Talk:Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord

Military history: European / German / World War I

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	European military history task force
	German military history task force
	World War I task force

Germany Low‑importance

	Germany portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Biography: Military

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Mid-importance).

Source of the "four types of officer" quote

I've been trying to find an authoritative source for the "four types of officers" quote, and I can't satisfy myself one exists. Here's what I've found:

This quote (in English) is attributed to Rommel, von Moltke the elder (see next point for link), and von Clausewitz.
The only version in german I can find is attributed to von Moltke: I can't find a direct link, but go to this page and put the two words "faul" and "dumm" into the "oder nach Textstellen" field, hit "Suche starten" and it's the first result.
There appears to be an authoritative source in the english translation of Truppenfuehrung, but I don't have the book.

Echion2 22:21, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

you mean the four types of officers whom he would employ? i was looking at the text of that quote recently. i'm almost certain that it can be attributed k. von h-e. or to col. v.spon. i will take a look and get back to you on this. as i recall, there is no direct reference in Truppenfuhrung (excuse lack of umlaut). i was co-author/editor of the english translation. best wishes, bruce condellbruce (talk) 17:23, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This quote is attributed to von Hammerstein-Equord also in The Oxford Dictionary of Phrase, Saying and Quotation, 2nd ed (2002) on p. 27 with the rejoinder that it's possibly apocryphal. It is dated to c. 1933. 91.153.115.90 (talk) 09:49, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm also trying to track down the original source: Wiki projects that mention the quote include:

wikiquote:Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord - attributes it to the same Condell/Zabecki book that we do here.
de:Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord#Charakter und politische Einstellung - states it was in this book Hammerstein oder Der Eigensinn (by Hans Magnus Enzensberger) which amazon let's us search inside (for "faul") - the quote does appear on page 77–78 - but I can't decipher the context (1 semester of highschool German doesn't get me very far...). Can anyone help?
de:Hanlon’s Razor points to the same Enzensberger book, but the footnote seems to suggest it was something to do with Talleyrand? Again, I'm not sure what exactly it is saying. (however the word "talleyrand" isn't findable in the Enzensberger book (at amazon at least)).

Possibly that will helps someone find the origin... ? -- Quiddity (talk) 23:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yup, that book clearly attributes the quote to K-vHE. Thanks for the citation! A friend has ordered the English translation and we'll see what it says. Echion2 (talk) 07:52, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The English translation book came to my friend and it clearly attributes the quote (with virtually identical English translation) to von Hammerstein-Equord on page 86. I'm going to make the appropriate edits. Echion2 (talk) 10:24, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have made the edits. Echion2 (talk) 10:34, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The first footnote

The first footnote seems quite obvious and imho doesn´t fit into a well-developped encyclopedia entry, does it? Let's try not to treat the readers as if they were a bunch of morons... I'd suggest getting rid of it. If you find it absolutely crucial to explain the notion of "Freiherr", let's just make it a link to a proper article, shall we? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.55.28.74 (talk) 01:44, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Iz der very gut artikel text

A few random examples of weird prose here:

"General von Witzleben demanded together with the generals Wilhelm von Leeb and Gerd von Rundstedt at General Fritsch, now Chief Command..."

"In a closed meeting of the peaks of government, party and Reichswehr to another topic Hitler said "studies"..."

"...relieved of his command on personal orders by Hitler..."

"...Prof. Dr. Ferdinand Sauerbruch, an esteemed surgeon..."

"After the reports of his children Hammerstein reported during the meals about forthcoming actions against Jewish and other persecuted people, so those could be warned by his children."

"First he was a member of the Reichstag (KPD), organizer and redactor."

"He turned away from the KPD, was mostly arrested since 1933 and was shot 1940 in the KZ Buchenwald."

"She made the connections to agent Gert Caden to the KPD." 94.191.143.218 (talk) 19:11, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Those, and others, likely are from translation and beside weird prose occasionally result in factual error. Just overhauled the article and hopefully got all of them. ...GELongstreet (talk) 18:27, 21 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]