Talk:Lipogram

Discussion

Should this be written so oddly? I saw the point of writing it like this but Wikipedia isn't here to amuse. :) r3m0t 23:13, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I think its up for debate as to whether wikipedia is here to amuse, but the first paragraph is very informative, I like it and it should be kept, possibly clearly labeled. I do think the last paragraph above the line is barely informative, and could be done away with.Hyacinth 23:22, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Is there a way to include a reference to lipography? If one searches for lipography nothing comes up... Dnszero 19:32, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The old version without "e-injections" is below:

A lipogram is a kind of writing with constraints consisting of writing full paragraphs or books in which a particular symbol, such as that fifth symbol in talks in which it is most common, is missing. An author must submit to an awful handicap, allowing only consonants and A, I, O, and U; this is ordinarily a quorum of six fours and two.

This is a trivial task for uncommon symbols such as Z, W, or X, but it calls for much thought if you must avoid a common symbol. Writing without using common glyphs is impractical in many ways, as an author must omit many ordinary words. Many common words such as ordinary pronouns and action words must not occur in a lipogrammatist's manuscripts and drafts. Our author must omit a big part of his dictionary, which is difficult in its own right. In idioms of that South British lingo familiar to Milton (not Scottish, nor Irish, nor Cymric, but that of Gringos, most Canadians, Australians also, and in addition that of austral islands not too far away from Oz), omission of that symbol which follows D, with F following on in its own turn, is most difficult; tough, you might say, and all would concur.

Alas, for lack of application, lipogrammatists can slip up and with what upshot? Inclusion of that symbol you had sought to avoid. Oh my, my, such a pity. A shambolic lipogram! Sham! So that you do not miss my point: all of this stuff and rubbish was a Q-lipogram. But, no, it isn't! What is still missing is that symbol twixt I and K! But is it just that symbol? Oh, no! A slip up! This is as difficult as writing a dictionary! My typing digits, in pain, must follow my brain's commands, and no slip-ups must occur if I want to do this right!

I'll add a note in the article that this is here. r3m0t 19:18, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I've removed the link to the talk page from the actual article, on the basis of Wikipedia:Avoid self-references. --OpenToppedBus 11:08, May 16, 2005 (UTC)

Is The Raven actually a lipogram or does it just happen not to have any Zs in it by chance? Is there any evidence indicating it was deliberate? 24.128.56.150 06:46, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to ask the same question. If no source attesting to the fact that Poe deliberately avoided the letter "Z," then it should be deleted; "Z" is not a common letter at any rate. Impaciente 03:14, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Should this include the book "Sans E"? I have heard things about this, but cannot track it down... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.58.50.60 (talk • contribs) 15 January 2006

Perhaps we could reach a compromise by omitting an uncommon letter like J, X, Q, or Z? ✏✎✍✌✉✈✇✆✃✄Ⓠ‽ (talk) 22:19, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I have trimmed the example a bit more. On paragraph is enough to illustrate the concept. The deleted test follows. All the best, --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 05:05, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

"A lipogram author avoiding that symbol which follows D, with F following it, may only apply 25 of 26 total glyphs in his font.
Writing a lipogram is a trivial task for uncommon symbols such as Z, J, or X, but significant additional difficulty is found using common symbols such as that fifth symbol, T or A. Writing this way, an author must omit many ordinary words, commonly arriving at an archaic-sounding manuscript that is difficult to absorb. Construction of high quality lipograms is atypical, providing a skill trial for authors."

§==Simpsons quote==

Is the simpsons quote really about lipography? It could be just be that Lenny has a diminutive intelligence, therefore, couldn't remember the word 'worker' or 'employee'.

Hey, It could be the case. Zero R 07:55, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Monosyllablic reductions

I added links to versions of Pilgrim's Progress and Robinson Crusoe "in words of one syllable" as being of interest perhaps. Is there a name for this form? Is there a better place to put them? 88888 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88888 (talk • contribs) 17:46, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Spanish

Regarding: "A Spanish translation instead omits the letter A, the most common letter in that language. " Oh? Not according to: http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Letter_frequency#cite_note-0 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.170.62.95 (talk) 15:01, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Another question about Spanish: in the History section, the article claims that the English translation of "Un marido sin vocación" is "A Vocationless Husband," but the word "vocación" means "vocation," not "vacation." A more correct translation would be "A Husband Without a Career." Input from Spanish speakers would be welcomed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.21.105.129 (talk) 23:57, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

The Cyberiad

Another amusing example of an English lipogram would be in the English translation of the Polish writer Stanilav Lem's short story collection titled The Cyberiad. In one of the stories the robot "constructor" Trurl builds a machine to automatically write poetry, an "Electronic Bard". His friend and rival Klapacius, trying to discredit Trurl's accomplishment, gives the machine an over-the-top difficult assignment, "a poem about a haircut! But lofty, nobel, tragic, timeless, full of love, treachery, retribution, quiet heroism in the face of certain doom! Six lines, cleverly rhymed, and every word beginning with the letter "s"!"

The machine shames Klaupacius with a perfect answer:

Seduced, shaggy Samson snored.

She scissored short. Sorely shorn,

Soon shackled slave, Samson sighed,

Silently scheming,

Sightlessly seeking

Some savage, spectacular suicide.

12.54.94.26 (talk) 21:15, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

That's not really a lipogram (it omits certain letters, true, but the point is the use of S, not the omission of any particular letters). - dcljr (talk) 08:30, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Agreed; that poem is an example of constrained writing, but not a lipogram. Klbrain (talk) 11:27, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Mary Had a Little Lamb

In the Mary Had a Little Lamb example, are the headings Original, Without "S":, etc., part of the original poem (i.e., a single seven-stanza poem containing those headings within it) or were they added merely for reference by a WP editor? I ask because I have converted all (other) single-letter references in the article from quotes ("E", "T", …) to italics (E, T, …), but I didn't do that to the Mary example because I wasnt sure if the headers were part of Eckler's original text. - dcljr (talk) 08:24, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Brandreth's Shakespeare Lipograms

After attempting to find any proof that this book exists, I ended up emailing Brandreth. He replied:

I had some fun with lipograms in my book "The Joy of Lex" about 35 years ago and speculated on the possibilities of rewriting Shakespeare lipogrammatically - but, alas, I never got round to it. And now I am embarked on writing a series of murder mysteries featuring Oscar Wilde and his circle, so that I fear I never will! All the best, Gyles

This may count as original research, but when the only evidence is a forty year old book of lists (which itself didn't include any citation regarding the book's existence) and the purported author claims it was never written, I feel it's safe to delete the erroneous info. -mtkahn 14 November, 2015 01:25 am (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mtkahn (talk • contribs)

x

I wonder if Edgar Allan Poe's minor tale "X-ing a Paragrab" deserves mention here. -- Naaman Brown (talk) 15:30, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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This is the link to the table of contents for the issue that contained Mary had a Lipogram and the journal's copyright can be seen within as well: Word Ways vol 2 issue 3. Wugapodes [t^hɑk] [ˈkan.ˌʧɹɪbz] 03:13, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Lipogram

I am not agree with the given history on wikipedia in the reference of Lipogram. This can't be true without an available scripture. Amitreenujain (talk) 04:40, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

we have the true history of Lipogram. We can give if wikipedia like. Amitreenujain (talk) 04:42, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Lipogram

No suitable example is given on wikipedia in the reference of Lipogram by which anybody could understand this betterly. Amitreenujain (talk) 06:18, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Lipogram of letter A

A young man named Chibuzor Victor Obih published a lipogram novel titled 'Lost In the Forest of November: A book without the letter A'. The book can be found on Amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Forest-November-Chibuzor-Victor-ebook/dp/B0C3ZJW1GZ Akoeyo (talk) 02:08, 16 January 2024 (UTC)