Talk:Kingdom of Tavolara

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Italy

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Was this ever a recognised State?

I somehow doubt it. What was it's status before 1863? The article is unclear about that. On whose authority are we supposed to believe that Kings of Sardinia and later Italy signed treaties with this country. This seems like a micronation to me, and it is mentioned that is was. It also says "unrecognized state" in the infobox and I believe the article should reflect that.Gerard von Hebel (talk) 22:22, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Considering that no one had any reason to care for it besides Italy, I'm pretty sure the Italians were the only ones who recognized the "Kingdom," if only because there wasn't much of a reason to not do so, since I'm sure it operated more like a de facto protectorate anyway. --Mrdie (talk) 15:00, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm slightly worried about the fact that the only references to an official recognition of this Kingdom by Sardinia / Italy seem to be newspaper clippings and a book of lists. I've added a tag and requests for additional sources. When this Kingdom is / was only a micronation (as the box above the talkpage seems to suggest) this should be made clear in the article. Otherwise it could be misleading.Gerard von Hebel (talk) 20:11, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I dispute the accuracy of this article. This was never an independent state, Just a fantasy Kingdom, Gerard von Hebel (talk) 20:13, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And what are the sources for your claim that it was "a fantasy Kingdom"? Jeppiz (talk) 21:31, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What a remarkable question.. How to prove a negative. One would gather that the existence of a recognized independent state would somehow leave more traces that this one did. There do not seem to be any diplomatic documents around involving this country.Gerard von Hebel (talk) 22:03, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This wiki article (http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Bertoleoni) seems to describe the probkematic sides to this article somewhat better perhaps...Gerard von Hebel (talk) 22:16, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's not about proving a negative, it's about trying to get some basis for your questioning the sources listed in the article. Of course they may all be wrong, but to argue that they are, a better argument would be needed.Jeppiz (talk) 08:57, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think this article is questionable under WP:EXEPTIONAL

"Any exceptional claim requires multiple high-quality sources.[8] Red flags that should prompt extra caution include: surprising or apparently important claims not covered by multiple mainstream sources; challenged claims that are supported purely by primary or self-published sources or those with an apparent conflict of interest;[5]"Gerard von Hebel (talk) 18:29, 21 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I changed the intro to read "a small state claiming independence." The Kingdom was not widely recognised, though there are claims it was recognised first by the Kingdom of Sardinia and later by the Kingdom of Italy, and at least acknowledged by Queen Victoria. I removed a few of the "dubious" tags: 1) There is no doubt that the New York Times described a republican government in 1896; but 2) I think it is safe to say that these reports were erroneous. Meissner visited and spoke with family members in the 1950s and reported in his book (1959 German, 1963 English): "Obituaries were written about [King Paolo] in the press. The newspapers told his life-story with much imagination and many spicy additions. They even reported, quite erroneously, that in his last Will and Testament he had declared the island a republic." Furthermore, in Geremia and Ragnetti's book (2005), there is no mention of a republic. So the Republic of Tavolara was an invention of the media. But the Kingdom of Tavolara existed to some degree, though whether it had recognition is dubious. Goustien (talk) 02:57, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm Italian, and I don't know a good English, so excuse me for some faults. I visited Tavolara two times, and here the Kingdom is not reputed as a State, but only a turistic curiosity. In Italy, no much people know this, infact, in it.Wikipedia, there isn't an article about the Kingdom. Also the Italian Republic and the Kingdom until 1946 has never recognized Tavolara. In my opinion, it is a micronation, and some foregin Wikipedias consider overly Tavolara: his flag, for example, appeared in the list of pre-unitary Italian States, or in the lists of States year by year; but Tavolara is not one of eight Italian States before 1861, and it was never an Independent Nation. GIULIO, Il Settecentesco. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Il Settecentesco (talk • contribs) 20:40, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Flag

When Hans-Otto Meissner visited in the 1950s, he described a green and white flag.^[1] Is there any further information about this version? Goustien (talk) 04:33, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

^ Meissner, Hans Otto (1963). Unknown Europe. trans. Florence and Isabel McHugh. London and Glasgow: Blackie & Sons. p. 29. The green-and-white flag of Tavolara hung on the wall; around it were photographs of Paolo I wearing his life-saving medals.

Changes in the article

After having unanswered questions for more than a year I brought the article somewhat more in line with reality. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the term unrecognized state as it never was that. There was no time that Sardinia Piedmont or Italy was not in control. Or that the ‘Kingdom’ was in any way organized. As there were no micronations back then I have reintroduced the term imaginary, with a link to the term micronation as it was a micronation ‘avant la letre’. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 18:28, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:53, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Meissner, Hans Otto (1963). Unknown Europe. trans. Florence and Isabel McHugh. London and Glasgow: Blackie & Sons. p. 29. The green-and-white flag of Tavolara hung on the wall; around it were photographs of Paolo I wearing his life-saving medals.

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