Talk:Lewis MacKenzie

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The statements regarding alleged rapes by General MacKenzie are extremely biased. These allegations have not been proven, and could represent a retribution for what is seen as his 'pro-Serbian' stance by the government in Sarjevo

This page needs some work. It's absurd to talk about the possibility of the PCs winning in 1997 without some qualification: nobody expected them to.

There should also be some mention of the criticism levelled at him for his performance in Bosnia.

The only criticism "levelled at him for his performance in Bosnia" stems from Bosniak (Bosnian Muslim) sources, and they are biased for political reasons and agendas. Stop The Lies 22:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)Stop_The_Lies

Finally, I would expect to see some mention of the letters between him and Dallaire (his was called something like 'O Romeo, wherefore art thou partisan') after Dallaire became a senator earlier this year.

I'll see what I can do. --Saforrest 14:36, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

"Tory Leader Jean Charest" makes no sense. Jean Charest was a candidate for the PC party leadership in 92 or 93, but left federal politics to join the Quebec provincial Liberal party. The Tory leader in 97 was Joe Clark. However, we need a source for the claim that he was tapped as a possible deputy PM. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Warspite (talk • contribs) .

Agreed about the need for a source. However, though Charest was indeed a candidate in 1993 and lost to Campbell, after the 93 election and Campbell's resignation he did become the leader. Joe Clark didn't take over as PC leader until 1998. --Saforrest 04:38, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

The rape allegation are allegations and nothing else, unproved and unsubstantial. The whole line is actually slanderous not only to MacKenzie but to Canada as well. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mr.Flint (talk • contribs).

Agreed. Stop The Lies 21:58, 5 December 2006 (UTC)Stop_The_Lies

Methinks you mean libellous. And I don't think you can libel a country. --Saforrest 04:57, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

External Link

I removed the external link because it had absolutely no significance. It was a link to a site criticizing Gen Mackenzie for not making sure he disciplined his troops enough... There is no mention of this in the main article (as there shouldn't be), therefore to include the link is absurd. Stop The Lies 21:58, 5 December 2006 (UTC)Stop_The_Lies

Srebrenica massacre

If anyone here remembers anything about those ancient bogus rape allegations, can you take a look at Talk:Srebrenica massacre#Lewis MacKenzie? (If someone has once more changed the section title, it's near the bottom of the page) -- Jim Douglas ^(talk) _(contribs) 16:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Money from Serbian lobby group

I am really interested how is possible to defeat statement from this link [1] --Rjecina (talk) 23:28, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Source number 4 is from a second-rate BLOG! What kind of source is that, if you're accusing someone of taking money from lobby groups! What biased character assassination.... --24.150.77.3 (talk) 04:16, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Now there is 2 new sources. It is not possible to defeat all sources which speak about that. All in all I am surprised that he has spoken about that--Rjecina (talk) 07:07, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Slobodanka Borojevic is a Biased Serb Commentator

She cannot be used as a valid claim that Borislav Herak's confession was "faked." Only courts can decide whether confessions were faked. Please keep objective point of view without one-sided web references from self-serving commentators. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.82.176.183 (talk) 01:45, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Controversy section

Some of the assertions made about him in the controversy section come from some really sketchy sources, and are absurd to say the least. The claim that he raped a Bosnian woman is particularly ridiculous. This is a Canadian general we're talking about and if there was even a remote possibility this was true it would have been all over the news in the entire western world. Wikipedia cannot include every accusation ever made against someone. The section needs to be cleaned up. Edrigu (talk) 02:19, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Story about recieved payments is OK and in my thinking can't be disputed. Because of never ending POV pushing of multiple users this 4 lines of text are having 5 sources. Other 30 lines of text are having 3 sources. This is telling everything.--Rjecina (talk) 03:20, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

This whole section is grammatically horrid and the content is clearly politically biased. The goal is to discredit the General as a reliable source in the Balkan conflicts simply because he takes a more sympathetic stance towards the Serbs. --24.226.16.137 (talk) 00:46, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, but it seems to have been cleaned up recently. I think it is ok now. Edrigu (talk) 03:34, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

sex slave

i remember MacKenzie being recalled from his post in Bosnia after he was accused of keeping Bosnian Muslim women as prisoners for the purpose of forcing them to have sex —Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.135.162 (talk) 15:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Lewis MacKenzie "stars" in Boris Malagurski film

Having had my additions to his edit promoting Lewis MacKenzie's "starring" role in Boris Malagurski's films removed by User:UrbanVillager, I'm setting out the following so as to make my reasons for persisting clear before I reinsert relevant information about Malagurski's connections.

UrbanVillager considers it the equivalent of a point of view to point out that the films in which he describes Lewis MacKenzie as starring are produced by a Serbian-Canadian student film-maker and Serbian nationalist activist, while the rest of MacKenzie's "co-stars" are individuals well-known for promoting the Serbian nationalist view of the Western Balkan conflicts of the 1990s.

MacKenzie's association with Serbnet (Serbian American National Information Network), unresolved allegations relating to his association with Serb counterparts during his term of duty in Bosnia and his rejection of the findings of international courts concerning the genocidal killings at Srebrenica all make reference to the context of his ongoing association with Serbian nationalist propaganda vehicles relevant rather than simply "point of view".

When Lewis MacKenzie agrees to join other well-known Serb apologists in making a high profile contribution to a novice film-maker's work, it is legitimate to comment on evidence of sympathies that undermine MacKenzie's stance as an objective commentator on Balkan affairs.

It's not unreasonable to describe Boris Malagurski's work as Serbian nationalist propaganda. Malagurski is President, Founder and Treasurer of the Serbian Youth League, a member of the Serbian Unity Congress and a former executive of the University of British Columbia Serbian Student. In 2008 he organised protests in Vancouver against Kosovo's declaration of independence.

While Malagurski's films are promoted as offering "a Canadian perspective" on ethnic divisions within Yugoslavia, what they in fact offer is a Serbian nationalist perspective that seeks to emphasise Serb victimhood without acknowledging Serbia's role in the demise of the former Yugoslavia and the perpetration of war crimes and crimes against humanity. According to Nebojsa Malic, Amnesty International rejected the offer of Kosovo: Can You Imagine? for inclusion in their Human Rights Film Festival on the grounds that Malagurski's film was biased and seemed clearly anti-Albanian.

UrbanVillager him(her?)self is in fact the creator of the Wikipedia article about the - still unreleased - Malagurski film [[The Weight of Chains] and a contributor to Wikipedia articles about a number of the participants in that film and Kosovo: Can You Imagine? with edits solely about their appearance in Malagurski's oeuvre (the participants include the notorious Srdja Trifković, spokesperson for the Bosnian Serb regime, who was attending meetings with Radovan Karadzic in Pale while the Srebrenica executions were in the process of being carried out).

When challenged with the claim that material at the The Weight of Chains article of material appeared to have been plagiarised from the film's promotional website UrbanVillager has suggested that the apparent plagiarism is not plagiarism because the material also appears in the film's press-kit.

Utrban Villager also edits other Wikipedia articles so as to promote a Serbian revanchist denial of Kosovan independence - for example, reintegrating Đakovica/Gjakova Airport back into Serbia by replacing the map of Kosovo at the article with a map of Serbia. UrbanVillager should examine whether his own misleading contributions embody the POV he points to in others. Opbeith (talk) 18:15, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Malagurski

Urban Villager, it's interesting to watch you struggle to promote Lewis MacKenzie's association with Boris Malagurski's propagandising at the same time as you try to avoid Malagurski being identified as a Serbian nationalist activist that you'd rather write off Malagurski's own Serbian Youth League website - headed by Malgurski's proclamation of himself as President, Founder and Treasurer of the Serbian Youth League[2], full of photographs of apparently "non-nationalist activities" [3] - as an unreliable source than admit to MacKenzie's association with the self-publicist and the rest of the Serbian propaganda machine. Your efforts to promote Malagurski's distorted views are not terribly helpful to your man, nor to MacKenzie. You simply stir up the doubts once again - what's it all about with Lewis MacKenzie and the Serb nationalists? Let's not have any more of this holier-than-thou invocation of Wikipedia principles while you do your best to exploit Wikipedia for your own purposes. Opbeith (talk) 00:55, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Look, Opbeith, it's not about opinions here, it's about facts. Even if you find a source like the Washington Post calling Malagurski a nationalist, then you'd still have to say "The Washington Post described Malagurski as..." and not just "Malagurski is a nationalist". It's common sense. Not only that, those are Wikipedia rules. It's not up to you to decide whether someone's activities are nationalist or not. And just because Malagurski is the President of a youth organization - that doesn't make him a Serbian nationalist. Ethnic community groups, even those that organize protests, are not automatically nationalist. In any case, read Wikipedia:No original research. Thanks, --UrbanVillager (talk) 03:22, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Urban Villager, perhaps you could check out Wikipedia:Not Born Yesterday. Opbeith (talk) 23:43, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

There's no such page. Please do not troll Wikipedia. Thanks, --UrbanVillager (talk) 01:16, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Is there any evidence that Boris Malagurski is a nationalist or that he describes himself as a nationalist? Nationalism is a political ideology and in order to identify someone as a nationalist you have to back your claims up with some sort of evidence. Labeling people as "nationalist" without evidence is no different than labeling them "communist" just because you think they are. --A.Molnar (talk) 00:06, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

A.Molnar, I suggest you look up the dictionary definition of "nationalist" and then read how the President, Founder, Treasurer and Website creator of the Serbian Youth League, member of the Serbian Unity Congress, maker of films portraying a monochrome Serb perspective expresses himself with regard to Serbia and no other country. I suggest that Urban Villager might describe hthat as "original research", I suspect most Wikipedia users would regard it as use of rudimentary human intelligence. Opbeith (talk) 00:56, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Don't make personal attacks - comment the topic, not the user. Just because an organization has the word "Serbian" in it, it doesn't make it nationalist. If you have personal issues with the word "Serbian" or Serbians or Serbs or Serbia, please deal with them outside of Wikipedia. Furthermore, the rules are very clear and it would be kind of you to start participating in a more constructive manner - we have gone over why you can't add your opinions to an article, and unless you have reliable references for your claims, there's no point continuing a discussion on this matter. --UrbanVillager (talk) 07:53, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

UrbanVillager, it's interesting to hear you telling me off once again, after all these years, in your best "Wikipedia head prefect" tone of voice. It brought the memories crowding back of the days in 2006 when you and Boris Malagurski and others were part of the clique of Serb activists on Wikipedia most of whom, like Boris, eventually ended up getting yourselves blocked for disruptive editing of articles relating to Kosovo/a, Srebrenica, Markale and so on. That was the time Boris Malagurski / Bormalagurski / Serb / Serbiana was inveigling to get Nikola Smolenski elected as a pro-Serbian administrator. If you can't find Wikipedia: Not Born Yesterday, try looking for Wikipedia: I Think We've Been Here Before. Perhaps you'd explain why you're so committed to promoting Boris's films on Wikipedia? Opbeith (talk) 11:13, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

All this has nothing to do with MacKenzie or Wikipedia. Stop trolling, or I will report you. If you have questions for me related to Wikipedia articles, write them on my talk page. Thanks, --UrbanVillager (talk) 20:35, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

The present dispute

An editor has made repeated attempts to post this text to the MacKenzie article. I am against this, for three reasons:

• The fact that MacKenzie's statements on the former Yugoslavia were picked up by a right-wing lunatic is not, in and of itself, notable.
• Both Brevik's writings and the subsequent newspaper coverage included only peripheral references to MacKenzie.
• MacKenzie's remarks were specific to the political situations in Bosnia + Albania and were not directed against Muslims generally. Associating him (even indirectly) with Brevik's anti-Muslim lunacy seems like guilt-by-association.

What do others think? CJCurrie (talk) 00:43, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

I haven't been involved with the article but it is on my watchlist and I've noticed the slow edit war developing. I agree with CJCurrie's call. Before going off on a killing spree Breivik had released a pretty big Manifest which mentioned dozens, if not hundreds, of people, political parties and organizations he saw as sympathetic to his islamophobic cause. It would be inappropriate to include Breivik's marginal references into all of the articles of people he mentioned. Timbouctou (talk) 05:38, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070212225406/http://www.dnd.ca:80/somalia/vol4/v4c31e.htm to http://www.dnd.ca/somalia/vol4/v4c31e.htm

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Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Lewis MacKenzie/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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I think that after the war, when most of the tortured people (village people), are back to their ordinary lives, it is not right to believe what they have been through and what they have seen while serving Serb fascists in the concentration camps. Most of these people can barely read let alone thinking up a scheme against general Lewis MacKenzie... or any other matter. I find it extremely important to dismiss your "biased, poorly secured, not enough proof" suggestion because the regular Bosnian folk at that time was not only compromised by their own politicians..., let alone some general from Canada who just would never be questioned... why would he? The whole world thinks these troops helped Bosnia,.. well they're running somebody's agenda as well, because when Banjaluka was about to be set free (special unit was 15 km away) the general of that special unit was contacted and instructed to stop his unit or they will be shot at by the UN planes in matter of minutes. I think that in this lifetime it is of urgent matter for all of us to consider the impossible, whatever area it may regard to, and yes even the gray areas. We live in a world of politics, innocent victims, a serious game we most of us normal people, will never understand nor be a part of. A lot of harm was done to the Bosnian people, and I mean when I say this. Don't ignore the visuals available now to present the massacres... and nobody can then tell me that something of that era is "biased" or "lacking evidence"... The story of truth will live as long as I live at least, and I will make sure that everybody knows about any human's capacity especially if it has to do with money.

Last edited at 01:40, 11 November 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 21:57, 29 April 2016 (UTC)