Talk:Murder of David Amess

theyworkforus.com

The article (and its BBC reference) use "theyworkforus.com". Is this the same as TheyWorkForYou, and therefore a mistake in the original source? MIDI (talk) 12:59, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

There is no such website as theyworkforus.com, it is a domain for sale..com/domain_profile.cfm?d=theyworkforus.com It was undoubtedly TheyWorkForYou here and there is a mistake in the source. Can we find a source that gets it right?--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:39, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Done; this source also uses the URL. BilledMammal (talk) 07:51, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Motives for murder

There were two mentions (one of them somewhat vague) of Syrian airstrikes, but not specifically equated with motive. They sound more like prosecutor's discovery as opposed to confession from the perpetrator himself. Another motive was Amess's membership with the CFI. I've noted both in the background section. CurryCity (talk) 08:56, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

There is a good BBC News article about the background to the case here. "He came out with an audio message essentially saying, 'Strike them wherever you find them,' which is a quote from the Quran." is interesting. This is the Sword Verse and it is a recurring theme for Islamist extremist propaganda. Ali had been reading the propaganda works of Abu Mohammad al-Adnani. The secondary factor was a desire to kill one of the MPs who had voted for the airstrikes on Syria. In this area, Sir David Amess was unlucky, because Ali discovered that it was easy to meet Amess face to face at a constituency surgery.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 10:09, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

I was looking for a piped link for "vote for the airstrikes on Syria". Any suggestions? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:16, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Ali said he wanted to kill an MP, "not just any MP, the ones who voted in those motions to carry out attacks on Muslims in 2014 and 2015."[1] This is covered in American-led intervention in the Syrian civil war or International military intervention against the Islamic State.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 10:26, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Yes, it's tucked away in "International reactions": "On 26 September 2014 Parliament voted 524 to 43 to approve action inside Iraq.". Martinevans123 (talk) 10:41, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Should this article reflect trial accounts of the attack/Ali’s behaviour?

https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Murder_of_David_Amess&diff=prev&oldid=1189927451

The article section paragraph “a man armed with a knife emerged from a group of constituents” appears to reflect the original unfolding media accounts of the day of the murder as memory serves. I paid attention to the trial and have tried to link to witness accounts as well rewriting to describe the attack as it happened and as well how Ali reacted to during the course of events. I felt it was too much to write about the fact he was calling his sister on the phone when he was arrested (as shown in the body cam footage), though someone else can write it. I also changed "legal proceedings" to "trial", swapped "reactions" around and described Ali's horrific behaviour during the attack and after the verdict, as well as Amess' family statement that they felt no elation at the verdict. I do think the Guardian articles could be worth staying and the description of the events that happened could be kept/rewritten to reflect the articles' description of events, though I do think my bad grammar could be fixed. If anyone think it's unneeded/lengthened too much, I can completely understand that, though I think a Consensus should be reached. As this incident affected my family/town in my own way, I can be grateful for anyone else to discuss the version I wrote and see if it’s worth anything considering.

I have linked the various realible sources I can find, that describe the quoted words and talk between Amess and Ali, so if it could be rewritten to reflect these accounts, I suppose it’s a matter of combing through the sources and verifying it. I just didn't want to stir up any more pain and trouble for the Amess family.

92.17.199.182 (talk) 13:09, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello IP 92. Thank you very much for raising the matter here for discussion. Could I suggest that you go ahead and make any minor corrections e.g. to grammar and spelling, or matters of factual accuracy, one at a time? After these have been agreed, you could perhaps then move to making some of your substantive/ strictly changes, one paragraph at a time? That should allow ample opportunity for discussion and agreement, without the need for major reverts. Hope this looks sensible to you. Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:38, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

If anyone thinks that the above revision could be used for any revisions in the future, albeit with better written paragraphs or if they are worth expanding, please feel free to do so, I had long added "further explanation needed" in the last paragraph of the "attack" section; as I am a resident of Southend, I feel that this is better suited to users here, especially as I sadly never knew Amess' name before he died (I guess politics is not my thing and I have autism); regardless of what he was like or what controversies he may have had in life, what happened to him is a terribly sad story. I feel for how much he must have suffered, and certainly for his wife and children. It also helps people to remember there are real families involved, that the man was a people’s relative, their blood, and not just names for amateur sleuths to fuss over. As I mentioned before, I have linked the various reliable sources I can find, that describe the quoted words and talk between Amess and Ali, so if it could be rewritten to reflect these accounts, I suppose it’s a matter of combing through the sources and verifying it. I just didn't want to stir up any more pain and trouble for the Amess family."92.17.198.220 (talk) 15:23, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

I feel it is best for anyone to decide as to whether the article should be expanded upon or left as it is; as I mentioned before, the Amess tragedy affected me in my own way. From images of the man, he looked so friendly (especially from some stories I have heard). Suddenly, after doing my latest edits, I feel miserable, desperately unhappy, as if I had committed an injustice. I truly wish it was October 14, 2021 again and not that awful tomorrow. 92.17.198.220 (talk) 20:00, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello IP 92. You have placed five references supporting the account of the attack, all together, at the end of the first paragraph. Similarly, you have placed five references, after the sentence "He was pronounced dead at 1:13 pm", presumably supporting all three previous sentences. Two questions:

1. Are all of those 10 sources required?
2. If they are required, could they each be located after the text they support?

In the mean time I will try and format all of them to make reading and review easier. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:21, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

References

UK Threat Levels

@Ianmacm: I added that information because this murder was listed as one of the two attacks that caused the increase, along with the hospital bombing. Why do you think that it is not relevant? QuicoleJR (talk) 14:22, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

I think this has WP:10YT and WP:TOPIC problems, because the Liverpool Women's Hospital bombing was nothing to do with the murder of David Amess.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 17:15, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

I can see why you might have added that. If we had an article about "UK Threat Levels", both incidents might well fit there. But these two events were really wholly separate. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:50, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

We actually do: UK Threat Levels. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:44, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Ah good. Then I think that's where it belongs. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:46, 6 March 2024 (UTC)