This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Leo IV the Khazar article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Greece on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history
This article is within the scope of the Roman and Byzantine Emperors WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of the Roman and Byzantine emperors. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Roman and Byzantine emperorsWikipedia:WikiProject Roman and Byzantine emperorsTemplate:WikiProject Roman and Byzantine emperorsRoman and Byzantine emperors
Bury's book, almost 100 years old, gives no source for its figures whatsoever, nor does it even try to justify them, and I maintain that they're absolutely implausible; modern estimates, such as those by Warren Treadgold, put the size of the entire Byzantine Army in the 770's at 60,000, a figure barely over half the size of what's reported here for a single field force! It is also, it should be noted, the figure used in the main "Byzantine Military" article. Even the paper strength of the Byzantine Army in the early 9th century, as reported by Ibn Khordadbeh (who claims to have gotten his hands on a copy of the military rolls), was only 70,000, 30,000 less than what Bury casually mentions were involved in a single expedition. In any case, the estimate, as shown above, is massively contradicted by more informed examples both ancient and modern, so it really has no place in the article.
Additionally, that all of the Themes and Tagmata, even if they did approach 100,000 combined (very unlikely), would ever be gathered in one place is, quite frankly, a ridiculous idea. Bulgaria and Slavic tribes needed to be constantly guarded against in the north, Lombards and Tunisians needed to be constantly guarded against in the west, and Arab raiders needed to be constantly guarded against at sea. Ripping many or most of the guards from their farms and postings in these regions to go on a raid 1000 miles away would have lead to economic and military disaster, and that's not even considering the logistical impossibility of supplying an army that size.
@Iazyges: "Byzantium and Its Army, 284-1081", page 67; the number is a bit higher than I remembered, giving an extremely optimistic 80,000 for total soldiers and marines, but it's still far, far too low for anything approaching 100,000 men to have gone on an adventure in Cilicia, even if there were no frontiers to be guarded in the west or south. Jeandukeofalecon (talk) 02:23, 30 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Iazyges, I think this article would benefit immensely from including information on Leo IV's relationship with iconoclasm. From what I've read, it was one of the defining marks of his reign. Despite being a GA, this article sadly lacks coverage on this topic. Unlimitedlead (talk) 19:05, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]