Talk:Larry Beckett

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Larry Beckett. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080414041325/http://www.timbuckleyandfriends.com/LarryBeckett.html to http://www.timbuckleyandfriends.com/LarryBeckett.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:08, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Larry Beckett. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150416021854/http://books.beatdom.com/?page_id=362 to http://books.beatdom.com/?page_id=362

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:44, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

COI Edit Request for Page Updates

Hello: I am helping Larry Beckett update his Wikipedia page as a COI/Paid Editor. Larry is a poet and would like to bolster that section of his page. He also has some other updates he'd like to make. For today, I would like to request the two following updates. Some of these edits include better sources than originally provided. The part about classmates Tim Buckley and Jim Fielder will be moving to the songwriting section. My goal is always to improve Wikipedia and follow the rules laid out for editing.

LIST OF PROPOSED CHANGES

Current text

Replace with

Larry Beckett (born 4 April 1947) is an American poet, songwriter, and literary critic. As a songwriter and music arranger, Beckett collaborated with Tim Buckley in the late-1960s on several songs and albums, including "Song to the Siren" which has been recorded by many artists.[1]

Larry Beckett (born April 4, 1947) is an American poet, songwriter, musician, and literary critic. His epic, American Cycle, worked on for 47 years, is to be published in 2021 by Running Wild Press. As a songwriter, Beckett collaborated with Tim Buckley in the late 1960s and early 1970s on a number of songs and albums, including Song to the Siren, which has been recorded by many artists from This Mortal Coil to Robert Plant.

LIST OF PROPOSED CHANGES

Current text

Replace with

==Early life== Beckett was born in Glendale, California where his father was an English and speech teacher and his mother worked in the career counseling industry.[2] The Becketts moved around for the first decade of Larry Beckett's life, first to Ashland, Oregon, then back down south to Downey, California and eventually settling in nearby Anaheim when Larry was 10 years old.[2] Larry Beckett attended Loara High School where he developed a passion for writing and poetry.[2] While attending high school Larry Beckett befriended classmates Tim Buckley and Jim Fielder, a relationship that would launch Beckett into music songwriting. The adolescent friends would frequent Hollywood where they were introduced to the area's art and music scene.[2]

==Early life== Beckett was born in Glendale, California. His family moved around for the first decade of his life, first to Ashland, Oregon, then back down south to Downey, California, eventually settling in nearby Anaheim. He attended Trident Junior High School and Loara High School where he showed a passion for poetry.

I greatly appreciate any assistance with making these changes. Best LeepKendall (talk) 20:22, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

@LeepKendall: I added what I believe to be the substance of your suggested improvements, though admittedly not in the same words as you suggested (some of the wording seemed a bit too promotional, and seemed to remove some information). If there's anything else you'd like me to change or add, please let me know :) Yours, Yitz (talk) 22:16, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Hi User:Yitzilitt. I appreciate your help very much! If we add this source to the first sentence in the intro, can we add 'musician' back in between songwriter and literary critic? In the second to last paragraph, it mentions him playing piano and harpsichord on the Eyelids album.

And this source should cover putting back in 'and early 1970s' in his intro regarding his writing with Tim Buckley.

Also, can we say His latest book of poetry, American Cycle will be released in 2021? Here is the reference if that works for you.

Lastly, under Early years, he wanted to take out the part about his parents. Do you think that's an issue? I'm not sure why, but that is what he asked. If it is an issue to delete it, I will let him know. Thanks much! LeepKendall (talk) 00:13, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

References

LeepKendall, Yitzilitt - Hi, both (and Mr Beckett). I'm the editor responsible for starting this article over 14 years ago (!), and I'm glad, firstly, that it's still here, and, secondly, that there are people interested in updating and improving it (including Mr Beckett himself). I admit that monitoring the article has not been high on my priority list, and I'm perfectly content that it be changed around, expanded and improved. But, looking at it anew, as it were, and having had 14 more years experience on this site - and not having monitored carefully the changes made by other editors - there are many details about the article that I would now change. Probably nothing too major, but simply in terms of how important details are presented - for instance, how references are set out, the lack of an infobox, etc. I may make some changes over the next few days, and if others don't like them, we can discuss them here. Just checking - presumably we're all aware of WP:BLP...? And, is anyone prepared to upload a suitable photo? Ghmyrtle (talk) 23:41, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Gah! I'm so excited that you chimed in User:Ghmyrtle! This is so great. Just to bring you up to date, I'm working in a paid COI relationship with Larry. He has a book coming out in a few months - his 47-year work, 10 book-length poems called 'American Cycle.' He realizes that much of his popularity comes from his work with Tim, but he is 1st a poet, and then a lyricist. Our first goal is to add more to the poetry section. Right now I'm working on finding suitable sources. However, if you could move up his poetry section to come after Early Years, that would be great. We have a few paragraphs we want to add to the poetry section. Here is the first which can come after the sentences that are already there. Note that the second source is a track listing and a few graphs describing the album. I doubt we can use it but please check this out, if you would be so kind, and give me your thoughts.

Beckett read two of his 1966 poems, “Found at the Scene of a Rendezvous that Failed” and “Birth Day”, on the Rhino Handmade reissue of the album Tim Buckley, to which he contributed liner notes, including the lyric “1, 2, 3.” He recited “Song to the Siren” and an essay on its composition on the MVDvisual DVD Tim Buckley: My Fleeting House.

Then we have more to add to his songwriting section. In the meantime, I'm working with Larry to find more acceptable sources. I'll start a new section for further requests. User:Yitzilitt I'm also happy to have your help unless you would like Ghmyrtle to take it from here.

p.s. Larry's wife, Laura, a photographer, has a photo we WOULD like to add. That is definitely coming. Thanks to you both. LeepKendall (talk) 23:54, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

It's midnight where I am so I won't be doing any more work on it tonight. So long as the basic principles are maintained, of basing anything in the article on information that has already been published elsewhere rather than new unsourced material, and of making sure that the tone of the article is encyclopedic and not promotional, I'd rather take a back seat in the editing process - partly because my interests have tended to move elsewhere - but, I'm willing to make suggestions (and edits) if I think I can be constructive. (I usually try to be!) Regards, Ghmyrtle (talk) 00:01, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Hey there User:Ghmyrtle and User:Yitzilitt: I feel as though I may have made this thread a little confusing combining requests for different things. I'm going to start a new section for each request - the ones here, and then new ones as well. This one is getting a little unwieldy. Best LeepKendall (talk) 21:35, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

NOTE TO OTHER EDITORS: There is some further discussion at User talk:Ghmyrtle#Quick fix to Larry Beckett Page - I've asked that any further discussion be carried on this page, rather than there. Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:08, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

COI Edits to Intro and Page Order

Hi User:Yitzilitt and User:Ghmyrtle: I'm assuming you have Larry Beckett's page on your watchlist, so I won't tag you each time I post a new section. Let me know if your preference is other than this suggestion. To the intro section, I would like to add musician so it reads ...American poet, songwriter, musician, and literary critic. I'll also include the text request table here if that makes it easier, which includes a source to support this addition.

LIST OF PROPOSED CHANGES

Current text	Replace with
Ralph Laurence Beckett Jr. (born April 4, 1947) is an American poet, songwriter, and literary critic.	Ralph Laurence Beckett Jr. (born April 4, 1947) is an American poet, songwriter, musician, and literary critic.

In the next sentence, can we add 'and early-1970s' so it reads, '...Beckett collaborated with Tim Buckley in the late-1960s and early-1970s on...' The first sentence in the 'Later years' section supports this by talking about Starsailor.

Lastly, can we move the Poetry section up to go between Early life and Songwriting career? We have a few paragraphs about his poetry works through the years we'll be proposing later. Thanks much for your time and consideration. Best, LeepKendall (talk) 00:30, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

References

Two quick points. Firstly, we don't usually need to have citations in the introductory section, because the lead (or "lede" if you prefer) should really be simply a summary of material which is set out and referenced in the rest of the article. Secondly, the structure of the article is something of a mess, which can't really be resolved by simply shuffling sections around. The most logical order, in most biographies, is chronological. I would suggest that should be the basic format of this article, though obviously lists of published works should be in a separate section. Historically (that is, when I first started the article in 2006), there was an over-emphasis on Mr Beckett's writings with Tim Buckley because, frankly, that is how he was best-known to a global audience of readers (and, I'm sure, the easiest to source). That can now be redressed to some extent. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:12, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your notes User:Ghmyrtle. I agree with you about the article structure. I'll go ahead and propose some additions to both his poetry and music sections and then maybe we can work on the best structure for the page once we see how those pan out. I'm hoping my first two requests above can still be accomplished - adding 'musician' to his list, and including ... and late-1970s in the intro about his work with Tim. Perhaps you are leaving those things to another editor including the help of User:Yitzilitt. Thanks again. LeepKendall (talk) 22:28, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

I've made those minor changes. The problem I have is that, in essence, the entire article needs to be rewritten from scratch. Edits in the past have destroyed the article structure, and added in too many relatively unimportant details. A balance needs to be restored, and it needs to be based on what has been written about Mr Beckett in WP:RS elsewhere - while taking due account of his wishes per WP:BLP. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:45, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you User:Ghmyrtle. I agree wholeheartedly about the page being a mess. The Long Lost Band section seems unnecessarily long and detailed. Our objective in working with Larry was to add content to the poetry section to make it a more balanced representation of what he's done. I also have some new content to add to the songwriting section. So far this article has been pieced together over the years by well-meaning volunteer editors. My approach so far has been to get the new content in and then think about structure. Once appropriate new content is added, I'd greatly appreciate your assistance or recommendations in restructuring it if you have the time and inclination. Thanks and best! LeepKendall (talk) 19:12, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

COI Request for Additions to Poetry Section

Larry Beckett has coverage about his writing that I would like to propose adding here to the poetry section of the article. I appreciate any input on these requests.

Beckett read two of his 1966 poems, “Found at the Scene of a Rendezvous that Failed” and “Birth Day”, on the Rhino Handmade reissue of the album Tim Buckley, to which he contributed liner notes, including the lyric “1, 2, 3.” He recited “Song to the Siren” and an essay on its composition on the MVDvisual DVD Tim Buckley: My Fleeting House.

Beat Poetry, with twelve central San Francisco renaissance poems and Beckett’s essays on them reconsidered as literature, was published in 2012. The Jack Kerouac chapter was reprinted in the 2019 anthology Kerouac on Record: A Literary Soundtrack, edited by Simon Warner and Jim Sampas.

And, can we replace the existing two poetry sentences with this content?

LIST OF PROPOSED CHANGES

Current text

Replace with

For 47 years, Beckett worked on American Cycle, a series of long poems: "U. S. Rivers: Highway 1", "Old California", "Paul Bunyan", "Chief Joseph", "Wyatt Earp", "P. T. Barnum", "Amelia Earhart", "Blue Ridge", "U. S. Rivers: Route 66".[3][11] "American Cycle" was completed in 2019 with the final piece "John Henry",[12] and is scheduled to be published in 2021 by Running Wild Press.[12][2]

For 47 years, Beckett worked on American Cycle, a series of long poems: U. S. Rivers: Highway 1, Old California, Paul Bunyan, John Henry, Chief Joseph, Wyatt Earp, P. T. Barnum, Amelia Earhart, Blue Ridge, U. S. Rivers: Route 66. The Cycle's themes are love, local mythology, history, justice, memory, accomplishment, time. Paul Bunyan, Wyatt Earp, and Amelia Earhart were published as individual volumes, Paul Bunyan with a recording of a performance. American Cycle is to be published in 2021.

References

COI Adding Photo to Info Box

Hello: Larry's wife, the owner and photographer of Larry's new photo uploaded it to Wiki. I am going to add it to the page as I don't think it would have any disputes or conflicts. If I am incorrect, please let me know. Best LeepKendall (talk) 18:24, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

I've made a minor tweak to the format as it doesn't need a separate box within the infobox. I guess the date is 2012 - the date should probably be shown. Thanks. Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:48, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes, 2012. Thanks for your help. By the way, I put a request on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Poetry talk page to see if I can get some other editors to join in and assist. Best, LeepKendall (talk) 19:44, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

COI Edits to Larry Becket Page

Hello:

I am working in a COI/paid relationship with the subject of this page, Larry Beckett. Larry would like to add new information to his poetry and songwriting sections. For nearly a month now I have reached out to half a dozen volunteer editors for assistance and posted on the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Poetry page to no avail. I understand the page needs a good deal of work in the formatting area. I'm hoping someone will come along to assist with that. I am going to add some new information to his poetry and songwriting sections and welcome feedback regarding these updates. My goal is to always to improve Wikipedia with integrity and transparency. Best LeepKendall (talk) 22:56, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you

User:Ghmyrtle thank you so much for your help on trimming and reorganizing this article. Best LeepKendall (talk) 17:06, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

COI Request Regarding Article Structure

Hi User:Ghmyrtle: Thanks for all your help on this page. I wanted to ask a question even though I think I can guess the answer. I realize that Larry is 'famous' because of his work with Tim Buckley. However, chronologically speaking, 'technically' his poetry section starts with 1966, and the music says late 1960s. Any chance we can put poetry first and music second? I totally understand why songwriting would probably come first, but wanted to ask as Larry has asked me. Thanks! LeepKendall (talk) 18:48, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

The article doesn't have to be structured in the way it is now - it could simply be done chronologically, as most biographies are, and the headings on "Songwriting" and "Poetry" removed. Alternatively, would it be possible to include his early (pre-Buckley) poetry work in the "Early life" section? The existing sub-headings were added in these edits in 2008, by another editor - they are not sacrosanct, so far as I'm concerned. Articles do change a lot over time! Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:10, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Oh, this is great User:Ghmyrtle. Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions. Best, Kendall — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeepKendall (talk • contribs) 19:18, 12 February 2021 (UTC) LeepKendall (talk) 20:26, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Dec 2024 updates to Larry's page

Hey, gang, I added a number of updates to the page, based on both Larry's recent output and some items he requested that I add. I was getting some error messages about dates, but those have disappeared. If that's someone fixing my novice errors, *thank you*! Loubank (talk) 16:05, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

And I was just told that I did make a novice error: not disclosing my relationship to Larry. I did some minor marketing work for him back in 2020 and have remained in steady contact with him since -- not a business relationship so much as a friendship. He doesn't pay me. He teaches me about poetry, I teach him about marketing. Anyway, as I noted, the changes I made were based on Larry's recent output and some items he requested that I add -- that "he requested" bit is meant to indicate the friendship, but here's that notice explicitly. And, again, thanks to whoever fixed my access dates! Loubank (talk) 19:04, 11 December 2024 (UTC)