Talk:Lara Croft/Archive 1

Archive 1

Judith Gibbins

We currently have no info on Judith or a page linking to her. I'd like to know more about her as she was my favourite Lara voice actress. Magic Pickle 12:59, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Lara's Age

I believe Lara's age has also been dropped. It used to be February 14, 1968 - but ever since the release of the Angel of Darkness it's been listed as 2/14/19?? both on the original website and in the strategy guides for AOD and the Prophecy. I believe the Legend guide also mentions something along the lines of never asking a woman her age.

Lara Croft's past has been changed continuously. In the first Tomb Raider manual it says her parents disowned her. Genjix 13:51, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Now that Crystal Dynamics has rebooted Lady Croft the page has deleted some deprecated biography. Shouldn’t both continuties be covered? – Bossk

I think we should mention in some section the names of the real-life actresses and models that impersonated Lara before Jolie, like Rhona Mitra. Pictureuploader 01:55, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Why is is necessary to have summaries of all the games when they already have summaries on the Tomb Raider series page and their own individual pages? It's not that relevant to the page since this game is about the character Lara Croft and not about the Tomb Raider series. And why does someone deem the Overview section to be irrelevant? I think it is very relevant.198.54.202.195 19:42, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

The article says she became a Countess after her fathers (the Earls) death, which is accurate. How then on this planet did she become Duchess of Saint Bridget?

She was the Duchess of St Bridget in her old biography. She's a Countess in the new one.

lara croft is 40 she turned 40 this year

Outfit

It's been believed for a while that Lara Croft's outfit was ripped (or inspired) from the outfit worn by the female agent (played by Chingmy Yau) in the movie City Hunter, starring Jackie Chan. I believe this deserves a mention in this article, despite it never having been acknowledged by the creators of Lara Croft (as is my understanding). Anyone else feel likewise?

You just answered your own question there buddy - "it never [has] been acknowledged by the creators of Lara Croft" - therefore, there is no substantial proof other than coincidence.143.92.1.40 (talk) 05:52, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Lara Croft based on?

There is apparently a real life lady that Lara Croft is based on. Help? Chris 00:42, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

really? I don't think so though. Didn't the creator just make her a female version of Indiana Jones?

According to the AOD companion, inspirations for Lara include Tank Girl and Neneh Cherry.

If you bought the tombraider dvd you will see, in the bonus features, that lara was actually suppose to look a bit like Indiana Jones, which would later be Von Croy, but because of the possibility of being sued they decided that it would be more beneficial to make the lead character into a woman - thus lara was born.

..and yes, Lara was based a bit on Tank girl. Not sure about Neneh though.. - MoJoe

PICTURE

Shouldnt we put an ols picture beside the new one to compare them ?

There is a picture in the article titled "Lara's evolution through the Tomb Raider series" that does just that. Shrensh 07:49, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

confused by this sentence

I don't know if I'm the only one, but I've been pondering about what this sentence in the article means: Despite some initial reservations, Jolie expressed interest in making a third Tomb Raider movie, cancelled those plans after Cradle of Life failed at the box office. Anyone want to clarify?

Bra Size? Pardon?

Hey, folks! This is just reality checking in to say WHY DO WE KNOW LARA'S BRA SIZE? Where did we learn this information? Was it in the instruction manual? When was this "redesign"? And if this "redesign" is so she becomes more respectable, doesn't this peice of information degrade her reputation?-Shadow the Edge-hog 02:21, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah. Where did you guys find out this piece of info and why does it even matter to begin with? This isn't even useful at all and it just ruins the character and the redesign she took in TRL. We all know Lara' legendary huge ta-tas, but it isn't important for an encyclopedic site such as Wikipedia. Vgamer101 02:00, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it is possible some sicko got their hands on a 3D model of Lara and used the height specifics to make a scale. From there it was measure and submit. Besides, as you said, it doesn't help the liability of Wikipedia. It was probably submitted when Lara was well known for her "ta-tas." But still, it doesn't help her reputation from the "re-design." We might want to delete it, but that would be killing knowledge. That may be considered a bad thing as far as wikipedia is concerned. By the way, has anyone noticed that someone changed the original size from 34C to 34D? -Shadow the Edge-hog 19:43, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Good point. As for it's "killing knowledge", I doubt it. There's currently an entry in the discussion section for the Half-Life character Gordon Freeman over the possibility of an infobox, that hasn't been input yet, that includes a category of all sorts of info about him including, and I kid you not, a category to determine his penis size. I highly doubt that itself would be relevant to anything useful about the character, just as I doubt Lara's breast size is all that appropriate and relevant to her. Vgamer101 04:44, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, I agree with you on relevance, but breasts traditionally show a majority more than (ahem) and are also more significant as far as appearances. Also, we might get a note on our site from Dr Debug about deletion, coupled with a page revert. By the way, who could get Gordon Freeman's (ahem) size? Also, completely off topic as it is, consider writing a brief (yet still saying something about you) user page. -Shadow the Edge-hog 22:29, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Scratch what I said about the character Gordon. It's been removed. So I retract my previous statements. I would have removed that stuff myself but I was stupid enough not to read the instructions on how to remove it. My fault. Anyways, you're right about the greater signifance of her chest size as far as appearance. I was stupid enough not see that. In regards to character appearance, I agree with you. Vgamer101 01:20, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

That's that, enough said, why don't we take this to a poll? I sit on the fence: I see this as morals vs. encyclopedia standards. As much as this tidbit is wrong, it's bad manners to delete it. After all, one man's thoughts may not agree with society. We need a set time limit. A week is short. Month is still not enough. I say same time next year. Enough time for a fairly large, random sample. Put somethin' on both your page and talk page; we need as many votes as possible. Getting down to business, I expect your next edit to include (but is not limited to) your position on this issue plus your opinion on time alowed for votes. This is taking too long. Article talk pages are for discussing possible changes. Also, I will not be voting.-Shadow the Edge-hog 04:13, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I added more to my page and an extra topic to my talk page about a poll. If you have anything to say or ask put it it my talk page. But to get back on topic and include my position on the subject, I just thought of a new problem. Even if the character of Lara Croft's chest is important to her character and how she looks, it would be hard to determine what the size even is. I'm saying this because since 1996, when the TR series first started, her physical appearance has drastically changed, including the size and shape of her ta-tas. Believe me, I seen this hands on. Over time the attitudes towards character design and advancements in graphical technology have rendered coming upon one definitive size rather impossible. I garuantee they were a bit bigger in Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation than they were in Tomb Raider 1, 2, or 3. Or at least I think so. Same goes for their shrinking with more recent entries to the series. Her somehow magically inflating and shrinking chest would probably force this article to have multiple number sizes for each game, if we were to include it here. Vgamer101 17:59, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I was originally wanted the poll to be concerning the relevancy of her bra size. Just her "magic chest" aside, I was going to use the results to decide whether or not the article should feature her bra size. You have a point with the game chest change, but that wasn't really the starting purpose of this section. We could use your observations and use the rest of this talk page section on that topic, but that's not our main concern. Or we could just throw the poll idea out the window and start with the differing breast/bra sizes in the different games. Oh! I really don't think we need any special template. All we really need is to say something along the lines of: Welcome ladies and gentlemen! This on-going talk page section has come to the decision that a poll will be taken on the fate of Lara's bra size. Please vote in the following gap with (so-and-so) colons (:) before your vote. Please state your opinion and a few reasons for your vote. Everyone who sees this should vote. We need all the votes we can get. (end example) The "magic chest" idea presents another reason to vote to keep the bra tid-bit. More information. We still need a time limit too (if we'll still poll, that is). Besides, I'm sick of adding more colons. Keep the current level of 7. Also, this is a little perverted that a small fact(more like fiction) has blown to this level out of proportion. I say we drop it, walk our seperate ways, and noone's the wiser. Also, if anyone picks up our legacy, I won't help. Cool? -Shadow the Edge-hog 00:08, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

It's cool. And yes it is a little perverted to have it this long. I was just trying to point something out. Yeah, I sure think that someone could easily pick up on our notoriety for this. Let's stop it here. Vgamer101 00:54, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

That's not so good

Aside from the several other problems with this cruft of croft, sections of her biography appear to be based on this:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=83405095

Or maybe the myspace came after. Someone should look into it. Balonkey 06:29, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Controversy

I just have two real concerns I would like to point out with this article (except for it being quite poorly written)

Why are her body's measurements even mentioned? This doesn't really contribute anything to the article. She's a digital character made up from polygons, and no other video game character has such trivial things mentioned.

Why is not her being overly sexualised mentioned in the controversy section? That seems to have been the most controversial thing about her - and possibly the reason why her measurements was added in the first place. I had never even heard of the people complaining at her character being cold-blooded. Sam Fisher and such appear way more cold-blooded to me (but perhaps it's not 'lady-like' enough for some americans).

85.225.25.163 22:39, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Why are things mentioned--because some people want to know. That's more than enough reason, right there.

Last Thylacine 11:32, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

"Some have still derided her form as being unrealistic (especially in regard to her BMI)" there's no source for this, and personally I have never seen any complaints of the sort about her redesign, which was made to be more proportionally accurate, and massively toned down certain parts of her body.172.212.111.208 (talk) 21:54, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Femme fatale

Seems Lara is listed as a fictional femmes fatales, but I completely fail to see how she qualifies as one. Does anyone know if there is something in her history that would support the claim? 193.64.250.106 10:09, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

There seems to be some confusion over the word's literal and figurative meaning. Whilst Lara could be described as a 'deadly woman', she does not possess any of the general characteristics associated with a "femme fatale" - a seductive, manipulative and dangerous woman. 80.47.178.255 17:04, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

That is Lara all right. Anubiz 18:18, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

How?Super Badnik 21:22, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Revise?

It is said the original name for Lara Croft was to be Laura Cruz. It was later changed to Lara Croft due to the fact that an American accent would change the pronunciation of "Laura" to "Lara", and that "Cruz" didn't sound British. Because of the similar pronunciations, she is sometimes referred to as Laura.

this passage from the main article needs to be revised, but I'm a newbie and don't want to ruin it, I suggest that the weasel words be removed and that it cites the Tomb Raider main page as a source. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.91.75.120 (talk) 08:11, 25 February 2007 (UTC).

Biography

I'm not sure about the original biography before the retcon, but the retcon section is copied (almost directly) from the biography in the strategy guide of the game and is a copyright violation. I might try and clean it soon, but just pointing this out so maybe someone else can clean it up too. Phydend 00:53, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

 Done ColdFusion650 01:46, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Present tense & incorrect facts

Firstly, all of Lara's biography has been written in present tense when it happened in the past, these events not even present in any of the games. When the article talks about her current liofe however, it should indeed stay in present tense. Secondly, Lara's mother was never called 'Amelia', nor her father 'Richard', they were only ever mentioned as Lord and Lady Henshingly-Croft. Thirdly, there is insufficient evidence supporting the statement, " Lara thrives in individual barefoot sporting activities such as competitive swimming, platform and springboard diving, gymnastics and martial arts." No official biographies mention this.

8:52, Monday 19th July 2007

Breast Size

I think that it would be interesting to make a note of why they're inflated, it's because a designer accidentally adjusted the model's chest to 150% its intended size. This would be interesting information, but I'm not sure where it would belong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shroopliss (talk • contribs) 22:21, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Presuming you can cite this with a reliable source, then it could be included in the article. Somehow it seems slightly unrealistic to me... ~~ [Jam]^[talk] 22:34, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

The main Tomb raider article includes this story, but the link it cites[1] does not include all of the details described (in fact, he might well only be joking in that interview.) 72.1.202.145 (talk) 00:57, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

The Face's interview with Gard always struck me as being a bit tongue-in-cheek. I don't know if it should be considered a reliable source. In the TRA bonus DVD he says she was intentionally designed with exaggerated proportions simply because realism was impossible at the time. This article says her physical attributes were exaggerated "to make it very clear in game that she was a woman." I don't know if any of that is worth adding to the article.~ Dusk Knight 05:08, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Weapons

I see the article says that Lara uses Springfield Armory 1911's in anniversary. There is no proof of this in the game or any related media. I think it should be changed to simply "Stainless or Nickle plated 1911's" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.9.124.63 (talk) 04:14, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Re-rated

Two very big things: first, given the context of the article, I re-rated it C-class, and after looking at it again bumped it down to start. There is no real 'structure' to this article and the real citable information is strewn across the article rather poorly...and you guys find it more imperative to discuss whether her cup size being known is bad or good? Seriously, priorities?

Also, hands down the image selected is conveying next to nothing to a casual reader: the requirement is an iconic image, not the absolutely most recent one. I can't see how a mugshot of a dirty Lara Croft is appropriate to convey immediately to a viewer her appearance.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 23:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I changed the lead image to a more iconic (or at least more recognisable) one. Can you offer any suggestions or examples for improving the structure?~ Dusk Knight 05:57, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

For starters, the Controversy section is mostly original research; first off it's already well established she's a sex symbol, and there's not a whole lot of need to go "some fans" and so forth. Discuss the character as one in a subsection of cultural impact, how it's been regarded, and her designer's reaction to the status. That's important. This stuff about her shooting animals and whatnot isn't needed either: that's a common issue between fans and a character, and most of the "research" to support the rest of that is just original research on vague in-game bits.

The article needs to be organized from a neutral, all sides approach. Look at Master Chief (Halo) for example for how an article should be set up. It's a featured article for a reason; Lara Croft should be able to pull off a character article like that and far beyond it.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 01:51, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Lead Image

I have added a new image. Taking in the discussion higher up on the page, i think Lara's whole body is more reconisble than just her face and her anniversary blue sweater.Super Badnik 19:07, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I thought I'd throw in my views on images here, just as a passing observation. The new lead image is good, I'd say its much better than the previous one. However, I think that the other images in the thread could be overhauled. Looking at this from the broader perspective, there's more to Lara Croft now than just the video game character. Firstly: there's also the models who advertise for the game. Now, there's already one of these images with Katie Price as the model, but its frankly rather rubbish. To be honest, I'd much rather have a high quality non-free image of a Lara model, than a low quality free one. At the very least, crop the free image so it excludes the other models, as they just confuse the issue even with a caption. The other element is the films. Angelia Jolie's portray of the character in reasonably high-profile and high budget films is worthy of note to the character. Granted, the current level of coverage for Jolie's portayal in this article is really underdeveloped, but an image of Jolie as the character wouldn't go amiss for when an accomodating structure is implemented. -- Sabre (talk) 23:57, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree, i thtink we should have something more on the character's appearances and portrayal in films. Maybe a movie section, as we do have quite a bit of info on Jolie's portrayal as Lara from extra's on the video/DVD and other sources. Also i've replaced the image in the Combat section to one of artwork of Lara during the 90s, as there is alot of artwork of Lara in this style and is very iconic.Super Badnik 18:30, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

I think it's good that we have both Core and Crystal artwork. I've added a picture of Alison Carroll to the models section and a small gallery of past models. There are too many good free pictures of Alison to rationalise a fair-use image. I've also been working on an "Appearances" section that should accommodate an Angelina Jolie picture better than the current "Actor Portrayal" section. Once I've done some more work, I'll post a link here for feedback since it's a significant change.~ Dusk Knight 06:15, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Another thing, shouldn't the "Actor Portrayal" section be named simply "Portrayal" or something along those lines, as it includes Lara Models.Super Badnik 16:49, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't think the Actor Portrayal is needed now since all the major actors are listed in the infobox and mentioned in the Appearances section. By the way, I hope you don't mind that I merged the Appearances section I was working on into the one you created recently. I had been working on that for a while, so I didn't want it to go to waste.~ Dusk Knight 05:19, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Good job Dusk Knight. Isn't there a planed TR3 movie? Maybe that was just speculation, but i read it somewhere else here. I don't think we need to seperate the CORE developed games and CD ones as they both fall under Video Game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Super Badnik (talk • contribs) 07:59, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Yeah, the CD/Core subsections are not necessary. There's a news channel for a third TR movie on tombraiderchronicles.com. But since we won't learn anything about Lara's role until it is much further along, it's more relevant to the Tomb Raider (series) article for now. I guess we could briefly mention that Angelina Jolie has expressed an interest in returning to the role.~ Dusk Knight 02:16, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Animal Controversy?

Im looking at the controversy section and im not sure the bit about how Lara faces wildlife and animals should be there. I've never really seen anything critising the the wild animals Lara faces and i have never seen anything complaining of the animal enemies in Underworld as it is implied in the controversy section. I really don't think this information is very correct, if it is, i cannot see that it is a big enough issue.Super Badnik 20:50, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I haven't seen anything criticizing this either. It think that Lara regretting killing animals in TRL and the tranquilizer in TRU were simply design decisions to reflect her character. There's no indication that these were in response to any real controversy.~ Dusk Knight 01:36, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah i think this is what this is based around, the pity she shows in TRL and the Tranq Gun. I will remove these parts, however, if anyone can find anything to back these comments up (That Lara's fights with wild animals has become controversial) then i have no problem with it being undone. If anyone does find anything that critticizes the animal enemies, then do write about it if it's a valid source.Super Badnik 14:27, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Image Caption

To the person who keeps the changing the image caption. It is far more apporiate to say what the image is showing, in this case Lara Croft, protagnoist of the Tomb Raider series. And the image isn't a new design, Lara appeared like this in the first game. I think when you keep refering to this "new design" you men the difference in artwork (more up to date and realastic) that has appeared since AoD. That kinda is just the type of render, not a new design.Super Badnik 16:32, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Article Rate

Maybe this article should be re-rated now. I do not have much experience when it comes to rating articles but i think it may be better than start class now. We now have much more information (that we really needed) e.g. Appearances section. I also added a merchandise section a long while back.Super Badnik 18:52, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I think the article is approaching B-class if it's not already there. I'm not too experienced with ratings either so I'm not sure. I do know that the original B rating was very incorrect. At least by the current standard. We could post a request at Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Assessment/Requests.~ Dusk Knight 05:38, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Maybe we should see if we can get "C" first and then see if it matches up to a "B".Super Badnik 15:45, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Lara's age

Firt of all, if lara was born 2/14/68, wouldn't that mean she's in her late thirties? But I have been hearing in AOD, that she was 35, so that would mean she is her late fourties? I don't get it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SilverRoseSweetie (talk • contribs) 00:49, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Info about Lara's age was removed from this article recently and I wasn't sure where to add it back. I'm also lacking a proper citation for the AoD artbook... Anyway, these are the three official statements about her age that I'm aware of.

• The game (TRC) also reveals Lara's birthyear of 1968 on a memorial statue shown in one of the FMVs.
• The Angel of Darkness art book [?] appears to retcon Lara's birth year from the previous game by listing her birthday as February 14, 19##. The last two digits of the year are scratched out to the point of being unreadable with the phrase "It's rude to ask a lady her age" written beside them.
• When asked about Lara's age, Eric Lindstrom, Creative Director for Tomb Raider: Underworld stated in a BBC interview that Lara is "6 months younger than James Bond", she "transcends time [and] space", and "has her own world"

I guess age could be added to the "Appearances" section since most of the backstory info is there.~ Dusk Knight 05:05, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Her age was recently added with no source. I think that, given all the different ages floating around, a section (with accurate references!) within the "Appearances" section might be most appropriate. ~~ [ジャム]^[talk] 09:01, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I really don't think her age matters. It is obvisouly disputed and i think the 19## and a few comments from Lindstrom show that Lara dosen't really have an exact age and dosen't have a D.O.B. as she probably isn't supposed to age in the TR universe.Super Badnik 11:44, 30 November 2008 (UTC)lara croft is 40 years old she turned 40 this year yes it's true she looks so young like a 23 year old but she's actually old

Assessment

Here's the blow-by-blow account of the article. Lead:

• "In 2008, she was named second on Gamefly's List of Hottest Chicks Ever." - Not especially fond of picking out one of many many different such lists. This could be replaced with a more general statement, but I'm not sure what.
• "In late 2008, "MSN" held a poll of who was the most Iconic video game character, in which Lara came 3rd but actually drew with Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog" - Ditto, plus the fact that A) the polls seem to be ongoing a la Hot or Not, and B) according to this she's now in fourth place. Bad choice of source here.

Development:

• "Lara was originally going to be very militaristic and cold-blooded." This sentence feels awkward because we haven't discussed Lara's in-use personality at all outside of the lead. I recommend moving the section further down.
• "One factor that influenced Gard to use a female character was..." - several sentences divide this and the later "Toby Gard's idea to make the character a female was also..."; the two should be together. Don't be afraid to split up the information from a single source to put like ideas together.

Personality:

• I'd prefer more citations here, as there seems to be some interpretation of Lara's behavior as a player-character. Problematic sentences:
  • "rarely showing any sign of fear in very dangerous or lethal situations."
  • "In the earlier games she is portrayed as being more serious" -- more borderline case
  • "although Lara does kill them in self-defence" -- feels like a justification rather than anything to do with her character.
• Game names should be in italics.

Costume and Equipment:

• I find it odd an equal amount of attention is given to Lara's clothes as it is her personality. I'm not sure a game-by-game account is warranted here.

Video games: pretty good overall here

• Discussing Angel of Darkness:"the segment explaining her survival was cut from the final game." ideally should be cited, imo.
• Keeley Hawes quote belongs in the personality section, because that's what the quote talks about.
• "From 2006 forward, handheld releases follow the same stories as the home console and PC games." - I would name the games specifically, for completeness' sake (and if a later one doesn't follow this trend the article doesn't need to be changed).

Other Media:

• "brought to life" - I don't care for the phrase, especially since non-native English speakers may not be familiar with it.
• " The film follows Lara's race against time and Manfred Powell, the main antagonist, as well as his mercenaries to find the Triangle of Light." - This sentence doesn't parse well. I'd cut out the "as well as his mercenaries" part for brevity's sake.
• "before it falls into the hands of main antagonist." - missing a "the" here. Also, the "main antagonist" is never named, curiously enough.

Models: No complaints aside from a tendency towards WP:Proseline.

Controversy: Surprisingly good.

• "However, in Tomb Raider: Legend Lara expresses sadness" - Again, this seems like justification and doesn't really address the controversy. Could probably cut this sentence out entirely.

Reception and Cultural Impact:

• The MSN poll is a bad source, for reasons I've covered above
• "The website Education City parodies Lara Croft in a series of games starring "Klara Loft"." - uh, what? Why this one out of countless other parodies?

In general:

• I wouldn't cite to screenshots, especially those hosted on a wiki. It creates the false impression that the statement being "cited" is more important than it actually is. For instance, "Supernatural beings" in the lead doesn't need to be cited because the plot summary later refers to them.
• Fix up your references with proper {{cite}} tags, and condense multiple references to one page using the <ref name> tag.
• Link as closely to what you want to talk about as possible. this link which I noticed as labeled as "images.google.co.uk" should link directly to that specific entry instead.
• What's up with Category:Top Cow characters?
• The prose overall needs to be edited for coherence. Right now it's very obvious a half-dozen or more different writers worked on this, without much to tie sentences, paragraphs, and sections together.
• Make sure your UK English is consistent: I see one instance of the US "Artifact" and there are probably other words I'm not aware of.

Conclusion: The development and characteristics sections are in pretty bad shape, but the later sections make up for it. References throughout the article, though quite a few seem frivolous. Images all seem to be in proper shape. It's messy but substantial, very C-class material. Nifboy (talk) 01:57, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Weapons and Equipment

It feel that the section is too long. I think just a mention of Lara's trademark pistols, a mention she has other firearms that vary in each game, mention she uses a grapple hook and maybe her binoculars. At the moment i feel it's a bit long for a somewhat minor factor and why does Lara's handguns need to be compared with Indiana Jones' Whip?Super Badnik 11:41, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Collapsible table with references

The reference notes ([1],[2],[3], etc.) won't work if you click on them. The Collapsible table with references from the References section must be opened/shown to make the reference notes of the article to work. I made it collapsible but I do want it to remain like this. Does anyone knows the solution? --TudorTulok (talk) 13:42, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Collapsible tables aren't exactly discouraged - they just aren't common. See WP:CITE#Collapsible tables for details. I think that while it is an unusual format (I'm going to rename the table to just References), it is a good idea because of the number of sources. ~~ [ジャム]^[t - c] 18:12, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

MediaWiki talk:Editnotice-0-Lara Croft

I wanted to do an editnotice for Lara Croft article at MediaWiki:Editnotice-0-Lara Croft see talk page MediaWiki Talk:Editnotice-0-Lara Croft. I want to notice the user when he/she is on the edit text page that the user edits an British-English article. I wanted such thing as a wikipedia standard. See Help Desk. --TudorTulok (talk) 17:16, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Note: I've moved the previous editnotice request to Template talk:Editnotices/Lara Croft, since that's where article space editnotices are living now. Please rerequest there once you're ready. --Amalthea 14:59, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I think the edit notice is a good idea. Many of the spelling "corrections" are from well meaning anonymous IPs who probably don't think to look for such things at the talk page first.~ Dusk Knight 19:24, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I also agree that this would be a good idea. I concur with Dark Night that many of the anon IPs that edit the page are probably doing so in good faith, assuming the article is in American English. A polite notice to inform them this is not the case, and politely asking them not to change the spellings unless they are actually incorrect, might deter them from accidentally switching them to American English. ~~ [ジャム]^[t - c] 21:32, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I also like this idea. How would one go about requesting such a feature? Do you have to contact an administrator? Or can a normal user do it themselves? Neu_tralle 11:16, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

 Done, seeing that you all agree, and looking at the amount of time spent changing and reverting the language. Cheers, Amalthea 11:32, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Article in Leonardo

While browsing for literature about historical computer games for a student assignment I came across an article in Leonardo from 2001 called "Does Lara Croft Wear Fake Polygons? Gender and Gender-Role Subversion in Computer Adventure Games" by Anne-Marie Schleiner. Seems like an interesting academic perspective on the character. I'll just add it to the article as "Further reading" so it doesn't disappear into the archives. It's accessible through JSTOR if anyone's interested.

Peter ^Isotalo 22:30, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Located a transcription of the article here.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 22:43, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Goodie. JSTOR is a wonderful resource, but acces to it is sorta biased towards the academic world. Images are not the same, but I assume the text is. It's a rather different perspective than what you find in most articles on video game characters, so it'll be fun to see what you VG regulars make of it. :-)

Peter ^Isotalo 23:14, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Assessment for B-Class

I have requested an assessment of Lara Croft to see if it can be improved to attain B-class. Phynicen ^"Chat" 20:09, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

B-class Assessment

1) The article is suitably referenced, with inline citations where necessary.

• YPass, although I removed a little bit regarding the third un-made film which lacked citations, tagged for months.

2) The article reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies.

• YPass, nothing missing for the casual reader as far as I can see.

3) The article has a defined structure.

• NFail, lead section shouldn't have citations in it. Awards can be cited in the "Critical Reception" section, thus not requiring them in the lead. Description of plot/theme citations can be put into "Appearances" section, thus not requiring them in the lead.

4) The article is reasonably well-written.

• YPass, looks good, reads well, although improving to have more flowing prose rather than short stubby paragraphs will help it further.

5) The article contains supporting materials where appropriate.

• YPass, good usage of images.

6) The article presents its content in an appropriately accessible way.

• YPass, although echo concerns raised in item 4 for future movement up the quality scale.

Hope this assessment helps, feel free to poke me at my talk page with comments/queries. --Taelus (talk) 23:45, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I believe that one issue about citations being in the lead has been fixed. I left the sentence about Lara croft's image as I believe it gives a good, quick summary about what Lara Croft does. Phynicen ^"Chat" 22:16, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

The sentances are fine in the lead, the citations just need to be somewhere else. I believe one way to summarise it is that the lead section doesn't need in-line citations, as long as the facts presented there are clearly sourced in the main article segment. Anyway, meets the criteria now, will mark as B-class and retag at WP:VG/A. --Taelus (talk) 22:21, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Drive by copyedit

Starting with the reception section, just pointing out things that seem odd to me as I read through it:

• "IGN's Jesse Schedeen described Lara Croft as one of few characters to receive a decent videogame-to-movie adaptation."

This feels a little out of place, as it seems more a note of the films themselves than of the character, no? The rest seem fine but this one sentence seems to stand out...

• The Fan Response paragraph still feels odd to me where it is...it might be better up directly below the lead paragraph for Critical Reception as a part of the section's lead-in, as it does help build momentum.

I'll add more to this when I can...sorry it's taken me so long to take a look at this man.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 01:48, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

When you consider how long it took me to start work on the article, I can't really complain. :-p Real-life happens.

Back on point. I moved the Schedeen sentence. Hopefully it flows better. When I researched the character, I literally grab almost everything I thought was relevant. The intro paragraph to "Cultural impact" ended up as the dumping ground for content that didn't seem to fit elsewhere. So if the Schedeen's statement adds little then we can take it out. Though I think that the movie milestones (highest-grossing video game movie and largest opening) are in the same boat.

I admit that the fan response is one of the weaker section in the article. But I'm hesitant to add it to the "Critical reception" because that section deals with comments from industry professionals. I guess we can rename it just "Reception". Thoughts? (Guyinblack25 ^talk 15:07, 28 June 2010 (UTC))

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Lara Croft/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Harrias ^talk 21:07, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Just scanned through the article, and it certainly doesn't quick fail. Will go through bit by bit from here; pace will depend on how many issues I find, but on the whole it looks pretty good.

Lead

• (second para) "The new developed rebooted the character.." I assume you mean to say "The new developer..."?
• "Lara Croft has been voiced by four actresses throughout the series: Shelley Blond, Judith Gibbins, Jonell Elliott, and Keeley Hawes." – Would it be worth mentioning in this bit that she was portrayed by Angelina Jolie in the films? For some, this will be the prinicipal medium in which they have seen her.
• "This status has been a point of contention among critics." – This seems oddly placed on the end of the paragraph. Could it be made to flow slightly more, or maybe given a tiny bit more depth, even in the lead?

Design

• This section appears to relate entirely to her visual appearance, except that it says "English". I accept that she is depicted as being English, it just seemed odd given the rest of the paragraph is visual.

Right, I intended to get through more than that, but I've come over really tired, so I'll have to come back to it tomorrow. I would invite you to start responding to my comments as soon as you wish. Harrias ^talk 21:07, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

I copy edited the lead per your comments. I'll work on the "Design" section later. Do you suggest providing more information about the character's backstory? I've been on the fence whether that should be added or not. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 21:49, 6 July 2010 (UTC))

Yeah, I'd say more information on the back-story would be relevant. Not over the top, given it's an article about a character, not a biography. But I think it would definitely be worth adding something about it, assuming you can find RS for the information. I'm at work at the moment, so I'll continue the review later. Harrias ^talk 09:26, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

I recall some info here and there. I'll have to dig it up though. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 14:18, 7 July 2010 (UTC))

Appearances

• "2003 saw the release of Tomb Raider: The Angel of Darkness," – per WP:ORDINAL, a year should not start a sentence, try rewording it? (I know you probably did it like this to offer some variety!)
• At the start of the paragraph you use "travelling" while later on you use "traveling". I haven't had a chance to pay much attention to whether the rest of the article uses British or American spellings, but can you be consistent throughout?

Development history

• "..character's set of moves three fold to allow more interaction.." – I *think* "three fold" should just be one word, "threefold".
• "Excess content, missed production deadlines, and Eidos's desire to coincide release with the Tomb Raider film resulted in a poorly designed game, however; Lara Croft was brought back to life without explanation and the character controls lacked precision. – Not keen on this sentence, it doesn't flow right. Might be solved simply by removing the word 'however'?

Right, that's the end of my lunch-break. I'm just about to start the "Switch to Crystal Dynamics" section (note for my sake more than yours). Harrias ^talk 12:33, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

I believe I fixed the above issues. In regard to the British vs American spelling, I tried to maintain British English. Travelling with two "L"s was not a difference I was aware of. Someone else fixed the first instance, but the second one went unnoticed until now. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 14:18, 7 July 2010 (UTC))

Switch to Crystal Dynamics

• As we're using British English: "Rachel Weisz was rumored to provide voice work for the character" should be "rumoured".
• "Staff used the death to illustrate that shooting a person should be a difficult choice and Lara Croft's guilt afterward." – The second part of this sentence seems fragmented, "and Lara Croft feels guilt afterward."? or "portrayed by Lara Croft's guilt afterward."? Or something else?
• "Spherical harmonics add indirect lighting to in-game objects like Lara Croft to make them appear more natural in the surroundings." – Again, sounds a bit weird, more like a review about something current, or yet to come out, certainly doesn't sound too encyclopedic. Similar for the next sentence too, possible try rewording this paragraph a bit?

Hopefully addressed the points.

I was concerned that the technical information in the article would be a snag at review because it was difficult to write. Present tense was used because those effects occur in real time. Any time you play the game, the gaming system will dynamically create the visual effects while you play. In that sense, the effects occur in the present. Typically in articles, I've seen graphics creation that are made as static elements referred to in past tense. Like a pre-rendered background is created by capturing a still image of 3D graphics, but that image loads while playing the game.

I always find it tricking when writing such things because the sentences frequently switch tense, which I understand can break the flow. I'm unsure if my edits to the article improved this though. Let me know. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 21:53, 7 July 2010 (UTC))

Promotion and merchandising

• Link Minden, Nevada in the second paragraph, and Toy Biz in the third.
• Modelled takes a double 'l' in British English. (third paragraph)
• And although "licensed" is correct, "license" should be "licence". (noun takes c, verb s)

Model portrayal

• British English uses "dialogue", not "dialog". (Also, earlier in the article, I've just noticed, "installment" should be changed to "instalment", and "skeptical" should be "sceptical".)
• Might be worth putting SAS in brackets after Special Air Service, although the link will make it clear, for those not wanting to follow the link, SAS is more commonly known.

Cultural impact

• "signaled -> "signalled" Might be worth having a double check through the article for these double consonant extensions, I'm sure I've missed some!
• "The character is honoured in the British city Derby,.." – Might this read better as "British city of Derby,"

And another batch done; will hopefully finish it off tonight or tomorrow for you, finding it a really interesting article though, and it'll be an easy pass, just with a few more copy-edits first! Harrias ^talk 14:52, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Most of the points have been addressed. I need to look up more about the backstory and I didn't add the "of" to Derby. I've avoided such wording in the past as I thought it was redundant. Let me know if you think otherwise. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 15:16, 8 July 2010 (UTC))

Yeah, I can understand your reasoning for the 'of'. I'm not that fussed either way, I just had to re-read it first time to make sense of it. With regards to the back-story; I'm happy that the article is up to Good article standards without it, and will happily pass it without you having done that (though you'd need it before a featured article review I'd say). But, if you'd rather I didn't pass it until you did it (to make sure you do it to standard,) I'm happy to wait. Harrias ^talk 15:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Given your already helpful suggestions, I would certainly appreciate the input. I plan to check online sources today. Depending on how much I find in them, I'll need to check two print sources at home later. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 15:37, 8 July 2010 (UTC))

I think that's about all I can add without going into trivial details. But I typically try to err on the side of caution for these things, so it might still be too little. Let me know what you think. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 18:14, 8 July 2010 (UTC))

Right, I've been through the rest of the article, and the information added in for the back-story, and I'm happy with it all. I've made a fair few changes regarding US spellings. I'm now happy to pass this article, well done, it was an interesting read. Harrias ^talk 07:09, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Series reboot met with "mixed responses?"

I noticed this in the lead of the article. "The character's debut was well-received by the video game industry, but slowly declined until the series' reboot in 2006, which was met with mixed responses." As far as the gaming press goes, TR:L and TR:U were received reasonably well, scoring around the 75-85 range on many publications. Is it proper to say that the reboot was met with "mixed responses?" TheKillerAngel (talk) 04:44, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

The games were moderately well-received, but the rebooted aspects of the character was met with mixed responses. See the last paragraph in Lara Croft#Critical reception.

Perhaps the wording in the lead could be tweaked to better reflect this. Any suggestions? (Guyinblack25 ^talk 14:41, 16 July 2010 (UTC))

http://www.themarysue.com/tomb-raider-rape-press-release/
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.208.189.26 (talk) 10:01, 15 June 2012 (UTC) http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/13/tomb-raider-lara-croft-rape-attempt?newsfeed=true
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4371551/Lara-Crofts-rape-ordeal-in-Tomb-Raider-video-game-hell.html
http://jezebel.com/5918222/the-rapey-lara-croft-reboot-is-a-fucked+up-freudian-field-day
http://www.newser.com/story/148056/lara-crofts-makeover-looks-sexist.html
http://kotaku.com/5917400/youll-want-to-protect-the-new-less-curvy-lara-croft
http://www.salon.com/2012/06/14/lara_croft_battles_male_jerks/singleton/
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/media/2012/06/hey-lets-evolve-lara-croft-having-people-try-rape-her
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/902027-outrage-at-attempted-rape-scene-in-new-lara-croft-video-game

This Wikipedia article is totally bland and misses all the controversy about the character redesign that is going on outside the "loyal fanship", who apparently control this page.

Timeline of Lara Croft's voice actresses for different language versions of the main games

I start this section of discussing to state that we need the Timeline, as it was reverted. I come also with the list of references.

My statement of using the timeline: it is said that Lara is able to speak dozen of languages... so it made me curios how she sounds in other languages... Lara Croft's voice being very important for the English speakers, but an English speaker might not care how she sounds in other languages... I understand that some English speakers (not necessarily native speaakers) might not even concern how she sounds in one other language (other voice different then original is the way she is perceived by the other language listeners), but the English article is the one of the broadest and really read article, the timeline is ment to keep overall statistic in time (now and future). User Guyinblack25 stated the revert like this :Revert good faith edit- I'm sure a lot of work went into that, but that is excess detail and unsourced for the non-English voice actresses, see the revert here

I don't feel the timeline to be an "excess" information, on the contrary, I feel it simplifies the way you perceive all voice actresses, not giving you a normal plain list.

Here are the references (every wikipedia article tells details about their contribution as voice actresses):

• Françoise Cadol on French wikipedia
• Elda Olivieri on Italian wikipedia
• Marion von Stengel on German wikipedia
• Charo Soria ref. 1 on eldoblaje.com
• Soria ref. 2 on eldoblaje.com
• Ana Jiménez on eldoblaje.com
• Megumi Ogata on English wikipedia
• Atsuko Tanaka on English wikipedia
• Takako Honda on English wikipedia

Thank you! --TudorTulok (talk) 17:06, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

While I appreciate the info and the time put into it, I'm still not convinced that it is relevant to the topic. For starters, information relevant to other languages is typically excluded from articles unless the topic originated from another country. Since Lara Croft was an English creation, such content adds little unless it is covered by third-party sources. Generally, Wikipedia is not considered a reliable source for citing content on Wikipedia. That being said, what makes the other source (eldoblaje.com) reliable per WP:RS? (Guyinblack25 ^talk 22:38, 7 February 2011 (UTC))

I don't feel to add anything more. I add here the timeline in discussion:

--TudorTulok (talk) 19:58, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

trying to attribute some kind of significance to this timeline feels like WP:OR to me. Nczempin (talk) 22:46, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I got it, it's a stupid idea for 2011. I mean it.--TudorTulok (talk) 16:28, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

I refer to my idea (The "Global Timeline" idea). Sorry for ambiguities.--TudorTulok (talk) 16:29, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

I wouldn't call it stupid. It's just unsuitable for Wikipedia without third-party coverage. Wikipedia's playground, Wikipedia's rules.

To be honest, I spent months immersed in writings about the character and never found out about other voice actors outside the English ones. Which makes me feel rather stupid. So I for one find it informative, and would like the time line remain here on the talk page for archival purposes. At least its someone on the net. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 17:24, 23 February 2011 (UTC))

Post-FAC comments

One of the problems I saw with the article at FAC was that the cultural impact section seems to me too fragmented -- it doesn't draw the many sources together well enough. Here's a proposed rewrite of the first three paragraphs of the reception section; I've cut all the citations for now as I don't have the sources myself, but I think they could be easily readded since this text is based on what's there now. The only exception is a couple of dates, which I've put in as "199x"; I think those would be nice to have but aren't critical.

The first Tomb Raider was commercially successful, with PlayStation Magazine attributing the game’s success to Lara Croft’s character. Croft was widely regarded as an innovation in the video game market with “her ballsy attitude and tough girl image”; she became extremely popular, and has been described as a video game icon of that generation of games. Her popularity may even have been responsible for the rise in PlayStation sales in 199x. However, it has been argued, conversely, that it was the game’s success that led to Croft becoming well known, with coverage of Croft in the Financial Times in 199x suggested as the starting point of mainstream attention to the character.

Croft’s popularity declined over the next few years, with poorly received video game and film releases. Computer and Video Games magazine described her as “old and tired” when the fourth game, The Last Revelation was released, in 1999. Although the first film, which appeared in 2001, was relatively well-received, the second, Cradle of Life, released in 2003, was much less popular. The character’s low point may have been reached that same year with the release of The Angel of Darkness: “the queen is dead” was one comment, and the string of unsuccessful titles had by this time relegated Croft’s character to a “gaming also-ran”, in the words of reviewer Ryan Rayhill.

Crystal Dynamics’ reboot of Croft in Legend in 2006 was widely, though not universally, praised. The game itself was named one of the top 50 games of the year by Game Informer, which cited the changes made to Croft’s character as part of the reason for her resurgence. Her updated appearance and the additional gameplay manoeuvres pleased some, with one reviewer asserting “Lara is finally back”, but others disagreed: Croft’s unsophisticated outfit made her look like a 1990s “15-year old floozy”, according toOfficial U.S. PlayStation Magazine. A review in GamePro ranked the reboot as the sixth worst game character makeover, and Croft was listed by another reviewer as the second most overrated video game character. One aspect of the makeover which particularly annoyed Croft’s fans was the switch from wearing a braid to a pony tail.

Any comments? If this approach seems OK to others, I'd be happy to try rewriting the whole section like this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:24, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the very delayed response. May wasn't a good month for wiki-matters.

I've been re-reading the reception with your suggestions in mind for a draft of my own below. I tried to consolidate the content more. Though I still believe that proper attribution in the prose is the way to go. Otherwise, the prose would rely on ambiguous weasel words.

Lara Croft's introduction was widely regarded as an innovation in the video game market,^{[3][122][123][124]} with Rob Smith of PlayStation: The Official Magazine describing her as a video game icon of that generation of games.^[67] IGN credited a rise in PlayStation sales in part to Croft's debut on the system,^[7] and PlayStation Magazine attributed the first title's success to the character.^[125] Official U.S. PlayStation Magazine stated alternatively that Tomb Raider's PlayStation success propelled the character to prominence, making her a mascot for the system.^[126] PlayStation Magazine credits coverage in the Financial Times in 1997 as the starting point of the character's mainstream attention.^[84] As years progressed, Lara Croft's popularity declined, which Game Informer attributed to a string of bad video game sequels and the poorly received film sequel.^[55] The Angel of Darkness is often cited as the character's low point.^[3][61][127] IGN editor Colin Moriarty stated that while she began as an intelligent and strong female character, her games grew bland and Lara Croft became more like a "virtual blow-up doll".^[128] PlayStation Magazine reviewer Ryan Rayhill commented that the string of poor sequels relegated the character to a "gaming also-ran".^[111]

Crystal Dynamics' rendition of Croft in Legend garnered wide, though not universal, praise; many publications described the portrayal as a successful reboot. Game Informer named Lara Croft the number six top video game hero of 2006, citing the character's successful reprise in popularity, and named Legend one of the top 50 games of 2006.^[129] The magazine cited the character's alterations in Legend as the reason for her resurgent success.^[70][127] Chris Slate of PlayStation Magazine lauded the character changes in Legend, commenting that "Lara is finally back". He praised Eidos' decision to switch developers and Crystal Dynamics' contributions, especially the character's new gameplay manoeuvres and updated appearance.^[130] Dana Jongewaard of Official U.S. PlayStation Magazine disagreed, stating that Croft's outfit lacked sophistication and made her look like a 1990s "15-year old floozy".^[131] Fans expressed anger on internet forums at the switch from the braid.^[3] Schedeen and GamePro's Patrick Shaw felt that the makeover did not improve the character.^[120][132]

Let me know what you think. As I don't think my version is what should go in the article. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 04:19, 13 June 2011 (UTC))

I have to say I think my approach is much more readable; the inline attribution in the prose is very distracting to a reader. I can understand why you like to do it that way, but I think if good judgement is exercised by the article editors then a valid summary of the sources can be given and the sources themselves can be put in the footnotes. If you feel that the specific one to one attribution of opinions to sources has to be maintained, then the footnotes could give the explicit data -- that is, a cite to Game Informer is clearly enough if only one opinion and one source is being mentioned, but if the sentence is more general and combines comments from multiple sources you could break them out in the footnotes. I don't think that's necessary myself, though. I think the job of the editor is to process these sources and tell the reader, in direct prose, what can be reliably said about the topic. The sources must support the article but don't have to be visible in the prose. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:14, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps we could solicit a couple of other opinions, since we have two sets of example text above for people to look at? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:15, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

You have no argument from me that summary-style is more readable. However, I believe that WP:V comes into play here more than style guidelines. I'm also hesitant to summarize too much since I've gotten "caught" (for lack of a better word) using weasel words too often at past FACs, GANs, and peer reviews. In prose attribution (Person from Publication stated...) has solved this problem in my experiences. That being said, I realize that my approach makes my writing rather dry. I don't think either of our first proposals are best for the article, but I believe a happy medium exists. Perhaps if we each keep pulling the other from opposite directions, you from summary and me from attribution, we'll find that medium? Of course, the more input the better. So please do solicit opinions from where ever you think is best. I'll post at WT:VG. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 15:22, 20 June 2011 (UTC))

I've posted a request at an editor's talk page; they're not very active so I'll leave it a bit and if they don't respond I'll try someone else. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:16, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

I was asked by Mike Christie to comment on this discussion -- sorry for the delay. While I admittedly know very little about Lara Croft, my general rule of thumb while writing reception-style sections is to include attribution where notable, but cut it when it becomes obviously repetitive. "So-and-so said this, whereas such-and-such said that" not only quickly becomes tiresome after several reiterations, but it also tends to dilute important names/publications when they come up. Plus, assuming that the writer/publication will be listed in the accompanying citation, it's not like whomever says what will be completely left out. Reviewers often hit me with "who said this?" comments during reviews, which is an obvious concern where there is no attribution at all; however, that doesn't mean that such sections need to be saturated with such mentions, just for the sake of verifiability. The focus should always be the subject of the article (Lara Croft), not the reviewers themselves. Therefore, maybe a healthy compromise between the two proposed versions can be used? PlayStation Magazine seems notable enough, but rather than naming it 5+ times in the span of two paragraphs, try to cut it down to two? Perhaps cull the author names where less-notable, as well; there are so many names mentioned, it quickly becomes confusing and makes me question why these numerous individuals' opinions matter. Anyway, that's just my opinion. I hope it helps. :) María (habla conmigo) 13:55, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Maria. I agree with your take; my trouble is I don't know which sources are notable and which are less so. Guyinblack25, any comments? If you agree with Maria's approach, perhaps you could go through this section and identify which are the sources that a knowledgeable reader of the article would expect to see named in the text, per Maria's comments? Then we can work on a version that names those and puts the others sources in footnotes. Maria, would you be willing to give us some follow up comments if we come up with a consensus version? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:17, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Sure, I'll be watching the page. María (habla conmigo) 12:24, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the long delay. I've been playing catch up on Wikipedia things.

My concern with too much summary style, particularly with a reception section, is that these are primarily opinions and I worry that they'd be misconstrued as concrete facts.

In regard to the most relevant sources, that's very much debatable. The franchise was previously associated the most with Sony consoles (PS, PS2). However, it originated, and stayed close to for a while, on the home computer market. It has now consistently gone multi-platform. So I'd say anything PlayStation or multi-platform related (IGN, GameSpot, Game Informer, etc.) would be the best bets. But that is still a large pool to draw from.

Here's another draft that further summarizes the content

Lara Croft's introduction was widely regarded as an innovation in the video game market,^{[3][122][123][124]} with Rob Smith of PlayStation: The Official Magazine describing her as a video game icon of that generation of games.^[67] IGN credited a rise in PlayStation sales in part to Croft's debut on the system,^[7] and PlayStation Magazine attributed the first title's success to the character.^[125] Official U.S. PlayStation Magazine stated alternatively that Tomb Raider's PlayStation success propelled the character to prominence, making her a mascot for the system.^[126] PlayStation Magazine credits coverage in the Financial Times in 1997 as the starting point of the character's mainstream attention.^[84] As years progressed, Lara Croft's popularity declined due to a string of poorly received video game sequels.^[55][111] The Angel of Darkness is often cited as the character's low point.^[3][61][127] IGN editor Colin Moriarty stated that while she began as an intelligent and strong female character, her games grew bland and Lara Croft became more like a "virtual blow-up doll".^[128]

Crystal Dynamics' rendition of Croft in Legend garnered wide, though not universal, praise; many publications described the portrayal as a successful reboot. Game Informer named Lara Croft the number six top video game hero of 2006, citing the character's successful reprise in popularity.^[129] The magazine cited the character's alterations in Legend as the reason for her resurgent success.^[70][127] Chris Slate of PlayStation Magazine lauded the character changes in Legend, commenting that "Lara is finally back". He praised Eidos' decision to switch developers and Crystal Dynamics' contributions, especially the character's new gameplay manoeuvres and updated appearance.^[130] Others, like Schedeen and GamePro's Patrick Shaw, felt that the makeover did not improve the character.^{[120][131][132]} Fans also disapproved of the changes, especially the switch from the braid.^[3]

Let me know what you think. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 16:03, 29 July 2011 (UTC))

Edit notice for all Tomb Raider articles

The present page (n.r. Lara Croft article) has an edit notice like the one above but from the history of editing of all other Tomb Raider articles I think that such an edit notice is necessary.--TudorTulok (talk) 23:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

The games after Angel of Darkness are American developed, so those probably don't need it. But given the character's background and the series history as well as for the sake of consistency, this sounds reasonable. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 14:42, 26 January 2012 (UTC))

File:Lara-croft-fantasy.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Lara-croft-fantasy.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations What should I do? Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Commons Undeletion Request To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Lara-croft-fantasy.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 19:46, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Description update?

With the release of Tomb Raider, shouldn't Lara's history of adventure be updated in the Description section? The plot of that game is cited as Lara's very first adventure, not the supposed survival lesson from a plane crash in earlier games. 192.225.180.136 (talk) 06:01, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

I think the article needs to wait for the next release to get another serious revision. Then everybody will know much more stuffs about her and the enthusiasm will grow once again. Till then you could fix the minor problems by yourself, or let me know where it needs to be changed.--TudorTulok (talk) 22:30, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Not an archaeologist

Lara Croft is NOT an archaeologist, nor is there anything in this article to suggest she is one. Lara Croft is a Treasure-Hunter, and/or a Grave-Robber, and/or a Looter. As injurious as this may be to fans of the fictitious character, any or all of these terms should be substituted for 'archaeologist' in the preamble to this article. Etherdave (talk) 21:20, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

As an old fan of the series I agree with you, and I see now clearly that she is not a true archaeologist, she makes a mess everywhere she goes, but for our and her entertainment purposes :-p, but I believe you can't be a true archeologist when you have a horde of bad guys chasing you, first save your life, and then the tombs. In her biography it is stated like that, in most games she is called archaeologist. It's a good idea writing like this on the main page: despite being called an archaeologist in each game, including her biography, regarding her studies, her real activity is Treasure-Hunter, and a Grave-Robber.TudorTulok (talk) 00:55, 6 April 2015 (UTC)