Talk:Killing of Sonya Massey/Archive 1

Archive 1

Unsourced statement regarding shooter motive

I've removed the following unsourced (and frankly dubious, IMO) statement regarding the shooter's motive. I decided to remove outright rather than place a tag due to the dubious nature of the statement and the potential to spread misinformation. Existing source cited at the end of the sentence did not mention a possible motive. If anyone can find a source, please add it back in.

Statement in question:

Some speculate that his cancer diagnosis was a motive behind the killing, with his lawyer alleging that due to him having cancer, his detention would become a burden on the county because he "requires special medical treatment".
Absentaneous (talk) 11:44, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Grayson incarceration location

The piece of shit is not showing up on the Sangamon County Jail inmate search website (https://sangamonil.gov/departments/s-z/sheriff/inmate-roster)... does anyone know if he has been released or transferred to a different jail? This would be good to add to the article if anyone knows. Praiawart (talk) 01:10, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

However we feel about this case, we do not use language like this on the talk page. Daniel Case (talk) 05:20, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Grayson discharge

It is being reported by multiple sources that he was discharged from the Army for "serious misconduct" but so far (25 July) it is not specified if his discharge was Other Than Honorable. ABC also reported that he plead guilty to two DUIs in 2015 and 2016. MyIP19216811 (talk) 23:38, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Should We Add The Context Of Boiling Water At The Scene?

I'm not trying to say that water was flung at the offices, however there is verifiable proof that boiling water was spilled at some point. In the body cam you can see the hot water hit the ground and steam rises up after the shooting. Can we add this to the incident? The current page seems to imply the officer shot her for no reason. I believe we need to add the context of the boiling water to this article for accuracy. 2601:284:101:80B0:C3C:AF72:E708:79B (talk) 04:14, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

If there are no objections, I will revert the page and return the boiling water context to the article. O see no reason why this detail should be excluded. Again, I am not saying she threw the water, I just believe we need to add that the boiling water was there and is an important detail in this case. 2601:284:101:80B0:C3C:AF72:E708:79B (talk) 04:18, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

If that detail is mentioned by a WP:RS in context, perhaps yes. Otherwise it can be considered original research and should be avoided. - Fuzheado | Talk 16:01, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Get a reliable source that backs up this information. starship.paint (RUN) 13:45, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Vague Intro

The intro doesn't explain why the officers escalate. Sonya said "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus" which, while holding a pot of boiling water, can be perceived as a threat by someone who may not be in the right state of mind. So I think it would be important that's mentioned otherwise it seems as if the officers drew their weapons for no reason. Everything prior to her saying that was cordial. 69.157.66.195 (talk) 01:21, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Them moving back towards the other end of the room, telling her, that they are moving "away from [her] hot steaming water" is the initial escalation. The sight of the white police officers backing away from the small, slender black woman, implying she might harm them with the hot water in her pot, comes across as a racist provocation. Worstbull (talk) 01:56, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

1st amendment free speech. Not a specific or credible threat. Public oaths, even drunkenness, doesn't justify killing. 142.113.140.146 (talk) 06:38, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Mention of the "pot"

CNN correctly said "she goes to the stove to turn off a pot of boiling water" but only the ultimate effect may be that the officers caused Massey to check on the pot of boiling water. In the bodycam video in the CNN source and the primary source on YouTube, there is no utterance of the word "pot". I hear a clear mention of "fire" and an inaudible utterance possibly "this"/"her"/"first" preceded by "maybe one second check on". Then the video in the CNN source shows the officers talking about the water, but there is no proof that they talked about the "pot" before they backed away. 142.113.140.146 (talk) 20:22, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

I live 4 miles from where this happened. This article is being heavily edited and rife with overly simplified information. Can we please get this protected? Zallgire (talk) 12:56, 29 July 2024 (UTC) — Zallgire (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Hi, you can request it on this page. Have a look at WP:PROTECT before you do it.. Waonderer (talk) 13:22, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Multiple sources refer to the vessel as a "pot". We follow reliable sources. WWGB (talk) 13:25, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Whatever, "vessel" or "pot". I still question whether the officers mentioned the vessel using any wording. They only mentioned the fire.

The significance is that the officers' surprise does not make sense if they told Massey to move the pot. The officers only told Massey to turn off the fire. When she did the extra step of picking up the pot, only then did the officers yell "Drop the fucking pot". Again, officers can't justify bringing guns to a boiling water fight, but the story doesn't make sense if the officers mentioned the pot before the shooting. 142.113.140.146 (talk) 15:25, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

IP User Adding Unsourced Info

There appears to be an IP Address user who is adding unsourced information to this article over the last few days with what seems to be their own view that Massey threw boiling water. He has already been reverted by multiple users. Can action please be taken to prevent this user from adding unproductive edits to this article? Barbarbarty (talk) 18:31, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm amazed by people's inability to conduct real research. I guess mainstream media news, which shows the unidentified officer's bodycam, is the only news that counts to these people and regardless of the fact that there were two bodycams activated and Grayson's clearly shows Massey throwing the steaming water at him, which can easily be seen by slowing down his bodycam video to the slowest speed. PoliceActivity uploaded this video on July 22, 2024, which shows Grayson's bodycam at the 10:32 mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2rMB2fYjuY&rco=1 ExistentialBliss (talk) 21:22, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

What’s “amazing” is your repeated refusal to follow Wikipedia guidelines. We do not do original research on Wikipedia. Find a source for your contention or else stop edit warring. Barbarbarty (talk) 23:38, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree to not add info that does not have supporting documentation cited. However, there is someone who is editing and stating that Massey threw a pot that had boiling water toward Grayson without including a proper source that actually says or shows this. Also, Grayson never said she threw the pot at him. Can you please do something to stop this?

Thank you. Lynette777 (talk) 04:45, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

As of this posting, the IP user in question is on a 72-hour block. A. Randomdude0000 (talk) 19:43, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

It could be fairly stated that the much less seen body cam of Grayson (# X60A7941G) and not in the other one obscured at that point by the officer's arms, it could be fairly stated that after Massey drops down out of view behind the counter and the cop comes closer she pops back up with the pot above her head and turned sideways outwardly. This only can be seen for about a second only on that particular cam. It is right after this point she is shot. There also does appear to be water mist at the side of the counter as well as the officer saying that there was water from the pot on the floor near his feet. Central16 (talk) 09:59, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Broken car windows

Reference 11 (CBS story) notes that the car in the driveway had broken windows, but the Wikipedia article does not. This seems like relevant context as it may provide a reason for Massey’s 911 call, and it might have served to reassure the responding officers that Massey was behaving in a logical manner. 2601:14D:4C02:36F0:99F1:C0BA:C083:75D8 (talk) 14:01, 4 August 2024 (UTC)