plot) necessary, but explaining that each Espada represents an aspect of death, a plot point which reveals why they each have themed abilities, and is alleged to be their natural "purpose", is trivial? Especially when it is sourced?

Seriously, what the f* kind of reasoning is this? Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 01:52, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Okay, looking back through the history log, I've got to say that I'm appalled at AnmaFinotera's reversion behavior, constantly reverting edits as "last good version", and labeling information that was explicitly explained in a prominent scene in the recent chapter as "too much OR". AnmaFinotera, please tell me that I'm misinterpreting what you meant in these edit comments.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 02:02, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

"misleading edit summary"

ummm, no, AnmaFinotera. The "originally thought to be 1-10" is at the end of the paragraph, all by itself and coming right after the bit on fraccion, which has little to do with it, and would be more appropriate coming with the initial explanation on the ranks.

As for Barragan, he does not have control over time. While he says that "old age means time" (which loses some specifics in the translation), he explains that his powers allow him to age others - not control the flow and speed of time as "control over time" normally means. "Aging" is the totally accurate meaning of his abilities, "Time" is incredibly vague and misleading.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 02:15, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

It is excessive plot detail and trivial information. This is a "character" list, not a plot list, and at this time, their representing an aspect of death has not played any real significant role for the series, nor does it really even explain why they have "themed" abilities, as there has not been any theme to their abilities until it was suddenly introduced in these 3 pages (3 pages...out of how many thousands). Information from "one scene" that has not had any actual relevance since the Espadas were introduced is still trivial and minor, particularly in a series this long. At this point, people are just jumping the gun to make it appear more important than it really is. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 02:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

...his ability to age her goes on for the entire chapter, and all the scenes since he started fighting.

"Each Espada's powers reflect that."

How does that indicate that this is not a character point? The manga explicitly says that this is why they have abilities of a certain set. And then you go back on your "this is not a plot list", claiming that the info has not had any role in the series. Which is it?

How does explaining what's been going on with these characters not relevant to the character? Are you seriously saying that explanations for mysteries in the plot are trivial because they were just now revealed? How about when Aizen was revealed as a traitor? Was that trivial because it had only been explicitly revealed in that one scene at that point?

I am still very interested in an explanation for your behavior in the edit summaries, as it is very troubling.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 02:15, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

One is a major plot point, one is not. Their having abilities of a certain set, which has not been notable or relevant until this 3 page scene, is NOT a major plot point. Go look at any high quality character list. Each character section does not go into minute details on every last power and every last scene, it gives a brief overview. And consider this is the newest chapter, it obviously hasn't been developed beyond the sudden mention.-- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 02:39, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Just one note. Why should Barragan be any different? Sure we've only just learned about these 'Aspects of Death', but you've not exactly gone through every Espada and put something like "As the Espada representing Destruction, Grimmjow is able to blah blah blah." Or "As the Espada with Greed as his aspect, Aaronerio is able to blah blah blah." What is it about Barragan that warrants his information to include something that the others don't? DaisukeVulgar (talk) 02:31, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Someone else shoved that in in an earlier summary, but really, where has it been significant? This one 3 page scene suddenly declares "they all have themes" that were not obvious before. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 02:39, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Needless to say, I absolutely do not agree with your flippant assertion that "one is a major plot point, one is not", and I don't see how, at all, this is akin to "going over every last power and scene". It's an explanation for the Espada that unifies their personality, powers, and purpose - if anything, adding info on the "aspects" would actually unify the somewhat rambling sections and allow most of the stuff there to be removed - for example, instead of rambling about how Stark seems bored and is very fast, but his Fraccion fights with him, we could start off with "Stark is the 1st Espada, and represents death due to Loneliness", and then reorganize the section to show how this manifests in the character. (Obviously, for Stark, we would want to wait until we got confirmation which parts were due to the aspect).

...Grimmjow is violent and ferocious in his attacks. Zommari is obsessed with Aizen, and his release is "love". Ulquiorra is kind of gothy and everything he says is laden with nihilism. Yammy is all around just very violent. Each of the themes fits in with what we know about the characters, and honestly, defines them. And to be honest, this was themes that have been recognized for months now, and are even approached on this page. This "3 page exposition" (actually pretty much the entire part of the chapter involving Soi Fon and Barragan) explains that the unified themes of the Espada, their personalities, and their abilities, is actually an integral part of them being Espada, and not just random character traits. We already list what these things are - this exposition basically says - "Hey, this isn't just incidental info about the character we're talking about here, it's an important consequence of them being Espada".

As for why Barragan is the only one whose ability is listed so far - as I'm not the one who added that, I don't want to go out on a limb, but while we know the themes of the others, Barragan's the only one where we explicitly know how that theme manifests. We could come up with pretty accurate guesses for the others, but that would be OR.

Basically, I could not disagree more with the assertion that these aspects are trivial. If any of you are familiar with Digimon, I would compare this chapter to the Digimon Adventure Episode "Sora's Crest of Love", where she explains the meaning of the Crests the children have been collecting, and why the children's crests glowed when they fulfilled their trait - while neither they nor the viewer needed to know at the time why the crests glowed (it's one of those "mysteries" that shows like to use, doncha' know) her three-minute explanation basically became one of the main pillars of the internal mythology of the series, intimately unified and characterized each of the characters, and was an integral part of the rest of the series. Like this chapter, the explanation was also the issue which decided or defined the immediate battle.

Honestly, all I've been trying to add to the article is "and each of them in some way represents an aspect of Death". I'm not trying to go into extreme detail, or list all the powers (which this article already does, so don't accuse me of adding it). I'm trying to add something which Barragan himself said was important, and which he explained defined the characters.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 06:28, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

It makes sense. Think about it. Aaroneiro is all about greed, gluttony eating other hollows for their powers, Szayzell is just insane and all his powers are about creating an insane world around his opponenent, Zommari is obsessed with his speed and power over others, so intoxicated, Grimmjows powers, laceration, those bolts he chucks out that demolish buildings etc. are pure destruction, Nnoitra is all despair, he has six arms, you cut one off, it grows back and he's like Zaraki, the opponent despairs at how strong his battle lust is, Ulquiorra as has been said, is all about nihilism and that kinda stuff, Halibel...admittedly haven't seen how that applies other than her general personality, Baraggan is obvious, Stark we haven't seen his powers yet and Yammi is psycho rage. It is an important facet of their characters I think...--202.164.196.46 (talk) 11:55, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

It may make sense to you, but KrytenKoro has basically admitted that its all original research taking 3 scenes and totally guessing at all the detail, presumably based on a scanlation which isn't a valid source anyway.-- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 15:01, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Scanlation isn't a valid source? Do you realise how long it'll take for it to be officially done in English? We make do with what we've got. Besides, the manga itself (translated by people we can easily assume to be fluent in Japanese and English) seems like a pretty reputable source material... Frequen-Z (talk) 12:11, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

WHAT?! No, the only thing I've claimed is that Barragan explains that each Espada represents an aspect of death, and that "Each Espada's powers reflect that." That is a direct freaking quote. The closest thing I said to that was to only add what has been explicitly mentioned in the manga so far - and if you've got a problem with me saying that, then...well, there's not much point in attempting to discuss things anymore.

If you're problem is that the translation is not official, then guess what - you need to remove all the rest of the "doubtful information on this page" - and Ulquiorra just showed up in the English anime, so have fun with that. If you're going to make demands like that, you need to be willing to follow up on them.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 03:53, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

KrytenKoro has a point. Most of us get our information from scanlations which are "not valid sources" anyway. Ok I suppose Barragan is different from the others by the fact that he has displayed his ability in relation to his theme/aspect of death. The others need not be stated because of going into OR, but a simple sentence could be put in the introductory paragraph of the espadas along the lines of "Each Espada represents an aspect of death" or something similar like that. --Hanaichi 04:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

This can all be settle by the same way we handled the Yammy ordeal. We wait and see if other characters confirm this, like I said before, confirmation is the key. Next chapter will probably go into a lot more detail on these whole events. I do agree that the Aspects of Death will be a thing we can put, but for now I think it's still about as important as saying Ulquiorra can use a Cero Oscuras. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 05:03, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

That's a very reasonable way to go about this. You have my support.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 17:32, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm glad we could resolve that civilly. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 19:36, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I would say that the fact that he started rotting her arm is a preetty good confirmation. (Jaxomprice17 (talk) 01:09, 19 May 2009 (UTC))

I didn't really know where to stick this but the reason that i add the bit about the ax to Barragan is because it is a different weapon, like Harribel's huge sword or Nel's lance. This one doesn't have an eye in the center and has chains. the other one does. Plus it was in his chair not his cloak. This is the weapon he has for his released state. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaxomprice17 (talk • contribs) 18:44, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Stark/Lilinette's released form

In the latest chapter of Bleach it seems Stark and Lilinette fuse into one released form. Their release is "Kick about, Wolf Pack", the translation being "Los Lobos". The end result appears to be Stark covered in fur, wearing a headpiece resembling Lilinette's helmet and he has guns. I can't show an image due to apparent blacklisting of the link but you can find it on IMDb and the Bleach Wiki.

I don't think this information should be added just yet. Evilgidgit (talk) 10:32, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Wait till the official english release. And to tell the truth i hope that your info is wrong. That just seems so lame for the 1st Espada. Jaxomprice17 (talk) 18:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Tell that to Tite Kubo. Evilgidgit (talk) 21:18, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Gladly. . . got his e-mail? Jaxomprice17 (talk) 00:47, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

No. Evilgidgit (talk) 09:45, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Pity. Oh well looks like his info was true. . . might as well wait and see if he's go some skill our not. Jaxomprice17 (talk) 10:01, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Can someone please remove the part of him growing fur. Makes more sense if he is just wearing fur rather then growing it considering his clothing style. Also, his "power is not seal inside his zanpaktou" should be "sealed". —Preceding unsigned comment added by RuudWalraven (talk • contribs) 18:57, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree about the style. His outfit's theme seems to be that of a western gunslinger, with wolf fur patched here and there on the coat for "coolness." Wonder what those long strips are? At first they looked like ammo belts, but I'm not too sure about that.88.112.195.204 (talk) 10:04, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

We don't know the items he's holding are guns. The one in his right hand seems way too long to be a gun. 207.91.175.98 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:57, 12 June 2009 (UTC).

Didn't realize guns had a specific size in manga, especially since we just saw Soi Fon shoot off what was basically an RPG. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 01:50, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

It's true that manga/anime weapons doesn't have to follow the limits of real life counterparts, but we still don't know for sure that what Primera is holding are guns. I don't think they are because I can see neither barrel nor magasine, and they seem too flat unless they're some special kind of kido gun. Seems more likely to be some kind of close-quarter-combat weapons to me but we'll have to wait for the next chapter for a confirmation. Akke Bandvagn 10:30, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. I wasn't saying they were guns, I was merely stating that we cannot rule out any possibility without first seeing them in action, is all. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 17:45, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Again, can someone please remove the statement that he grows fur all over his body? Add it when it is confirmed, right now he seems to wear something that has fur on it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RuudWalraven (talk • contribs) 19:54, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Im pretty sure they're some kind of "very old fashion" guns, apparently Tite has taken a like for firearms, but i agree to wait till the next chapter, they could very well be vacuum cleaners.. oh, and what Soi Fong shoot was an RPG ? I mistook it for a Tomahawk >_< Hoblin-sama (talk) 03:55, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Next chapter depicts cero being rapidly shot out of the guns. --Hanaichi 04:32, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Stark is now Starrk

Can someone change Staek's name to Starrk as it is the way that the author spelled it. Bo surprise there seing as how all Espada have a letter in their name that is double. Starrk, Harribel, Barragan, Ulquiorra, Grimmjow, Luppi, etc. Also I live in Japn an often find official merchandise such as toys and even in the card game with Nel tu name spelled as Nelliel instead of Neliel, I think it should also be changed. 58.89.240.251 (talk) 13:03, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Source? And please do not point to a fansub or the like. As for Neliel, we use the official English spellings here.-- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 14:22, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm starting to wander if you're even familiar with the series. As most people that keep up with the series know, every so often Tite Kubo will write the name of one of the characters on the cover of a chapter. He uses Kanji for humans and Shinigami and Roman alphabet {english letters call it what you like) for Arrancar. Starrk's name was reveled in such cover for chapter 362 of the manga. As of right now the English manga is not far enough advance to have shown the spelling of his name so as all other info in this page that has not been revealed in the englsih released Japanese manga in which english spelling is shown has been used. I would give you a link to the image but you probaly say something to dismiss it. 58.89.240.251 (talk) 14:33, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Your first remark was unnecessary. Love the series, buy every volume as soon as I can (waiting for the latest to ship). But I am in North America and since I don't read illegal fansubs, yes, I have to wait for the English. I also can not remember to the letter which characters have appeared yet or not, nor have I seen any of the Japanese covers beyond the first one. A simple explanation without snark would have been just fine, particularly when anyone familiar with this page would know it has a LOT of problems with people trying to replace official English spellings with the scanslation ones just because they don't like how Viz spelled something.-- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 14:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

WellI guess I'll apoligize however I live in Japan and while I dont agree with the way Viz spells somethings this is the English wiki so I acecpt it. However this is no diferrent then how when Halibel was revealed to be Harribel is the author spelling it in plain letters and since the english version is not far enough to have shown this I ask that it be changed to fit the rest of the articles. Also I do have the english volumes as well I resently bough the 21 volumes box set and I also buy the Japanse volume as soon as they come up. 58.89.240.251 (talk) 15:03, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

That's fine then. As noted, I just wanted to be sure of the source since the name was changed without explanation. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 15:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Animalistic?

The intro paragraph describes all Hollows as being animalistic (incapable of speech and reasoning), but some, like Screecher, the bat hollow formed from the serial killer, retained their personalities, and what about that octopus-pig hybrid Hollow that attacked Orihime? Both of them were capable of speech and reasoning, so not all Hollows become animalistic, they just gain a predatory instinct. 75.157.124.3 (talk) 17:46, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Ulquiorra's Death

I've noticed in Ulquiorra's section that his death and such are not actually mentioned. I have attempted once to add in this information but it was removed and described as being irrelevant. Perhaps maybe someone would explain why it is not included in the article? Is it for article length reasons or something along those lines? Much abliged. Evilgidgit (talk) 15:27, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Wiki isn't the place for chapter by chapter updates. And considering Bleach's tendency to "kill" off folks a few times each, its better to wait till its certain. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 16:50, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Wait... is not certain to assume he is dead? come on! the guy has turned into ashes! we can assume he is actually dead! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maul day (talk • contribs) 10:38, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Not to mention Yammy said he was dead. Jaxomprice17 (talk) 18:52, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. More information points to him being dead than not, and it can always be changed if the latter is true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.105.185.98 (talk) 23:09, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Aspects of Death

Each of the high ranking espanda (1-10/0-9) have a aspect of death. Starrk's aspect is loneliness, Barragan's aspect is old age/time, Harribel's aspect is sacrifice, Ulquiorra's aspect is nihilism (life is pointless), Jiruga's aspect is despair, Grimmjows aspect is destruction, Lammari's aspect is intoxication, Aporro's aspect is madness, Aaroniero's aspect is greed, and Yammy's aspect is rage. My source is the Bleach Manga and you can find it on www.Youtube.com and search Bleach Manga 356. A True Patriot (talk) 22:31, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

We've clarified in previous Talk discussions that until this comes up again, it's too trivial to put. DaisukeVulgar (talk) 00:06, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Also, please do not promote illegal activities here. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 00:48, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

well, i've always being wondering this: this is the english wiki, yes, but that doesnt mean that all the people here are american, or are subjected by american laws. So is en.wikipedia bound to north american laws ? and if so, why ? british also speak english for example —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hoblin-sama (talk • contribs) 15:15, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

The servers are American and therefore all content on them are bound by American laws, and because the Wikimedia Foundation said so and since they own the site, its their call (and really, most of the "American" laws that are relevant here apply to Britain and other major countries as well). -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 15:34, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

That makes it clear, thanks. My doubt originated from the use of the copyright policy, which isnt the same on wikis of other languajes Hoblin-sama (talk) 05:29, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

For future use: The thing with the eye and the menos fingers

There is a creature that has reappeared in the latest chapters (ch. 363-364) that is probably a Hollow of some type. It looks like a titanic mass with a single slitted eye (reminiscent of the "yellow demon" from the Mega Man game series) with Menos Grande masks for finger nails. The reason I'm putting a note is to make it easier for future editors to note that its first appearance was in ch. 178, when Aizen escapes Soul Society. It may or may not be responsible for the "Negacion" effect that allowed them to escape. 97.120.19.92 (talk) 03:12, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeah shouldn't there be a mention somewhere here about Superchunky (that may or may not be its name). He is something tat has not been seen in the series before as in there has nothing that looks like him been shwon before. 138.163.160.42 (talk) 00:51, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Nel's name

An above comment by AnmaFinotera states that we use Nel's real name as Neliel because and I quote "As for Neliel, we use the official English spellings here." However the english chapters released by shonen jump are only in the part when Ichigo breaks into Las Noches and the anime is not even to the Hueco Mundo invation so i would like to ask where is this Official spelling coming from? here are two links to japanese media which spell her name as Nelliel with two L's and no these are not fan anythings Nel's official card, and animenewsnetwork article notice the last name too. 138.163.160.42 (talk) 19:29, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

True, I wasn't aware it wasn't that far on the English releases yet. Until then, yes, should use the official Japanese release per the media until Viz releases it (though following trend, it likely will be Neliel). -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 20:33, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

So is alright to change it you say? Just want to be clear before I do anything.138.163.160.42 (talk) 20:48, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

I think her name is spelled on a "cover" page, though I can't remember which chapter it is. You should check that first. ~SnapperTo 20:51, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

You're thinking of Chapter "290. The Broken Mask" However it only shows the spelling for her child/nickname Nel Tu and not her full name. 138.163.160.41 (talk) 20:58, 19 July 2009 (UTC)