Talk:Lieutenant Kijé (Prokofiev)

Lieutenant Kijé (Prokofiev) is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on December 21, 2016.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
September 30, 2016	Featured article candidate	Promoted

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Lieutenant Kijé (Prokofiev) article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Classical music: Compositions

	Classical music portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical music, which aims to improve, expand, copy edit, and maintain all articles related to classical music, that are not covered by other classical music related projects. Please read the guidelines for writing and maintaining articles. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.Classical musicWikipedia:WikiProject Classical musicTemplate:WikiProject Classical musicClassical music articles
	This article is supported by Compositions task force.

Film: American

	Film portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Film. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please refer to the documentation. To improve this article, please refer to the guidelines.FilmWikipedia:WikiProject FilmTemplate:WikiProject Filmfilm articles
	This article is supported by the American cinema task force.

Russia: Performing arts Mid‑importance

	Russia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the performing arts in Russia task force.

Getting discussion page going

Since the talk page was blank, I copied the boxes from the Peter and the Wolf discussion page and pasted it here, changing the auto to 'no' and rating it a 'start'. Not sure if the film soundtrack belongs in American task force so I've left it blank. This is a popular work of classical music and deserves further attention. Jusda fax 10:06, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Puppet version

Growing up in Surrey in the 80's we were shown a puppet version of the Lieutenant Kije story a few times. It was probably past of an educational series. I would love to get hold of a copy, does anyone know anything about it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.170.103 (talk) 02:45, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Troika

The references to Troika in the article link to the dance page, yet this suggests the movement describes a journey in the three-horse carriage of that name.
And the piece in the suite [1] doesn't sound much like the dance tune [2].
Does anyone know the truth of it? Moonraker12 (talk) 16:58, 29 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're right. The way the piece is used in other contexts and how it is usually described suggests indeed a stronger link to the three-horse carriage than to the dance; the wikilink should reflect that.

PS: The wording of that sentence would be improved by capitalising "Troika" and inserting the word "movement": "The Troika movement is frequently used in films …". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 00:48, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that, and for the suggestion; I’ll change them accordingly.

As it turns out, the entire film is on Youtube, and the film page has a link to it: And the Troika movement (at 0.46 mins) does, in fact, illustrate a Troika journey.

The film is an interesting watch BTW; it’s nice to hear and see Prokofiev’s music in context. Moonraker12 (talk) 16:22, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Troika has always made me think of the folk song Billy Boy, at least as I've heard that song performed. I don't know if Prokofiev drew upon any folk elements (or if, conversely, performers of the folk song were thinking of Prokofiev), but there's enough similarity that I can't help connecting the two. Richard K. Carson (talk) 04:23, 24 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Informal peer review comments

Looks quite good. I've heard of the piece but am glad to learn of the particulars. A few comments:

"various distinguished composers were ready to try their hand at film music, among whom Prokofiev was not an obvious choice for the Russian film industry ..." I'm not sure the "among whom" works as you have to go well back in the sentence past a different noun to figure out what it refers to. I might recast as "... film music was often written by distinguished composers. Prokofiev, despite his Russian heritage, was not an obvious choice." (that is, cut "the Russian film industry")

"Based in Paris for almost a decade, he had acquired a reputation for experimentation and dissonance, characteristics at odds with the prevailing cultural norms of the Soviet regime." I'd cut "acquired", "characteristics", and "prevailing", also ...

I think I have to keep "characteristics", but otherwise reworded as you suggest. Brianboulton (talk) 22:41, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"regime" as in "government we don't like"? I would avoid.

"two best-selling songs" I'm not thrilled with this, as songs do not sell as such, at least in the US. I might say "two hit songs"

"from the revolutionary government" I'd toss a "Bolshevik" into the mix for those who do not care to follow the October Revolution link.

"he thern stayed briefly" typo (am doing this offline)

"The Russian government," to avoid quibbles I might say "Moscow officials" or simply "Moscow".

The explanatory mention of the USSR's formation might well be placed in the notes.

- I've shortened the explanation, but left it in the text. Brianboulton (talk) 22:41, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"visit" in connection with his going to the USSR. I would avoid as there might be a quibble as to whether he was visiting or returning to his homeland. Possibly say that he journeyed to the USSR in 1927, and substitute "trips" for "visits" in the additional use.

"on disc" possibly a pipe to the appropriate technology, as the modern reader may think of it as a CD or similar.

I imagine it was Aluminum disc but nothing in the sources refers to a particular technology. I've generalised the text slightly. Brianboulton (talk) 22:41, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"By this time, in the Soviet Union the young Dimitri Shostakovich had already begun his prolific career as a composer of film sound-tracks, with The New Babylon in 1929 and Alone in 1931." consider moving the first comma to after "Union"

"In 1932" it's my thought that this might be a good start to a new paragraph

"The composer's first response was a firm refusal." Hardly firm. Perhaps "strong", or "forceful"?

The verb "failed" is used twice within a short proximity, though the "1933 film" heading separates them.

"his caustic wit and sharp humour" leaving aside the exact method of destruction, aren't these the same thing?

"A ceremonial funeral " aren't they all? I'm not sure if this refers to elaborateness or the lack of a guest of honour.
"one of several works, including the Classical Symphony, The Love of Three Oranges, Cinderella, and War and Peace, that show "the composer's fondness for the eighteenth century"" I assume the music of the 18th century?
"has drawn attention to" maybe "points out"?

"In Paris in 1928" possibly not the strongest way to open the sentence
"an optional vocal part for baritone voice." is "voice" implied?

Maybe, but there are baritone horns, baritone saxophones and baritone guitars, so I think it's best to be explicit. Brianboulton (talk) 22:41, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Excellently done.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:01, 22 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wehwalt Many thanks for these comments, very helpful. I've only responded when I've not followed your suggestions. A bit of final polishing, perhaps, before I bring it to FAC. Brianboulton (talk) 22:41, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

TFAR

Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/Lieutenant Kijé (Prokofiev) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:51, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Lieutenant Kijé (Prokofiev). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160816093516/https://www.sfsymphony.org/Watch-Listen-Learn/Read-Program-Notes/Program-Notes/Prokofiev-Lieutenant-Kije-Suite,-Opus-60.aspx to https://www.sfsymphony.org/Watch-Listen-Learn/Read-Program-Notes/Program-Notes/Prokofiev-Lieutenant-Kije-Suite,-Opus-60.aspx

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:32, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Troika as a carol?

Besides its use in Greg Lake's "I Believe in Father Christmas," isn't there a song or carol that uses the Troika melody? With lyrics something like "The ringing of the bells on Christmas Day ... "? I've looked everywhere and can't find it. 2600:100E:B00E:3255:9D53:3743:9D2:A837 (talk) 14:42, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Alas, the main author of the article, the late Brian Boulton, is no longer with us. I bet he'd have been able to answer your question, but I'm sorry to say that I can't. I hope someone else can. Tim riley talk 20:54, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]