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What does "Type of Cause" mean?

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This is a new one for me. Every one says, "Heroic Virtue." Except, heroic virtue only applies for Beatification and (certainly) Canonization as a Saint. The question is not raised (yet) for Servants of God or Venerables. So, what is this category's purpose? It seems confused.Mwidunn (talk) 17:06, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New Saints

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Kateri Tekakwitha and Marianne Cope are now canonized saints. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.77.78.21 (talk) 07:18, 1 May 2012 (UTC) Saint Pedro Calungsod is a missionary martyred in Guam Fatherb2 (talk) 04:13, 4 February 2013 (UTC) The title, "American Saints", is misleading and incorrect as, technically, America includes North, South and Central America - basically, the entire Western Hemisphere. All of those listed were from the United States and its territories. "Saints of the United States" would be correct as a title. William Howe July 29, 2013. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.4.102.38 (talk) 18:33, 29 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree wholeheartedly. Shall we change it?Richardson mcphillips (talk) 01:30, 25 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The title of this article is inaccurate, because it omits all non-Roman Catholic saints in the United States Cooluncle55 (talk) 15:09, 20 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Maria Esperanza

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She did die in New Jersey, which fits the qualification at the beginning of the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ansat (talk • contribs) 21:06, 4 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Diego Luis de San Vitores SJ

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If Diego Luis de San Vitores is listed here, presumably because he died in Guam, why is St Pedro Calungsod, who died in the same place on the same day, not listed? --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 01:43, 25 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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What makes a Saint "American"? Should this entry's title be modified?

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The first line of the article indicates this list is geographically limited to the United States of America.

To the rest of the world America includes all of the Western Hemisphere.

So Saints from Canada, Peru, etc, are all also "American Saints".

How can this title be modified to be more accurate, without making it clunky? US Saints would be more clear. Or USA Saints? Or List of Saints from the United States of America? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Evx (talk • contribs) 17:02, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Roman Catholic saints of the USA" perhaps, seeing as the article omits any references to any saints that are not Roman Catholic. Cooluncle55 (talk) 15:10, 20 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Citizens of the United States of America call themselves Americans as a political term. Words often have multiple meanings. US citizens calling themselves American as a legal distinction does not diminish persons of the Americas calling themselves American as a geographical reference. Mmeyerdc (talk) 14:18, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wasn't Jogues French? Manannan67 (talk) 21:33, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mother Teresa

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How come Mother Teresa is listed? Not objecting; just if she is listed because she visited America in service of her vocation, S John Paul (and perhaps Bl Paul VI?) should also be listed. Ansat (talk) 18:23, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Mother Teresa was granted honorary US citizenship by the US Congress and always used a US passport when she entered the United States. Mmeyerdc (talk) 14:15, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Candidates for sainthood

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What is the source to confirm that all the people listed as candidates for sainthood really are considered candidates for sainthood? Is there a list that can be cited to prove their status as such? --Metropolitan90 (talk) 04:55, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, candidates according to whom? The only true candidates are those listed Servant of God, and for whom a cause has been initiated. Manannan67 (talk)

Could we have some some editors who are adding names to this list state the criteria they are using? I'm coming to this article for the first time but I suggest that we require the individual to be named or proposed to be named in a public petition to the bishop who would initiate the actual cause for canonization in a WP:RS. Otherwise, offer alternative criteria. This should not be a popularity contest. patsw (talk) 18:22, 17 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I propose this wording and the editing of the article to bring it into conformance:

This list includes individuals for whom there is a public petition to the bishop to commence an investigation into the heroic virtue of the individual leading to their formal recognition as a Servant of God. patsw (talk) 01:30, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have begun by adding this criterion to the article.

I removed the following entries and invite editors to add them back when there's a reference to their petition which can be included.

  • Jesuit Martyrs in Micronesia (d. 1670–1685), Jesuit and lay missionaries in Guam and the Federated States of Micronesia who died for the Christian faith and mission (died in U.S. Territories)
    • Luis de Medina
    • Hipolito de la Cruz
    • Lorenzo
    • Diego Bazan
    • Damian Bernal
    • Nicolas de Figueroa
    • Francisco Esquerra
    • Pedro Diaz
    • Antonio Maria de San Basilio
    • Sebasian de Monroy
    • Andrés de la Cruz
    • Manuel Solorzano
    • Juan de los Reyes
    • Balthasar Dubois
    • Teofilo de Angelis
    • Felipe Songsong
    • Unnamed companions
  • Andrew White (1579–1656), Professed Priest of the Jesuits (London, United Kingdom – Maryland, USA – Hampshire, United Kingdom)
  • Jacques Marquette (1637–1675), Professed Priest of the Jesuits (Laon, France – Michigan, USA)

Even though they have a Wikipedia article, I was unable to find a source for their petition. I intend to continue this, but I'm starting with 3 to obtain some feedback. patsw (talk) 23:19, 7 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Sébastien Rale (1657–1724), Professed Priest of the Jesuits; Martyr (Portarlier, France – Maine, USA)
  • Jean-Pierre Aulneau de la Touche (1705–1736), Professed Priest of the Jesuits; Martyr (Moutiers-sur-le-Lay, France – Minnesota, USA)
  • Esther Wheelwright (Maria Joseph of the Infant Jesus) (1696–1780), Professed Religious of the Ursulines of Québec (Maine, USA – Québec, Canada)
  • Frances Margaret Allen (1784–1819), Professed Religious of the Religious Hospitallers of Saint Joseph (Vermont, USA – Montreal, Canada)

Removed, patsw (talk) 00:11, 10 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Charles Nerinckx (1761–1824), Priest of the Archdiocese of Louisville; Cofounder of the Sisters of Loretto (Herfelingen, Belgium – Kentucky, USA)
  • Benjamin Marie Petit (1811–1839), Professed Priest of the Sulpicians (Rennes, France – Missouri, USA)
  • Jean-Baptiste-Marie David (1761–1841), Professed Priest of the Sulpicians; Bishop of Bardstown; Founder of the Sisters of Charity of Nazareth (Cueöron, France – Kentucky, USA)
  • John England (1786–1842), Bishop of Charleston; Founder of the Sisters of Charity of Our Lady of Mercy (Cork, Ireland – South Carolina, USA)
  • James-Marie-Nicholas Joubert de la Muraílle (1777–1843), Professed Priest of the Sulpicians; Cofounder of the Oblate Sisters of Providence (Saint-Jean d'Angely, France – Maryland, USA)
  • Elizabeth Gallitzin [Yelizaveta Alexeyevna Golitsyna] (1797–1844), Professed Religious of the Society of the Religious of the Sacred Heart of Jesus (Saint Petersburg, Russia – Louisiana, USA)
  • Helio Koa'eloa (ca. 1815–1846), Married Layperson of the Diocese of Honolulu (Hawaii, USA)
  • Catherine Spalding (1793–1858), Founder of the Sisters of Charity of Nazareth (Maryland – Kentucky, USA)
  • Alice Lalor (Teresa) (ca. 1769–1846), Professed Religious of the Visitation Nuns (County Laois, Ireland – Washington, D.C., USA)
  • Barbara Dosh (Mary Lucy) (1839–1861), Professed Religious of the Sisters of Charity of Nazareth (Pennsylvania – Kentucky, USA)
  • Maria Sybilla Riepp (Benedicta) (1825–1862), Professed Religious of the Benedictine Nuns (Bavarian Congregation) (Waal, Germany – Minnesota, USA)
  • Francis Asbury Baker (1820–1865), Priest and Cofounder of the Missionary Society of Saint Paul the Apostle (Paulist Father) (Maryland – New York, USA)

Removed, patsw (talk) 00:54, 29 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Aside from the ongoing issue with apparent edit warring over the so-called "candidates" who do not have a source for their purported "petitions", why is this section of so-called "candidates" in this article at all? The article strictly speaking should be limited to American canonized saints and beati per its title. It's a stretch even to include the venerabili and Servants of God, but at least one could argue their causes were officially being considered. However, including everybody who is allegedly the subject of a petition to open a cause is ridiculous. I could start a petition tomorrow to open a cause for my grandma and put up a webpage about her holy life and then add her to the list; it doesn't mean she's ever going to be officially considered by either the local bishop or the Vatican. Indeed, while some of the folks on the list of "Candidates" (such as Mother Angelica, Adele Brise, Thomas Merton, and various martyrs) may one day have an official cause open, there are several others who are unlikely to ever have a cause open because of their behavior during their lives which involved opposing the Church or promoting fabricated propaganda. If someone wants to make an article on "list of American Catholics with petitions for sainthood cause" or whatever, that needs to be a separate article. It's just noise and clutter here and gives the mistaken impression that all these people are currently being seriously considered for sainthood. I propose starting such a separate article. Edited to add, creating a splitting proposal below. TheBlinkster (talk) 12:45, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A new editor

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A brand new editor User:AchillesTBW restored deletions and added references to personal sites

No mention of the candidate's cause

Explictly mentioning the candidate's cause

So we're left with the question - what's the criteria for inclusion here in the "candidate" section? Is there consensus for this "This list includes individuals for whom there is a public petition to the bishop to commence an investigation into the heroic virtue of the individual leading to a decree declaring them to be a Servant of God."? Or do you have alternative to propose? patsw (talk) 01:32, 1 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"List of American saints and beatified people" listed at Redirects for discussion

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A discussion is taking place to address the redirect List of American saints and beatified people. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 May 7#List of American saints and beatified people until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Veverve (talk) 01:38, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 23 May 2021

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk | contribs) 03:42, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

– Two weeks ago, Veverve made all of the moves proposed here and then listed the old titles for deletion at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 May 7#Other lists of Catholic saints. Those moves met with significant controversy, so I requested that they be reverted and opened this discussion. Veverve made these moves because 1) the articles (by their own admission) list only Catholic saints, yet are at titles implying they are lists of all saints; 2) are not precise; and 3) are not standardized. Raised objections include that the proposed targets are a clunky compromise that is neither precise nor concise and that some of these areas have insignificant bodies of non-Catholic Christians who recognize saints. Personally, I support standardization of the titles but am neutral about the current proposals; I would like to hear feedback from others. —Compassionate727 (T·C) 17:17, 23 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose "saints and beatified people". A few could perhaps use the word "Catholic" added. Note that "Catholic saint" is ambiguous between "saint who was a Catholic" and "person held to be a saint by Catholics". None of these moves is an obvious improvement. Srnec (talk) 01:05, 26 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. As I said at the RFD, the proposed name format causes problems, e.g. does "Polish Catholic saints" equal "Catholic saints who are Polish" or "saints of Polish Catholicism"? Nyttend backup (talk) 11:37, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Splitting proposal

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result of this discussion was to split into separate page American candidates for sainthood Gusfriend (talk) 02:02, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I propose that section American candidates for sainthood be split into a separate page called List of American proposed candidates for sainthood. Reasons for the split are as follows:

• The content of the section is way off-topic for the article, which, per its title, is supposed to be about American saints and beati. A person who doesn't even have a sainthood cause officially opened by bishop and/or recognized by Vatican is hardly in the same category as a saint or beati, as anyone can nominate anyone for sainthood, put up a webpage and start a petition - it doesn't mean the person will actually get a cause opened or even that they led a holy life. Readers unfamiliar with the Catholic sainthood process are likely to be very confused by this. Readers who do understand the difference and are looking for a list of Americans who are officially saints or beati, or even who have an official, opened cause, should not have to wade through a ton of irrelevant material on the page.

• The length of the section of "candidates", as well as the debates over who to include and sourcing for that list, is dwarfing and overwhelming the other, on-topic portion of the article. TheBlinkster (talk) 13:12, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move discussion in progress

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There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of saints of Poland which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 16:48, 15 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Split of proposed candidates completed

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The page List of American proposed candidates for sainthood has been created from the section American proposed candidates for sainthood. Gusfriend (talk) 02:13, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

New title

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The title still needs a change, even though the extra (non-official) folks have been removed. The article is not limited to "saints and beatified people" right now. It should be something like "List of venerated American Catholics". natemup (talk) 14:28, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Michelle Christine Duppong

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Was she really 124 when she died?!? I didn't think we had someone get that old yet. Spiel (talk) 17:48, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry. Dyslexia. Nm. Geez. You'd think I would recognize 1984. It was the best year to be alive.

"American" or something else?

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There seems to be a major naming issues, given that the title says "Americans", but even in the first paragraph this is immediately equivocated to include people who are not at all American (but who were just associated with America in some way). Do pages for other countries' venerated people do this? In my brief research, they do not. I think we should limit the names on this page to people who were American (citizens). If not, we should change the page's title to something accurate—which would prove extremely difficult anyway. natemup (talk) 19:04, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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