Talk:Lana Turner/Archive 1

Archive 1

Gay Icon Project

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 22:18, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hollywood High - relationship with Joseph Wapner

My mother knew Lana Turner at Hollywood High School. I saw Joseph Wapner's name in her 1935 Poinsettia (yearbook) and when I Googled for their names, I found several sites that mentioned them to have been boyfriend/girlfriend, including the one I chose for the reference.

Greg 00:59, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Syphilis

The rumor that Howard Hughes gave her syphilis - even if nothing but a rumor - is too grave to be repeated without solid citation of source. I have removed it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.249.96.149 (talk • contribs) 18:27, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

In Nina Simone's classic song "My Baby Just Cares for Me", it states, "Liz Taylor is not his style And even Lana Turner's smile Something he can't see My baby don't care who knows it My baby just cares for me" Rakash Singh September 24,2007

Hair color

What was Lana Turner's natural hair color? (In Dancing Co-Ed her character is referred to as a redhead.) Robert K S (talk) 06:43, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Fair use issue

Someone sometime (I'm not sure when/who) added this comment to the article:

NOTE TO EDITORS: Do not replace Image:Lana Turner in The Postman Always Rings Twice trailer.jpg with any fair use images. Any fair use photos (i.e. promotional photos) are copyright violations and will be deleted. Also see http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:Fair use criteria

I've just removed it as:

1. "Fair use photos" are not necessarily "copyright violations". See Wikipedia:Copyrights#Image guidelines: "In some cases, fair use guidelines may allow an image to be used irrespective of any copyright claims."
2. Wikipedia:Fair use criteria is just a redirect link, which bounces to Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria. (And why is it a full URL anyway?)

--Jeremy Butler 13:10, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Birth year

Some sources state 1920, others 1921. There is no ref for her birth year on this article; can someone provide one? Nietzsche 2 (talk) 06:01, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

So the thieves removed his shoe, then took of the dead man's sock in order to steal the money inside it...?

It says in the article that Lana Turner's father won some money which he put in his left sock. Then it goes on to say, "He was later found dead... his left sock missing." Does that mean that the thief removed the dead man's shoe, then his sock, to get at the money? Seems unlikely to me. Maybe it means that her father took his own shoe off, then his left sock, then put his shoe back on, and used the removed sock to put his money in. Maybe all the thief had to do was pull the left sock out of the dead man's pocket, with the money in it.

This all sounds so unlikely. How does nonsense like this become part of the story, even if it is in some record somewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.187.233.172 (talk) 11:58, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

It's reported in two printed sources, including the Wayne book referred to a sentence or so later. I don't know why a robber would have wanted to remove and destroy evidence -- fingerprints? Anyway, the criterion for Wikipedia is "verifiability not truth" so I've added the references. Kenilworth Terrace (talk) 15:48, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

So Where Did Turner REALLY grow up??

My mother, who was born a year before Turner (1920) in San Francisco, maintained she and Turner were school mates at George Washington High School in San Francisco in the outer Richmond District. This calls into question both the statement that she went to Hollywood High and that her father was killed in the Potrero District, which is considerably distant from Washington High School. In fact, my father, who grew up on Potrero Hill, went to Mission High School, which served student living in the Potrero. Records at Washington High School and/or Hollywood High School, might confirm one or the other school as the one she attended. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.210.2.244 (talk • contribs) 01:11, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

The article describes her father dying when she was young and her moving to LA when she was 10. That explains how her dad could have been found dead in Dogpatch without her having attended a SF high school. Your mother might be remembering a different celebrity who attended GW High in the late 30s. I'm not sure how your father's high school or home neighborhood help with this.

Pending specific citations that Turner also lived in San Francisco as a teen, I think we should leave both articles alone. 75.37.16.224 (talk) 09:37, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Birth name

Julia Jean Mildred Frances Turner or Julia Jean Turner?

Julia Jean Mildred Frances Turner

• Britannica [1] (though it says FrancIs).
• [www.cmgww.com/stars/turner/biography.htm The Official Lana Turner Web Site]
• NY Times obit
• The New Biographical Dictionary of Film Fifth Edition
• Life - 23 December 1940 - Page 63
• Who's who at Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer., 1944, Page 28

etc. etc.

Julia Jean Turner

• Turner's autobiography says her birth certificate says....

Does anything else specifically exclude "Mildred Francis"?

All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 00:38, 18 June 2015 (UTC).
Cfdc49 (talk) 06:15, 18 June 2015 (UTC) About the Mildred Frances addition. First, I am a cousin to Lana Turner. In her paperback edition, page 14, there is an explanation. She went to a Catholic church in Stockton with a family named Hislops. She indicated "The ritual thrilled me so that, I wanted to convert, and my mother agreed. I had originally been christened Julia Jean and now I needed some saints' names. I chose Frances-actually Mildred Frances-after my mother." Anybody wants to add that, be my guest. Wikipedia is becoming too difficult for me to enter stuff - and apologize now to Rich Farmbrough if I've stepped on your space. Cfdc49 (talk) 06:15, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

I don't have a "space" - well I try not to! All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 14:02, 18 June 2015 (UTC).

 Done - I have assumed that the paperpack edition you refer to is the same one I found details for. If not please correct the details. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 14:13, 18 June 2015 (UTC).

• ngrams All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 00:44, 18 June 2015 (UTC).
  

Anatomy of a Murder

It might be mentioned that Lana was cast in "Anatomy of a Murder" but walked off the set because she and the director, Otto Preminger, fought over costumes. 50.202.81.2 (talk) 21:09, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Lana Turner/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: JohnWickTwo (talk · contribs) 18:40, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Ready to initiate a review of this article for assessment which may take a few days. In the meantime, possibly you could comment on the reasons which may have brought you to edit this article in particular, and to mention what were the most active areas of improvement which your editing needed to address in order to bring the article to its current state of development. JohnWickTwo (talk) 18:40, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

@Drown Soda: Let me know when you are available to start the assessment process. I'll need some time to type in the review notes for your response. JohnWickTwo (talk) 11:44, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

@JohnWickTwo:, I'm available to do some work whenever you have the time. Thank you! --Drown Soda (talk) 18:45, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

• Lead section

The lead section contains some citations, footnotes, which are unexpected. Normally, for peer review articles, the main body of the article is the place to develop all of the material in the article and then to summarize it concisely in the lead section. If the lead section is a summary of the material and citations already developed in the article then there should not be a need for citations in the lead section. Are those citations already in the main body or can they be developed in the main body in order that they would not be needed in the lead section. Second point in lead section is that the reference to her illness sometimes calls it throat cancer and sometimes esoph. cancer in the article. Should it be consistent?

• 1 Early life

Appears adequate for material being discussed.

• 2 Career
• 2.1 1937–1939: Establishment

Comment on opening sentence in this section. If there has been a tendency to exaggerate her 'discovery' then this can be stated more directly and perhaps with an example or two of any 'false' myth-making. The section otherwise is written well and sticks to the facts with citations.

• 2.2 1940–1947: Rise and commercial success

Postman was Cain's debut novel, his first one. Is this worth mentioning in the article or in this section? Not to over-emphasize, though her reputation is firmly linked in film noir studies as being there at the start of this notable film genre with one of the genre's most noted films. Another biographical point is that she met Howard Hughes during these years who was himself active promoting films during his lifetime; did Hughes ever help her career or get her a part? Hughes is not mentioned in the article either professionally or for her personal life.

• 2.3 1948–1960: Critical success

The phrase you use, "During the 1950s, Turner starred in a series of films that failed at the box office", does not seem consistent with this section's title. If they "failed" then that's not very successful. Possible tweaking the title might do it, or maybe simply state that the years of critical success had passing set-backs as well.

• 2.4 1961–1985: Later roles and television

Of the 4 short paragraphs in this section, paragraphs number 2 and 3 might be combined together to enhance the paragraph structure of this section.

• 3 Personal life

The medical history has many dire episodes which likely received hospital attention and required non-trivial periods of time for recovery. Pregnancy termination was also illicit back then and there is the question of where they were done. Is there any information on these points? Also, was she admitted to hospital for any of her mental health issues, suicide attempt, depression, ...?

• 3.1 Relationships

Looks adequately covered with references. No mention of Howard Hughes.

• 3.2 The Stompanato killing

This may have been a controversy at the time it happened, though she came out exonerated and I'm not sure it had a lasting impact on her reputation. Is it worth stating something like this in this section: "Although the tragedy was controversial at the time, she was exonerated of any wrong-doing," or your adapted version of this type of wording.

• 4 Death

Esophageal cancer is the preferred reference to this and should be consistent throughout the article and in the lead section.

• 5 In culture

Some mention of her being closely tied to film noir studies as a whole because of her pivotal role in the Cain adaptation. Some of the very short paragraphs at the end of this section can be merged as not needing separate paragraphs.

• 6 Filmography

Appears comprehensive.

• 6.1 Film
• 6.2 Television
• 7 Radio appearances

Appears comprehensive.

@Drown Soda: This should be able to get things started. Let me know if any point needs clarification. JohnWickTwo (talk) 20:47, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

@JohnWickTwo:, thanks for the input. I have addressed most all of the points you've raised here; the distinction between the "Critical success" section title and the mention box office failures reads a bit misleading, so I reworded it slightly. Critical success doesn't necessarily equate with box office success, but I can see how it may mislead. I also have noted your recommendation of including her associations with film noir. I've added two scholarly sources that mention this, as she is frequently associated with noir and the femme fatale's appearance in cinema (along with women like Barbara Stanwyck, Veronica Lake, etc). Let me know if you have other concerns. Best, Drown Soda (talk) 00:53, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

@Drown Soda: That was pretty quick turn around. (a) Turning to the references, I have noticed that some of the citation access dates have not been updated since as far back as 2010, and all the older ones should have the access dates updated. The deadurl link notifications in this article also need to be updated throughout the article, for example in the Stompanato section where one of the archive links is simply duplicated as its primary link as well. This reference and similar ones needs to be updated, especially if there is no backup archive link, etc. (b) If you and I are agreed that the Stompanato incident ended with Lana being fully and completely exonerated, then it seems to be unneeded in the lead section, and I think it can be dropped as that very long first sentence in the fourth paragraph of the lead section since its comprehensively covered in the main body of the article. (c) To recap my assessment above from yesterday after your edits, then it appears you are comfortable leaving out the Howard Hughes 1946 tie-in with her. I ask this since there is a large literature of books about Howard Hughes which mention Lana in 1946, even though his Hollywood 'affairs' mostly concentrate on Ava Gardner, and also Katherine Hepburn. (d) On the next part of the assessment, any further information on her terminated pregnancies (done in USA or abroad question, for example) and her mental health issues (was she hospitalized, where was she hospitalized, for how long) appear not to be augmented from the original form of the article which was presented for assessment here. (e) The images throughout the article and their captions appear to be fine, though the final image from the last section includes an unexpected 1941 image of her in the last section of the article. Possibly alter the caption to indicate why it is included in the Legacy section which you are calling "In culture". Its possible you can use the image on the poster art at Trucks (film) of Bakke who portrayed Lana in the film LA Confidential as a Legacy image. As just a consideration, though you might think about retitling the last section as "Legacy" if that's what is described there. JohnWickTwo (talk) 03:23, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

@Drown Soda: Week-end note: With the week-end coming up I was wondering if you would be putting any time into the edits on Saturday or Sunday. Once the reference access dates are updated, it looks like the article may be in fairly good shape. Let me know what your immediate plans might be for your approach to the enhancements and possible time frame for this assessment. JohnWickTwo (talk) 00:40, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

@JohnWickTwo:: I'm about to go through and address the reference access dates and URLs, and will also bring in your mention of Hughes—I personally wasn't aware of the tie. As far as her pregnancies were concerned, her revelations concerning them in her autobiography are vague. I can re-examine those passages, but she doesn't provide much detail; the same goes for her suicide attempt: She mentions her depression but the parameters of it are also vague. I will try and get through these edits tonight. Best, Drown Soda (talk) 01:09, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

@JohnWickTwo:: I believe I have addressed the concerns above; however, I was unable to locate the doubled archive URL you mentioned in the Stompanato section—could you point out which one? --Drown Soda (talk) 01:54, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Closing comments

That last set of edit I think does what was needed and the article gets a positive GA assessment. The url you ask about is just before the Stompanato section, currently #88, which has a good primary link though the archive link is not working and is marked that way when you look it up. Since the primary link from that cite is working, I am giving the article a promotion to GA peer assessment, and you can address the archive backup message when you sign on. The article is well-written, properly researched, with good images and captions, and could possibly be developed further towards an FA. Two ideas to look at for further enhancement would be to possibly go further in the film noir material and her reputation there; how did she compare to the other noir sirens like Barbara Stanwyck and Lauren Bacall, both in her own time and in retrospect. The relationship with her co-star in Postman might be researched further for an FA article, to deal with their relationship during the shooting, the immediate critics responses to them as co-stars, and whether they ever got together after the film was completed, either socially or for other possible project considerations. Otherwise, the article checks all the boxes for GA assessment, including your choice of images and captions. Cheers. JohnWickTwo (talk) 04:29, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Newspapers.com as "open access"?

Several citations in this article tag newspapers.com as "open access." However, the site is only open access insofar as it offers a free trial before you have to subscribe. Should these open access tags be changed to a paywall tag? --Jeremy Butler (talk) 12:17, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

@Jeremy Butler: It seems tagging Newspapers.com citations as open access is fairly standard as it has appeared in numerous other articles, so I formatted it that way. You are correct about the free trial, though the text of the newspaper page is available to read in OCR format, which is not always entirely accurate--but it's there. I'm curious as to whether or not there is an official consensus on this and whether or not the availability of the OCR qualifies it as an open access link. In any event, the newspaper citations themselves are stand alone, whether retrieved from Newspapers.com or the physical paper itself. --Drown Soda (talk) 09:54, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

@Drown Soda: Right you are! After picking up on the Newspapers.com "open access" tag here, I started noticing it in other articles, too. It's weird, because, as you say, the only text available for free is the OCR and that can be dicey. I hate it when a Google search lists Newspapers.com results as I know they'll be marginally helpful. Usually, I don't even bother trying to read them. How can we track down consensus on this, if it exists? Oh, and you're also right about the citations standing on their own. I just wish there were another online source besides Newspapers.com. --Jeremy Butler (talk) 11:42, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

@Drown Soda: I found more info about Newspapers.com on this Wikipedia article about signing up for a free subscription. Apparently, there is a "clipping" function on Newspapers.com that makes an article available for open access (see below). Perhaps only links to articles that have been "clipped" should be tagged "open access"? --Jeremy Butler (talk) 12:01, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Using the "Clipping" function: "Both Newspapers.com and The Wikipedia Library would prefer that articles citing Newspapers.com link to clippings. Clippings allow Newspapers.com subscriber-editors to identify particular articles, extract them from the original full sheet newspaper and share them through unique URLs. Thus readers who click on a Newspapers.com Clipping link will be able to access that particular article, and the full page of the paper if they come from the clipping, without needing to subscribe to Newspapers.com. Clippings can be deleted by the user who created the clipping, but otherwise remain permanently open access, even when user accounts expire. For more information about how to use clippings, follow this link."

@Drown Soda: I found an example of a "clipped" article. Would you agree that citations of Newspaper.com articles that have not been "clipped" should have their "open access" tag removed? --Jeremy Butler (talk) 12:15, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

@Jeremy Butler: this is interesting; I agree that it would make most sense to apply open access tags to clipped articles. I currently have a subscription to Newspapers.com but have yet to discover/use this feature. I will look more into it and see if I can clip the articles cited to make them all available in their original (non-OCR) form. --Drown Soda (talk) 12:30, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

@Jeremy Butler: I have just used the clip feature for the first time; it was under my nose and is very easy to use. I will start clipping the newspaper sources here so they can be read by readers without Newspaper.com subscriptions--the feature that allows them to view the entire page when linked to a clipping is something I did not know about. --Drown Soda (talk) 20:30, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

@Drown Soda: Excellent! That is really the best solution--to cite open-access clipped articles. --Jeremy Butler (talk) 21:06, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Tom and Jerry

Is it true that Tom and Jerry's white cats were based on her? 14.221.119.189 (talk) 16:18, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

Attempting to prepare for FA review

I've worked on this article for a year or so now consistently, and am hoping to get it to featured status. I am wondering if any editors here would provide any feedback before I attempt another FA review submission. I feel it is in solid shape, despite some comments made by unregistered users; i.e. a 9 February edit summary from 69.180.234.7 (talk · contribs) stating:

Too many grammatical, writing and style errors to elaborate. These articles should really be edited by professional writers before they are published. Instead, we now have a bottomless pit of poorly written articles that are the butts of jokes.

This same editor deleted the inflation modules on some monetary information in the article, summarizing: "Do not reference the value of something from previous years in more recent years; in this case, 2018. People will still be reading this article in many years to come and that reference itself will be outdated. If a person is interested in knowing the current value of something from years ago, they can research that information easily in their current day, whenever that is." I find this absurd given that these modules self-generate the inflation based on current data, and are updated each year; this leads me to believe the editor is unfamiliar with Wikipedia, but perhaps I'm wrong. Their comments have me second-guessing if the article is really in as bad of shape as they seem to think it is, and would like other opinions before I try and move it further along. --Drown Soda (talk) 10:14, 16 May 2019 (UTC)