Talk:Laguna Honda Hospital

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 17:13, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

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The main hospital building

• ... that Laguna Honda Hospital (pictured) is one of the last remaining large non-profit publicly funded long-term care facilities in the United States? Source: https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/bayarea/heatherknight/article/laguna-honda-patient-transfer-crash-feds-17346993.php Search in the source for "almshouse" to find the relevant sentence.
  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: I apologize that this is three days late. Is there a chance I may nominate it anyway? I've never written an article from scratch before, and I only just remembered that there is a time limit since I've been busy in real life.

Created by Leijurv (talk). Self-nominated at 08:26, 12 January 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Laguna Honda Hospital; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Yeah, that's fine Leijurv, however, the hook says it is "one of the last" such hospitals and the article says it is the last, period, which is it? Gatoclass (talk) 13:40, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

@Gatoclass: The exact phrase in the source is is believed to be the country’s last big almshouse. I'm of course willing to rephrase either/both. From all my research, I think it is the last. However, that depends on how you define "large" or "big". So I hedged it by saying "one of the last". I believe that the hook as written is supported by the source. Leijurv (talk) 19:54, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

@Leijurv:, now I'm more confused, because "last big almshouse" is not the same thing as "last remaining large non-profit publicly funded long-term care facility". How did you derive the latter from the former exactly? Gatoclass (talk) 12:05, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

@Gatoclass: I apologize, I was trying to abbreviate and save time, but I can clearly see that I was being silly and I've actually wasted your time. Sorry. I cut off the whole paragraph from this source, which reads: Laguna Honda, which opened 156 years ago, is believed to be the country’s last big almshouse, a nonprofit nursing home run by the county to provide long-term medical care for the very poor, the very sick and the very disabled. Unlike most hospitals that aspire to move patients out as quickly as possible, Laguna Honda operates slowly and with great care. This is where all of those qualifiers of "large", "non-profit", "long-term", "care facility" (from "nursing home to provide care"), and "publicly funded" from it being ran by the county, and other sources confirm this too such as this one which says Medi-Cal is the big one, accounting for most of the nursing home’s funding, and at least 95% of Laguna Honda’s 500 frail residents rely on it. Medi-Cal is California’s version of Medicaid. Leijurv (talk) 05:11, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

@Gatoclass: Does the above resolve your concerns, and thus this is approved? If not, what else needs to be done? Z1720 (talk) 20:02, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

No Z1720, it doesn't resolve my concerns at all, in fact I didn't really understand the point Leijurv was trying to make. But his apparent assumption that "last big almshouse" somehow means "last remaining large non-profit publicly funded long-term care" facility sounds like original research to me. So I really don't know what to do with this nom. Maybe it just needs a new hook. Gatoclass (talk) 03:45, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

@Gatoclass: Huh? You questioned how I "derived the latter from the former" so I pasted the entire source, which says "last big almshouse (comma) a nonprofit nursing home blah blah long term medical care". I read that as "Laguna Honda is the last big almshouse, [which means a] nonprofit nursing blah blah.". How is it original research for me to say that Laguna Honda is the last remaining non-profit blah blah? Isn't that just what the comma after "almshouse" implies? It's not an "apparent assumption", please click this link and ctrl+f for almshouse and you'll see it. Not sure what I could have done differently here, I pasted the entire source into my last reply.

I'm not sure if it's too long to be a copyright violation, but can the hook instead just be the literal phrasing exactly copied from the source? Like: ALT1 ... that Laguna Honda Hospital is believed to be the country's last big almshouse, a nonprofit nursing home run by the county to provide long-term medical care? Leijurv (talk) 07:14, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Leijurv, no you couldn't just run the exact same quote because that would be a copyright violation. And I don't accept that "non-profit publicly funded long-term care [facility]" is the same as "nonprofit nursing home run ... to provide long-term medical care for the very poor, the very sick and the very disabled" - because not all of the former would necessarily be for "the very poor, the very sick and the very disabled." Gatoclass (talk) 11:38, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

@Gatoclass: So it needs to mention that it's only for the poor, sick, and disabled? ALT2 ... that Laguna Honda Hospital (pictured) is one of the last remaining large non-profit publicly funded long-term medical facilities in the United States that cares for the the sick, poor, and disabled? Leijurv (talk) 20:23, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

That won't work either I'm afraid Leijurv. Here's an alt that I think should work:

• ALT3: ... that San Francisco's Laguna Honda Hospital (pictured) is a non-profit longterm care facility that has been described as America's "last big almshouse"?

- Of course, you would have to add the relevant content to the article. Gatoclass (talk) 04:47, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

@Gatoclass: Okay, added in this diff. ALT3 sounds good to me! Leijurv (talk) 19:32, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Leijurv, I'm sorry, but your edit did not address my concerns, so I've edited the article myself to fix the problem. Please let me know if you are happy with the edit; if not, this will have to go to WT:DYK for wider input. Gatoclass (talk) 20:53, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

@Gatoclass: Your edits one and two are acceptable and accurate to the source. To be clear I do not agree that it must be written that exact way, I think that the sentence "almshouse, a nonprofit nursing home" is easily read as saying "it's the last almshouse, or in other words the last nonprofit nursing home" (since the reader may not be familiar with the word "almshouse" the author defined it in the next phrase). But it's fine the way you have it written, we'll leave it like that. So, with that, is ALT3 approved? Leijurv (talk) 22:15, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

• @Gatoclass and Leijurv:I assume we are observing IAR for the qualifying aspects? Long enough - but Converted from a redirect on January 4, and not nominated until January 12. Alt3 is interesting and confirmed by a citation in the article. Good that we linked almshouse because it is a word that is not in the vernacular. I spot checked many of the citations, added categories and moved the secondary image to the right. I also archived the paywalled links. Earwig does not alert to clop or plagiarism. Bruxton (talk) 03:33, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

I assume we are observing IAR for the qualifying aspects? Yes please, hopefully :) Above I wrote I apologize that this is three days late and Gatoclass said Yeah, that's fine

Thank you so much for the verification! Leijurv (talk) 07:29, 2 February 2024 (UTC)