Talk:Lemon meringue pie

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Frehse Citation

Found verification on CNN. http://eatocracy.cnn.com/2011/08/15/breakfast-buffet-national-lemon-meringue-pie-day/

- clearly sourced from wikipedia and its numerous clones. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.190.98.38 (talk) 09:33, 25 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

-- Welcome to Wikipedia. Please familiarize yourself with wikipedia's policies regarding Verifiability. --TheyCallMeDrWorm (talk) 06:28, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Farrer citation as source for Frehse as originator of Lemon Meringue Pie

Farrer K. cites Alexander Fresche as the inventer of Lemon Meringue pie. That is why the reference was originally attacked to the article.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.15.12.211 (talk • contribs) 17:06, 1 February 2007.

The mention of Alexander Frehse with a citation to Farrer's To Feed a Nation: A History of Australian Food Science and Technology appears to be a form of subtle vandalism by 71.194.243.7 (Talk). — VulcanOfWalden 11:19, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The pie is very obviously the one called tarte au citron meringuée in France. When and where the meringue bit was added I don't know (possibly French too), but the basic pie is certainly of Southern French origin. To claim it's Aussie is a bit like claiming Angels on Horseback is French because something similar exists in the Gironde. Dysmorodrepanis 12:08, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is definitely not Australian, but it is theoretically possible for a nice desert to come from a place other than France--67.175.86.191 (talk) 03:31, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid the pie predates Australia. The Australian reference is probably from confusion with the Pavlova, a signature desert in that part of the world.24.15.19.79 (talk) 11:19, 14 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe Australia was supposed to be Austria? Switzerland used to be apart of the Austrian Empire. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CD46:1650:86F:E8D3:5E87:9B1A (talk) 19:22, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The first time that Alexander Frehse was added to the article was with an edit by IP address 71.194.243.7 that added the statement "The recipe was created by Alexander Frehse in the mid-nineteenth century" with a reference to Keith Farrer's To Feed a Nation: A History of Australian Food Science and Technology (ISBN 978-0643091542) as support.[1] The same IP later added to the Creamsicle article (before it became a redirect) the statement "The creamsicle was first invented by a Swedish imigrant named Alexander Frehse in 1923" with Farrer's book used again as a reference.[2] As the index of the book on Amazon.com listed neither lemon nor meringue nor pie nor Alexander nor Frehse, I removed mention of Alexander Frehse from the article as well as Farrer's book as a reference.[3]
Mention of Alexander Frehse was reintroduced to the article with an edit[4] by IP address 67.175.86.191, with support for the statement being given to John F. Mariani's Encyclopedia of American Food and Drink (ISBN 978-0867307849). The index of Mariani's book on Amazon.com does show an entry for lemon meringue pie on pages 182-183, but the index lists neither Alexander or Frehse. Given the history of that name, I'm calling shenanigans and deleting that block of text. While the edit did introduce a few accurate statements, mostly copying text from foodtimeline.org's entry for lemon meringue pie[5], I think it best to to re-stubbify the article. — VulcanOfWalden (talk) 15:03, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lemon meringue pie in Medieval times

"The dessert has been enjoyed since Medieval times, but the recipe for meringue was not perfected until the 17th century." Food history is not often very good history. This recipe depends upon the common availability of lemons, the idea of pies as desserts and meringue as a topping. We can rule out "Medieval times" for a start. I'd be pleasantly surprised to see a pre-Napoleonic era recipe or description. Anyone?--Wetman (talk) 01:09, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the meringue article, it gives the 1600's as the period that meringue 'was invented' (my term), so I doubt the pie was around long before that. Loggie (talk) 16:16, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Problem with reference formatting

I can't seem to get the ref to work. perhapse someone with a faster connection and more experience can fix it instead of reverting to a stub article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.175.86.191 (talk) 03:41, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Earliest lemon meringue pie recipe in Australia

I am taking out the Australia reference unless someone has a cite. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.175.86.191 (talk) 05:33, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pictures that provide information

I believe there should be a cut-a-way shot of the pie because although the two pictures are lovely, they do not show what is inside the pie, which distinguishes it from all the other froth-topped pies. How do you know there is not chocolate under there? Didn't I post a photo of pie-segment? I'll have to go look. Two pretty shots of the top don't help the uninitiated. We need a cross-section either 2-D drawn or picture or something. And I think an ugly cross-section picture provides more information than two pretty pictures of the top. Think of information versus professional photo shoot. It's not about a Fair's blue ribbon prize. It's about pie structure. Right now the article is handicapped. Kristinwt (talk) 21:10, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And right now there's redundancy because there are two photographs of the exact same thing: unsliced pie. Why are there two? Kristinwt (talk) 21:13, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Something Sweet & photos

Of the three currently non-deleted photographs that JNT724 has uploaded to Wikipedia—Image:Something Sweet Inc. Coconut Cream Pie.jpg, Image:Something Sweet Inc. Lemon Meringue Pie.jpg, and Image:Something Sweet Inc. Apple Crisp.jpg—only the apple crisp photo, because of the advertising text on the photo itself, is inappropriate for general use on Wikipedia based on the content of the photo. What makes all of the photos inappropriate for Wikipedia is that they all have conflicting licenses: JNT724 uploaded them as both public domain and "all rights reserved".

72.88.46.193 noticed this contradiction and tagged them for deletion. These photos do come from Something Sweet's website. In a talk page comment, JNT724^[6] states that the company is owned by his family. I don't know whether he has the authority to release these photos under an open license. Given the promotional nature of his activity on Wikipedia, I doubt that placing them under an open license was his intent.

Checking the logs of these photos, this isn't the first time that they've been uploaded and subsequently deleted for license problems. One problem with his replacement of images is that the old image can be lost when his image is eventually deleted. Anyway, this note was written because the cycle may well repeat itself. — VulcanOfWalden (talk) 17:41, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Source of Recipe

The earliest documented recipe for a baked beaten-egg-white-and-sugar confection is the handwritten recipe for “white bisket bread” by Lady Elinor Fettiplace (c. 1570 - c. 1647) in a manuscript book, dated 1604 3. She lived at Appleton Manor in Berkshire (now in Oxfordshire) a short distance southwest of Oxford with her husband, Sir Richard Fettiplace, and their family. When she died in 1647, she left her book to her niece. Through a long chain of inheritances and marriages, more than three hundred years later, the book finally came into the hands of John Spurling. His wife, Hilary, used the book in the family kitchen for ten years before she wrote, Elinor Fettiplace’s Receipt Book — Elizabethan Country House Cooking, 1986 (Viking Salamander, London). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.17.134.173 (talk) 23:55, 4 April 2010

The text of the article before my re-stubbification on 09 Nov 2010 is based on text taken from the Food Timeline.org's entry on Lemon Meringue Pie. This is somewhere between plagiarism and a copyright violation. As I've mentioned in the Alexander Frehse redux section above, much of this was added as cover to insert the text "[t]he earliest recorded recipe was created by Alexander Frehse" into the article. Between the plagiarism and vandalism, I'm once again re-stubbifying the article. — VulcanOfWalden (talk) 02:45, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Emile Campbell-Browne

I note that this otherwise obscure botanist is mentioned by name in the write up of The Best of British Pies (2019) by Anthony Boundy. Schwede 66 22:14, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that is the power of a Wikipedia hoax. That reference came from the Wikipedia hoax. I am sure that from your vantage in Aotearoa it would be easy to confirm that there was nobody by this name involved in the early Taxonomy of the Snares Penguin which one article claimed. Regards Velella ^{Velella Talk} 22:21, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like the only mentions of this guy are in relation to lemon meringue pie (and the other WP hooks) - not a single non-pie item to be found on the web; notably, nothing connected to botany or academia. That book's author clearly was an avid WP reader :p Based on the obvious hoax character of the image and the recent suspicious proliferation of un- or badly sourced mentions throughout the encyclopedia, I'd tend towards treating this one as guilty unless proven innocent. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 22:26, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I suspected that the book reference has its source in the hoax being spread by those socks doing their thing. My point of posting the above was to elicit the exact response that it got. Thanks, team! Schwede 66 22:38, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ancient?

Article reads "Lemon flavoured custards, puddings and pies have been made since ancient times." Since the ancients probably didn't have lemons, they probably didn't have any of these lemon-based dishes, though they may have had dishes based on citrons.[7] --Macrakis (talk) 19:41, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Probably depends on your definition of 'the ancients' - according to our article on the lemon, it's native to Asia, so ancient Asians would have had access to it, but I don't know whether they made custards, puddings or pies. It goes on to say that it was introduced to Europe in the 2nd Century, which was in the period of Ancient Rome; I don't know whether that would fit anyone's definition of 'the ancients'. Having said all that - the section is entirely unsourced, a sourced history would be far preferable, even if it only starts in the 19th C. GirthSummit _(blether) 19:49, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, "ancient times" is very open-ended and not very meaningful, isn't it? Maybe we should just remove that whole sentence. --Macrakis (talk) 20:02, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]