Talk:L'Amant double

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Incorrect capitalisation

"L'Amant double" is how the French capitalise it, not that we should use the French way on English Wikipedia, anyway. Why this has been twice moved to "L'amant double" is bewildering. Also, my 1RR expired, Lugnuts, but good memory. — Film Fan 13:48, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong again, it has not expired. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 13:55, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It expired months ago at my request. Anyway, see above re the title of the film. Your double standards when it comes to editing are hilarious. Your revert a move saying it's undiscussed, but if I do exactly the same, you just revert back again. Is that something you get to do just because you spend your whole life on Wikipedia? — Film Fan 14:18, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 14 May 2017

This discussion was listed at Wikipedia:Move review on 17 June 2017. The result of the move review was endorse.

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) —Guan aco 07:54, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

L'amant double → Amant Double – Per WP:NCF, the title used in the English-speaking world should be used. This film is premiering at Cannes and the title for the English-speaking audience at Cannes is Amant Double.[1][2][3] I should note this title has only just been added, so any sources previous to the last couple of days won't have it. Also, the current capitalization is incorrect anyway. "L'amant" should be "L'Amant". Lugnuts reverts simply because he dislikes me. — Film Fan 14:02, 14 May 2017 (UTC)--Relisting. TonyBallioni (talk) 00:40, 27 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Festival title, needs to wait until it's released outside Cannes for further consideration. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 19:55, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- No it doesn't. You don't apply that logic to any other titles. You're only opposing because I'm requesting. — Film Fan 20:13, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No, I'm not. Please stop with your constant personal attacks and edit warring. Continue, and you'll be blocked again. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 10:46, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes you are, and no I will not. Do you know what hypocrisy is? — Film Fan 12:14, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I do - it's what you do on a regular basis along with your usual disruption. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 12:15, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hilarious. — Film Fan 12:19, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Didn't deny it. Speaks volumes. As does your BS about your 1RR being expired. I look forward to more of your trolling. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 12:21, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that you enjoy this childish conflict speaks volumes. Try making it about the content instead of the editor. I know that's way too much to ask. — Film Fan 12:54, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Again, no evidence of your bullshit 1RR expiring. "Try making it about the content instead of the editor" - which is what you're not doing here. Oh dear. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 13:08, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely. — Film Fan 13:19, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support, or restore to the article's original title of L'Amant Double - the bickering above notwithstanding, the rationale seems sound. English sources do seem to give it the English name "Amant Double"[4], or sometimes "L'Amant Double"[5] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amakuru (talk • contribs) 17:43, 22 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. The current capitalization is bewildering. — Film Fan 18:03, 30 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Lugnuts. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:01, 8 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Genealogizer (talk) 20:54, 8 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support. L'amant double is an unsustainable title. In the English-speaking world there are three possible forms — L'Amant double (the original French title), Amant Double (the form presented to the English-speaking audience at Cannes) and The Double Lover (the form described by IMDb as "informal literal title"). A tentative fourth possibility may be any other title that distributors could decide to use in marketing this feature withn the English-speaking world. For the purpose of the current !vote, however, it would seem that the title selected at Cannes for English speakers would be the most apt choice. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 04:13, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Why? We frequently capitalize French book and film titles as correct in French. This is part of the language. Franglish capitalization isn't used in quality book sources for films. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:45, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The capitalization used in L'amant double is neither proper French nor Franglish of whatever variety. As it stands, without a specific explanation of the methodology used in formulating Amant Double as the English form used at Cannes, we are obliged to accept the title as presented by the film's marketers, distributors and English-language reviewers. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 06:12, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Of course it is correct French. See fr.wp In ictu oculi (talk) 08:32, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

French Wikipedia does not capitalize it L'amant double, because French Wikipedia is not stupid. — Film Fan 11:19, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

English-language sources are inconsistent. Variety uses L'amant double, while The Hollywood Reporter as well as The Guardian use L'Amant double. Ultimately, however, one has to trust French sources for the correct French form. In addition to French Wikipedia, such key publications as Télérama, Le Monde and Paris Match use L'Amant double in their headers. As far as the film's title in the English-speaking world is concerned, there are various references to the nominated form, Amant Double in Variety, Screen Daily and Films Distribution or even to the literal form The Double Lover at Letterboxd or Cineuropa. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 14:31, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well obviously it should be L'Amant double I thought that's what we were talking about. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:04, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well, no, that's not obvious at all. — Film Fan 08:07, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

My reasoning in closing the move discussion

@Film Fan: My choice of move target was made in two steps:

L'amant double → L'Amant double: move per consensus and to correct a fairly obvious error. One thing was agreed on in the discussion: "L'amant" is wrong. "L'Amant double" was the original title for this article and the correct French name.
L'Amant double → Amant Double: no consensus. Lugnuts made a strong argument that it may be too soon to move this to a proposed English title, and some of those who supported some move were effectively neutral between the two.

Ultimately, whether it's an admin or some other user making the move, if there's any disagreement someone will be unhappy. I stand by my decision to close the discussion, and I'm going to revert to re-close. If you feel I'm wrong in doing so, you can make a case at Wikipedia:Move review. —Guan aco 08:29, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'll also note that this was previously relisted and was over a month old. If this were not the case, I'd have relisted it. —Guan aco 08:33, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The most support is for Amant Double, then L'Amant Double, and THEN L'Amant double. This is an incorrect closure. — Film Fan 08:39, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that it's not the outcome you wanted, and I freely admit I didn't count votes. I did do a thorough reading of the comments, checked outside references, and made a judgment call. I'm sorry, but this isn't a voting procedure; it's a discussion, and after over a month it had become stale. —Guan aco 09:07, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It had, but you still went against consensus. — Film Fan 09:09, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think we'll get anywhere like this. Let's open a move review. —Guan aco 09:18, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 5 December 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by page mover) GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 01:14, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

L'Amant double → The Double Lover – Per WP:NCF and WP:USEENGLISH. There was a bit of scuffle over this in May, if Amant Double would be the common English name, and no consensus there was a common English name at the time. Now it appears there is one. with 311 Google News hits [6] [7] [8] Ribbet32 (talk) 22:30, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose. It is nothing but a literal translation. You'll notice in the vast majority of those hits that the English translation is offered in brackets, after either "L'Amant Double" (by far the WP:COMMONNAME at this point) or "Amant Double" (the official title). — Film Fan 23:17, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support per well-sourced nomination. Clearly, this film has been marketed, distributed and reviewed in the English-speaking world under its English-language title. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 23:34, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- No, it really hasn't. How did you come to that conclusion? — Film Fan 23:55, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - I'm guessing because Roman Spinner clicked on the links. Ribbet32 (talk) 00:13, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    - Three links vs the rest of the internet. — Film Fan 00:19, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Move to Amant Double, which clearly is the official international English title,[9][10][11] if moving at all. If there's anything that holds us back, it is that the UK title is L'Amant Double and the US title hasn't yet been revealed.[12][13] ~~If the US title also turned out to be L'Amant Double, move to L'Amant Double.~~ Nardog (talk) 00:06, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- All of those sources are from May. Was not in release in the English speaking world then. Recent sources use The Double Lover. Ribbet32 (talk) 00:13, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - No they don't. And please tell me where it has been released in the English-speaking world. — Film Fan 00:19, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - Nardog, sorry WP:FRMOS applies. No capitals on French adjectives in titles. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:04, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    - Ah, actually you're right. At first I thought it would have to be at L'Amant Double because it's an English title using French words, but in this case it matches the original French title so the title should be regarded simply as a French movie that happens to be known as the French name in the English-speaking sphere. (So C'est la vie! (film) should be at C'Est la Vie! (film). Otherwise it doesn't make sense it's not at C'est la vie ! (film), with an additional space.) Nardog (talk) 10:58, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose DVD retailing on Amazon under French title. The proposed English title pulls up nothing. Cannot see any sign this film has been released in English speaking world other than with the French title https://www.curzoncinemas.com/film-info/lamant-double. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:03, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.