Talk:Liam Neeson/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Liam Neeson. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

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Archive 5

References

The references for this page appear to be nonexistent. Am I missing something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.169.52.102 (talk) 20:13, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Lincoln project

Has the Lincoln project been confirmed yet? I know it's on IMDb, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. nmw 19:45, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Never mind--it's confirmed. However, Liam as Rufus Scrimgour in HBP seems extremely far-fetched. They haven't signed the Trio for that yet--they haven't even fully cast OotP. Unless someone can come up with some documentation, I've removed this as unverifiable. nmw 10:30, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Quitting Hollywood

Didn't Liam say he was going to quit Hollywood back in the early 1990's because he was tired of the politics, etc? What happened?

Les MIserable a very big movie and everyone seemingly forget played oppisite of geofferey rush same guy who put it down there i just thought it was funny how ya'll forgot my name is liam. whats this movie about —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.115.12.19 (talk) 22:18, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Attack of the Clones

Shouldn't he be credited in the filmography for the appearance of his voice (as Qui-Gon Jinn) in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones? kallemax 20:37, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes he should be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tlafemina (talk • contribs) 02:49, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

This is a very silly argument - Liam is technically British since he was born in the UK and, if he worked in NI, he would pay his taxes to the British government. You don't do that if you are Irish. However, he carries Irish citizenship and sees himself as Irish, which he is perfectly entitled to do. Ulster people need to stop finding things to argue about in this issue - I come from NI, carry a British passport but think of myself as Irish and proud of it. Why not? A Scotsman carries a British passport but is proud to be Scottish... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.194.150 (talk) 09:33, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Rufus Scrimgeour

More than one person has tried to put up here that he has been cast as Rufus Scrimgeour in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. Can anyone offer evidence to verify this?

I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever. Given that they haven't fully cast Order of the Phoenix--which isn't being released until 2007--and that no director has been selected for HBP, I find it highly unlikely that any serious casting decisions have been made yet.nmw 08:55, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

has everyone forgotten les miserable the movie anyone now he played the lead jean valjont(probably wrong spelling)

Ahem...could we be any more cliched?

'In fact, as a young man most of his friends were Protestants'? Would the Ballymena Tourist official who wrote this please stop! El Gringo 23:02, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Why does the Shindler's list bit at beginning even require a citation? Every time someone mentions him I think "that move where he played a Nazi but redeems himself" on those rare times were i go "hey it's Ra's al Ghul!". We're getting a little too slaphappy with the citations, some things are just givens. I'd think anti-Nazi goes right to the point. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Loki's Valentine (talk • contribs) 17:07, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, citations are required even if the information stated appears to be a "given" to you or others -- to the other side of that coin, there are others where it does not appear to be a "given". Our beloved citations help reduce the problem of ambiguity. CaptainMorgan (talk) 20:22, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

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Keysi Fighting Method

I was looking at the news section of the Keysi Fighting Method web site ([1]), and it says:

"Paul Jennings, one of Hollywood's top Stunt Co-ordinators, along with top Hollywood stuntman Buster Reeves have both been inducted into the KFM family at the latest Summer Camp held during the month of July in Valencia, Spain.

This means that Paul and Buster are amongst a select few along with Liam Neeson (top Hollywood actor) to receive the prestigious KFM family ring."

That seems to indicate that Liam Neeson practices Keysi, doesn't it? As it says he (along with others) have been inducted to the "KFM family" and recived the "KFM family ring", it seems to imply that Liam is a practitioner of Keysi. If so, then shouldn't the article mention his involvement in Keysi? 141.154.165.110 05:28, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

LOL, you seem a little unsure of yourself, i suggest you go ahead and add it, youve got a source.

Nationality

Someone has edited the intro. from Liam being called an Irish actor to this:

"Born in Ballymena, Northern Ireland, he is a British citizen but identifies with Irish nationalism."

I'm afraid I don't find this to be a useful way of describing his nationality. People from Northern Ireland have a legal right not just to Irish identity, but also to Irish citizenship. Liam has called himself an Irish citizen (I can't find the article, but it was in the interview in the now-defunct "George" magazine"--anyone know where to find that article?) and also in other sources he has called himself Irish. Saying that he "identifies with Irish nationalism" implies political affiliations that have nothing to do with whether he can accurately be called Irish or not and are, probably, unprovable in Liam's case. I see no point in not calling him Irish, but I am revising this to leave nationality terms out of it. Nuclare 00:09, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I found the article with the "I'm an Irish citizen" quote from Neeson. If "Irish actor" gets put back in there, here's a supporting citation: Magazine name: George. "Liam Neeson's Private Galaxy." June 1999. Lloyd Grove (writer).

It's at http://www.liamneeson-fansite.com/main.htm under 'Press.' Nuclare 00:49, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Apologies, I misunderstood the situation. Cop 633 14:00, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Didn't Neeson get an OBE though? Irish citizens are not entitled to full OBEs, as the Republic is not part of the Commonwealth, see Pierce Brosnan. Surely this proves he is "officialy" British. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.136.35.213 (talk) 15:24, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I pressume he is technically a British citizen (in addition to being an Irish citizen), but technicality doesn't seem a good means to chose how to introduce an actors' nationality/identity. In any event, pretty much no actors from any part of the U.K. are described as 'British' in their opening Wiki paragraphs. I think there is a policy at play concerning these issues. Nuclare (talk) 00:06, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Picture

No offence to whoever took (or uploaded) the infobox picture, but are we really that desperate for one of Neeson? I suggest we remove it (or place it elsewhere in the article) until a clearer (and preferably face on) photograph of Neeson can be attained. -- My NameIs URL 23:23, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The fact is, its a free use image, that's what's important. Now I would prefer a better one as well, but that is the only free use image on Flickr. I suggest it stays there, until a clearer face on image can be obtained, and then moved elsewhere in the article. A free use image, no matter what it is like, its better than nothing or a fair use image. Gran² 06:16, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

A free use image, no matter what it is like, its better than nothing or a fair use image. I'm not at all sure it is, in this case! But if it's to stay, that's fine. :-) -- My NameIs URL 15:53, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Well I mean, obviously if its just their leg or arm its rubbish and can't be used, but I mean, this is just side on. You can see alot of his face, and enough to tell its him. If a better can be found the I suggest, using the full uncropped version of the current one, elsewhere in the article or something. But for now, I think this is alright. Gran² 16:51, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

How the hell can you tell who he is, just by looking at the back of his head?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.43.180.69 (talk • contribs) Jul 15, 2007

Most people use their eyes. Anyway it was a side on shot, and there's a better image now anyway. Gran² 17:18, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 06:09, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Filmography

Shining Through (1992) is missing from his film credits. He worked on this film with his future sister-in-law, Joely Richardson. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.137.209.171 (talk) 14:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Liam Neeson appeared as Blackie in the 1984 Mini Series, "A Woman of Substance," by Barbara Taylor Bradford. It starred Deborah Kerr and Barry Bostwick. Liam Neeson had a very substantial roll. eleliza —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eleliza (talk • contribs) 16:30, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Irish

Changed it back. Here's the self-definition: 'I grew up in Ballymena, a hardworking town, like in most of Northern Ireland. But let's just say, I'm Irish. I grew up in the 1950s. Religion had a very tight iron fist.' found here: http://celebritybazar.com/liam_neeson/quotes.shtml —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.119.12 (talk) 16:33, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

If Neeson was born in NI, that would make him a UKer. GoodDay (talk) 22:00, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Eh, no. Someone born in NI can be British, Irish, or both, as s/he wishes. That quote self-identifies him as Irish. Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 22:53, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Okie Dokie. GoodDay (talk) 23:56, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

He may self identify as Irish, true enough, but can we prove he has renounced his British citizenship? Otherwise describing him as British is technically correct. I agree he should be described as Irish if that's what he says. Canterbury Tail talk 02:11, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Otherwise describing him as British is technically correct. Maybe. But not necessarily...because if you want to approach this as "technical," than you have to keep it technical. The statement "X is legally a British citizen" may be technical and technically correct, but treating that statement as identical to "X is British" leaves the realm of the technical and shifts the meaning of the statement into the very non-technical realm of applying identity to people. Nuclare (talk) 05:02, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

He has not renounced his British nationality or he couldn't have accepted the OBE. :) I have no objection to dual British-Irish nationality being added, so long as it is sourced. ;) Best, --Cameron * 12:08, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't matter whether he's renounced his British citizenship and and it doesn't matter that he accepted an award offered to him and it also doesn't matter what Britannica calls him. The question is what is the BEST way for him to be identified, and he appears to most commonly call himself Irish, which is the best way for us to determine his identity. Pretty much no actors from the U.K. are called 'British actors' on Wiki, so singling out--of all people!--a Catholic from Northern Ireland to call British just sounds like trouble-making. Nuclare (talk) 15:27, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Cameron: Just curious if you are planning, Cameron, to add "British" to every UK actor's bio intro or is it just Liam Neeson you plan on singling out? Why specifically are you interested in adding British to Mr. Neeson's bio when almost no English, Welsh, Scottish or Protestant Northern Irish actors are called British on Wiki. Is there something of particular Britishness about this particular actor who self-identifies as Irish? Is he more British than English actors? Or are you just trying to make your own political point and singling out one of the more famous Irish Catholics from Northern Ireland to do it? Nuclare (talk) 20:58, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Firstly, please assume good faith. Secondly, yes if it were down to me all articles about people from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would be called British and not any other semi-national demonyms. There is absolutely no reason to bring religion into this matter. Neeson holds dual Irish-British nationality, I really don't see what the problem is. Best, --Cameron * 21:15, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Problem #1 is that the way you have it written just looks bad--completely awkward. #2. Policy on this very issue states that self-identification should be taken into consideration when making these decisions. With this source, [2], it makes three in which LN has self-identified as Irish (not to mention that he calls himself Irish twice in the first source). And I have a fourth that I can't find online: It's from a book called "Leading Hollywood", author Aine O'Connor (Wolfhound Press. 1996). Here's some quotes from LN from it: a)"When I was growing up I felt I was Irish." (p. 58) b)"...I certainly felt Irish, and proud of it." (p. 59) c)"I honestly don't know how being Irish has affected me as regards my profession, other than that I feel at ease showing emotion on screen--be it anger or sympathy or having to cry. But I am Irish, I'm from that stock, and I think it must have effects." (p. 59) I can assure you that he does not call himself British anywhere in this fourth source. That's four separate sources self-identifying as Irish. You've provided one secondary source in which he is called British by others. I could provide more than one secondary source (on top of the four primary, self-id sources) that call him Irish, but somehow you want to treat these as equal, and then say that you don't know what the problem is. Neeson calls himself an Irish citizen in the first source; he had ample opportunity there to say that he was a dual British/Irish citizen. He did not. He doesn't mention British citizenship at all. And you didn't answer the question as to why you are singling Neeson out of all the U.K. people that theorectically could be but aren't called 'British' on Wiki--many of whom no doubt do actually self-identify as British and have primary British identity--why Neeson? #3. Legal British citizenship does not equate to British identity and in Northen Ireland the right to not be British in identity is enshrined in international agreement and "He is a British actor" is a statement that implies more than legal citizenship. So, unless you can provide the sources to show that a) he has British identity and b) this British identity rivals his obvious, self-identifying Irish identity, than there is no justification for putting both and implying that they are equal. Nuclare (talk) 05:55, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I've reworded it to make it less awkward. I haven't got a problem with you moving his dual British nationality down to another section. What I have got a problem with is you entirely removing a sourced fact. However usually self identification would be added to "personal life", with the bear facts being listed in the intro. Best, --Cameron * 11:29, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

It is not a sourced "fact" that he is British; you have merely cited somebody who claims he is British. I can cite you a "fact" that there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, if you really want to be obtuse about this? He was born in Ireland, and most of all he explicitly defines himself as Irish, not British. You are simply trying to impose your identity on the man. Dunlavin Green (talk) 12:28, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

There is no need to get personal. How do you know I am British? For all you know, I could be Irish. I will also be reinstating the OBE which is not a minor award. There is no reason not to include such a notable post nominal. Thank you, --Cameron * 12:40, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

He is, by his own definition, Irish. Therefore it doesn't really matter what anybody else wants to call him.Dunlavin Green (talk) 02:03, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Neeson is British. GoodDay (talk) 15:56, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

GoodDay stop trolling he says he is Irish so he is Irish. BigDunc^Talk 16:08, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Ouch, my nose hurts. GoodDay (talk) 16:09, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

BigDunc, please assume good faith, GoodDay had a valid point. I have made compromises, I have ommitted his dual British from the intro due to "sensitivities" and moved it to the personal life section. Removing this information is a violation of the Wikipedia:Vandalism policy. --C * 17:10, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Cameron read WP:AAGF this is not the first time you have described an Irish person as British against the views of the subject as can be seen here. BigDunc^Talk 17:19, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad to see you're keeping an eye on me! ;) Nadine's situation is rather similar. I understand people are rather sensitive about nationality in Northern Ireland. I don't want to seem the bad guy, but sourced information should stay. PS:The reason I cited AGF was due to your accusations of trolling. --Cameron * 17:45, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

It still comes across as an unnecessary singling of Neeson out. If it was an honorary award, it would be identified as such. Nuclare (talk) 04:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Basically, what I was getting at, is Neeson was born in Northern Ireland (thus in a sense, he's British). I wasn't questioning what he self-described himself as. Anyways, no harm done. GoodDay (talk) 17:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

PS: Looking forward to his movie Lincoln. GoodDay (talk) 17:31, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I am not sure how this works - if I was born in the United Kingdom but I said I 'felt' French, would that mean I would be called 'French' in my Wikipedia article? Is Wikipedia based on personal feelings or fact? I know it is a difficult subject but if anything, shouldn't the article mention he is Northern Irish rather than just Irish, in the introduction at least? —Preceding unsigned comment added by SaintDaveUK (talk • contribs) 16:43, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

This is not just a question of "feeling" Irish. In Neeson's case he calls himself an Irish "citizen." The *fact* is Northern Ireland people have no less right to Irish citizenship then a person from any other part of Ireland. NI also has an international agreement in place signed by the U.K. and Irish governments endorsing the right of NI people to be accepted as "Irish, British or both as they so choose." There is no such agreement between France and the U.K. And there is no such citizenship circumstance that exists for U.K. people in relation to French citizenship. Beyond the legal citizenship issue, the U.K. is also not located on an island called "France," which means that--unlike Northern Ireland in relation to "Irish"--there is no direct geographic or ethnic or cultural connection between being from the U.K. and being French. This is not about feelings. Neeson's Irishness is fact. The article and the info. box both clearly state that Neeson is from Northern Ireland. Nuclare (talk) 04:02, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

OK thanks for clearing that up. Just unsure was all --SaintDaveUK (talk) 16:28, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

So Neeson was born in that part of Ireland that remains under British colonial rule in 2009 and because of this latter fact that "in a sense makes him British"? Hello? Great, so the Indians, Irish, Nigerians and the rest of the planet who had the misfortune to be the punchbags for the British were all "in a sense British" when they were born in their respective countries while they were under British rule. 25% of the world's population must therefore have been "in a sense British" just because the British occupied their countries and, in the true tradition of that famous (in, well, Britain) traditional British sense of fair play, subjugated the (savage) natives. Liam Neeson is Irish. The days of the British telling the Irish what they are are long over- just like your barbarous, fanatical experiment, the British Empire. 78.16.230.15 (talk) 22:37, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

perhaps you could take your anti-British rant onto YouTube, I'm sure they'd appreciate it much more there. For now let's put the violins away and focus on the article. D33te (talk) 13:22, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

That guy a couple of comments up who was ranting about British colonial rule - are you half wise? There's a very distinct difference between countries under British colonial rule during the time of the 'Empire' and Northern Ireland, which is a fully integrated region of the United Kingdom. Those who live in NI are British and entitled to carry British passports, unlike those who lived in countries occupied by the British. This is a perfect example of how mindless Republican rhetoric has unhelpfully distorted this whole argument over the years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.194.150 (talk) 09:41, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

The English or "British" as they decided to term themselves when they needed Scottish cannonfodder to create their empire in the seventeenth century have treated this part of Ireland as a colony since, at least, this guy in the 1570s. It is self-serving British nationalistic rubbish to now say that Ireland has not been, and this part of Ireland is not, a colony of England, or "Britain" as the now extended state of England is called. Oh, and by the way, I have a PhD in early modern Irish history so, unlike you, or your fellow British nationalists, I do know what I am talking about and why you and your fellow travellers are eager to proclaim this newly [not quite so] conquered land of Ireland as an integral part of what you are now calling the "United Kingdom". You can dress it up, but 17% of Ireland remains under British colonial rule in 2009. 78.16.154.133 (talk) 20:53, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

When it comes to guys like Gerry Adams I don't see you people trying to claim him as British. No, no. It's always the Liam Neeson's of the world. You have your crappy actors like Hugh Grant, we have Liam Neeson. He's Irish, deal with it.--Ian Hoare (talk) 12:27, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Can I suggest that everyone stays calm and civil? Thanks. Fences and windows (talk) 22:32, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Liam is a catholic, born in a country that was carved up by the Irish and British. Almost all catholics refer to themselves as Irish, all protestants will describe themselves as Northern Irish and British. This is the way of things in Northern Ireland. I know, I was born there. As for Hugh Grant....is he an actor?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by patricia lambe 27/03/0982.19.253.214 (talk) 09:07, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Fact is, he's British. He's born and raised in Northern Ireland by Northern Irish parents - and NI is part of Britain. Those are the facts. It does not matter what he considers hismelf to be - opinions are not sources on wikipedia remember

Stay civil. Nobody is poaching anyone. He was born in Northern Ireland, so it is really his choice whether to self-identify as British or Irish. Encyclopedia Britannica also lists him as Irish:[3]. And the Google test: "Irish actor Liam Neeson": 7,150; "British actor Liam Neeson": 15. Fences and windows (talk) 22:07, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

He's Irish as he claims to be. And how are there people on wikipedia with the power to edit pages and not even know that NI is not part of Britain? He claims he is Irish and he is born in a place which allows him to do so, therefore he is Irish. I removed a section from an unsigned person who had nothing to add to the debate other than racist and generally stupid and irrelevant comments. User:Jamie Kelly

Siblings

The article says that he is the only boy out of four children. Is this correct? I have heard it said from people in Ballymena that he has a living brother. Can anyone please verify this?--jeanne (talk) 09:30, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

From which Ballymena people have you heard this said? I don't have them handy, but from all the interviews I recall reading about Neeson, he has always been identified as having three sisters, no brothers. Nuclare (talk) 16:06, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I met his cousin once in a London pub-this was back in 1989 and I could have sworn he said Liam had a brother. Oh well, perhaps I'm getting senile. At my age, the memory can be a sly traitor.--jeanne (talk) 16:14, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

He is the only boy of four children. Third eldest. 100%. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.88.69 (talk) 18:30, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

--Ian Hoare (talk) 12:25, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism

Addition of term "Liam Neesoned" is fictional, and is directed by a webcomic: http://limitededitionwebcomic.com/?p=289 Fences and windows (talk) 06:42, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Request to change to a semi-protect

I am making a request to change the page to a semi-protect, as there are edits that need to be made, especially with respect to Liam Neeson's late wife. Thank you. --AEMoreira042281 (talk) 00:19, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Religion?

Does anyone know if Liam Neeson is a Christian? And does anyone know if his wife was a Christian? --65.12.149.195 (talk) 12:13, 19 March 2009 (UTC)Person who view wikipedia

Liam Neeson was himself in a serious motorcycle accident in July of 2000. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.247.71.99 (talk) 02:58, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

liam neesom

Wasn't Liam in A Woman Of Substance? There is no mention of this in his career biography. I believe he also plays the priest in gangs of new york but there was no mention of that either —Preceding unsigned comment added by patricia lambe 27/03/0982.19.253.214 (talk) 08:42, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Irish vs Irish-American

Neeson has just become a US citizen. Does this mean he stops being described as an Irish actor, for which there is already a self-definition. It would seem not as, upon accepting US citizenship, he had this to say: "I've been living here for 20 years and America's been very very good to me," he said. "I'm still a proud Irishman, of course, but I've become an American citizen. I'm very, very proud of that."(BBC website today: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8223680.stm). So, it would seem that he is still an Irish actor, rather than "Irish-American' as somebody has just changed it to, even if he has become a US citizen. 86.44.21.184 (talk) 00:52, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I thought the same thing when I watched the interview, so I've changed the wording slightly. It appears that his American citizenship is secondary to his cultural identification as an Irishman. Additionally, the Irish American article linked from this page doesn't strictly refer to the same people as Neeson; those are people born in America with Irish ancestry. Bradley0110 (talk) 08:36, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I've added 'British born' to his nationality in the same manner as Terry Gilliam, who is described as an American born British director. His citizenship and his self identification don't alter his prior citizenship or country of birth, so removing this is simply playing mindless politics as this is the generally accepted way of writing confused nationalities within bios on the wiki. 90.218.6.182 (talk) 15:18, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

No, it isn't. "Scottish", "English" and "Welsh" are used all the time instead of British. O Fenian (talk) 15:42, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Well the change to Northern Irish born then instead of British. Either way, using his self determined nationality is fine, but using it as the sole source is obscuring facts. Otherwise from the brief bio it would seem he was born and raised in the Republic, which isn't true. Why is it so hard for you to admit that he was actually born in the UK? 90.218.6.182 (talk) 15:49, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Because it is his right to self-identify as Irish, no matter how difficult it is to accept for British nationalists? O Fenian (talk) 15:55, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I am not a 'British nationalist' and this is why it is impossible to argue with Irish nationalist editors as you're all so bloody paranoid that anything that disagrees with your narrow woldview is some form of plot! IT ISN'T. My only commitment is to the facts. I respect his right to self identify, and I couldn't care less. It isn't an issue, and I didn't try to remove it. What I did was clarify his legal citizenship at birth, in the same way birth names are listed alongside stage names to clarify what the self defined identity is, but what the legal one is too. Removing this information is only obscuring facts to your own, frankly bizarre, agenda. 90.218.6.182 (talk) 16:12, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually, Neeson was born in Ireland and therefore is an Irishman first. To say he is "British born" when he wasn't born in Britain is simply misinformed. That Neeson describes himself as Irish is a statement of the obvious. If you want to claim he is "British" because he was born in a part of Ireland that is still under British rule then by the same logic all the people of Ireland were "British" prior to December 1922. Indeed any country on earth the British decided to impose their law over would similarly be "British". Patently ridiculous at best, and racist and imperialist at worst.78.16.10.27 (talk) 09:46, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

It's a step too far to call a British editor who thinks anyone born in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is "British" a racist. They might be strictly speaking wrong, but perfectly well-meaning, as Neeson is still a UK citizen. Fences&Windows 04:26, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

"William John "Liam" Neeson, OBE (born 7 June 1952, Ballymena, Northern Ireland) is an Irish actor who has been an American citizen since 2009". How's that? Then in the first sentence of the lead we have the fact that he was born in Northern Ireland, satisfying Brits, we have that he is Irish, satisfying the Irish, and we have his American citizenship, satisfying the Americans and without the confusing "Irish-American" tag. Fences&Windows 21:47, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

That sounds fine to me, but as a poster below notes Anthony Hopkins has been a US citizen for years and there is no mention of it in the lede: Hopkins is simply described as a Welsh actor. The same should probably apply here. 78.16.10.27 (talk) 09:46, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Fine, I don't care either way about including his American citizenship in the lead. Fences&Windows 04:26, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Edit War

As the recent revert by RepublicanJacobite states, I can't be bothered with an edit war as it is trivial and pointless. But please hear this point.

His self identification is totally independent of his legal citizenship or his nationality at birth. Can any of you give me a genuine reason why both can't be listed? I am not trying to remove the irish portion. That is fact. I'm just trying to clarify what isn't a clear cut issue, as a quick scan of the opening paragraph would have you believe he was an irish citizen born in the republic. I've been accused of nationalist sentiment by Fenian, why I totally reject. I'm only trying to assert facts.

I also accuse hypocrisy here seeing as Fenian started bringing up UVF references of all things, showing that he, not me is the nationalist here, and from the edit histories and usernames of a lot of editors here, it's clear there is a heavy Irish nationalist presence.

All I'm asking is you put your prejudices to one side and look at this impartially. He is Irish. He is also American. And he was, and possibly still is, British. The fact that nobody has an issue discussing his American citizenship, but reverts instantly as soon as his (legal and factual) British citizenship is discussed proves to me that it is simple bigotry and racism governing these reverts, not an impartial assesment of the man's nationality. 90.218.6.182 (talk) 16:25, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

"Can any of you give me a genuine reason why both can't be listed?" Well, because, you see, there's this little thing called variously the Belfast Agreement or the Good Friday Agreement; it's an international agreement signed by both the Irish and British govts. In it, the right of NI people to be accepted by their self-identification ("Irish or British or both" is how it is worded) is enshrined. In other words, no automatically calling everyone in NI 'British' (and no automatically calling everyone in NI 'Irish' either). In 2009, the only people who insist on calling everyone from Northern Ireland British simply because they are from Northern Ireland are deeply insecure loyalists (thus Fenian's UVF reference, I imagine) and the uneducated. I will assume you are the latter. Given how passionate you seem on this subject, when the best even you can do is to say that he "possibly still is British", why should anyone else embrace the idea that that identity term should be right up there in the first sentence along side what we KNOW he is and what he says he's proud to be?

"as a quick scan of the opening paragraph would have you believe he was an irish citizen born in the republic." There is nothing in the opening paragraph that suggests he was born in the Republic of Ireland. The suggestion made above of including his place of birth in the opening sentence is fine, if that will give you some comfort. But his place of birth is listed twice on the page, so it can hardly be argued that the article is suggesting he's from the Republic. Nuclare (talk) 00:26, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I am not Irish or British, but to make an observation it does seem weird to point out in the opening line that he has American Citizenship. I am sure that many foreign actors who live in America for many years also have American citizenship? Anthony Hopkins is an example, no need to put that he became an American citizen in the opening line. What is the difference here?--24.91.185.154 (talk) 01:01, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I tend to agree with you. I don't think the opening sentence has to be a litany of everything one is. Even in his comment about becoming a U.S. citizen he still is quick to put his Irishness first, so, perhaps, that is the 'best' choice of how to describe him and the other details can be given in the body of the article. Not that I think it's terrible that it's mentioned in the lede, but it wouldn't be how I would do it--if I were Wiki Goddess. :-) What I want to know, is do we actually know that he became a citizen in 2009? The only quote I've seen on the issue is this: "I've been living here for 20 years and America's been very, very good to me," he reflected. "I'm still a proud Irishman, of course, but I've become an American citizen. I'm very, very proud of that." I've heard people imply from this interview that he became a citizen since his wife's death, but do we know that is true? Is there more to what he said on this matter that confirms he didn't have citizenship earlier? I know Natasha R. had become a U.S. citizen a few years earlier--not that this means Liam did to, but I'm just trying to clarify what we know vs. what is being assumed. Nuclare (talk) 12:47, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Oops, I re-read the BBC source we are using for the article and *it* states that the outpouring after his wife's death prompted him to became a citizen. Then again, the quotations the BBC article uses don't actually confirm when he got his citizenship. I guess I need to shut up here and seek out a full transcript of the interview...Sorry! Nuclare (talk) 12:58, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I just watched a video of the whole interview. He does say in it that the outpouring from Americans to him after NR's death was one of the reasons he chose recently to become a U.S. citizen. So, nevermind! :-) Nuclare (talk) 13:15, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Rejection of Error Correction

I was a little surprised to have my correction of the nationality rejected by Wikipedia. Or maybe not once I noticed O Fenian must have automatically protested my amendment. As Liam was born in Northern Ireland I naturally assumed he was British and so edited to correct. If Tom Hanks' nationality had read as Canadian I'd have corrected it to American, hence the tweak to Liam's article. I realise now that as usual politics, not fact, still rule where anything to do with that region of the UK is concerned. It all comes across as a little petty and desperate this nationality tweaking and something Id hoped belonged to the last century. No offence to anyone, but let's try and make Wikipedia factual and not political. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.102.122.163 (talk) 23:27, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Look at the source provided Neeson identifies as Irish not British. BigDunc^Talk 23:29, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Your vandalism was rightly reverted. Neeson considers himself Irish, not British. "Irish actor Liam Neeson" 5440 results, "British actor Liam Neeson" 9 results. Please refrain from making any further incorrect edits regarding people who reject being called British. O Fenian (talk) 23:29, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia and its Irish Nationalist reality warpers! Don't check the article for Londonderry, it's a veritable fact-free zone! So what if he identifies as Irish? His citizenship is/was British (considering today he announced he'd gained US citizenship) so he is BOTH. In a legal sense he is/was British, and a cultural/ethnic sense Irish (as NI is still culturally in places and geographically everywhere Irish) 90.218.6.146 (talk) 22:33, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. Note that he is clearly a British citizen, as he was appointed (and was happy to accept) a substantive OBE rather than an honorary OBE (the former can only be awarded to citizens of a country ruled by the Queen). Odd for someone who "rejects being called British"! In fact, do we have any actual evidence whatsoever that he doesn't consider himself to be British as well as Irish (as many Northern Irish people do)? And British citizenship is not relinquished on becoming a citizen of another country - he now has dual British/US nationality and is still therefore a British citizen. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:02, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

You do realize that Irish citizenship is available to anyone from NI that wishes it, yes??? And that Neeson has described himself as an "Irish citizen"?? That he technically qualifies under British citizenship laws does not make 'British actor' the way Wiki should describe him. He had every opportunity in the interviews where we mentioned his Irish and now U.S. citizenship to say he was also a British citizen. He did not. Or in the recent one, he could have said something like he's a 'proud Irishman and proud to be British too". He did not. Nuclare (talk) 12:05, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF. Legally he is a British Citizen, unless he gave it up to gain US citizenship. Whether or not he considers himself that has zero status on his legal bearing as a citizen unless he chooses to renounce it legally. This is the exact same situation as the Londonderry article and a whole host of other Irish/British topics where politicised Irish editors conspire to alter fact and reality based on (their) bisased consensus rather than the legal and factual bearing of a situation. It's pathetic. 90.218.6.182 (talk) 15:12, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

He has the right to self-identify as Irish under the Good Friday Agreement, which he does. Reliable sources by their thousands describe him as Irish, compared to 9 (!!) for British. O Fenian (talk) 15:41, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Jesus Christ! From a seasoned wiki editor, I'd expect more than calling a Google search a reliable source, or did you check all those thousands of hits individually? I'm not altering his nationality, i'm adding a note to clarify that his brithplace was not the Republic of Ireland. Why is that such an issue for you for? 90.218.6.182 (talk) 15:51, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I do not need to check any individally, as it is clear the only people who say he is British seem to be ignorant people or UVF supporters. Irish = born in Ireland, British = born in Britain or people from Northern Ireland who self-identify as British, it is quite simple. O Fenian (talk) 15:54, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

No it is not. He accepted an OBE, which as an Irish citizen, he would ahve been ineligable, meaning at some point, if not even now, he was a British citizen. His legal status is independent of his cultural or ethnic status. You can self identify through that, but it doesn't change your legal status, so why not list both? What's the big deal? And as the OBE implies, it seems he doesn't have as much an issue with Britain as you do and are projecting on to him. How many dyed in the wool nationalists would accept the order of the Briish empire? Not a single one! Stop projecting your sectarian paranoia on him and everyone who disagrees with you 90.218.6.182 (talk) 16:16, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Please see the discussions above. This was quite settled until you arrived and decided to describe him as British. Please refrain from edit warring, and ideally produce a source where he self-identifies as British. O Fenian (talk) 16:19, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

IT ISN'T ABOUT SELF IDENTIFIACTION! How much clearer can I make that? I'm talking about LEGAL CITIZENSHIP STATUS. Until you can explain why this should not be included and stop ignoring the issue, you're clearly arguing from a biased perspective and there's no mileage debating you. 90.218.6.182 (talk) 16:27, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Ireland is an island, Britain is a seperate one beside it. Northern Ireland is not part of Britain. That is why the UK is called " The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". Many editors who know little or nothing, often learned from afar, come onto wikipedia and make changes which they often reason again from afar. As regarding citizenship, people born on any part of the island of Ireland, including Northern Ireland, are Irish, nominally, legally, ethnically. This includes people who are protestant or unionist. Identity, natioanality and politics are extremely complicated there, so please don't make glib changes unless you really understand what you are talking about. Best, Ktlynch (talk) 16:53, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

His name is Liam Neeson

Hi,

Mr Neeson's name is "Liam John Neeson", that is his given name, not "William John 'Liam' Neeson", Liam is not a nickname, adopted name or some folksy usage, but an actual proper noun, it will say that on his baptismal cert. Please do not change it to "William", this is only the English version to the extent that people's names can be translated at all. In articles about french people for instance, "Jean" is not some nickname, but his actual name. Best, Ktlynch (talk) 16:58, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Ethnicity

The article says Neeson comes from Northen Ireland. But what is his ethnicity and his religion? Meursault2004 11:01, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Liam Neeson can claim all he wants that he is Irish but he was born in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland therefore, he can claim to be Irish but he is of British birth. What relevance is it what people claim themselves? Huge numbers of Americans claim to be Irish because it is fashionable to do so or because their great grandpappy once had a pint of Guinness. Some people claim to be Napoleon. Neeson is Irish of British birth and that needs to be reflected in this article. And the Catholic reference is irrelevant with regards to his nationality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.26.241.6 (talk) 14:58, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

What the above poster fails to recognize is that Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain. Therefore nobody there is BRitish by birth...they can claim to be BRitish or Irish - people should accept the people's decision. If Liam says he is Irish then accept that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.16.72.27 (talk) 21:10, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

he's an Irish Catholic

yep changed it to Irish after all; thats how he defines himself Superdude99 18:59, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Changed it back to "Irish" rather than "Irish/American". Liam is not an American citizen; Natasha recently said in an interview that they were thinking of moving back to England. nmw 10:30, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Also, can someone document Liam or Natasha saying that their kids are being raised Catholic? Liam very seldom talks about his children--he's very protective of their privacy--and I find it hard to believe that he would mention their religious education in an interview. nmw 10:30, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

His place of Birth, Ballymena was recorded in the 2001 census (http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Ballymena#2001_Census) as being predominabtly Protestant. However, his portayal of Michael Collins would perhaps lead you to the conclusion that he had Catholic leanings. He also briefly attended St Mary's teaching school (http://liamneesonfanclub.tripod.com/biography.html), which would point towards his Catholic beliefs, (remember that Northern Ireland had tendancy towards secterianism in the education system at that time). 144.137.153.253 03:54, 17 February 2006 (UTC)Deepthought

We know that he was raised Catholic. The question is whether or not he practices, and since we don't know, I prefer to err on the side of not mentioning it -- especially in reference to his kids. nmw 09:02, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I know (because I have read it) that he is a quite devout Catholic, but mercifully not a Mel Gibson type. He criticized Pope John Paul II from the left. His kids are definitely being raised Catholic, I read it, and their names are Irish, not English - Michéal (not Michael) and Daniel. He had a Catholic priest preside at their wedding (which was not in a church, however), and I read him talking about the value of saying the rosary.

Liam's son is called Michael (not Michéal) after Natasha's father.

Just thought I'd point out, the name Daniel is Jewish, not Irish. It was first used in the book of Daniel in the Bible. _()|\| 02:02, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

By the way, Deepthought, any "secterianism" (misspelled) in the education system is entirely the fault of the Catholics given their insistence on segregated education (just like in Scotland, and until recently, the USA). 216.194.2.144 01:02, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Byw- Ali-oops may be paying us a visit. He runs the Wikipedia Production Code of censorship (see Pre-Code and its Discussion Page).

Only loyalists could be this obsessive about the man's religion. He's Irish. British people can be British, French can be French but the Irish, it seems, cannot be more than a sect. Only outsiders need to break it down into religious affiliation. Moreover, considering the vast majority of Irish people who happen to be Catholic are not practising Catholics, the only purpose in bringing the man's religion into this is to mark him as one of "the other". El Gringo 01:31, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Nationality stated as Irish....born in Northern Ireland but Northern Irish not acceptable as a nationality. 05/11/2006

Why not? Northern Ireland is a nation so Northern Irish is a nationality.

Let me get this straight: He views HIMSELF IRISH, He is a catholic, he felt like a second class citizen growing up, in northern ireland, yet people like to deem him Northern Irish? Why don't you go over the the Sean Connery article and edit Scottish actor into British actor, see how the contributors on that page would like it. Get my point? Superdude99 01:38, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I get your point but I'm not saying he's British I'm saying he's Nothern Irish which shouldn't have to be associated with any particular religion. The man was born and raised in Northern Ireland which is a separate country from England, Scotland, Wales and the Republic of Ireland no matter how strong the ties between them may be. Therefore it shouldn't be so outrageous to say that he's Northern Irish.

Its not a question of it being 'outrageous' to call him Northern Irish, but what would be the point of changing it from Irish? He is Irish. I don't think there's a dispute that Neeson is from Northern Ireland--the bio states that he was born in Northern Ireland. Is it really necessary to say basically that he's a Northern Irish actor from Northern Ireland? Stating that he's from Northern Ireland and adding that his nationality is Irish, however, rather than just being repititious (as in the NI actor from NI), does add a layer of (accurate) detail about the man. The other way to go would be to simply avoid the nationality issue altogether by only stating that he is "an actor born in Ballymena, Northern Ireland." Period. But since we know that he considers himself Irish, the question remains, what would be the point of *not* calling him Irish? Nuclare 20:48, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it could be tweaked to say he´s an ulsterman, but most people outside uk-Ireland North america probably have no idea where ulster lies. Superdude99

Also keep in mind that nearly NOONE calls themself `Northern Irish` its nearly always Irish or British, check out the northern ireland page. Superdude99

I call myself Northern Irish Superdude!! When the Northern Ireland Parliament was opened in 1921, there is a photograph of the plaque outside reading something along the lines of "The Opening of the Northern Irish Parliament"!! I think it's quite offensive that outsiders (i.e. non-Northern Irish people) are trying to deny the people of Northern Ireland the right to our own identity. You insist on calling us Irish regardless of what we call ourselves (Northern Irish/Ulsterman/woman - whatever!) and I for one reject that imposition. 132.185.144.122 16:07, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay this should be easy to solve. What does Liam call himself? Does he simply say "Irish" or "Northern Irish"? I could take a look at the sources if no one wants to. Even if he is from Northern Ireland, this article is about verifiability, not truth. Wikipedia is simply a reflection of information around us. Wikidan829 16:14, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Check out the quote at the start of the article. He calls himself an Irish citizen in it, not a "Nothern Irish" citizen. I think that's evidence to suggest he just considers himself Irish. -- My NameIs URL 17:46, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

As a person from Northern Ireland, I am ashamed that this type of debate is still going on in 2007. I happen to be different but Liam, and all those like him, are protected by our local constitution (The Good Friday and St. Andrew's Agreement's) to be recognised as Irish, British or both if they choose. Liam is an Irishman. It has his right as a resident of the island of Ireland to be Irish. Respect his and all the other people like him. That is only we are ever going to move forward in this little area. Just because I am one thing, doesn't make him or anyone else. I am both Irish and British. Liam is Irish. Give him his right to be so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.64.190.71 (talk) 23:50, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Northern Ireland doesn't have a constitution! I think it pretty clear that he carries an Irish passport and not a British one, and would identify as Irish not Northern Irish, so I think that should be good enough. I think what is far more questionable is that the article implies he may have one time been considered anti-British, though I can't for the lift of me think why this would be so. I think it should be changed. Also, this section is entitled ethnicity. Surely that should be nationality? Since his ethnicity is clearly white! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.251.224.2 (talk) 00:09, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Why is it not mentioned in the article that he attended the Gaiety School of Acting in Dublin?

Credit to the Unionist poster above who agrees Liam Neeson is simply Irish and entitled to be called simply Irish. He was born in the partitioned state of Northern Ireland, but to the majority of Irishmen that makes you no more or less Irish. Unionists want to be called British and that's fine. But let Irish people in any corner of Ireland be called Irish people as is their desire. People in NI are Irish or British, or Irish and British. "Northern Irish" is a valueless name.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.147.141.202 (talk) 21:03, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Anyone born in Northern Ireland is legally entitled to citizenship of Ireland or the United Kingdom or both, to the best of my knowledge. Therefore, it is indeed possible to be Irish, if born in NI. OperaticNun (talk) 17:17, 2 March 2010 (UTC) Therefore nobody there is BRitish by birth...

Personally I don't care what he thinks he is. Which passport does he have, or does he have both, that should decide it once and for all. However statements such as "What the above poster fails to recognize is that Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain. Therefore nobody there is BRitish by birth... " are just silly. 86.180.37.142 (talk) 20:37, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

That happens to be true, so it invalidates the argument that it was made in response to.--Ktlynch (talk) 21:54, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

OBE?

Why is this minor award in the first sentence? Surely it should be somewhere near the end among the rest of his awards/honours? 78.16.10.27 (talk) 10:42, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Old, but I'll reply. It's because OBE is added to the end of names. Like BA, MSc or whatever. The more you know :) 217.174.211.1 (talk) 06:21, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Football match

Is this really worth reporting in his bio? "On 4th April 2009, he was in attendance watching his team Liverpool play Fulham at Craven Cottage with his two sons, just 2 weeks after the death of his wife." Watching a football match is not a major event, and the mention of it being "just 2 weeks after the death of his wife" may be subtly trying to suggest disapproval of this. I think this should be removed as being a piece of trivia. Fences&Windows 23:03, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Mention of attendance by a game.

I have never attempted to edit something here, but I question the wording and the neccesity of mentioning that he attended a game with his young children 2 weeks after his wife's passing. Are we supposed to care or worse supposed to think he is a bad husband for going to a game so soon after? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.212.21.173 (talk) 02:21, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Star Wars

What is so special about the Star Wars movies that they require a section seperate from his other movie roles? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.197.217.20 (talk) 17:55, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Clearly you were not living in america in 99. Skute (talk) 19:00, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

StarWars deserves its own section because the bloated hype machine created by geekdom wouldn't have it any other way. The fact that only 2½ out of 6 StarWars movies are any good is beside the point. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.226.210.7 (talk) 15:11, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Star Wars was significant because Neeson, after having a terrible time working with Lucas, said he would retire from movie-making altogether. I remember reading this about a decade ago. ---Ransom (--67.91.216.67 (talk) 00:51, 23 November 2010 (UTC))

His age is in question

People magazine, a Time Inc. publication with an army of editors and fact-checkers, says he's 56: "Liam Neeson Dating a 'Wonderful' Mom of Two", by Oliver Jones, Wednesday September 15, 2010 03:20 PM EDT. We need to address this the discrepancy. Where did the other date come from? If it's IMDb, it's not reliable. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:37, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

The Boston Fox-TV affiliate also gives 56: [4]. And People and Star magazines give different sets of ages to his two children. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:45, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

The gossip magazine are wrong, as are the people parroting their age. Or are all these non-gossip magazine sources wrong? 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 12:55, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Dr. Liam Neeson

Honorary Doctorate here Is this worth mentioning? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.41.229.134 (talk) 05:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

It can be mentioned further down the article along with his OBE and other minor honours. It should not appear in the opening sentence. See this wikipedia policy. 86.45.61.211 (talk) 19:38, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Miami Vice guest appearance

Does anyone exept me think that it is worth mentioning that he had a noteable guest appearance in the 'Miami Vice' TV series? In the opening episode of the third season ('When Irish eyes are crying') he played the crook/bad guy Sean M. Caroon (based loosely on Qui-Gon Jinn). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.170.70.194 (talk) 16:56, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Addition of OBE after his name

Wikipedia's policy on this issue is here and is quite clear: 'Post-nominal letters, other than those denoting academic degrees, should be included when they are issued by a country or widely recognizable organization with which the subject has been closely associated. Honors issued by other entities may be mentioned in the article, but generally should be omitted from the lead.' This does not apply to Neeson who is Irish born and bred, lived in Dublin for years where he acted in the world-famous Abbey Theatre and, most importantly, defines himself repeatedly as Irish, not British. His only connection with Britain is the same as John Hume or Gerry Adams, namely continuing British rule over Irish nationalists in Ireland. Under international law, people in Northern Ireland have the right to define themselves as Irish only. This should be respected in this article. As such, this award by Britain should be placed in the article alongside his many other awards from other countries, and indeed from his home country. The OBE should be, to quote wikipedia policy, 'mentioned in the article, but generally should be omitted from the lead'. Captain Fearnought (talk) 14:50, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

He is definitely British as confirmed by the awarding of the OBE. See above. See also [5]. Note the use of "we", "our movie council" and "the government". Eckerslike (talk) 15:05, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect on both counts. 1) The OBE is awarded to very many people who aren't British. Similarly, French, US and other awards are often given to people who aren't French, American etc. A person who accepts those awards does not implicitly accept they are of that nationality. That would be silly. 2) If you have evidence of Liam Neeson describing himself as British, you should produce it. Until you do, in line with Wikipedia policy his repeated self-definition as Irish stands. Captain Fearnought (talk) 16:42, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Agree with (1). The mere acceptance of a British honour does NOT, in itself, mean the recipient is ipso facto British. See List of honorary British knights and dames for many names of non-British people with even higher awards than OBE. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 16:55, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

You are talking about Honorary OBEs. He recieved a full OBE as evidenced by his entry in the London Gazette [6]. Eckerslike (talk) 17:12, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, but I wanted to demolish your theory that OBE automatically = British citizen. It does not. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 17:24, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

No. You assumed that he received an Honourary OBE. I was talking about the full OBE he actually recieved that can only be presented to British citizens. Eckerslike (talk) 17:29, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

If you look at the London Gazette list, you'll find there's no such thing as an honorary OBE/Officer of the British Empire, which is what Neeson received. There is, however, an honorary KBE which is awarded to non-British recipients. You appear to be confusing both. Captain Fearnought (talk) 19:15, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

That is because honourary awards don't get gazetted. You won't find any reference to honourary knighthood either (unless it gets substantiated). Try finding Robert Geldof, Gerard Houllier or William Gates. Eckerslike (talk) 20:44, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Note, Captain Fearnought is a confirmed sock-master of Dunlavin Green. -- GoodDay (talk) 19:22, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

I have never heard Liam Neeson being referred to as British-always Irish.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 19:26, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Sock or not, the points raised by Captain are correct and I concur with what they said. Mo ainm~Talk 19:34, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

The content is irrelevant to me. GoodDay (talk) 19:37, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

If Liam Neeson objected to being given an OBE he was of course quite free to reject it. He did not, nor has subsequently done so. There is no good reason not to list it after his name. E. Fokker (talk) 20:37, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Infobox - proposal to change Nationality to Citizenship parameter?

Much has already been chewed over here, and here, but perhaps time the issue was addressed here? RashersTierney (talk) 01:32, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

I'd have no probs with changing it. GoodDay (talk) 13:24, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Me neither. Mooretwin (talk) 20:36, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Looks like consensus. Anyone care to comment before implementing? RashersTierney (talk) 19:23, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Fine. Done. RashersTierney (talk) 23:01, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Erm, what? How are people supposed to discuss when it is unclear exactly what is being proposed? I object to the addition of the bare "American" citizenship in the infobox, as other than American it is unclear exactly which citizenships he does or does not hold. Since he may have had to give up other citizenships to obtain American citizenships, there is no evidence he holds any citizenship other than American. Equally there is no evidence there is any evidence he has given up any other citizenships. However this is where WP:BURDEN comes into play. Should I wish to add a sentence saying "Neeson gave up his British citizenship when applying for American citizenship" then I would need a source saying precisely that. Equally, those wishing to add that he currently holds British citizenship need to provide a source proving that is the case as of 2011. Since we don't actually know, it's best if we stick to just dealing with it in the article text which isn't potentially misleading. Only listing one citizenship in the infobox when he may hold more than one is potentially misleading, and in fact potentially wrong. However "In August 2009, Neeson stated on ABC's Good Morning America that he had been naturalized as a United States citizen" is not misleading in the slightest, as it presents the same fact in a way which doesn't suggest he is only now a United States citizen. 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 10:15, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

How is it misleading to state his newly acquired citizenship in the infobox, even though it is clearly ref'd in the main text? He may or may not currently hold other 'citizenships', but these would need to be referenced in the usual manner. His acquisition of US citizenship is highly notable as is clear from multiple news reports, and there is no valid reason for its removal against consensus. RashersTierney (talk) 12:35, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Birthplace

We've got Scotland, UK at Sean Connery, why not Northern Ireland, UK, here? GoodDay (talk) 21:03, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Probably because there is a critical mass of editors who don't want to recognise that Northern Ireland is in the UK. Mooretwin (talk) 21:52, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

What's the standard usage for these British bio infoboxes? we appear to have inconsistancies. GoodDay (talk) 21:55, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

I think we have a critical mass of editors who want to obliterate from wiki any mention of the fact that there are people from Northern Ireland who consider themselves Irish. --Eamonnca1 ^TALK 23:11, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately this page is infested with Irish nationalists that do not want to acknowledge that Mr. Neeson was born in the UK and is an American national. 76.125.58.198 (talk) 14:45, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Though I agree with your edit version (i.e. adding United Kingdom), it would be better to avoid edit-warring. GoodDay (talk) 19:18, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Three things 76.125.58.198 please try to limit you comments to the edits not the editor, your reference to the page being infested is bad faith. Secondly I don't think anyone here is disputed that fact that Northern Ireland is part of the UK it just that to add it to the address is unnecessary (as can be demonstrated at many other NI related articles) and is also overlinking. Thirdly you could be considered to be edit warring at this article as other editor have also reverted your change. I have reverted to the stable version before GoodDay made the addition of the UK. I suggest that you get consensus here first before making any further changes. Bjmullan (talk) 16:35, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

I've re-added United Kingdom & solved the overlinking problem by merely deleting the county. We've got the city, non-sovereign state & sovereign state, which is all that's required. GoodDay (talk) 12:12, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

GD you may think this is a solution, I don't. Get consensus here before making any further additions. Your edit had been reverted. Bjmullan (talk) 22:46, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

He was born in the United Kingdom, I'm quite certain. There's no need for the addition of the county, city, constituent country, country or city, country, sovereign state (however you prefer to describe'em) is fine. GoodDay (talk) 18:23, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm still waiting for an explanation, Bjmullan. What's your opposition to showing United Kingdom? GoodDay (talk) 21:28, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

I think he said it was unnecessary and overlinking. --Eamonnca1 ^TALK 21:56, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

I removed the over-linking problem, by deleting the 'county'. GoodDay (talk) 22:24, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Unnecessary, overlinking and what makes this article different from the hundreds if not thousands of Northern Ireland related articles which does without having UK at the end? Bjmullan (talk) 07:50, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

The overlinking problem has been solved. You still haven't explained your opposition to using United Kingdom, so I'll have to assume it's a WP:IDONTLIKEIT situation & leave it at that. GoodDay (talk) 10:05, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

GoodDay I couldn't give a flying fuck what you assume. Just keep stirring the pot. Bjmullan (talk) 22:36, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Stop being a dick, for once. GoodDay (talk) 22:51, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Unless I'm missing something, there's still no good reason been given for not listing UK in the infobox, only uneccessary cursing. What's the deal-io? JonChapple ^Talk 09:22, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't see the issue with his birthplace being listed as Northern Ireland, UK. 76.125.58.198 (talk) 00:14, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

The overlink concerns were answered by me. What's the latest reason behind the continued oppostion to adding United Kingdom? Pull up a chair & wait, like me, though it may take awhile. GoodDay (talk) 00:16, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

I think we should go with this edit. [7] --Eamonnca1 ^TALK 01:26, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Might be well to remember that pointy edits aren't very convincing and can lead to a block. RashersTierney (talk) 02:20, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

I fail to see why having United Kingdom is such a problem, though. GoodDay (talk) 09:39, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Eamonnca1 that's a brilliant idea. Wait, also that he evolved over millions of years into the primate he is today, to give a clear indication of his true nationality represented by Ethnicity, seeing as he's not an Irish or British Citizen, what's the harm, and yes I'm religious but also an evolutionist, maybe he'd agree if he was the same? (Bjmullan you clearly have a problem with UK being added, and GD you clearly think it's allot more important than it is, so ergo, boys boys) this discussion is probably the dumbest thing I have ever read on Wikipedia. --Τασουλα (Almira) (talk) 23:54, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

He was born British & that can't be retroactively changed. GoodDay (talk) 14:40, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Honours/Honors

The "Honours" section was created in this revision on December 8th, 2010. Today a new user 68.106.220.11 (talk · contribs) is insisting that the spelling be changed to "Honors". This change has been reverted by Bongwarrior, Bjmullan, Pointillist (me) and most recently Hot Stop. Do we have a consensus to stick with the "Honours" spelling? - Pointillist (talk) 23:16, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't think there is any other consensus needed, I've been through this kind of bickering before and won on another major entry, my reasoning, and citation of the MOS: Retain standards are quite clear and therefore require that the entry maintain a level of consistency in the spelling. Mr. Neeson has no British origin and therefore the spelling of a minor part of the entry should not be changed to a British English standard. 68.106.220.11 (talk · contribs)

Yet more ridicules edit warring. Maybe we should get ArbCom enforced here? British English is used because he was born in Britain, spent his early life there and such, he would of been taught with British English while at school perhaps?. This edit summary made me giggle, honestly - "Spelling correction to "Honours". This is the English version of Wikipedia, not British English" Durr-hurr I have news, it's also not the American English Wikipedia too! Why don't you go around changing every spelling to American English (Not "English" as you call it) then based on that logic? =.= --Τασουλα (Almira) (talk) 00:04, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Yea, considering he was born in NI it seems obvious to use British English. Hot Stop talk-contribs 00:21, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

1972? - 75

You have not mentioned that between 1972 (not sure if that was when he started) and 1975 Liam attended Saint Mary's College in Fenham near Newcastle-upon-Tyne where he studied to be a teacher. I lived next door to him in the houses of residence in "Hilds" corridor" and we spent many an evening drinking Guinness and chatting in his room. The last time I saw him was on an Underground platform in London in June 1975. We had been performing a play by Richard Cooper called "Flowers to the Rebels" in a small theatre in Leicester Square. He had the lead part as Fabio Torres and I was the leader of the rebels. I believe that he was leaving to start work at the Lyric theatre in Dublin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.15.182 (talk) 20:56, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Citizenship issue.

It just says "American" in the info-box which is fine and correct but, does he have any other citizenship? Did he/or does he have Irish Or British citizenship? If so, it should be mentioned alongside American, and yes, British too if he is. I will not tolerate nasty little nationalist editing. --Nutthida (talk) 20:11, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Citizenship field is usually current citizenship. As a living person, Neeson made a choice to become an American citizen. Technically, this requires renouncing previous alligiances. We put "Irish" in the lead sentence, as specifiled by WP:MOSBIO, because that was his nationality at the time he achieved notability. And it's listed in the infobox as his nationality. But the citizenship field is quite correctly "American", and no additional information is needed, since as a living person, we respect and report his latest citizenship choice. If he abandons the US and becomes a citizen of yet another country, we will then change it, not add to it. Yworo (talk) 20:29, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Becoming an American citizen doesn't require renowncing any previous citizenship (see Naturalized_citizen_of_the_United_States#Dual_citizenship). It has to be assumed that he remains a British citizen unless there is a reliable source states otherwise. Eckerslike (talk) 21:20, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome to provide a source, but typically we don't assume such things. We require a source. Yworo (talk) 02:50, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

It's not an assumption though. Hot Stop talk-contribs 05:25, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

How do you provide a source for something he hasn't done? Articles with the headline "Liam Neeson still British citizen" wouldn't garner much intrest. Eckerslike (talk) 13:40, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

"It's not an assumption though" after "It has to be assumed"? Don't think so! The burden of evidence, particularly in relation to living people, is quite clear. It is up to editors who think Liam Neeson still holds British citizenship to show that is in fact the case, the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true. 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 14:30, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. If "it's an obvious assumption", we don't need to state a thing. The reader already knows it based on the birthplace. But without a source, we simply can't state it. For all we know, Neeson stomped into the British consulate angry over some personal matter, turned in his passport and renounced his citizenship. If neither he nor the consulate saw fit to report this to the news, we'd never know. We can't state as fact that which is not reported in sources. Unless a source specifically reports that he kept his British citizenship or is a dual citizen or some such unambiguous language, we remain silent about it. Yworo (talk) 15:22, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

By your logic how can the article claim anything. He could have stomped into the American consulate an renowned his American citizenship. He could have changed his name and not told anybody. Have you any evidence that he is still a film star and not quit the industry in the last 24 hours? You're making the far larger assumption of fabricating events that could have happened but you have no evidence for. Eckerslike (talk) 15:55, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

WE have sources that say he is an American citizen, we have sources that say what his name is and we have sources that say he is an actor, if you want to say otherwise to any of these claims then you need a source for it. We don't work on assumptions. Mo ainm~Talk 16:09, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Yup he could of, and we can't report any of those theoretically possible things either. You've just established why we can't claim anything about his British citizenship status. We don't know, and we don't have a source for it. It would be just as made-up as any of the ridiculous examples you just proposed. What you are proposing is doing original research or synthesis based solely on potentially inaccurate knowledge of various countries citizenship rules applied to a living person without specific sources. We can't even use original research in an article about a scientific subject or a deceased person, WP:BLP is quite clear that we can't do it for a living person. If you can provide a source that specifically states the fact without inference or synthesis needed, we can state it. If you don't have a source, we can't. It's that simple. Yworo (talk) 16:13, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Since we know he got American citizenship, and since we know that you don't need to renounce past citizenship to gain US citizenship, wouldn't the extraordinary claim be that he renounced his British citizenship? Hot Stop talk-contribs 00:11, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Except we're not wanting to add any content that says he's renounced British citizenship, the onus per WP:BURDEN is on those wishing to claim he still has British citizenship to prove that is indeed the case. 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 11:17, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

And this, my friends, is why I hate the way wikipedia is run at times. A critical mass forms and blocks everything else. How tiresome.Gaius Octavius Princeps (talk) 04:16, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

I am just amazed that this is an issue. Neeson was born with UK citizenship. It needs to be proved that this has been renounced, not that it is still the case. A little bit of common sense is required. Sue De Nimes (talk) 23:51, 5 February 2012 (UTC) And a source - Liam Neeson was named in last years "Rich List" published by the Sunday Times. You need to be an Irish resident or passport holder to be listed in this. Unfortunately the links to this are behind a payway but here is a link to a site referencing it. http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irelands-richest-people-named---Liam-Neeson-U2-on-list-121488364.html Sue De Nimes (talk) 23:57, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

I've added British citizenship with reference. I'll leave the Irish citizenship as is for the moment but it does seem dubious. Despite what the Irish central says it seems to include anyone with links to the whole of Ireland. For example, Katie Melua is also in the list despite being a naturalised British citizen who spent some of her childhood in Northern Ireland. Clarification is needed. [8] Eckerslike (talk) 02:11, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

I've removed it, since the reference doesn't even say he holds British citizenship. Given Bob Geldof is on the list and is not British, the list itself proves nothing.81.151.154.129 (talk) 02:44, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

The criteria for the list is citizenship or residency. Bob Geldof is a British resident but this does not apply to Liam Neeson who now resides in the US. Also why did you remove the reference to British but not the Irish citizenship. If you feel the Times rich list is not a reliable reference then it applies to both equally. Eckerslike (talk) 05:02, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

His inclusion on the list does not prove citizenship. 86.183.57.235 (talk) 11:46, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

And ditto his inclusion in the Irish list. Mooretwin (talk) 14:02, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

As Neeson was born in the UK, the presumption must be that he is a UK citizen. The burden of proof lies with those who claim he has renounced UK citizenship. Mooretwin (talk) 14:13, 6 February 2012 (UTC)Well he actually has UK and Irish citizenship. I don't have a problem with listing both of those alongside his US citizenship. Personally I don't think there is a need to have any of them but if one if going to be listed than surely all three. Sue De Nimes (talk) 15:34, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Do we know that he has citizenship of the Republic? Mooretwin (talk) 16:21, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

You are wrong, see the discussions on this talk page. The burden of evidence is on those wishing to add that he holds British citizenship as of 2012 to prove that is the case. 86.183.57.235 (talk) 15:48, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Where in these discussions has it been concluded that his UK citizenship needs to be "proved"? Mooretwin (talk) 16:21, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

This sort of carry on exemplifies what is wrong with Wikipedia. Liam Neeson was born in Northern Ireland and as such that gives him both UK and Irish citizenship. It is not wiki policy to prove that ceases to be the case rather the burden of proof lies with those who wish to prove a change. 87.194.162.141 (talk) 23:12, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

The burden or proof is with those who claim he no longer holds UK or Irish citizenship. Sue De Nimes (talk) 23:14, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Oh - if anyone believes he no longer holds his citizenship status of birth then they need to quote a source Sue De Nimes (talk) 23:18, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

No. Having been born in NI, Neeson is a UK citizen, and he is entitled also to be an ROI citizen. Consequently we need evidence of his having taken up the latter entitlement (e.g. possession of an ROI passport): we cannot reasonably assume that he has. Mooretwin (talk) 23:32, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

No, per WP:V the burden of evidence is on those adding material. If you want to add claims about current citizenship, the burden of evidence is on you to provide sources. We do not include unsourced material because editors think it is true Mo ainm~Talk 23:36, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Certain editors are showing a lack of common sense on this topic. Liam Neeson was born in Northern Ireland which makes him both a UK and an Irish citizen. He doesn't need to claim either passport to "validate" his citizenship. To be honest having a "citizenship" item in the infobox seems silly. Surely the common sense thing to do is remove it? I personally hold dual citizenship of both countries while only physically possessing a UK passport. This is his status from birth. Sue De Nimes (talk) 23:40, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

No. He's only a citizen of ROI if he takes up his entitlement. We can't assume that he has done that without evidence. Having a passport was only an example of something that would demonstrate that he had done so. He is, however, automatically a UK citizen - not an entitlement. Mooretwin (talk) 01:10, 7 February 2012 (UTC) OK - I have just spoken with Liam Neeson. He has this to say "I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you change my Wiki page now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you." Unfortunately I believe it counts as original research Sue De Nimes (talk) 10:27, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

As I said above, Neeson called himself an "Irish citizen." In the same interview, he also said his sons were Irish citizens. (Incidentally, he didn't say anything about being a U.K. citizen in the interview.) The interview (from "George" magazine probably in the 1990s) appears to have fallen offline, but there's nothing in wiki policy that says a source has to be online. Obviously, he's become a U.S. citizen since then, but please stop implying we have no source for him being an Irish citizen because it does exist. Personally, I think the citizenship box is a waste of space. Nuclare (talk) 13:17, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of that source. In that case, the "citizenship" box should state US, UK and ROI citizen. Mooretwin (talk) 13:48, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

It wouldn't surprise me that he has Irish citizenship. He would have to be an idiot (or a unionist) not to claim it (I would have but I was born two generations too late). For the record the interview was in the June 1999 issue if anyone can get hold of back issues and confirm that he stated that he is an Irish citizen. However even if it does it will come up against the same problem as the evidence of his British citizenship as it doesn't confirm that he is still holds citizenship as the guardians of this article are demanding. Eckerslike (talk) 18:42, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

I think people are looking at this incorrectly. By adding the infobox listing his citizenship as only US then that incorrectly shows him not to have his original citizenship. This was added without a source. To be honest though, I am going to bow out on this. I know Liam Neeson holds Irish citizenship and UK citizenship. Whether some people on wikipedia accept that won't have any impact on anything of consequence Sue De Nimes (talk) 18:33, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

The US naturalisation issue was not added without a source. It is ref'd at 'Personal life', and has not been disputed. RashersTierney (talk) 18:51, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Which is just another reason why the citizenship box should go. The fact that he went through the process of becoming a naturalized citizen of the place he has lived for many years is arguably quite noteworthy and, as such, can be mentioned (even right at the top, if desired) in the body of the article. It doesn't necessitate laundry lists of *assumed* (rather than sourced) citizenships--some of which *could* be mere technicalities to an individual rather than particularly noteworthy. Nuclare (talk) 03:50, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

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