Talk:Killing of Azelle Rodney

While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard.

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography

Crime and Criminal Biography Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Death Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Law Enforcement Low‑importance

	Law portal This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Law Enforcement. Please Join, Create, and Assess.Law EnforcementWikipedia:WikiProject Law EnforcementTemplate:WikiProject Law EnforcementLaw enforcement
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

London Low‑importance

	London portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject London, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of London on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LondonWikipedia:WikiProject LondonTemplate:WikiProject LondonLondon-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

United Kingdom Low‑importance

	United Kingdom portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject United KingdomUnited Kingdom
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

It is requested that an image or photograph of Killing of Azelle Rodney be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

On 22 January 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from Shooting of Azelle Rodney to Killing of Azelle Rodney. The result of the discussion was moved.

Renaming article

I'd suggest that the article be renamed "Death of Azelle Rodney", in line with similar articles: Death of Mark Duggan, Death of Jean Charles de Menezes, Death of Ian Tomlinson, Death of Harry Stanley, and Death of James Ashley. ARK (talk) 22:55, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done Jim Michael (talk) 02:45, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! ARK (talk) 14:12, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suspected?

The use of the word suspected in this article, especially the lede, is massively NPOV. Dude was guilty as hell.

Is there any sympathy out there for him? A habitual criminal carrying illegal firearms on his way to commit a violent crime whose every action put himself into that situation. Do you give someone like that the benefit of the doubt? He got what he richly deserved. 92.15.52.18 (talk) 11:36, 5 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The 'dispute' re:guns is also very dodgy and unclearly sourced. I don't see any contradiction between 'the guns were loaded and fully operational' and 'two out of three of the guns were loaded and fully operational'. 92.15.61.236 (talk) 10:13, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lead - Unlawful killing

The Public Inquiry conclusion has not been superseded, overturned or otherwise nullified. It still stands.

The Public Inquiry took the place of a coroner's inquest which is tasked with ascertaining cause and manner of death (natural causes, misadventure, unlawful, etc). When cause cannot be ascertained to a reasonable level, an open verdict may be recorded so the matter can be revisited if new information/evidence should later come to light. Inquests do not generally apportion blame (except perhaps in very rare cases of narrative verdicts) they simply attempt to ascertain facts. Otherwise, everytime an inquest found a death unlawful, there'd be no need for a criminal trial and the legal system could have suspects 'go straight to jail-not pass go-not collect £200'.
There's no conflict between the Inquiry conclusion and the murder trial verdict. Murder is a legal term describing a deliberate and usually pre-planned act of an intention to kill. The trial jury found that evidence presented to them didn't support that charge. I doubt there's an actual criminal charge of unlawful killing but every time a suspect is found not guilty of murder or manslaughter, it doesn't overturn or supersede the related inquest verdict. Likewise the Inquiry conclusion has not been overturned nor superseded by the trial verdict.
One of the most noteworthy factors of this police killing is that it was found to be unlawful by an Inquiry. An extremely rare outcome indeed. Then of lesser note and typically, no officer was successfully prosecuted for the crime. That still doesn't alter the important inquiry outcome. There is little doubt that unlawful killing must be mentioned in the lead. That is how Rodney was found to be killed and what the official record still reflects. The article is, after all, about the death of Rodney.
As for potential for libel, this only becomes possible if the lead is edited to include the officer's name and associates it with the Inquiry conclusion in a way the Inquiry did not. The Inquiry did not conclude that PC Long deliberately killed Rodney. It concluded that Rodney was killed unlawfully and that PC Long could not rationally be believed. These are the nuances of the law which are not too difficult to understand and libel is avoided simply by not reproducing something that is untrue or unverifiable.
The lead can be tidied/smartened up for sure but the radical overhaul earlier today leaving out the crucial unlawful killing conclusion was an edit too far.Selector99 (talk) 15:00, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Death of Azelle Rodney. Please take a moment to review my edit. You may add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:

Attempted to fix sourcing for http://azellerodneyinquiry.independent.gov.uk/docs/AGs_undertaking.pdf
Attempted to fix sourcing for http://azellerodneyinquiry.independent.gov.uk/docs/AGs_undertaking.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 23:35, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Death of Azelle Rodney. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150722105213/http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.com/pa/ld200910/ldhansrd/text/100330-wms0006.htm to http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.com/pa/ld200910/ldhansrd/text/100330-wms0006.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:20, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Death of James Ashley which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 08:16, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Shooting of Andy Lopez which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:50, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]